Versus Battle Real life Pirate Captains vs Real life Samurai

[Bullet]

Let me see what I've been tagged about.

You: "The only thing that kept a Pirate Captain in charge of his crew was his martial ability in a 1v1 duel!"

Me: "Pirate Captains were not selected by their crew solely on the basis of their duelling abilities, they were selected on their ability to lead their men into acquiring loot. Here are five examples of Pirate Captains that lost/gained captaincies because of their leadership failures leading to lack of loot and being voted out for it, nothing to do with duels. Can you provide a famous example of a Pirate Captain losing his captaincy because of a duel?"

You: "Look! Look! Blackbeard fought a random Royal Navy lieutenant that ambushed his ship and won before getting killed by random nobodies!"

So still no examples of Captaincies being lost and won through duels then like you initially claimed before abandoning said untenable claim? Lol. Also, I have no idea why you are bragging about Maynard's duelling defeat to Teach because outside of being responsible for Blackbeard's demise, the bloke was an absolute nobody. He was not famous for his duelling ability or as an officer nor as some career pirate hunter.

Even the video you posted by a hobbyist YouTuber as "debunking" me only listed fighting (not necessarily duelling) as one of a multitude of metrics, not the "only thing" like you claimed in this post.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ains-vs-real-life-samurai.55910/#post-5351812

Even worse for you, the video states at the 5:53 mark "I have never heard of any candidates duelling for control over a company. That seems to largely be an invention of Howard Pyle (a mid 19th to early 20th century children's novelist) and his famous painting Who shall be Captain."

Congratulations, you posted a video that completely debunks your own point about pirate duels.

While we are on the subject of this video, let us look at some of the sources it uses because it is clear that you haven't bothered to do so.

At least two of the sources, The Buccaneer's Realm by Benerson Little and The Republic of Pirates by Colin Woodard both make an absolute hard distinction between the "Pirates" at the tail end of the Golden Age of Piracy and the "Buccaneers" at the beginning and middle of the period though they do so for different reasons.

Colin Woodard seems to only consider the period from 1715 to 1725 to be the actual Golden Age of Piracy, so he considers the Buccaneering Age to be completely separate altogether. He also considers pirates to only be pirates if they started out as being regarded as criminals by all nations, so he excludes buccaneers and privateers from being considered pirates at all and considers them to be naval mercenaries. He even excludes William Kidd as he was a privateer that turned pirate "accidentally".

Spoiler: Colin Woodard.

If you think that I've been slanderous towards your favourite boy Teach, Benerson Little is far more dismissive and savage by comparison as he refers to Blackbeard's generation of pirates as the "bastard progeny" of the Buccaneers and lumps together Blackbeard (your only example so far of a "strong" captain) with Calico Jack, a pirate captain that you've been dismissive of in this thread due to his portrayal in a TV series.

Spoiler: Benerson Little.

All this is to say that you have completely fucked over the claims in your initial post about "ex-military pirates" to attempt prove why 18th century pirate captains should be considered stronger than samurai in a duel by using sources that make absolute hard distinctions. One source claims that Blackbeard's generation were essentially a gaggle of pussies while the other one claims that buccaneers/privateers were too formally recognised to be true pirates.

So congratulations, between the contents of the video and the sources said video uses, you have managed to undermine or flat out debunk every single one of the arguments you made on Post #9 of this thread.

P.S. it is funny to go on about the duelling ability of pirate captains when the measure of success that pirate captains were judged by was how much loot and ships they acquired while the samurai actually had a honorary title given to an exceptional, once in a lifetime swordsman of legendary skill in the Kensei or Sword Saint. These blokes (such as Miyamoto Musashi and Tsukahara Bokuden) were actual dedicated duellists. Below the sword saints were still highly regarded sword masters and duellists such as Ito Ittosai Kagehisa and Kamiizumi Nobutsuna. It is far easier to pin down samurai of great duelling ability than pirate captains of notable duelling ability because the former actually had duelling matches while the success of the latter wasn't judged on duelling ability at all.

@zenox didn't compare the Blackbeard Pirates to Hitler at all and the fact that you think he did just proves why any accusations of illiteracy that you throw at others should only be taken as hilariously ironic.

close the thread and remind me to not go against @Owl Ki in any debate.

 

[Erkan12]

close the thread and remind me to not go against @Owl Ki in any debate.

Right after I debunked you clowns badly with examples from Blackbeard and Redbeard?

Samurai are trained soldiers and pirates are just random criminals

Lets see the ''random criminals'':

Barbarossa ''Redbeard'':

Constantly fighting against the best Spanish soldiers, against the best Spanish and Hospitaller Knights, and conquering the Spanish territories in the Mediterranean.

He and his brother with much less soldiers (half the number of Spanish) under their command captured a Spanish Warship which had 380 Spanish soldiers and 60 Spanish knights.

Before you claim Redbeard wasn't on the front lines of the battle, he definitely was, later he even lost his arm 7 years later during another battle vs the Spaniards while fighting in front lines.

It doesn't sound like ''naval thugs that are much more interested in intimidating submissive merchants into parting with their cargo than in actually fighting. '' right? Like you initially claimed in your first post in this thread.

 

[zenox]

I have never seen a bashing this crazy in this forum
Erkek is known to get thrown around but the poor guy is just getting bullied now

his lack of reading comprehension makes me thing he has a disability too

 

[Owl Ki]

The fact that you are being this dishonest is 'concerning'.

The clown's intent for using Hitler as an example here is clear.

zenox: "Using a real life historical person to hype up a fictitious character is stupid."

You: "He compared a real person to a real person!!!!!"

You have zero rights to call anybody a clown. Lol.

Another wall of text says nothing much.

True it also mentions being sailor and leader, which I also added in the quote. Still, first thing it mentions ''fighter'' then says sailor and leader.

Where did I cut the sentences? You are lying again lmao.

This is the quote:

Where exactly I cut the sentence? Lmao.

"Where did I cut the sentence in the post you quoted!?!?"

*Proceeds to quote an entirely different post from the one I quoted*

Is it even possible for you to not be disingenuous for just 5 minutes? Lel.

You are also forgetting that the Pirates I mention aren't just doing sword duels like the Samurai, they constantly need to defend themselves from rifles or pistols shots during the battles as well.

Thats why I pointed the initial pistols shooting exchange between Pirate Captain Edward Teach and the Navy Lieutenant before the sword battle.

So against the Samurai, the Pirate captains will have their pistol during the initial exchange.

Samurai need to take the initial pistol shot, dodge the shot if he could, then continue to fight in this match-up.

As I said before, the gunpowder weaponry typically associated with both pirates and samurai were garbage in their accuracy.

Samurai possessed and were trained in the use of guns.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hōjutsu
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_(gun)

The "guns" in this matchup are likely pretty irrelevant anyway since the thread seems to be talking about 1v1 fights between pirates and samurai, while the gunpowder weaponry both used was pretty inaccurate against individual fighters. If anything, the samurai is going to have the ranged advantage since he'll be experienced with a bow which he can be accurate with while the pirate at best is going to have a flintlock pistol, which is going to miss more than it hits.

Early 18th century pistols have near zero accuracy and would be muzzleloading, smoothbore firearms with no rifling. The samurai could be standing still 5 metres away and a shot would still miss spectacularly. It is pure rng as to whether the shot will even hit the target, let alone hit the target where the pirate actually aimed.

In short, the pistols are practically a non-factor.

Lmao, the duels aren't the only thing that determines the fighting ability of a fighter.

Barbarossa ''Redbeard'':

Constantly fighting against the best Spanish soldiers, against the best Spanish and Hospitaller Knights, and conquering the Spanish territories in the Mediterranean.

He and his brother with much less soldiers (half the number of Spanish) under their command captured a Spanish Warship which had 380 Spanish soldiers and 60 Spanish knights.

Before you claim Redbeard wasn't on the front lines of the battle, he definitely was, later he even lost his arm 7 years later during another battle vs the Spaniards while fighting in front lines.

1) The ability to lead men in battle is completely irrelevant in a 1v1 duel scenario like the one that you made in your opening post. So all this is meaningless waffle. It is like putting Napoleon Bonaparte up against Mike Tyson in a boxing ring and claiming the Frenchman would win because of his skill as a General. It is pea brain thinking.

2) Why in Sod's Law have you suddenly brought up an Ottoman privateer that died 170 years before the start of Blackbeard's career? He is completely irrelevant to the late Golden Age of Piracy that you have been going on about.

Also, if we are now going to use examples of criminal pirates well outside of the Golden Age of Piracy but within a 200 year limit of it then Zheng Yi Sao completely screws over your argument regarding how pirate captains "must" be the best fighter on their crew for whatever arbitrary reason that you made up.

Zheng Yi Sao commanded the Guangdong Pirate Confederation, a pirate fleet that is calculated to have consisted of around 400 ships and a force between 40,000-60,000 men strong. At the time of their surrender, Zheng Yi Sao apparently personally commanded a fleet of 24 ships and 1400 pirates. Zheng Yi Sao is regarded as one of the most successful pirates in all of human history.

She was also a middle aged, Chinese widow of no known combat ability.

Are you now going to claim that she was the strongest fighter or duellist amongst the thousands of men that she commanded?

It doesn't sound like ''naval thugs that are much more interested in intimidating submissive merchants into parting with their cargo than in actually fighting. '' right? Like you initially claimed in your first post in this thread.

Barbarossa is way outside of the Golden Age of Piracy and was a privateer, so he wouldn't count as a criminal pirate according to any of the sources you used.

Naval thugs intimidating submissive merchants sounds exactly like what Benerson Little had in mind when he referred to your beloved Blackbeard and his ilk as "bastard progeny". Don't like it, go take it up with the authors of your sources.

 

[Krusher1357]

A military vs some rapscallions? What a joke. Samurai neg unless the Pirate gets the most accurate flintlock to ever exist

 

[Jailer]

Real life guns vs swords? Guns negs, this isn't anime where they can deflect that shit.

Tho tbf I am not sure how available it was among pirates

 

[zenox]

zenox: "Using a real life historical person to hype up a fictitious character is stupid."

You: "He compared a real person to a real person!!!!!"

You have zero rights to call anybody a clown. Lol.

"Where did I cut the sentence in the post you quoted!?!?"

*Proceeds to quote an entirely different post from the one I quoted*

Is it even possible for you to not be disingenuous for just 5 minutes? Lel.

As I said before, the gunpowder weaponry typically associated with both pirates and samurai were garbage in their accuracy.

Early 18th century pistols have near zero accuracy and would be muzzleloading, smoothbore firearms with no rifling. The samurai could be standing still 5 metres away and a shot would still miss spectacularly. It is pure rng as to whether the shot will even hit the target, let alone hit the target where the pirate actually aimed.

In short, the pistols are practically a non-factor.

1) The ability to lead men in battle is completely irrelevant in a 1v1 duel scenario like the one that you made in your opening post. So all this is meaningless waffle. It is like putting Napoleon Bonaparte up against Mike Tyson in a boxing ring and claiming the Frenchman would win because of his skill as a General. It is pea brain thinking.

2) Why in Sod's Law have you suddenly brought up an Ottoman privateer that died 170 years before the start of Blackbeard's career? He is completely irrelevant to the late Golden Age of Piracy that you have been going on about.

Also, if we are now going to use examples of criminal pirates well outside of the Golden Age of Piracy but within a 200 year limit of it then Zheng Yi Sao completely screws over your argument regarding how pirate captains "must" be the best fighter on their crew for whatever arbitrary reason that you made up.

Zheng Yi Sao commanded the Guangdong Pirate Confederation, a pirate fleet that is calculated to have consisted of around 400 ships and a force between 40,000-60,000 men strong. At the time of their surrender, Zheng Yi Sao apparently personally commanded a fleet of 24 ships and 1400 pirates. Zheng Yi Sao is regarded as one of the most successful pirates in all of human history.

She was also a middle aged, Chinese widow of no known combat ability.

Are you now going to claim that she was the strongest fighter or duellist amongst the thousands of men that she commanded?

Barbarossa is way outside of the Golden Age of Piracy and was a privateer, so he wouldn't count as a criminal pirate according to any of the sources you used.

Naval thugs intimidating submissive merchants sounds exactly like what Benerson Little had in mind when he referred to your beloved Blackbeard and his ilk as "bastard progeny". Don't like it, go take it up with the authors of your sources.

I am amazed to see how u are still arguing with him
I would have given up till now
Arguing with that dumbass is like arguing to a brick wall

He will make his own points , then debunk it and then clown on u when u never even made a point
And he also debunks his own stuff and the changing of goalposts is also very consistent

This guy has been talking in forums for like 10 years
I guess he actually got brain damage due to that and now he simply repeats stuff like an AI bot

 

[Erkan12]

I have never seen a bashing this crazy in this forum
Erkek is known to get thrown around but the poor guy is just getting bullied now

his lack of reading comprehension makes me thing he has a disability too

ZKKclown Lenox started to cry again after I debunked the guy that he was licking his boots, don't cry bitch, it happens when you don't have the brain to argue and the guy you are relying is getting debunked badly
by me.

Barbarossa is way outside of the Golden Age of Piracy and was a privateer, so he wouldn't count as a criminal pirate according to any of the sources you used.

Naval thugs intimidating submissive merchants sounds exactly like what Benerson Little had in mind when he referred to your beloved Blackbeard and his ilk as "bastard progeny". Don't like it, go take it up with the authors of your sources.

Your post: ''naval thugs that are much more interested in intimidating submissive merchants into parting with their cargo than in actually fighting.''

Now you got debunked as I proved the Pirate Redbeard was fighting the Spanish Navy, instead of admitting you are wrong, you chose to cry like a clown.

Learn what they were called;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

Barbary Pirates

Title: King of Pirates, Barbarossa

Too bad, it looks you got debunked again.

LMAO, when exactly I said the thread is limited with ''criminals pirate and golden age of piracy''?

I never said its limited.

This is a clown behaviour for sure, acting like if I said there is a time period limit for this thread just because you got debunked.

But I understand you are desperate now so you lie again.

.
1) The ability to lead men in battle is completely irrelevant in a 1v1 duel scenario like the one that you made in your opening post. So all this is meaningless waffle. It is like putting Napoleon Bonaparte up against Mike Tyson in a boxing ring and claiming the Frenchman would win because of his skill as a General. It is pea brain thinking.
.

Napoleon was from a noble family not born into the harsh pirate life, he become an artillery commander not fighting close quarter or in the front lines vs Navy or other Pirates in close quarters on the deck of the ships LOL. I don't see why you cry about this like putting him against Mike in boxing? Wtf are you talking about? Lmao.

Since I know you are a crybaby and also lying when you got butthurt, I specifically said Pirate Redbeard was fighting in the front lines vs the best Spanish soldiers of his time, even that after some time he was injured in one of the close quarter battles vs the Spain Navy. But hey, if you gonna cry now I won't stop you.

Again, should I remind you the quote that made you cry?

''Pirate captain was chosen based on his abilities as a fighter, sailor and leader.''

I guess the Pirate Redbeard wasn't chosen as captain based on his ability as a fighter while fighting the Navy because it would debunk your previous claims?

.
2) Why in Sod's Law have you suddenly brought up an Ottoman privateer that died 170 years before the start of Blackbeard's career? He is completely irrelevant to the late Golden Age of Piracy that you have been going on about.
.

Do you see any time era limit to the ''strongest fighters from pirate captains'' in this thread?

This clown suddenly start complaining about the ''imaginary rules'' of this thread after getting destroyed

Show me when exactly I said you can only use pirate captains from a specific time like 1700s?

I never said you can use Samurai from a certain timeline as well, but suddenly this clown here act like I said you can use pirates from certain timeline just because he got debunked after asking who else besides Blackbeard.

.
Also, if we are now going to use examples of criminal pirates well outside of the Golden Age of Piracy but within a 200 year limit of it then Zheng Yi Sao completely screws over your argument regarding how pirate captains "must" be the best fighter on their crew for whatever arbitrary reason that you made up.

Zheng Yi Sao commanded the Guangdong Pirate Confederation, a pirate fleet that is calculated to have consisted of around 400 ships and a force between 40,000-60,000 men strong. At the time of their surrender, Zheng Yi Sao apparently personally commanded a fleet of 24 ships and 1400 pirates. Zheng Yi Sao is regarded as one of the most successful pirates in all of human history.

She was also a middle aged, Chinese widow of no known combat ability.

Are you now going to claim that she was the strongest fighter or duellist amongst the thousands of men that she commanded?

I never denied the exceptions, Zheng was a widow of a Pirate captain and was also backed by that Pirate captains relatives, it was a competely different situation so its an exception. But now you are using exceptions to argue, which shows you are desperate.

However you can't prove why Redbeard should be the exception to this;

''Pirate captain was chosen based on his abilities as a fighter, sailor and leader.''

You asked me who else besides Blackbeard is a proven fighter who fought against the Navy soldiers, then you started to give example from exceptions and from the weaker ones. The thread as you can see from the poll, its about ''strongest ones''

I give example from Redbeard, you cried about imaginary rules of this thread and Redbeard not being pirate when I also proved he is.

Instead of admitting you were wrong, you made excuses and then throw away some other pirate names there who are obviously not amongst the ''strongest ones'' group as its stated in the poll. Nice, keep crying.

The discussion is about strongest pirate captains vs strongest samurai, if you still think the captains aren't enough, choose another pirate fighter from any pirate fleet and era to match with Samurai since you cried a lot.

I am amazed to see how u are still arguing with him
I would have given up till now
Arguing with that dumbass is like arguing to a brick wall

He will make his own points , then debunk it and then clown on u when u never even made a point
And he also debunks his own stuff and the changing of goalposts is also very consistent

This guy has been talking in forums for like 10 years
I guess he actually got brain damage due to that and now he simply repeats stuff like an AI bot

Dumbass clowns: asking for another proven Pirate other than Blackbeard who was able to beat the Navy soldiers, I provided the name of that other Pirate then they proceed to make excuses and lie about it that he is not a pirate.

If I didn't debunk your boy here, you wouldn't be crying nonstop with 2 posts in a row when I didn't even responded to you yet.

Lenox: ''eRkaN wIll do tHis wiLl do tHaT uiui''

Keep crying more Lenox, I will laugh more.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Guys stop I can't

 

[zenox]

ZKKclown Lenox started to cry again after I debunked the guy that he was licking his boots, don't cry bitch, it happens when you don't have the brain to argue and the guy you are relying is getting debunked badly
by me.

the AI is back

 

[L57]

Lerkan like pirates is afraid of showers @Erkan12

 

[Erkan12]

Lerkan like pirates is afraid of showers @Erkan12

No the ships are clean unlike the Samurai cities. New Samurai are now turned into Garbagemen finally started clean the cities from filth;

Maybe they will throw the ZKK Losers like you to trash.

 

[zenox]

If I didn't debunk your boy here, you wouldn't be crying nonstop with 2 posts in a row when I didn't even responded to you yet.

Lenox: ''eRkaN wIll do tHis wiLl do tHaT uiui''

Keep crying more Lenox, I will laugh more.

got the same energy as this

 

[Erkan12]

got the same energy as this

Did you just quote the same post 2 times due to your butthurt? Since I didn't reply to you, it looks like you desperately crave attention.

Your daddy Owl got debunked badly, get over with it ZKKbitch.

 

[Foul Legacy]

Did you just quote the same post 2 times

Still better than you spamming the same thing 10 times to brain wash.

 

[zenox]

Did you just quote the same post 2 times due to your butthurt? Since I didn't reply to you, it looks like you desperately crave attention.

Your daddy Owl got debunked badly, get over with it ZKKbitch.

 

[Jiihad]

Why in tha world would anyone use a movie for any kind of reference in this? Like I get using ship logs etc

But a movie, that is intended almost purely to sell and generate revenue. Is tha last “evidence” anyone should ever use

Also, @Owl Ki that was some fine posting my boi. This is tha quality shit I love to see

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Samurai are trained soldiers and pirates are just random criminals
If 12 American soldiers attack a gang with 12 members who are you taking?
if it's captain or strongest pirate i think they could take it possibly
But crew vs samurai army it's not even close

Amor a Luna

@Owl Ki you should thank @Erkan12 for creating your personal like farm thread

 

[Erkan12]

*Still attention seeking clown alert.

Btw I just noticed your dumb post got debunked very bad in the first page by someone else, I guess thats why this ZKKbitch got butthurt here and started to lick boots.

Amor a Luna

@Owl Ki you should thank @Erkan12 for creating your personal like farm thread

Another dumb clown after dumbass Lee who cares about likes.

You must be new here look at the guys general likes numbers, people likes to lick his boots even after I clearly debunked his ass 2 times here, I can't do anything more if they still want to lick his boots, they are like ZKK zealots (some of them really are)

Why in tha world would anyone use a movie for any kind of reference in this? Like I get using ship logs etc

But a movie, that is intended almost purely to sell and generate revenue. Is tha last “evidence” anyone should ever use

Also, @Owl Ki that was some fine posting my boi. This is tha quality shit I love to see

Here is a quick summary on how it goes;

Owl: ''Pirates are essentially naval thugs that are much more interested in intimidating submissive merchants into parting with their cargo than in actually fighting.''

- I specifically said 'Pirate Captains' to avoid this type of Pirates generalization, and reinforced my claim by showing the most realistic Pirate TV show (no fiction supernatural stuff in that show) which states Pirate Captains are usually the strongest fighters amongst the pirate crews.

Owl: ''No it means nothing, thats just Holywood bullshit''

- Ok fine, then I showed another source (not a TV show) this time, that states ''Pirates Captains are chosen based on their ability as a fighter, sailor and leader'' and as well as I give example from Pirate Captain Edward Teach's superior combat portrayal vs the trained Navy Lieutenant in 1 v 1 combat.

*Debunked no.1

Owl: Makes tons of excuses, still slanders with as if I said fighting power only means 1 v 1 duel, then uses exception examples amongst the pirate captains, then lowballs the trained Navy Lieutenant and Navy soldiers, and then asks me what is the another example Pirate Captain other than Edward Teach, acts like there isn't any.

- I give example from Pirate Captain Barbarossa Redbeard, who was known for his many battles vs the Spanish Navy and Spanish Knights.

Owl: makes excuses again as if I said you can only use Pirates from a certain time period, then claims that Redbeard isn't a Pirate.

- I debunked that shit again by proving Redbeard was called Pirate many times and even called ''King of Pirates'' in different sources.

*Debunked 2nd time.

 

[Jiihad]

@Erkan12 im not tryna clown you or talk shit or nothin. On sum real **** shit, man to man. You don’t have an argument hea bro

You’re using a movie which by its nature is mostly made to ENTERTAIN and generate revenue. It being historically accurate is by nature of it being a film/documentary etc generally not a priority most times

Let alone, you’re using BlavkBeard and iirc one other pirate captain to bolster your talkin point. @Owl Ki has brought up MULTIPLE examples of samurai being borderline world class combatants. As well as multiple factual points that most pirates and by extension captains aren’t these world beating fighters. And are predominantly good at making money or bringing people together for their cause