Character Discussion Luffy surpasses his opponents

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

He typically leaves the arc equal to or relative to the main antagonist
This is especially evident since, for example, he was unable to move for a bit after beating Lucci in Enies Lobby, while Lucci was also able to move, but was clearly more injured since he was going to die without his fellow Cipher Pol agents helping him out. And he used one of his strongest moves to take down Lucci there.
Same case with people like Katakuri and Doflamingo, though Doflamingo was more of a Cracker type opponent. He knew Luffy had more brute strength and durability, so he avoided direct clashes and tried his best to stall him by spamming Awakened strings.

 

[Dcbluffy]

What is your beef with Luffy that makes you just get on here an lie 😞

bro called a one tap a draw 😂 the luffy hate is real

Post automatically merged: Today at 1:45 AM

Whats your beef with reading when Yamato directly stated that Kaido was weakened before fighting Luffy

didn’t luffy fight kaido while on death’s door ?

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

Against Doflamingo I agree, with G4 he was clearly above and the previous battle show, even if Doflamingo tried to stall, he would lose in the end because Luffy would find a hole in the end as he did with Leo Bazooka.

Against Katakuri is simple different, Katakuri changed his fight and later didn't used his Mogura again(probably of Guilty), also Luffy admit and asked Katakuri if he could use Snakeman or not, in that moment it was simple, if Katakuri would be against it, Luffy would lose that battle, that was all or nothing for Luffy.

So in a real battle where Katakuri stopping Luffy of using G4, it clearly show he wouldn't be able to win, Luffy way equal to Kata but clearly not stronger. Only with adv CoA and his full training in wano, he became stronger.

Against Kaido it is also hard to judge, similar to Katakuri case. Yes Luffy strongest Attack and raw power surpassed Kaido strongest move but however, Kaido literally dominated G5 even until the end with his drunken Mod.
Check up how much Luffy hit Drunken hybrid Kaido and how much the opposite hit Luffy.

Drunken Hybrid Kaido had clearly the upperhand and if he wanted it he could dodge Baijrung Gun, so this is also hard to dodge.

Law got stronger after wano as we saw against Teach where his haki was clearly far stronger.

So End Of Wano Luffy was probably little weaker than Kaido, but Egghead Luffy probably equal duo getting stronger.

In wano Luffy didn't surpassed Kaido in overall category, but in Egghead he should be at least on his lvl or even above.

So as you see Luffy don't always surpass his opponents at whole, fightstyle in the end matters.

 

[Roo]

Doflamingo>
Kaido >>
Warcury>
cryyyyy

 

[sanjikun]

Luffy did surpass Crocodile, but not at Alabasta.

There is no planet in which you can argue Luffy being on Croc's overall level.


All Warlords are post-TS Luffy level or higher.

 

[thisnewtechnique]

Against Doflamingo I agree, with G4 he was clearly above and the previous battle show, even if Doflamingo tried to stall, he would lose in the end because Luffy would find a hole in the end as he did with Leo Bazooka.

Against Katakuri is simple different, Katakuri changed his fight and later didn't used his Mogura again(probably of Guilty), also Luffy admit and asked Katakuri if he could use Snakeman or not, in that moment it was simple, if Katakuri would be against it, Luffy would lose that battle, that was all or nothing for Luffy.

So in a real battle where Katakuri stopping Luffy of using G4, it clearly show he wouldn't be able to win, Luffy way equal to Kata but clearly not stronger. Only with adv CoA and his full training in wano, he became stronger.

Against Kaido it is also hard to judge, similar to Katakuri case. Yes Luffy strongest Attack and raw power surpassed Kaido strongest move but however, Kaido literally dominated G5 even until the end with his drunken Mod.
Check up how much Luffy hit Drunken hybrid Kaido and how much the opposite hit Luffy.

Drunken Hybrid Kaido had clearly the upperhand and if he wanted it he could dodge Baijrung Gun, so this is also hard to dodge.

Law got stronger after wano as we saw against Teach where his haki was clearly far stronger.

So End Of Wano Luffy was probably little weaker than Kaido, but Egghead Luffy probably equal duo getting stronger.

In wano Luffy didn't surpassed Kaido in overall category, but in Egghead he should be at least on his lvl or even above.

So as you see Luffy don't always surpass his opponents at whole, fightstyle in the end matters.

Luffy grabbed Kaido, he wouldn't escape in any condiction

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

There is no planet in which you can argue Luffy being on Croc's overall level.

Argue? It was in the manga. Preskip Luffy only loses if he has no access to water or some liquid substitute.

 

[MonsterKaido]

--No. Given his G5 time limit , luffy is not stronger than Kaido. For that matter I will rank Kaido higher as luffy's time limit is big negative.

--I also have Kata above pre-udon luffy.

--Doffy is debatable as G4 was dominating doffy most of the fight. Comparing that to Kaido where Kaido was having upper hand against G5 before BG.

 

[Albino 👑]

People acting like they don’t understand how g4/5 works

Both gears are last resort forms. The only time he really uses them is

1. He’s done everything he can to weaken his opponents without them
2. He’s on a time crunch and needs to try and get things over with as quick as possible

Y’all are being mad disingenuous pretending luffy would use either form off the bat in a normal fight. In a straight 1v1 with no outside situations whether it’s kaido or kizaru he’s never going to just jump to g4/5 off the bat

 

[MonsterKaido]

Both gears are last resort forms. The only time he really uses them is

1. He’s done everything he can to weaken his opponents without them
2. He’s on a time crunch and needs to try and get things over with as quick as possible

Y’all are being mad disingenuous pretending luffy would use either form off the bat in a normal fight. In a straight 1v1 with no outside situations whether it’s kaido or kizaru he’s never going to just jump to g4/5 off the bat

What? Luffy instantly used G5 against lucci. Instantly used G4 and G5 against Kizaru. Used G4 against a number etc.

 

[Albino 👑]

What? Luffy instantly used G5 against lucci. Instantly used G4 and G5 against Kizaru. Used G4 against a number etc.

Ask yourself why

1. He didn’t want to waste time fighting Lucci
2. He was in a rush to protect vegapunk and escape egghead
3. Again in a rush

I doubt you genuinely believe luffy needed g5 against Lucci or g4 against the number

Like I said in a normal fight when luffy is in a normal fight with no outside situations going on he doesn’t jump into g4/5 until he exhausts everything else

 

[MonsterKaido]

Ask yourself why

1. He didn’t want to waste time fighting Lucci
2. He was in a rush to protect vegapunk and escape egghead
3. Again in a rush

I doubt you genuinely believe luffy needed g5 against Lucci or g4 against the number

Like I said in a normal fight when luffy is in a normal fight with no outside situations going on he doesn’t jump into g4/5 until he exhausts everything else

Doesn't change the fact that luffy uses his gears as he likes and not sparingly. He could have negged lucci in base by simply using adv coc but still used G5 proving my point.

 

[Albino 👑]

Doesn't change the fact that luffy uses his gears as he likes and not sparingly. He could have negged lucci in base by simply using adv coc but still used G5 proving my point.

It does because that’s just not true lol
If you just go back and read you’ll realize luffy was in a rush to leave against both Lucci and kizaru. He’s not jumping to gear 4/5 if that wasn’t the case
Man barely used conquerors in the arc in general even against kizaru or the gorosei so that really isn’t an argument


Hell even in the kaido fight the only reason he went g4 of the bat was because he knew he had people to protect him when it ran out. When he was solo he only used it as a last resort
Luffy’s not as dumb as you want him to be

 

[MonsterKaido]

It does because that’s just not true lol
If you just go back and read you’ll realize luffy was in a rush to leave against both Lucci and kizaru. He’s not jumping to gear 4/5 if that wasn’t the case
Man barely used conquerors in the arc in general even against kizaru or the gorosei so that really isn’t an argument


Hell even in the kaido fight the only reason he went g4 of the bat was because he knew he had people to protect him when it ran out. When he was solo he only used it as a last resort
Luffy’s not as dumb as you want him to be

Bro giving excuses won't change the reality lol. You giving n number of reasons why luffy used G4 or G5.

Answer me can't luffy beat lucci fast had he only used adv coc in base? Stop the cap.

 

[Dcbluffy]

People acting like they don’t understand how g4/5 works

Both gears are last resort forms. The only time he really uses them is

1. He’s done everything he can to weaken his opponents without them
2. He’s on a time crunch and needs to try and get things over with as quick as possible

Y’all are being mad disingenuous pretending luffy would use either form off the bat in a normal fight. In a straight 1v1 with no outside situations whether it’s kaido or kizaru he’s never going to just jump to g4/5 off the bat

someone actually remembered luffy doesn’t use his strongest gears unless he needs to or like u said a time crunch people make it seem like gear 5 is his base form or something forgetting he went toe to toe w the wsc n his base form

 

[Albino 👑]

Bro giving excuses won't change the reality lol. You giving n number of reasons why luffy used G4 or G5.

Answer me can't luffy beat lucci fast had he only used adv coc in base? Stop the cap.

Excuses aka the manga
The same way people getting mad at the admirals like Kuzan or Borsalino being mentally nerfed isn’t going to change the fact they were. Getting upset luffy isn’t as dumb as you want him to be and won’t start a serious 1v1 fight with g4/5 isn’t going to change the fact he doesn’t

Again he was barely using conquerors haki against kizaru or the gorosei. It was emphasized by Jinbe, sentomaru, and luffy himself they were in a rush
Also wait please don’t tell me you genuinely believe luffy requires g5 to fight lucci

someone actually remembered luffy doesn’t use his strongest gears unless he needs to or like u said a time crunch people make it seem like gear 5 is his base form or something forgetting he went toe to toe w the wsc n his base form

People are just pretending to forget that luffy even without g4/5 was able to give kaido a run for his money

Mainly due to luffy spamming g5 in egghead due to the dire situation. But people are going to ignore the why for agenda
Why ask why something is happening when you can just judge using as little context as possible

 

[MonsterKaido]

Excuses aka the manga
The same way people getting mad at the admirals like Kuzan or Borsalino being mentally nerfed isn’t going to change the fact they were. Getting upset luffy isn’t as dumb as you want him to be and won’t start a serious 1v1 fight with g4/5 isn’t going to change the fact he doesn’t

Again he was barely using conquerors haki against kizaru or the gorosei. It was emphasized by Jinbe, sentomaru, and luffy himself they were in a rush
Also wait please don’t tell me you genuinely believe luffy requires g5 to fight lucci


People are just pretending to forget that luffy even without g4/5 was able to give kaido a run for his money

Mainly due to luffy spamming g5 in egghead due to the dire situation. But people are going to ignore the why for agenda
Why ask why something is happening when you can just judge using as little context as possible

Bro legit denying manga and making up excuses

 

[Albino 👑]

Bro legit denying manga and making up excuses

??
Do you deadass believe luffy needed g5 to fight Lucci

 

[MonsterKaido]

??
Do you deadass believe luffy needed g5 to fight Lucci

??

The point isn't that he needs it. The point is that he used it moron

Why didn't he used adv coc in base to take out lucci quickly then?

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Whether it was croc

Katakuri

Or kaido the whole point of those fights were for luffy to surpass them. Sure you can argue that when they return they come back stronger than their previous selves

• Luffy left alabasta stronger or at worst equal than alabasta crocodile
• Luffy left wci stronger or at worst equal than wci katakuri
• Luffy left wano stronger or at worst equal than wano kaido

Lucci is a similar situation but in this case luffy gained the power to do so before their fight aka gears. Tho obviously he had to push himself to his limits still to surpass him

There are exceptions tho with obviously opponents he doesn’t defeat at all but also Enel. Enel was way stronger than luffy overall but luffy just happened to be the perfect counter

As for cracker and Doflamingo they weren’t significantly stronger or at all stronger than luffy. At worst being on a comparable level and within reach of luffy

This only applies when he gets a serious fight in the following arc that allows him to etablish himself IMO
Luffy only clearly surpassed Doffy in WCI
Luffy only clearly surpassed Katakuri after Udon training
In Egghead he only got an inconclusive fight with a Kizaru that many (even non-admiral fans from what I'm seeing now) would agree was not in a his best mental state and hasn't managed to bring down a Gorosei either even If I believe he showed superiority as a fighter to Saturn.
If Luffy had a serious 1 vs 1 against an all out top tier in he might has been able to etablish himself as equal or superior to Wano Kaido, but as of now he has yet to show it.