Versus Battle Real life Pirate Captains vs Real life Samurai

[Erkan12]

I guess with pistols advantage, strongest pirate captains would probably win vs the strongest samurai, what if they engage in close combat?

Edit adding the info for some who are spreading misinformation about Pirate Captains:

-Time in the video: 4:38-

''Captain was chosen based on his abilities as a fighter, sailor and leader.''

Sources of the video above:
Modern sources
Piratical Schemes and Contracts - E.T Fox
The Buccaneer's Realm - Benerson Little
The Republic of Pirates - Colin Woodard
Dictionary of Pirate Biography - Baylus C. Brooks
Pirates in their Own Words - E.T Fox

Real life Pirate Captain Edward Teach vs Royal Navy Lieutenant:

''Maynard and Teach fired their flintlocks at each other. Maynard managed to hit Teach, while Teach missed. Both then threw their flintlocks away and drew their cutlasses. Teach broke Maynard's cutlass at the hilt. Against superior training and a slight advantage in numbers, the pirates were pushed back toward the bow, allowing the Jane's crew to surround Maynard and Teach, who was by then completely isolated.[90]

Teach pressed onward and was about to deliver a killing blow, but was slashed across the neck by one of Maynard's men. This redirected Teach's cutlass to strike Maynard's knuckles instead of killing him. Badly wounded, Teach was then attacked and killed by several more of Maynard's crew.''

Despite the Navy Lieutenant shooting Edward Teach at the beginning, the Pirate Captain was still beating the Navy Lieutenant in 1 v 1 combat, Navy Lieutenant was saved by his men help in 3 v 1.

 

[Owl Ki]

I would put my money on samurai winning more often than not. Samurai are from a noble military caste where individuals are trained from a young age in martial ability and warfare. Pirates are essentially naval thugs that are much more interested in intimidating submissive merchants into parting with their cargo than in actually fighting.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Knowledge, numbers, location, time period Theyre from etc matters a lot.

I’d favor pirates in smaller confrontations and samurai in larger.

 

[ClovenHoofClown]

samurai = physically stronger and more skilled, but pirates have guns so it doesnt matter

 

[Owl Ki]

samurai = physically stronger and more skilled, but pirates have guns so it doesnt matter

Samurai possessed and were trained in the use of guns.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hōjutsu
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_(gun)

The "guns" in this matchup are likely pretty irrelevant anyway since the thread seems to be talking about 1v1 fights between pirates and samurai, while the gunpowder weaponry both used was pretty inaccurate against individual fighters. If anything, the samurai is going to have the ranged advantage since he'll be experienced with a bow which he can be accurate with while the pirate at best is going to have a flintlock pistol, which is going to miss more than it hits.

 

[ClovenHoofClown]

Samurai possessed and were trained in the use of guns.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hōjutsu
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_(gun)

The "guns" in this matchup are likely pretty irrelevant anyway since the thread seems to be talking about 1v1 fights between pirates and samurai, while the gunpowder weaponry both used was pretty inaccurate against individual fighters. If anything, the samurai is going to have the ranged advantage since he'll be experienced with a bow which he can be accurate with while the pirate at best is going to have a flintlock pistol, which is going to miss more than it hits.

i will concede that i dont know fucking shit lol

Post automatically merged: Apr 27, 2024

i knew they had guns, but not that early and that they wouldve been that commonplace

 

[Bullet]

Samurai are trained soldiers and pirates are just random criminals
If 12 American soldiers attack a gang with 12 members who are you taking?
if it's captain or strongest pirate i think they could take it possibly
But crew vs samurai army it's not even close

 

[Yoho]

Blacksails is my shit

Pirates win they're much better equipped being from a time with better armor and stronger weaponry

It's close 1v1 Samurai might win if they force a sword fight

But a crew of pirates vs a group of Samurai

Pirates slaughter

Especially the stronger pirates who have literal warships and some crews can have hundreds maybe even thousands of men

Samurai are the feudal era equivalent of a security guard

It's rare for a daimyo to have more than a handful of retainers which is what a Samurai was

 

[Erkan12]

. Pirates are essentially naval thugs that are much more interested in intimidating submissive merchants into parting with their cargo than in actually fighting.

and pirates are just random criminals

I specifically said 'strongest pirate captains' to avoid this nonsense and we still have it.

Its true average pirate is weaker than average trained soldier or samurai due them sometimes being random criminals. But pirate captains are entirely different case.

The only thing that keeps Pirate Captains as the captain of those wild criminals is their fighting power, its not military where they need to listen orders based on rank and respect.

If another criminal pirate think they are stronger than their captain they challenge them in 1 v 1 combat for the leadership. Thats the main difference, pirate captains should be the strongest fighter in a pirate ship while in military, thats not the case because trained soldiers listens orders based on rank and respect not strength. Thats why I specifically said pirate captains.

Sometimes pirates are random criminals but sometimes they are not. There are many cases where former trained soldiers turning into pirates, that also debunks this claim.

Also the conditions to survive in the sea is much more difficult, there aren't just threats from fighting, also the threats thats the sea such as the weather and storms, that toughens the pirates a lot.

Golden age of piracy, most of them were formerly privateers, naval mercenaries thats used in the war between Spain and England. Thats why during Golden age of piracy, those pirates were more effective because they were former trained soldiers and mercenaries as well.

 

[zenox]

Samurais were trained to protect royals
They were given guns and arrows too ( the katanas were just for show )

whereas with pirate captains , its simply the strongest thug around

real life is way different than what fiction depicts
A trained soldier will beat the living shit out of a cartel or a mafia boss

and if we are talkin abt the strongest pirates being trained in combat
Samurais still won nonetheless since fighting is their life

 

[Yoho]

A trained soldier will beat the living shit out of a cartel or a mafia boss

A cartel or mafia boss can be trained just as well or better than a trained Soldier

 

[NikaInParis]

The captain of a pirate vessel is in no way necessarily the strongest guy on his ship, what kind of irl powerscaling is this lmaoo

It's not like they would beat every crew member into submission.
And a gunshot from a cabinboy would kill even the most notorious pirate captain.

The only thing that would put a pirate captain on the same level as a trained soldier (which the samurai were generally) is the fact that the pirate could have a more diverse fighting experience and thus outmanuever/outsmart the samurai in some fashion.

 

[zenox]

A cartel or mafia boss can be trained just as well or better than a trained Soldier

are u trying to tell me some thugs can train an individual better than the military ?

ofc there might be some exceptions but if we are talking abt the peak of these 2 different groups
a navy seal will destroy even the strongest of thugs

 

[Erkan12]

The captain of a pirate vessel is in no way necessarily the strongest guy on his ship, what kind of irl powerscaling is this lmaoo

It's not like they would beat every crew member into submission.
And a gunshot from a cabinboy would kill even the most notorious pirate captain.

The only thing that would put a pirate captain on the same level as a trained soldier (which the samurai were generally) is the fact that the pirate could have a more diverse fighting experience and thus outmanuever/outsmart the samurai in some fashion.

There are some exceptions where popular guy takes over due to taking more votes in the crew, but those guys usually mess things up in critical moments during the battles, so its usually preffered that it should be the strongest guy.

 

[Yoho]

are u trying to tell me some thugs can train an individual better than the military ?

ofc there might be some exceptions but if we are talking abt the peak of these 2 different groups
a navy seal will destroy even the strongest of thugs

That thug could be a former navy seal or taken Years of martial arts he might be a 3rd degree black belt in muay Thai

On average yes a trained soldier can beat and untrained thug but can't judge a person by their occupation a thug can easily be trained and more experienced

 

[NikaInParis]

There are some exceptions where popular guy takes over due to taking more votes in the crew, but those guys usually mess things up in critical moments during the battles, so its usually preffered that it should be the strongest guy.

I don't think a TV show should be a source for any arguments
An example of not-strongest people being captains were privateers and navy officers that turned rogue and started pirating (iirc Francis Drake was one such example). His navy experience and fact that he captained/owned the ship made him the captain, not his brawn

 

[Owl Ki]

The only thing that keeps Pirate Captains as the captain of those wild criminals is their fighting power, its not military where they need to listen orders based on rank and respect.

If another criminal pirate think they are stronger than their captain they challenge them in 1 v 1 combat for the leadership. Thats the main difference, pirate captains should be the strongest fighter in a pirate ship while in military, thats not the case because trained soldiers listens orders based on rank and respect not strength. Thats why I specifically said pirate captains.

What Hollywood history does to a sassenach. Lol. I have to focus on this part of the post specifically because it is so utterly egregious a claim.

Pirates ruled their crews through two metrics. Intimidation and success in acquiring riches, the latter being far more important than the former in keeping a crew because intimidation can only go so far if a crew isn't getting any money.

How did Henry Every get his captain position? Did he beat up the former captain 1v1? Nah, he led a mutiny that was possible because the crew weren't getting paid anything and the mutineers voted in favour of him.

Did Black Sam Bellamy get his position by defeating Benjamin Hornigold in a duel? No, Hornigold refused to attack wealthy English ships, his crew got pissed, voted him out and replaced him with Bellamy.

Did Stede Bonnet lose his crew because Blackbeard beat him in a fight? No, Bonnet's leadership failed to capture a wealthy vessel and his crew simply left him to go join the more successful Blackbeard.

Did Calico Jack gain his captain position after defeating Charles Vane in a 1v1 duel? No, after an incident that made the crew think of Vane as being a cowardly captain, Vane was voted out and Jack was voted in to replace him.

Did Edward England lose his captain position due to being defeated in a duel? No, he was voted out and marooned by his disgruntled crew.

No feckin 1v1 duels happened between any of these pirates for the captaincy of the crew. Why would there even be duels? Pirate crews wanted to follow a guy that could make them rich, not beat them up.

Give the average pirate crew a choice between a physically weak dandy that is consistently successful in acquiring loot and a physically robust fighter that can only acquire half the loot of the dandy then that crew is voting for dandy 10/10 times.

Duels. Feckin Hollywood history logic.

 

[NikaInParis]

What Hollywood history does to a sassenach. Lol. I have to focus on this part of the post specifically because it is so utterly egregious a claim.

Pirates ruled their crews through two metrics. Intimidation and success in acquiring riches, the latter being far more important than the former in keeping a crew because intimidation can only go so far if a crew isn't getting any money.

How did Henry Every get his captain position? Did he beat up the former captain 1v1? Nah, he led a mutiny that was possible because the crew weren't getting paid anything and the mutineers voted in favour of him.

Did Black Sam Bellamy get his position by defeating Benjamin Hornigold in a duel? No, Hornigold refused to attack wealthy English ships, his crew got pissed, voted him out and replaced him with Bellamy.

Did Stede Bonnet lose his crew because Blackbeard beat him in a fight? No, Bonnet's leadership failed to capture a wealthy vessel and his crew simply left him to go join the more successful Blackbeard.

Did Calico Jack gain his captain position after defeating Charles Vane in a 1v1 duel? No, after an incident that made the crew think of Vane as being a cowardly captain, Vane was voted out and Jack was voted in to replace him.

Did Edward England lose his captain position due to being defeated in a duel? No, he was voted out and marooned by his disgruntled crew.

No feckin 1v1 duels happened between any of these pirates for the captaincy of the crew. Why would there even be duels? Pirate crews wanted to follow a guy that could make them rich, not beat them up.

Give the average pirate crew a choice between a physically weak dandy that is consistently successful in acquiring loot and a physically robust fighter that can only acquire half the loot of the dandy then that crew is voting for dandy 10/10 times.

Duels. Feckin Hollywood history logic.

Calico Jack's CoC burst is literally part of history books bozo

 

[Owl Ki]

Stop being dramatic and butthurt over simple things lmao.

Thats also explained in that ''hollywood history'' if you watch the show so don't cry about things that butthurt ass don't watch. Jack is also not a good fighter and that happens similar to that becomes captain due to different circumstances, so you don't need to be butthurt like that over this lmao.

''Holywood history'' as well explains they can overthrow the strongest captain, but then they chose the strongest guy as the captain again because he would lead them to winning battles and winning treasures:

Stop throwing works of fiction made for the sole purpose of entertainment at me and give me some actual real life examples of famous pirates acquiring the captaincy of a ship through a duel. This was your original claim. That real life historical pirate captains maintained their leadership role through duels.

Nobody voted for the strongest guy, they voted for what they thought was the most competent leader and by extension, the bloke that would be most successful at making them rich.

"Intimidation and success in acquiring riches'' ? guess what, the best fighter can lead them to win more riches by making them win the battles and fights, its not that difficult to understand you clown lmao.

Charles Vane and Edward Low cultivated an aura of intimidation through barbaric acts of cruelty through liberal use of torture. Not through fighting duels. In fact the entire reason pirates wanted to be considered intimidating was to avoid fighting all together. Fighting equals a chance of dying and dead men can't spend their riches.

Side note, Charles Vane and Edward Low were both ditched by their crews due to lack of success in acquiring loot.

Save your bitch mouth for dumb Ladmiral wank threads, your IQ is the very low irl just like Owl Ki.

Mad smack talk for a bloke using a work of fiction intended as a prequel to Treasure Island to argue about real life pirates. You might as well throw Pirates of the Caribbean in there while you are at it.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

Lerkek being Lerkek, nothing to see here.