Controversial General Political Discussion
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Yes they were (not all of them tho) :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany
And same for Fascists in Italy. (I'm talking mainly about the population not the states itself that was anticlerical)
They were not only religious, they tried to use religion or the repression of religious believes as a way to control the masses.
THat's what "religion and state" means. Fascism is the cult of tradition, and one of its basis is religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany
And same for Fascists in Italy. (I'm talking mainly about the population not the states itself that was anticlerical)
They were not only religious, they tried to use religion or the repression of religious believes as a way to control the masses.
THat's what "religion and state" means. Fascism is the cult of tradition, and one of its basis is religion
Not really. Although there were religious fascist, the state used it to try to control the mass.
That's exactly what is happening in Europpean country. For example Cryptofascist far right party are using the so call christian foundation of the country to estinguish Muslim and Islam.
Fascism is rooted with the hate of everything different from what it deems to be the norm and will therefore use everything, even religion and twist its usage to repress other confession.
Its important to note also that fascism is an adaptative movement. Meaning that it will grow in different form alongside different ideologies. You might wanna search the term "clerical fascism" which is something that grew with Mussolini and less with Hitler.
But in anyway. You don't have to understand the point : "religion and state interwined" as we saying that fascist are always religious. The point is that fascist will have not problem to use religion or its spreading to control the mass and oppress minorities.
That's exactly what is happening in Europpean country. For example Cryptofascist far right party are using the so call christian foundation of the country to estinguish Muslim and Islam.
Fascism is rooted with the hate of everything different from what it deems to be the norm and will therefore use everything, even religion and twist its usage to repress other confession.
Its important to note also that fascism is an adaptative movement. Meaning that it will grow in different form alongside different ideologies. You might wanna search the term "clerical fascism" which is something that grew with Mussolini and less with Hitler.
But in anyway. You don't have to understand the point : "religion and state interwined" as we saying that fascist are always religious. The point is that fascist will have not problem to use religion or its spreading to control the mass and oppress minorities.
Mate,
First, Why are you suddenly hostile when we are defining fascism ?
Second, The fact that Nazis were anticlerical doesn't change the fact that Germany or the states ideologies were heavily influenced by religion. Religous christian people as explained welcomed Nazism
Third, when we talk about Fascism we talk not only about Nazism, but every fascism (included here the fascism of Mussolini that had ties with religious people >> check "clerical fascism" ).
HItler was an atheist (not all Nazi were atheist, they had very different set of beliefs actually) but it didn't stop him to try to use religion to control the masses.
Fourth. Again, you need to understand that when we are talking about the link between religion and fascism, we are not necessarily saying that the stay is pro religion, we are explaining how the state is using religion as a tool for control.
But the main problem isn't really religion, its the cult of traditions which religions are a part of and its appropriation by fascist as a mean of control and repression.
First, Why are you suddenly hostile when we are defining fascism ?
Second, The fact that Nazis were anticlerical doesn't change the fact that Germany or the states ideologies were heavily influenced by religion. Religous christian people as explained welcomed Nazism
Third, when we talk about Fascism we talk not only about Nazism, but every fascism (included here the fascism of Mussolini that had ties with religious people >> check "clerical fascism" ).
HItler was an atheist (not all Nazi were atheist, they had very different set of beliefs actually) but it didn't stop him to try to use religion to control the masses.
Fourth. Again, you need to understand that when we are talking about the link between religion and fascism, we are not necessarily saying that the stay is pro religion, we are explaining how the state is using religion as a tool for control.
But the main problem isn't really religion, its the cult of traditions which religions are a part of and its appropriation by fascist as a mean of control and repression.
Not necessarily no.
I'm using the scholar consensus and the words of a scholar who studied and fought fascism to explain what fascism is mate. Stay focus.
Again to understand how to recognize primitive fascism you can check for the words of Umberto Eco. His description of Urfascism is largely accepted by scholars and researchers on the subject:
Also, why the animosity ?
I'm using the scholar consensus and the words of a scholar who studied and fought fascism to explain what fascism is mate. Stay focus.
Again to understand how to recognize primitive fascism you can check for the words of Umberto Eco. His description of Urfascism is largely accepted by scholars and researchers on the subject:
Also, why the animosity ?
Not necessarily no.
I'm using the scholar consensus and the words of a scholar who studied and fought fascism to explain what fascism is mate. Stay focus.
Again to understand how to recognize primitive fascism you can check for the words of Umberto Eco. His description of Urfascism is largely accepted by scholars and researchers on the subject:
Also, why the animosity ?
I'm using the scholar consensus and the words of a scholar who studied and fought fascism to explain what fascism is mate. Stay focus.
Again to understand how to recognize primitive fascism you can check for the words of Umberto Eco. His description of Urfascism is largely accepted by scholars and researchers on the subject:
Also, why the animosity ?
This only means that they used religion to their advantage. Imagine if they had fought religion in Germany and Italy? There would have been many internal conflicts, fascism and Nazism would have been less popular.
And not forget that both Hitler, the main thinkers and leaders of nazism, and even Mussolini were atheists.
It's important to note that the tradition worshipped, by nazis, wasn't a real tradition, just a myth of an aryan people that never existed mixed with mysticism, nostalgia for nordic and germanic culture and the social xarwinism of the time. Religious tradition was never the main focus.
And not forget that both Hitler, the main thinkers and leaders of nazism, and even Mussolini were atheists.
It's important to note that the tradition worshipped, by nazis, wasn't a real tradition, just a myth of an aryan people that never existed mixed with mysticism, nostalgia for nordic and germanic culture and the social xarwinism of the time. Religious tradition was never the main focus.
Indeed. That's one of the big thing of fascists and by extention the far right : They dream about bringing back the past. But a past that never existed in the first place. Its the idealistic vision of the past or far past world.
There is something really interesting and quite frankly terrifying with fascist but far right ideologies generally, is that they are the logical continuation and maximalist results of all our biases.
This means that to get out of those, you literally have to think against yourself, which is quasi impossible (I've touched only the tip of those far right ideas and I remember that without my pre-existing care about homosexual people at the time (because I knew a few), I would not have been able to have any kind of progressist beliefs and think against my biases.
I remember falling very quickly in the trap of complotism and antisemitism. I remember how hard it was for me to silence my hatred for Islam or for SJW.. So I know very well that its almost mission impossible to ask someone like Hererra to become like me.
But we have to, because the future of the world is dark and the most terrifying thing about fascism is that it doesn't let you prepare. When you see it, its already there.
People who think the far right is right don't realize the danger of their ideologies.
To create an allegory, this is what putting the far right in FULL power looks like in real life:
Each dominos is ones steps closer to fascism.
- The first domino will be the mastering of the mainstream press. With the far right in power, you can be sure the mainstream owned by billionnaires will align with the interest of the power since liberals won't be affected too much by a far right government.
- The second domino is the devaluation of the truth. We live in a world where information is far harder to fact check than it is to spread. The far right, because of their nature tend to FLOOD the informations and minds of people with so much lies and fake news that it will be impossible to fact check everything. The truth will lose its value. This is something that is already happening today. You just have to look at example like Trump, Macron or the RN in France.
- The third domino is the murder of the public press. With the mainstream media aligning to the POPULAR power. The public press will be pressured by all sides to stop the "liberal propaganda", population included, and because the far right think that the press should not be hold by the power and therefore should not spread information that favors the power, they will privatize of the public press.. Those stations will be bought by billionnaires that will.. logically align themselves with the interest of liberals or the far right power. As you can see, I'm talking about the public press as mainly defending the interest of liberals. A leftist press would be absolutely non existent, so you can expect the radicalization of the press and the public debate toward reactionnary agendas.
- The fourth domino is the radicalization of the rural masses. Yes, I'm talking about the radicalization of everyone who ALREADY voted for the far right in rural zone with little to no big access to internet. The reason behind that is the echo chamber created by the previous dominos. The absence of viable and truthfull informations and the absence of diversities in media, will push the media to radicalize themselves and this will in result push the population who watches those media to radicalizes themselves as well. We will start with journalists saying that migrants could be a potential danger for our villages to end with journalists saying that trans people are pedophiles, that black people who live in "no-go zones" are lazy, that psychically ill people - like me - are mostly faking their illness, that we must force poor people to work etc. andthe population will follow..
- The fifth domino is the radicalization of the politics. Because don't expect political people to be spared by the radicalization. Far right people are not people who follow science. They are mostly climatosceptics and do not accept the entierity of the scientific spectrum as legitimate. So if an echo chamber is created, you can expect far rightist political deputee to be radicalized the same way as other people or their own voters. In short, theirs own ideology will push them to radicalize themself. It literally like a spaceship going faster and faster in space because it has fuel and it is moving without resistance. The fuel of the far right is literally its own ideology and the more they will be in power the more radical and dangerous they will be. So you can expect worst and worst politics in EVERY domain. Politics they didn't even had to begin with.
- The sixth dominois the murder of the institution and the constitution. You guys have to understand that fascism hurt us SO BAD during the war because the constitution was ripped appart that a LOT of countries created a fail safe. They created institution to oppose or discuss any change to constitutionnal rights. Well, guess what. Some far rightist's main goal is to get rid of the institutions that could block them from creating their far right politics (such as the national preference in France for ex.). In France, with a majority or a referundum, the president could delete completely the constitutional counsil and destroy any resistance for their politics. They would have therefore free range to do what they want.
With the assemblee with a radicalized far right, without anyone to stop the far right from changing the constitution or applicate its politics, with a population that radicalize everyday more and more..
I give them less than 3 years to transform any country into a fascist one WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING IT.
Because as you can see, the only thing that is really intended here, is the ideology. EVERYTHING ELSE is a RESULT of said ideology. The far right in power without counter power would result in a majority completely OUT OF CONTROL from the people and the politic themself since those politics will be forced by their own situation and place to follow the train.
The ones who will resists even a little will be annihilated and will be left all the others who are not realizing that they are radicalizing themself more and more.
80 years ago, fascism did not appear because people wanted fascism. Fascism appeared because people didn't think about the consequences of their actions !
For far rightist, I hope you will find the strenght to resist your biases before its too late.
For the others, you should be afraid of what is coming.
There is something really interesting and quite frankly terrifying with fascist but far right ideologies generally, is that they are the logical continuation and maximalist results of all our biases.
This means that to get out of those, you literally have to think against yourself, which is quasi impossible (I've touched only the tip of those far right ideas and I remember that without my pre-existing care about homosexual people at the time (because I knew a few), I would not have been able to have any kind of progressist beliefs and think against my biases.
I remember falling very quickly in the trap of complotism and antisemitism. I remember how hard it was for me to silence my hatred for Islam or for SJW.. So I know very well that its almost mission impossible to ask someone like Hererra to become like me.
But we have to, because the future of the world is dark and the most terrifying thing about fascism is that it doesn't let you prepare. When you see it, its already there.
People who think the far right is right don't realize the danger of their ideologies.
To create an allegory, this is what putting the far right in FULL power looks like in real life:
Each dominos is ones steps closer to fascism.
- The first domino will be the mastering of the mainstream press. With the far right in power, you can be sure the mainstream owned by billionnaires will align with the interest of the power since liberals won't be affected too much by a far right government.
- The second domino is the devaluation of the truth. We live in a world where information is far harder to fact check than it is to spread. The far right, because of their nature tend to FLOOD the informations and minds of people with so much lies and fake news that it will be impossible to fact check everything. The truth will lose its value. This is something that is already happening today. You just have to look at example like Trump, Macron or the RN in France.
- The third domino is the murder of the public press. With the mainstream media aligning to the POPULAR power. The public press will be pressured by all sides to stop the "liberal propaganda", population included, and because the far right think that the press should not be hold by the power and therefore should not spread information that favors the power, they will privatize of the public press.. Those stations will be bought by billionnaires that will.. logically align themselves with the interest of liberals or the far right power. As you can see, I'm talking about the public press as mainly defending the interest of liberals. A leftist press would be absolutely non existent, so you can expect the radicalization of the press and the public debate toward reactionnary agendas.
- The fourth domino is the radicalization of the rural masses. Yes, I'm talking about the radicalization of everyone who ALREADY voted for the far right in rural zone with little to no big access to internet. The reason behind that is the echo chamber created by the previous dominos. The absence of viable and truthfull informations and the absence of diversities in media, will push the media to radicalize themselves and this will in result push the population who watches those media to radicalizes themselves as well. We will start with journalists saying that migrants could be a potential danger for our villages to end with journalists saying that trans people are pedophiles, that black people who live in "no-go zones" are lazy, that psychically ill people - like me - are mostly faking their illness, that we must force poor people to work etc. andthe population will follow..
- The fifth domino is the radicalization of the politics. Because don't expect political people to be spared by the radicalization. Far right people are not people who follow science. They are mostly climatosceptics and do not accept the entierity of the scientific spectrum as legitimate. So if an echo chamber is created, you can expect far rightist political deputee to be radicalized the same way as other people or their own voters. In short, theirs own ideology will push them to radicalize themself. It literally like a spaceship going faster and faster in space because it has fuel and it is moving without resistance. The fuel of the far right is literally its own ideology and the more they will be in power the more radical and dangerous they will be. So you can expect worst and worst politics in EVERY domain. Politics they didn't even had to begin with.
- The sixth dominois the murder of the institution and the constitution. You guys have to understand that fascism hurt us SO BAD during the war because the constitution was ripped appart that a LOT of countries created a fail safe. They created institution to oppose or discuss any change to constitutionnal rights. Well, guess what. Some far rightist's main goal is to get rid of the institutions that could block them from creating their far right politics (such as the national preference in France for ex.). In France, with a majority or a referundum, the president could delete completely the constitutional counsil and destroy any resistance for their politics. They would have therefore free range to do what they want.
With the assemblee with a radicalized far right, without anyone to stop the far right from changing the constitution or applicate its politics, with a population that radicalize everyday more and more..
I give them less than 3 years to transform any country into a fascist one WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING IT.
Because as you can see, the only thing that is really intended here, is the ideology. EVERYTHING ELSE is a RESULT of said ideology. The far right in power without counter power would result in a majority completely OUT OF CONTROL from the people and the politic themself since those politics will be forced by their own situation and place to follow the train.
The ones who will resists even a little will be annihilated and will be left all the others who are not realizing that they are radicalizing themself more and more.
80 years ago, fascism did not appear because people wanted fascism. Fascism appeared because people didn't think about the consequences of their actions !
For far rightist, I hope you will find the strenght to resist your biases before its too late.
For the others, you should be afraid of what is coming.
This is why they used hatred and Cult of Personality
I voted for Lutte Ouvrière. The NFP candidate of my constituency is from Place Publique, and I won't vote for a centrist. The second round is LR against RN. I won't vote for a LR candidate. I'll eitheir vote blanc or RN.
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I voted for Lutte Ouvrière. The NFP candidate of my constituency is from Place Publique, and I won't vote for a centrist. The second round is LR against RN. I won't vote for a LR candidate. I'll eitheir vote blanc or RN.
You are voting for the far left labor party and seriously hesitating to vote either blanck or the far right ? Are you serious here ?
The far right is AGAINST the interests of worker. They are literally working for billionnaires and the bourgeoisie.
And voting blank ?
Do you prefer creating a revolution against a centrist leftist party that will bring you the CRS or against the far right that will be in your home before you even go to the streets and later maybe shoot you in the streets ??
Dude, I've seen literal anarchists votes because they know how dangerous the situation is. Lutte Ouvrière has completely lost its way.
The far right is AGAINST the interests of worker. They are literally working for billionnaires and the bourgeoisie.
And voting blank ?
Do you prefer creating a revolution against a centrist leftist party that will bring you the CRS or against the far right that will be in your home before you even go to the streets and later maybe shoot you in the streets ??
Dude, I've seen literal anarchists votes because they know how dangerous the situation is. Lutte Ouvrière has completely lost its way.
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