Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Wait..you asked for it? Cause I can assure you that it was not a factor. We(not you) literally had a public discussion with other members on containing politics in one section. Don't get beside yourself.

Yes. Logical, since I asked for it.



And because the Brandolini law applies here, let me bring you back to the beginning:

> January 2023 - Page 19 of this thread

Around this time, I was seeing threads like "Stop making One Piece political" pop up and a whole lot of Bob threads about problematic subjects. I decided to make my political voice heard and create "The Left space". I wanted it to be a safe place for leftists to share their content and opinions.

This did not go well, and I noticed that it wasn't the right approach, so I deleted it to create a new left space that would be more open to contradiction, a more positive left plce. Directly, the thread was moved and merged in this thread, that was supposed to be the only political thread at the time. And since, there were other political threads still remaining, I got was a bit surprised I asked for my thread back:

Is the displacement of my thread into this general section your doing ?

Can someone explain me this ?

Because bringing the thread here makes it loses all purpose. Furthermore you guys know full well that this thread will not be talking about politic rather than random sh*tposting with occasional political discussions. And we can't have real discussion in a general thread. All the more where ALL current will be talking over each others.

The goal of my (new and safe) thread was to discuss around real concepts and make pedagogy + highlight posts. and have a way to centerize political content. This can't be done in here.

This moves feels like a way to reduce political discourse on this forum and confuse political leanings (a way to say, politic from all side is the same). A really shady move as there is no reasons to do that here.

So I ask: Can I have my thread back please ?

Which was refused by AL

no if you wanna talk politics then do it here or in those old threads

I replied that I would wait for the approval of the admins an explained that I couldn't stay in a place without a way to create political diversity:

Al Sama.. That's what I thought.. So its your doing.
If you don't mind, I will pass on your opinion which is specificaly (for reasons we both know) biased against me and ask the admin for their advice on the matter.

If they agree with you, I will accept it. But I will have to quit this forum as I can't participate in a system that don't understand the importance of having a diversity of political discourse, reduce political discourse by blending all politic together or literally censor it. Especially in a forum talking about a story as political as One Piece.

I then explained why having a political section was important here:

You literally moved an entire positive thread for no reasons while keeping others.. who are literally toxic. So yes, this is against me. Or at least, I'm the first blood here.

But I know the real reason: Since I started talking you've seen the development of political threads all over the place in this general section. Mostly in reaction. And the real problem is... you guys don't seems to want political debate on this forum. So you reduced it to one single thread.

This is, like I already explained multiple times, very problematic.

One Piece is not just a story, it's a engaged story. It comes from a context, it brings up subjects like systemic racism / Discriminations against minorities / Anti fascism etc. So, by reducing the political discourse you are reducing the capacities of people to recontextualize what they read in their story.

Something I was hoping to do with that thread.

Having a positive political section on such a pop culture forum can help us :

- Reduce toxic behavior such as the harassment I was a victim of a year ago
- Reduce Confusionnistic apolitical alt right rethoric
- Make people fall in love with politic again which means a more positive and better fanbase.

(I tagged TAC and Boggard on that)

A proposition not really liked by users:

This is not a political forum, we don't need multiple threads based around politics. Hence this general thread was made. I really feel like you'd be better off on an actual political forum tbh.

AL replied:

bogard won't response and I don't care what tac says

And since TAC intervened and didn't seem to mind having a multiple thread section for politics
>

Generally my view on the matter, I see no issues with multiple politics threads & this one coexisting. Certain users might not like the political threads but they aren't forced to engage with them.

I asked him this:

Exactly.
Then, do you think that I could have my thread back ?

Or I don't know.. A entire political/religion/controversial section could be a good idea too ..

To which he answered :

An entire section on politics/religion (I'll leave out to controversy as people would intentionally bait it with bad faith threads) might be the likely outcome. I can hide the section from appearing on the "What's new" portion of the forum so irritated parties can go on in ignorance.

I won't be able to do it today though, unfortunately. I'm heading out in an hour and I need to get ready. I'll also need to discuss it with the rest of the staff.

So.. Since he told me that he didn't have the time, I decided to stay and wait. (which some users transformed into "he said he would go but he never did")

Thanks ! Then I will wait.

Not without some resistance:

I'll keep merging them doesn't matter what tac says

you're one lucky son of a gun lol

And since the only thing to do was to wait and no one was talking, I decided (on the same page) to really bring the fire to this political general thread by creating a post about Hogward Legacy and Transphobia, post that started what this thread is today.

As no one is talking, let me grab the conversation for a moment. #ThePostThatStartedTheWar

So you all know that "Hogwarts Legacy" (the Harry Potter Universe's game) is coming up soon on february 10.

While I won't say to you "do not buy the game" (for reasons I will developp later) as you are all entitle to your opinions and choices of freetime, I think it's important to replace this game into its context.

First you must know one thing: People who worked on the game have already been paid. What you might not know on the other hand is that some people will receive money from copyright ownership. In short, the more the game will be sold, the more the money going to them. And among those people is - you guessed it - J K Rowling. Now I will talk about J K Rowling later but I want to talk about another subject first as I will try to be as inclusive as I can on this subject I will start at the basics:


Do you know who Transgender people are ?

It's okay if you don't, until a few years ago, I was completely oblivious to them and their struggles. First, a bit of basic:


As you may have understood here. It's important to separate sex and gender as those notion are scientifically and sociologically different.

Now, what being a Transgender really means ? I won't explain it to you, I will let Trans people tell you all about it:

From a science approach:


To a sociological approach:



It's important to understand that being Transgender is NOT a mental illness.


Therefore, all transgender people are VALID. They ALL deserve the same rights as Cisgender People. They deserve the same right as you and me.

-----

What is important here, is to understand that Trans people are DISCRIMINATED and OPPRESSED by our differents societies:

For diverse act of violence against trans people:


To people who are trying to criminilize Trans communities or those who help them through moral panics:

-----

This is where we need to talk about J K Rowling.

You see J K Rowling is now an well know anti Trans activist. She is what we call a "TERF", "a Trans-exclusionary radical feminist". "A person whose views on gender identity are considered hostile to transgender people, or who opposes social and political policies designed to be inclusive of transgender people."

Terf are known to be transphobe, this is not a news. But what is starting to become more concerning is the fact that this transphobe ideology (and JK Rowling as well as her followers) is starting to flirt with really DARK movements: the alt-right and fascist kinds.

(This following one is actually quite horrific)

------

This is where WE can have an influence:

You see, by refusing to finance those people, we are actually lessening the probabilities of those dark transphobes ideology to be shared. That's why it's important to understand where your money will go once you buy property owned by those type of people.

https://youtu.be/rdfNQIOIReU

This is not a thread meant to culpabilize you. You would be completely legitimate to buy a game like Hogward Legacy, after all it looks like a cool game and I would LOVE to play it also.. but...

At least, you have the context.

While it might be the best Harry Potter game. Buying that game, is beneficial to the anti trans politics.

Now, You have all the informations to make a good choice.

So.. I won't say I'm proud.. but I'm proud of the impact I had.

As you can see, by simple asking for more politicization and pushing the politicization of the debate, I pushed an idea (that was maybe in the making) to create more diversity in the political debate.

Now.. this is not finished, this section is still hidden. But let it shine and allow it to bleeds on One Piece's discussion and you might start to see a lot of very interesting discussions.


The political section was created mid september 2023. 1172 pages after this humble request.

>>

"Someone" created a whole sub-forum because Logiko asked for it

>>

to make echo chambers like

a safe place for left

a safe place for right

>>

@Logiko The politics & religion section is here

>>

Thanks you very much :)

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Yes. Logical, since I asked for it.



And because the Brandolini law applies here, let me bring you back to the beginning:

> January 2023 - Page 19 of this thread

Around this time, I was seeing threads like "Stop making One Piece political" pop up and a whole lot of Bob threads about problematic subjects. I decided to make my political voice heard and create "The Left space". I wanted it to be a safe place for leftists to share their content and opinions.

This did not go well, and I noticed that it wasn't the right approach, so I deleted it to create a new left space that would be more open to contradiction, a more positive left plce. Directly, the thread was moved and merged in this thread, that was supposed to be the only political thread at the time. And since, there were other political threads still remaining, I got was a bit surprised I asked for my thread back:



Which was refused by AL


I replied that I would wait for the approval of the admins an explained that I couldn't stay in a place without a way to create political diversity:


I then explained why having a political section was important here:

(I tagged TAC and Boggard on that)

A proposition not really liked by users:


AL replied:


And since TAC intervened and didn't seem to mind having a multiple thread section for politics
>


I asked him this:


To which he answered :


So.. Since he told me that he didn't have the time, I decided to stay and wait. (which some users transformed into "he said he would go but he never did")


Not without some resistance:







And since the only thing to do was to wait and no one was talking, I decided (on the same page) to really bring the fire to this political general thread by creating a post about Hogward Legacy and Transphobia, post that started what this thread is today.



So.. I won't say I'm proud.. but I'm proud of the impact I had.

As you can see, by simple asking for more politicization and pushing the politicization of the debate, I pushed an idea (that was maybe in the making) to create more diversity in the political debate.

Now.. this is not finished, this section is still hidden. But let it shine and allow it to bleeds on One Piece's discussion and you might start to see a lot of very interesting discussions.


The political section was created mid september 2023. 1172 pages after this humble request.

>>

>>

>>

>>

Soon

 

[Mathias]

So I never sided with big corporation, but with the right of people to be able to access the information they want without restriction. Some people use twitter out of necessity. Banning twitter is one thing that I can understand, banning VPNs is dangerous for the freedom.

Can we have discussions without deforming the rethoric of others... please people ?

I don't think twitter is necessary for accessing information at all. I don't use it and I consider myself fairly well informed. Just gotta read the newspaper and whatnot. And in the end were VPNs banned in Brazil ?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I don't think twitter is necessary for accessing information at all. I don't use it and I consider myself fairly well informed. Just gotta read the newspaper and whatnot. And in the end were VPNs banned in Brazil ?

Social media is the worst way to stay informed. It breeds ignorance

 

[AL sama]

Soon

bruh why do you give wrong impressions

 

[Logiko]

blame tac for giving him that impression

I told logiko a few times that tac didn't decide things alone but I didn't explain things properly

Well.. I'm only saying what I see...



That horizontal hierarchy that you have is not really a bad thing. It's actually quite cool. But the problem is that it makes it very hard for big change to happens as shown through this example if you have people going straight up against it.

I didn't know about the discussions but if my humble proposition was the start of it to implemented this section, I'm really proud of it. I don't care about having or not having an impact, it's cool regardless, but I would prefered not to have to say anything.

I don't think twitter is necessary for accessing information at all.

People in difficult situation sometime use twitter to spread information anonymously. I just saw this thread a few weeks back about a young man of a very highly oppressed minority in France talking about the fact that without twitter, he would be in a dire situation.

It's not always about staying informed. It's also about the connection to other that it provides.

 

[AL sama]

Well.. I'm only saying what I see...

did I say it was on you??

I said tac gave you the wrong impression and I didn't explain things properly to you

 

[Daniel]

Brazilian supreme court is going after conservatives voicing their opinions online. Elon refused to comply with their illegal actions, so they banned twitter. The first victim was actually rumble,it has being banned for over a a year now.

This is news that I haven't heard of. If it was a legitimately big deal someone on Youtube would have covered it unless attempts at doing so have been blocked by the Brazilian government, but I'm expect anything to happen when it comes to left governments and censorship of media.

Something being illegal =/= people in power can't find ways around it somehow.

You think conservatives in Brazil may get law enforcement after them somehwhere down the line?

 

[Mathias]

People in difficult situation sometime use twitter to spread information anonymously. I just saw this thread a few weeks back about a young man of a very highly oppressed minority in France talking about the fact that without twitter, he would be in a dire situation.

It's not always about staying informed. It's also about the connection to other that it provides.

Journalists who say "bad" things against Trump get banned from twitter by Elon nowadays...

If someone posts valuable stuff on twitter, this will hit the news. I mean whistleblowers don't use twitter so I don't even know what you're talking about to be honest.

It has everything to do with free speech. they arrested 0 left wing journalists/influencers. They label right wing guys as fake news spreaders and get them cancelled and later on arrested. Imagine being so ignorant that you side with dictators...wait, that is what left wingers have always done.

Are you the same genius who thinks that Senates and whatnot get stormed in by left-wingers in the US and Brazil ?

Far-right wingers are terrorists

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Yes. Logical, since I asked for it.



And because the Brandolini law applies here, let me bring you back to the beginning:

> January 2023 - Page 19 of this thread

Around this time, I was seeing threads like "Stop making One Piece political" pop up and a whole lot of Bob threads about problematic subjects. I decided to make my political voice heard and create "The Left space". I wanted it to be a safe place for leftists to share their content and opinions.

This did not go well, and I noticed that it wasn't the right approach, so I deleted it to create a new left space that would be more open to contradiction, a more positive left plce. Directly, the thread was moved and merged in this thread, that was supposed to be the only political thread at the time. And since, there were other political threads still remaining, I got was a bit surprised I asked for my thread back:



Which was refused by AL


I replied that I would wait for the approval of the admins an explained that I couldn't stay in a place without a way to create political diversity:


I then explained why having a political section was important here:

(I tagged TAC and Boggard on that)

A proposition not really liked by users:


AL replied:


And since TAC intervened and didn't seem to mind having a multiple thread section for politics
>


I asked him this:


To which he answered :


So.. Since he told me that he didn't have the time, I decided to stay and wait. (which some users transformed into "he said he would go but he never did")


Not without some resistance:







And since the only thing to do was to wait and no one was talking, I decided (on the same page) to really bring the fire to this political general thread by creating a post about Hogward Legacy and Transphobia, post that started what this thread is today.



So.. I won't say I'm proud.. but I'm proud of the impact I had.

As you can see, by simple asking for more politicization and pushing the politicization of the debate, I pushed an idea (that was maybe in the making) to create more diversity in the political debate.

Now.. this is not finished, this section is still hidden. But let it shine and allow it to bleeds on One Piece's discussion and you might start to see a lot of very interesting discussions.


The political section was created mid september 2023. 1172 pages after this humble request.

>>

>>

>>

>>

Why u quit Mafia when you love digging up posts from over a year ago? You'd be a natural lol.

 

[AL sama]

Journalists who say "bad" things against Trump get banned from twitter by Elon nowadays...

eh really??

people get banned on twitter these days as far as I know

 

[Mathias]

eh really??

Yes. "Anti-Trump" or "anti-Elon" tweets are dangerous for billionaire's interests

 

[AL sama]

Why u quit Mafia when you love digging up posts from over a year ago? You'd be a natural lol.

mafia requires more than that tbh

can he pocket people or tell a good lie or go with the flow?? I don't think so

 

[Daniel]

Social media is the worst way to stay informed. It breeds ignorance

It's one of those methods of spreading news that the major news outlets won't cover. Useful for learning about info that's hard to find elsewhere online.

But...it's not a stretch to say that a platform for sharing online is going to be used by people to post memes and brainrot

 

[NAMELESS]

Journalists who say "bad" things against Trump get banned from twitter by Elon nowadays...

If someone posts valuable stuff on twitter, this will hit the news. I mean whistleblowers don't use twitter so I don't even know what you're talking about to be honest.



Are you the same genius who thinks that Senates and whatnot get stormed in by left-wingers in the US and Brazil ?

Far-right wingers are terrorists

Clown post! Left wings group do that in Brazil all the time(especially MST) and no major arrests like the one in January 8 were ever made. That episode was clearly a set up by left to arrest protesters and discourage further protests. Multiple individual affiliated with left wing organizations were spotted among the crowd, many of them initiated or took part in the vandalism acts. Black block/Antifa tatics 101.

Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2024

This is news that I haven't heard of. If it was a legitimately big deal someone on Youtube would have covered it unless attempts at doing so have been blocked by the Brazilian government, but I'm expect anything to happen when it comes to left governments and censorship of media.

Something being illegal =/= people in power can't find ways around it somehow.

You think conservatives in Brazil may get law enforcement after them somehwhere down the line?

Bro, we have two decades of corruption and scandals. Good luck trying to find anything on youtube. The media gives 2 shits about what happens in Brazil. Most of what you will see is left wing propaganda showcasing Lula and the laborers party in a good light. As for law enforcement, it has being happening for about 5 years now. Many conservatives are behind bars for denouncing corruption and voicing opinions.

 

[Mathias]

Clown post! Left wings group do that in Brazil all the time(especially MST) and no major arrests like the one in January 8 were ever made. That episode was clearly a set up by left to arrest protesters and discourage further protests. Multiple individual affiliated with left wing organizations were spotted among the crowd, many of them initiated or took part in the vandalism acts. Black block/Antifa tatics 101.

 

[Logiko]

did I say it was on you??

I said tac gave you the wrong impression and I didn't explain things properly to you

It's ok. I know now. You have discussions and it's really cool.

My problem on the other hand doesn't change, there are just more people in the balance of the descision making.

Journalists who say "bad" things against Trump get banned from twitter by Elon nowadays...

If someone posts valuable stuff on twitter, this will hit the news. I mean whistleblowers don't use twitter so I don't even know what you're talking about to be honest.

No mate. it will not hit the news. There is a reason why the TV in France is pro Israel while #GazaGenocide is trending everyday on twitter. For people who are really informed, and are connected to other informed people : scientists / researchers / activists / Journalist... twitter is a relevant bypass to mainstream informations.

I inform myself on daily subjects mainly through the AFP which allows me to avoid the propaganda of multiple mainstream media on multiple subjects. The rest are informations directly shared by specialists. I then clash those informations with the ones of mainstream medias, and that's how I know that there is a problem of representation. I much more informed today that when I was reading both Le Monde's, Le Figaro's and Liberation's RSS.

The knowledge and visibility I have on minorities right now is ONLY due to twitter: https://knightfoundation.org/features/twittermedia/

Without that, I would have almost no representations and no opinion from those minorities. But of course, for that, you need to have a good feed, put the effort into searching for good representations and people and do what I explained here:

Why u quit Mafia when you love digging up posts from over a year ago? You'd be a natural lol.

I loved the first game, but the second with 50 players was impossible to follow when there was 10 pages a day. Despite the impression I make, I do not spend my time here lol, I only leave a tab open for notifications.

 

[NAMELESS]

Well, at least you are self aware about your ignorance regarding Brazilian matters. If you can't understand Portuguese, you have 0 reliable sources about what happens in Brazil. Cry.

 

[Mathias]

Well, at least you are self aware about your ignorance regarding Brazilian matters. If you can't understand Portuguese, you have 0 reliable sources about what happens in Brazil. Cry.

I know your country better than you

No mate. it will not hit the news. There is a reason why the TV in France is pro Israel while #GazaGenocide is trending everyday on twitter. For people who are really informed, and are connected to other informed people : scientists / researchers / activists / Journalist... twitter is a relevant bypass to mainstream informations.

I inform myself on daily subjects mainly through the AFP which allows me to avoid the propaganda of multiple mainstream media on multiple subjects. The rest are informations directly shared by specialists. I then clash those informations with the ones of mainstream medias, and that's how I know that there is a problem of representation. I much more informed today that when I was reading both Le Monde's, Le Figaro's and Liberation's RSS.

The knowledge and visibility I have on minorities right now is ONLY due to twitter: https://knightfoundation.org/features/twittermedia/

Without that, I would have almost no representations and no opinion from those minorities. But of course, for that, you need to have a good feed, put the effort into searching for good representations and people and do what I explained here:


I loved the first game, but the second with 50 players was impossible to follow when there was 10 pages a day. Despite the impression I make, I do not spend my time here lol, I only leave a tab open for notifications.

I didn't have the tv in mind when I said "hitting the news". And lol you read LeFigaro in the past.

Anyway, okay "good feed" I guess.

 

[NAMELESS]

I know your country better than you



I didn't have the tv in mind when I said "hitting the news". And lol you read LeFigaro in the past.

Anyway, okay "good feed" I guess.

Neither did i. The only reliable sources are honest people that work in the government somehow. You won't find them in any news channel and rarely in social media. Again, you guys don't have any good sources of news about Brazil. Tvs and radios down here need a government license to go on air. Prior to the internet days, the government had total monopoly on information broadcasting. That is why we still have a left wing problem, too many old farts still voting left,watching tv and listening to radios. In about 20 years, there will be a major shift in this country. The left has being losing most elections since 2019(aside from the presidential race ofc). Younger generation are not conservative per say, but there is a very strong anti-left sentiment. Not all hope is lost, but i'm not counting with that. This is why i'm moving to a nation that is run by the right for about 80 years.