Powers & Abilities Gear 4th = king of hell and ifrit jambe

[Sir Yasheen]

Oh, if you're referring to the invisible & black Hardening, both are the same, just pretimeskip posttimeskip difference.

Not about the looks, but about how many/much a character exerts to attain that mode.
- Sanji always have CoA, he exerts Exo, then attain Ifrit.
- Luffy always have the DF, he exerts CoA, then attain G4.
Both only use 1 new element to reach G4/Ifrit, whereas Zoro requires 2 elements (the smokes & ACoC which he previously don't have)

This is based on that volume cover where Zoro & Sanji shows their power, not the inconsistency / plot-based techniques in various scenes.

Is argue Sanji uses two new elements for Ifrit:
The exoskeleton
Blue flame

Sanji is able to use normal Diable Jambe with the exoskeleton, but to activate Ifrit Jambe he needs to exert significantly hotter fire.

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

I believe he'll always only use it to end the fight. Dont think we'll see him spam it really.

I think the other way. I think it’ll be used as a means of creating openings mid fight, and we’ll see individuals adapt to it. It doesn’t feel like a trump card imo but again that’s just my opinion.

 

[Albino 👑]

Show me someone mentioning they can see the hardening?

Vergo becomes black when using full body haki
Zoro’s swords become black when using hardening

So yes people see haki

 

[Borasey79]

Vergo becomes black when using full body haki
Zoro’s swords become black when using hardening

So yes people see haki

 

[RoronoaZorro]

It’s not really a last resort at least that’s not how he used it against Queen.

He used it initially before he used Hells Memories and created a big opening for him to land a good hit.

He used it for a prolonged time later cause he needed time to plan because he couldn’t sense Queen so it would be safest if Queen couldn’t sense him either. The prolonged use isn’t a necessity I feel like the main use will be how he used it initially.

I believe he'll always only use it to end the fight. Dont think we'll see him spam it really.

Yeah, it's not a last resort thing.

In fact it's actually just a different technique altogether, as in, we should see them as different thing. So we can't tie those together.

This is because :
- all Ifrit so far isn't done in ultraspeed, some Ifrit attacks are even slow
- the ultraspeed can happen without him activating IJ

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Vergo becomes black when using full body haki
Zoro’s swords become black when using hardening

So yes people see haki

So you have no proof that anyone can see haki? Especially none that counter the multiple times where were shown and told people can’t?

Yeah that’s about what I expected.

 

[Albino 👑]

Oh, if you're referring to the invisible & black Hardening, both are the same, just pretimeskip posttimeskip difference.

Not about the looks, but about how many/much a character exerts to attain that mode.
- Sanji always have CoA, he exerts Exo, then attain Ifrit.
- Luffy always have the DF, he exerts CoA, then attain G4.
Both only use 1 new element to reach G4/Ifrit, whereas Zoro requires 2 elements (the smokes & ACoC which he previously don't have)

This is based on that volume cover where Zoro & Sanji shows their power, not the inconsistency / plot-based techniques in various scenes.

Luffy doesn’t need to use hardening to use armament. We’ve seen him touch and hurt logia without it
Zoro isn’t always hardening his swords and has been using armament since pre timeskip

I agree that all 3 luffy, zoro, and sanji are likely using haki most the time while fighting especially armament but hardening is obviously a level above normal invisible armament

1. Ifrit jambe requires sanji to use armament haki in conjunction with his exoskeleton
2. King of hell requires zoro to use armament haki in conjunction with his sword
3. Gear forth requires luffy to use armament haki in conjunction with his devil fruit

All 3 forms/states require armament haki

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

So you have no proof that anyone can see haki? Especially none that counter the multiple times where were shown and told people can’t?

Yeah that’s about what I expected.

???
Zoro’s swords turn black when using hardening

There’s a difference between using invisible and hardening armament. Luffy and zoro have shown both

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Luffy doesn’t need to use hardening to use armament. We’ve seen him touch and hurt logia without it
Zoro isn’t always hardening his swords and has been using armament since pre timeskip

I agree that all 3 luffy, zoro, and sanji are likely using haki most the time while fighting especially armament but hardening is obviously a level above normal invisible armament

1. Ifrit jambe requires sanji to use armament haki in conjunction with his exoskeleton
2. King of hell requires zoro to use armament haki in conjunction with his sword
3. Gear forth requires luffy to use armament haki in conjunction with his devil fruit

All 3 forms/states require armament haki

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

???
Zoro’s swords turn black when using hardening

There’s a difference between using invisible and hardening armament. Luffy and zoro have shown both

There’s canonically no difference except for stylistic choice. We’ve seen that outright when Oda showed the same scene one with Black CoA and one without. Combine this with Oda saying CoA is invisible. We know it’s invisible.

Or do you think Charlotte Raisin Haki >> Marco the phoenix’s or Kaidos?

 

[RoronoaZorro]

Is argue Sanji uses two new elements for Ifrit:
The exoskeleton
Blue flame

Sanji is able to use normal Diable Jambe with the exoskeleton, but to activate Ifrit Jambe he needs to exert significantly hotter fire.

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

I think the other way. I think it’ll be used as a means of creating openings mid fight, and we’ll see individuals adapt to it. It doesn’t feel like a trump card imo but again that’s just my opinion.

Nah, the blue flame is Ifrit. Not x + blue flame = Ifrit.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Nah, the blue flame is Ifrit. Not x + blue flame = Ifrit.

The blue flame is not Ifrit, the blue flame plus exoskeleton is the Ifrit as without exoskeleton the AP would be weakened.

 

[RoronoaZorro]

Luffy doesn’t need to use hardening to use armament. We’ve seen him touch and hurt logia without it
Zoro isn’t always hardening his swords and has been using armament since pre timeskip

I agree that all 3 luffy, zoro, and sanji are likely using haki most the time while fighting especially armament but hardening is obviously a level above normal invisible armament

1. Ifrit jambe requires sanji to use armament haki in conjunction with his exoskeleton
2. King of hell requires zoro to use armament haki in conjunction with his sword
3. Gear forth requires luffy to use armament haki in conjunction with his devil fruit

All 3 forms/states require armament haki

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

???
Zoro’s swords turn black when using hardening

There’s a difference between using invisible and hardening armament. Luffy and zoro have shown both

Invisible & Black Hardening is the same.
The next level is Imbuement, like how Zoro blackened his swords.
Then the barrier thing, often called Emission.
Then Internal Destruction.

The concept is pretty basic : flowing out

1. You flow Haki into your own body, Hardening
2. You flow Haki into something you touch, but not part of your body, Imbuement
3. You flow Haki into your surrounding, Barrier
4. You flow Haki into the target

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

The blue flame is not Ifrit, the blue flame plus exoskeleton is the Ifrit as without exoskeleton the AP would be weakened.

The blue flame can't happen without Exoskeleton (ch 1034 page 14).

So "blue flame" already has Exoskeleton as part of it.

So there is no such thing as "blue flame" + "exoskeleton".

 

[Albino 👑]

There’s canonically no difference except for stylistic choice. We’ve seen that outright when Oda showed the same scene one with Black CoA and one without. Combine this with Oda saying CoA is invisible. We know it’s invisible.

Or do you think Charlotte Raisin Haki >> Marco the phoenix’s or Kaidos?

No hardening is tougher than normal invisible armament. There are different armament skills invisible and visible. Basic armament is invisible

We’ve seen weapons users clad their weapons in black hardening multiple times. Yes hardening makes things black

No
Raisins hardening > his basic armament same with everyone else. Marigold’s barrier armament isn’t stronger than idk vergo’s basic haki

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

Invisible & Black Hardening is the same.
The next level is Imbuement, like how Zoro blackened his swords.
Then the barrier thing, often called Emission.
Then Internal Destruction.

The concept is pretty basic : flowing out

1. You flow Haki into your own body, Hardening
2. You flow Haki into something you touch, but not part of your body, Imbuement
3. You flow Haki into your surrounding, Barrier
4. You flow Haki into the target

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

The blue flame can't happen without Exoskeleton (ch 1034 page 14).

So "blue flame" already has Exoskeleton as part of it.

So there is no such thing as "blue flame" + "exoskeleton".

Weapon users can use haki through their weapons without hardening them. We’ve seen it with zoro, Tashigi, the scabbards, and multiple other times

Also no using haki on your weapon is the same level as barrier haki just different application
Zoro was using armament haki pre timeskip

 

[Sir Yasheen]

No hardening is tougher than normal invisible armament. There are different armament skills invisible and visible. Basic armament is invisible

We’ve seen weapons users clad their weapons in black hardening multiple times. Yes hardening makes things black

No
Raisins hardening > his basic armament same with everyone else. Marigold’s barrier armament isn’t stronger than idk vergo’s basic haki

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

Weapon users can use haki through their weapons without hardening them. We’ve seen it with zoro, Tashigi, the scabbards, and multiple other times

Also no using haki on your weapon is the same level as barrier haki just different application
Zoro was using armament haki pre timeskip

Bro posted a page of another CoA master calling it an invisible power trying to prove that CoA is visible.

 

[Albino 👑]

Bro posted a page of another CoA master calling it an invisible power trying to prove that CoA is visible.

Yes because barrier haki is invisible
Zoro was using haki to cut steal pre timeskip
Zoro learned about hardening during the timeskip
Hardening makes Zoro’s blades black

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Invisible & Black Hardening is the same.
The next level is Imbuement, like how Zoro blackened his swords.
Then the barrier thing, often called Emission.
Then Internal Destruction.

The concept is pretty basic : flowing out

1. You flow Haki into your own body, Hardening
2. You flow Haki into something you touch, but not part of your body, Imbuement
3. You flow Haki into your surrounding, Barrier
4. You flow Haki into the target

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

The blue flame can't happen without Exoskeleton (ch 1034 page 14).

So "blue flame" already has Exoskeleton as part of it.

So there is no such thing as "blue flame" + "exoskeleton".

The blue flame wasn’t a product of the exoskeleton. Sanji using exoskeleton doesn’t automatically boost Sanjis fire heat, it’s something he instead adds.

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

Yes because barrier haki is invisible
Zoro was using haki to cut steal pre timeskip
Zoro learned about hardening during the timeskip
Hardening makes Zoro’s blades black

All haki is invisible. You can see literally the next page is his hand is black and he still calls haki invisible.

 

[Albino 👑]

The blue flame wasn’t a product of the exoskeleton. Sanji using exoskeleton doesn’t automatically boost Sanjis fire heat, it’s something he instead adds.

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2024

All haki is invisible. You can see literally the next page is his hand is black and he still calls haki invisible.

Are zoro’s swords not black when he clads them in haki?

The basic applications of armament are invisible. Including basic barrier haki
Hardening makes them black

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Are zoro’s swords not black when he clads them in haki?

The basic applications of armament are invisible. Including basic barrier haki
Hardening makes them black

So your only argument is Odas stylistic choice?

You literally posted a panel of someone calling haki invisible then immediately showing his CoA as black.

Hardening is just CoA lmao

 

[IsaziSempi]

Gear 4th can split an island in half.

 

[Albino 👑]

So your only argument is Odas stylistic choice?

You literally posted a panel of someone calling haki invisible then immediately showing his CoA as black.

Hardening is just CoA lmao

Are zoro’s swords not black when using hardening? We’re the scabbards swords not black when they used their final attack on kaido?

Yes because basic armament haki is invisible…… hardening isn’t

?

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Are zoro’s swords not black when using hardening? We’re the scabbards swords not black when they used their final attack on kaido?

Yes because basic armament haki is invisible…… hardening isn’t

?

They just look like swords they turn black to us cause it’s stylistic.

And the scabbards cut through Kaido with non blackened blades what are you even trying to say?

And it’s because Haki = invisible. Theres a reason not a single person in verse ever says otherwise. You’re just factually wrong. Hell you posted someone saying it’s invisible then having his hand turn black when using haki.

 

[PeronaNerona]

The blue flame is not Ifrit, the blue flame plus exoskeleton is the Ifrit as without exoskeleton the AP would be weakened.

That's not how it works.

Ifrit is only made possible because of how much of a tank Sanji becomes with the combination of CoA + exoskeleton(no such thing as blue flames without exoskeleton and CoA).