Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

For someone who so strongly claims he's in the ideology of liberty and freedom

I'm not.

Freedom is amazing until it's used to oppress other people. You can't have illimited freedom unless all people behave in synchronization and complete cohesion with one another.

On top of that. You seem to think that saying oppressive things is a basic human right. You couldn't say something more pertinent to prove the fact that we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

 

[Mathias]

Do you guys think that we should cut the throat of our leaders and ask for direct and pure democracy like in ancient Athens ?

DEBATE !!!!

whenever I pop in here it's the same debates lol

Bring up a debate

 

[AL sama]

For someone who so strongly claims he's in the ideology of liberty and freedom, he sure loves to attempt suppression the basic human right of speaking.....

its not suppression if its progressive vanny

 

[Logiko]

Do you guys think that we should cut the throat of our leaders and ask for direct and pure democracy like in ancient Athens ?

DEBATE !!!!







Bring up a debate

You mean ...

 

[Mathias]

You mean ...

Death penalty part was a joke

 

[Logiko]

Death penalty part was a joke

Yeah.. we are joking.. of course.. I knew that...

:risicheck:

 

[Uncle Van]

I'm not.

Freedom is amazing until it's used to oppress other people. You can't have illimited freedom unless all people behave in synchronization and complete cohesion with one another.

Liberty and Freedom are inferently left wing. Sounds like you agree that laws are in place to restrict freedom and maintain order.

On top of that. You seem to think that saying oppressive things is a basic human right. You couldn't say something more pertinent to prove the fact that we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

People can, and should say, whatever the hell the want. Speaking is indeed, a very basic right. That doesn't however, excuse them from consequences. Even for this forum, someone can tell someone to kill themselves whenever they want. However, that would get them banned for saying something objectively messed up.

You however, are obsessed with suppressing harmless language to create an echo chamber.

 

[Logiko]

Liberty and Freedom and inferently left wing.

Liberty and freedom are vast concepts. They are neither right wing or left wing. It's how we use them that counts.

Freedom of speech can be used to promote hate speech but the freedom of living without harm can also be used to prevent hate speech.

Sounds like you agree that laws are in place to restrict freedom and maintain order.

Laws are in place (ideally) to prevent behavior that can harm the group. Freedom as an illimited concept includes everything, including a range from hate speech to murder.

So yes, laws can restrict freedom as a absolute concept. Now the question is, are those behavior "freedom" ?

People can, and should say, whatever the hell the want. Speaking is indeed, a very basic right. That doesn't however, excuse them from consequences. Even for this forum, someone can tell someone to kill themselves whenever they want. However, that would get them banned for saying something objectively messed up.

You however, are obsessed with suppressing harmless language to create an echo chamber.

You seem to think that I want to suppress the right of people to express their opinion, however problematic they are.

This proves once again that you understand NOTHING about the way I think

I absolutely do not care if people want to express their support of fascist, genocide or treathen my live, even if I will try to make them think differently. I will NEVER prevent them from posting. No one should have this power.

What I wish is for the SYSTEM, to do a better job at moderating those content after the fact AND for the SYSTEM, to create an environment where those people will have less motivation to say those things in the first place.

Anyone can say whatever they want, THAT'S freedom of speech, but yeah, that's not freedom from consequence.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

Show business is creepy

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Do you guys think that we should cut the throat of our leaders and ask for direct and pure democracy like in ancient Athens ?

DEBATE !!

There is no such thing as pure democracy. There's Only democracy. Anything called democracy that incorporates oligarchic, feudalistic or authoritarian elements is not a democracy at all.
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Ancient Athens didn't let women nor slaves vote btw so bullshit system
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Death penalty part was a joke

Yes you are clever, don't tell the internet police your true intentions
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Also I prefer knives over guillotines. Guillotines do all the work for you which sucks, I want to have fun you know?!

 

[Uncle Van]

Liberty and freedom are vast concepts. They are neither right wing or left wing. It's how we use them that counts.

You don't even know the basic values of lefitsm and it's history....and you brag about being French?

 

[Zenos7]

we must not allow certains toxic opinions to be shared..

I'm not even that radical

I absolutely do not care if people want to express their support of fascist, genocide or treathen my live

 

[Logiko]

You don't even know the basic values of lefitsm and it's history....and you brag about being French?

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with you.

When you do not understand that liberty and freedom are overarching concepts that can be used at the same time to do good and bad things, really... do not even try to give me moral lessons about leftism or historic leftism. You are really not the best seated to do that.

In a normal environement, they should be able to express themselves, and we should be able to moderate them and show them the consequences of their actions. Hence, those opinions should not be able to be shared by the system.

In other words, no one should be able to stop Bob from saying fascistic things but himself BUT we should be able to moderate what he says quickly and show him the consequences of his acts.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Laws are in place (ideally) to prevent behavior that can harm the group. Freedom as an illimited concept includes everything, including a range from hate speech to murder.

Nope, only in theory. In practice, laws exist to suppress the people, the ones who devised them don't follow the law.

 

[Logiko]

Nope, only in theory. In practice, laws exist to suppress the people, the ones who devised them don't follow the law.

That's why why I said "ideally". In reality, people can do a lot's of things with laws.

That's why in absolute, I'm against them. But I'm forced to understand that in our current world, we can't work without them. I just hope there will come a day where our specie won't need any law to function socially.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

I just hope there will come a day where our specie won't need any law to function socially.

Won't ever happen
Keep dreaming fluffy

 

[Uncle Van]

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with you.

When you do not understand that liberty and freedom are overarching concepts that can be used at the same time to do good and bad things, really... do not even try to give me moral lessons about leftism or historic leftism. You are really not the best seated to do that.



In a normal environement, they should be able to express themselves, and we should be able to moderate them and show them the consequences of their actions. Hence, those opinions should not be able to be shared by the system.

In other words, no one should be able to stop Bob from saying fascistic things but himself BUT we should be able to moderate what he says quickly and show him the consequences of his acts.

Ok I get it. You have a very specific, narrow, and close minded view of what leftism should be. Anyone who doesn't fit into your very narrow made up version of leftism is called problematic. The fact you don't even know the basic values and history of leftism is telling.

Nobody cares a out your personal values and made up criteria. Learn history, use words correct by definition, tell things like it is instead of tossing personal values into everything etc. You'd make much better progress if you do that.

 

[Blax Blah]

Ok I get it. You have a very specific, narrow, and close minded view of what leftism should be. Anyone who doesn't fit into your very narrow made up version of leftism is called problematic. The fact you don't even know the basic values and history of leftism is telling.

Nobody cares a out your personal values and made up criteria. Learn history, use words correct by definition, tell things like it is instead of tossing personal values into everything etc. You'd make much better progress if you do that.

What are the basic values of leftism, and could you please recommend some writings on those values, and of the history of it?,
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Liberty and freedom are vast concepts. They are neither right wing or left wing. It's how we use them that counts.

Freedom of speech can be used to promote hate speech but the freedom of living without harm can also be used to prevent hate speech.


Laws are in place (ideally) to prevent behavior that can harm the group. Freedom as an illimited concept includes everything, including a range from hate speech to murder.

So yes, laws can restrict freedom as a absolute concept. Now the question is, are those behavior "freedom" ?


You seem to think that I want to suppress the right of people to express their opinion, however problematic they are.

This proves once again that you understand NOTHING about the way I think

I absolutely do not care if people want to express their support of fascist, genocide or treathen my live, even if I will try to make them think differently. I will NEVER prevent them from posting. No one should have this power.

What I wish is for the SYSTEM, to do a better job at moderating those content after the fact AND for the SYSTEM, to create an environment where those people will have less motivation to say those things in the first place.

Anyone can say whatever they want, THAT'S freedom of speech, but yeah, that's not freedom from consequence.

On the freedom part of your post, I would recommend this video:

 

[Roo]

so israel pretty much nuked hezbollah in a matter of weeks

 

[Logiko]

Ok I get it. You have a very specific, narrow, and close minded view of what leftism should be. Anyone who doesn't fit into your very narrow made up version of leftism is called problematic. The fact you don't even know the basic values and history of leftism is telling.

Nobody cares a out your personal values and made up criteria. Learn history, use words correct by definition, tell things like it is instead of tossing personal values into everything etc. You'd make much better progress if you do that.

Mate, you are the one not understanding the history and the basic values of leftism.. and you want to teach that to ME, the most politically engaged person here.

You don't know what most words I'm using mean, you have a good surface level knowlege, even better than me on some level, but do not use it to think. You don't understand linguistic, you don't understand the deeper philosophical conflict that is at the center of the political debate, you don't understand the notions of freedom and liberty, you don't understand the concepts of rationnality and radicality.

You are simply someone who protects the status co and do not understand what real activism really is. It scares you and makes you uncomfortable. Thinking that you have the openess of the mind and a complete rationnality when in reality all you do is fall for the rethorics of people on your right. You don't even see the path that is in front of you and you stick to your little corner of rationnality.

Leftism exist because rightism exist. It simple as that. This means that you can't connect the two, there are BIG contradictions on pretty much all the values.

But honestly, I'm done trying to explain things to you. I don't want to lose more energy trying to convince people who don't want to learn.

On the freedom part of your post, I would recommend this video:

Can you give me a quick summary please ? I'm watching a long stream right now, can't watch a video.