Controversial End of GT Goku would rank at the top of the Super foodchain

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#1
If we simply consider that first form Frieza (RoF) was able to quickly dismantle a Gohan massively weaker than his Mystic self and that Buu Saga Mystic Gohan would likely at least be more powerful than first form Frieza from RoF then we can simply go by the GT scaling:

Kid GT Goku is likely SSJ3 Goku level from the Buu saga (was able to fight Base Rildo decently before going Super Saiyan and Base Rildo was implied to stand above at least Kid Buu going by Goku's statement on his sensed ki, plus Base Adult Goku was fighting Uub on par and that Uub was likely stronger than Kid Buu if we consider all those years of training).

The multiplier from first form Frieza to final form Frieza is a little above x200 while that of Base Goku to SSJ3 around x400.

Even if first form Frieza RoF is eventually above SSJ3 Goku from Buu Saga a SSJ3 Kid Goku should approach the level of final form Frieza (RoF) but of course not that of Golden Frieza and yet that Goku was no match to Baby Vegeta forms.

The gap between Base Goku (RoF) and his SS God form is not high because he already retains godly status in base as stated in Battle of Gods but the gap between SS God and SS Blue is more robust as proven in the tournament of power going by how he was able to fight Jiren slightly better while still no match.

It's not crazy to speculate that SSJ4 Goku from Baby arc at least approaches the level of SS Blue from RoF and that limit surpassed SSJ4 Goku at least approaches that of SS Blue from ToP.

SSJ4 Gogeta might be on the orientative ballpark of SS Blue Gogeta from the Broly movie or at least in the Jiren ballpark if we wanna keep him lower.

SSJ4 Gogeta should be significantly more powerful than a SSJ2 Kefla who gave UI Goku somewhat of a challenge.

End of GT Goku trained for 100 years and would likely make SSJ4 Gogeta look like a Saibaman and would scale so much above a SS Blue from ToP it's not even funny.

In the movie A Hero's Legacy his hype literally made him look massively godly, and it might not be crazy to suggest he has surpassed the realm of the Gods of Destruction even in the Super manga let alone anime, and perhaps even Angels if the gap is really massive thanks to those 100 years of training.

Goku likely trained fiercely during that century knowing his character...



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Daniel

‎‎‎‎
#2
He would be, if he was trapped in the time chamber and was wished to become immortal in there :0

You think the fusion multiplier that formed SSJ4 Gogeta (Goku after 100 years with the Dragon Balls absorbed should at least be this strong) would be enough to cross over to the SSB levels in DBSuper?
 
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Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#3
He would be, if he was trapped in the time chamber and was wished to become immortal in there :0

You think the fusion multiplier that formed SSJ4 Gogeta (Goku after 100 years with the Dragon Balls absorbed should at least be this strong) would be enough to cross over to the SSB levels in DBSuper?
Yep, I think that most of the powerscalers who consider Super Saiyan God from BoG above SSJ4 Gogeta simply lack the proper knowledge of GT scaling and how it works there and just make a guess lacking scientific series bases.

They typically consider SSJ4 Goku only somewhat stronger than SSJ Vegito, but in reality unless SSJ Vegito is around x4000 Buu saga SSJ3 Goku multiplier wise, which is extremely unlikely, that cannot be the case.

Regardless, final form Frieza from RoF cannot be remotely close x4000 SSJ3 Goku, more likely something around x400 as I explained based off the GT scaling, perhaps his Golden form can approach that...

This line of thought starts with the speculation that Mystic Gohan from Z is above first form Frieza from RoF which looks a decent guess considering how well he did against Piccolo literally as soon as his power was awakened again even before further training for ToP.

SSJ4 Gogeta is around two orders of magnitude above a SSJ4, but not a common SSJ4, the limit surpassed one...
 

Daniel

‎‎‎‎
#4
Regardless, final form Frieza from RoF cannot be remotely close x4000 SSJ3 Goku,
Final Form Frieza from RoF, after four months of training, managed to go toe-to-toe with Goku, who had absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his base form (referred to as the Saiyan Beyond God).

That version of Goku, after training for some time with Whis leading up to the Golden Frieza fight, should be significantly stronger than Goku in his Super Saiyan God state when he first fought Beerus.

You know, the version of Goku whose punches created shockwaves strong enough to destroy the entirety of Universe 7 when they collided with Beerus' own? The shockwaves even traveled all the way to Kaioshin's realm.

That feat by itself should place even Super Saiyan God Goku possibly above Omega Shenron's Death Ball, shouldn't it?
 

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#5
Final Form Frieza from RoF, after four months of training, managed to go toe-to-toe with Goku, who had absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his base form (referred to as the Saiyan Beyond God).

That version of Goku, after training for some time with Whis leading up to the Golden Frieza fight, should be significantly stronger than Goku in his Super Saiyan God state when he first fought Beerus.

You know, the version of Goku whose punches created shockwaves strong enough to destroy the entirety of Universe 7 when they collided with Beerus' own? The shockwaves even traveled all the way to Kaioshin's realm.

That feat by itself should place even Super Saiyan God Goku possibly above Omega Shenron's Death Ball, shouldn't it?
I would personally not use that. GT didn't focus on busting feats and much more on 1vs1 fights focusing on Goku's opponents, so it would be unfair.

I think it's more fair to go by scaling.

Mystic Gohan (as soon as power was reawakened) > Piccolo (before ToP) > Third Form Frost

Even if we keep it low and say that Mystic Gohan Z is above first form Frieza and that's it and that first form Frieza > Super Saiyan Gotenks RoF that's still going to end up with SSJ4 Goku being around x4000 SSJ3 Goku multiplier wise whereas the multiplier for final form Frieza is a bit above x200 first form Frieza... Mystic Gohan is x2-3 SSJ3 Goku at best.

I can see Black Frieza thrashing SSJ4 Gogeta, but I can also see End of GT Goku thrashing Gogeta even more assuming he fiercely trained for 100 years... SSJ4 limit surpassed Goku should already stand in the overall ballpark of Golden Frieza from ToP.
 

Daniel

‎‎‎‎
#6
There's a problem with the power progression of characters in DBS. Characters seem to power up way too fast (even side characters) and it makes the goal of growing stronger as a fighter kind of trivial.

After Gohan trained again alongside Piccolo in order to regain his Ultimate form, he somehow managed to get strong enough to match SSB Goku, even though Gohan had access to his Ultimate form when Beerus appeared the first time and got his ass handed to him in < 5 seconds
 
#10
I agree

Also GT >>>>> Super. :araboss:
Better fights.
Better heights.
Slick animations.
Slick transformations.
Cooler chill.
Hotter grill.
Gangster Giru.
Toriyama was sad for the reception GT got... and made Super

I miss this dumb little nibba like you wouldn't believe.
WORDDDDDD
Post automatically merged:

GT Post Shenron Ssj4 Goku fusing with Vegeta>>> Ssb Goku
Post automatically merged:

Irrelevant but I thought lore wise AF was gas ⛽
 
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#11
90% of GT fights were fucking boring. Especially if they didn’t have Goku in them. And everyone besides Goku were completely wasted and made useless in GT.

Take off the nostalgia glasses people, SS4 and the Baby Arc were the only decent things to come out of GT

Super has its flaws, but it’s high points easily eclipse anything that came out of 24/7 Goku Time: The Show
 
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#12
Nah, it really wouldn't, the absolute peak of GT is Omega Shenron apparently being able to destroy the universe, a statement that also exists at the beginning of DBS in Battle of Gods lmao.
 
#13
90% of GT fights were fucking boring. Especially if they didn’t have Goku in them. And everyone besides Goku were completely wasted and made useless in GT.

Take off the nostalgia glasses people, SS4 and the Baby Arc were the only decent things to come out of GT

Super has its flaws, but it’s high points easily eclipse anything that came out of 24/7 Goku Time: The Show
And gogeta
 
#16
That’s why I said Super Saiyan 4 as in the form itself and not the characters who accessed it

Saying GT introduced Gogeta because it’s the series that debuted his Super Saiyan 4 version is like saying Goku debuted in DBZ rather than Dragon Ball because that’s where his iconic Super Saiyan transformations began
 

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#17
Nah, it really wouldn't, the absolute peak of GT is Omega Shenron apparently being able to destroy the universe, a statement that also exists at the beginning of DBS in Battle of Gods lmao.
Dragon Ball works by scaling cause in Dragon Ball there's the logic that the guy with higher power level is usually that with more busting power.

SSJ4 Gogeta >>>>>
 

Daniel

‎‎‎‎
#18
Dragon Ball works by scaling cause in Dragon Ball there's the logic that the guy with higher power level is usually that with more busting power.

SSJ4 Gogeta >>>>>
Power level progression diverged from how it was supposed to go from (end of DBZ) -> (DBGT) when Beerus appeared the first time and introduced a completely new level of power, and even a suppressed Beerus and a newly formed SSG Goku was risking destroying the entirety of the Universe (and we all know what feat this statement is alluding to).

It's already on the level of what Omega Shenron "maybe" could do with his full power (maybe because the visually impressive just aren't there in DBGT)

Even when Gohan went Mystic when Beerus showed up on that cruise the first time he got badly owned...not that it explains how tf Gohan gained enough power to match with SSB Goku who trained with Whis/Beerus for at the very least, months while learning to master God Ki + figuring out ways to continuously get stronger.

Realistically Mystic Gohan shouldn't have been that much stronger than the version of Mystic Gohan in Buu Saga but ever since Goku and Vegeta learned how to stack Super Saiyan on top of God Mode Toriyama had to make all the side characters still relevant in a fight somehow.

But definitions for what's canon or not is becoming bs and it sometimes gets weaponized for others to wank or downplay feats from their/others' favorite verses as they see fit
 
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