Kanmei is stronger then Man'u
- Thread starter Cichy
- Start date
The beginning of their fight is not my concern
They fought equally, blow for blow matching each other, Moubu even broke his mace towards the end
Worst case scenario he's equal to Kanmei, but really he's stronger, the last moments of their clash portrayed that well
Moubu won this clash clear as day, his strength surpassed Kanmei's
Kanmei was sweating bullets pulling his sword knowing he's about to get fucked
The beginning of their fight is not my concern
They fought equally, blow for blow matching each other, Moubu even broke his mace towards the end
Worst case scenario he's equal to Kanmei, but really he's stronger, the last moments of their clash portrayed that well
Moubu won this clash clear as day, his strength surpassed Kanmei's
Kanmei was sweating bullets pulling his sword knowing he's about to get fucked
Phase 1: Kanmei buttfucked him
Phase 2: They fought equally
Phase 3: Moubu won because Kanmei’s weapon broke and Mouten got injured which amped Moubu
I’m not sure how Kanmei’s weapon breaking proves Moubu is stronger than him??? Lmfao
@Cichy
I think its misleading of your argument to emphasize Mou Bu being knocked back by Kan Mei as if its a superior showing even though Mou Bu's soldiers point out how even Kan Mei was unable to knock Mou Bu off of his horse in the manga. Implying the opposite of what your argument does.
I think its misleading of your argument to emphasize Mou Bu being knocked back by Kan Mei as if its a superior showing even though Mou Bu's soldiers point out how even Kan Mei was unable to knock Mou Bu off of his horse in the manga. Implying the opposite of what your argument does.
Because Kanmei already performed a superior feat of strength - sending Moubu flying together with his horse. If Kanmei can do that then there's no reason to believe he doesn't have enough power to put Moubu on the ground if he swinged at him from the right angle.
We don't know if this version of Moubu was already 100, since that stat represents him after this war. He very well might have entered the fight as a 99.
He never said that the blade would break immidiately, so there's always a possibility that a fresh weapon would prolong the fight at least somewhat.
Ok, so?
If we compare only the feats of the early portions of Kanmei vs Moubu fight to the enitre Man'u vs Moubu fight, then Kanmei's feats still look superior. In fact Man'u looked worse as the fight was progressing, so I can't imagine a longer fight benefiting his potrayal.
Last edited:
I wonder if Moubu’s almost-shattered glaive would have shattered Kanmei’s sword if they clashed with momentum.
I’ve never seen their rivalry as being a case where moubu must continue to get stronger in order to surpass the stronger enemy. It was just a set up fight of two monsters with differing beliefs. Man’u absolutely looked superior but there’s a story to tell and it’s just to hype up their rematch. We will see which of them is right or wrong in future.
Post automatically merged:
I’ve never seen their rivalry as being a case where moubu must continue to get stronger in order to surpass the stronger enemy. It was just a set up fight of two monsters with differing beliefs. Man’u absolutely looked superior but there’s a story to tell and it’s just to hype up their rematch. We will see which of them is right or wrong in future.
Last edited:
So they did fight equally eventually what’s your point, we are not talking about pre coalition Moubu
Kanmei’s weapon broke because Moubu produced more force than him as simple as that
Kanmei’s weapon broke because Moubu produced more force than him as simple as that
Anyway the fact of the matter is that Man’U utterly scrubified Moubu while admitting inferiority to Kanmei. Moubu looked like the student getting schooled by the master at the end of the Man’U fight.
How is that not simply arguing against the material? Feel it'd make even less sense to suggest that a soldier in the manga that has followed Mou Bu closely since the Coalition (at the very least) wouldn't understand the different implications of getting knocked off your horse, or getting knocked back.
The stats released less than a year after this battle in story. Mou Bu was already a 99 at least 9 years before that battle. If we're leaning towards either assumption the more logical one would be the stat closest to that battle. Doesn't make too much sense to assume he only grew after a battle that you believe didn't even last that long.
Certainly wouldn't make sense to argue that Mou Bu didn't in fact get stronger at that point despite that battle happening 6 years after the Coalition.
Surely you realize that's not a reasonable possibility to argue by any means.
Kan Mei said that using his sword would "just" result in a broken blade. As in "only", "no more than", "at most", etc.
Not that it would in fact only break after a prolonged exchange.
Except we have characters in the story saying otherwise. Man'u maintained a consistently dominant performance throughout the fight. To the point that even Mou Bu's soldiers doubted that Man'u was actually weaker than Kan Mei.
So not sure where that reasoning is coming from.
The stats released less than a year after this battle in story. Mou Bu was already a 99 at least 9 years before that battle. If we're leaning towards either assumption the more logical one would be the stat closest to that battle. Doesn't make too much sense to assume he only grew after a battle that you believe didn't even last that long.
Certainly wouldn't make sense to argue that Mou Bu didn't in fact get stronger at that point despite that battle happening 6 years after the Coalition.
Surely you realize that's not a reasonable possibility to argue by any means.
Kan Mei said that using his sword would "just" result in a broken blade. As in "only", "no more than", "at most", etc.
Not that it would in fact only break after a prolonged exchange.
Except we have characters in the story saying otherwise. Man'u maintained a consistently dominant performance throughout the fight. To the point that even Mou Bu's soldiers doubted that Man'u was actually weaker than Kan Mei.
So not sure where that reasoning is coming from.
kanmei’s mace breaking first was symbolic of how Moubu just barely won, as his was on the brink too.
Moubu has that burden grasped. I don’t think his feeling for SHK is weaker now than it will be in 5 years. The duel was never settled. Moubu will win, probably coming from behind to do so as that’s a standard way fights happen for the protagonist. He’ll dig deeper and pull it out.
Post automatically merged:
Moubu has that burden grasped. I don’t think his feeling for SHK is weaker now than it will be in 5 years. The duel was never settled. Moubu will win, probably coming from behind to do so as that’s a standard way fights happen for the protagonist. He’ll dig deeper and pull it out.
This statement about Man'u being weaker than Kanmei (directly stated by Man'u himself, unless it was meant as a taunt to psychologically irritate Moubu) makes sense when looking at his stats, but the fight between him and Moubu seems to contradict this, unless there is some kind of alternate "power-up" that Man'u possesses, giving him strength comparable to the accumulated weight of a general in battle, but the source of that strength directly contrasts with it.
This is Hara's writing style.
The first battle Moubu against Kanmei:
Kanmei knocked Moubu unconscious on the horse, then Kanmei suddenly said too much nonsense, allowing Moubu time to recover and counterattack.
-> Kanmei died
The second battle, Moubu against Man'U
Man'U knocked Moubu down with just one blow, then Man'U suddenly fell into a "nothingness" state, he waited for Moubu to recover to continue fighting
-> Man'U was knocked off his horse by Moubu, then left.
What do both battles have in common? That is, the enemy kept falling into some strange situation, at first they overwhelmed Moubu, then they gave Moubu time to recover, Moubu could gain more "weight" from the flashback, he remembered his memories with Shouheikun, then immediately recovered and counterattacked.
So from their performance in the manga. The logical conclusion is :
The first battle Moubu against Kanmei:
Kanmei knocked Moubu unconscious on the horse, then Kanmei suddenly said too much nonsense, allowing Moubu time to recover and counterattack.
-> Kanmei died
The second battle, Moubu against Man'U
Man'U knocked Moubu down with just one blow, then Man'U suddenly fell into a "nothingness" state, he waited for Moubu to recover to continue fighting
-> Man'U was knocked off his horse by Moubu, then left.
What do both battles have in common? That is, the enemy kept falling into some strange situation, at first they overwhelmed Moubu, then they gave Moubu time to recover, Moubu could gain more "weight" from the flashback, he remembered his memories with Shouheikun, then immediately recovered and counterattacked.
So from their performance in the manga. The logical conclusion is :
- Raw physical strength: Kanmei > Moubu = Man'u.
- Initial attack power (gaining an advantage in the first encounter) : Man'U > Kanmei > MouBu.
- Recovery ability (if the enemy gives the opponent time to rest): Moubu > Kanmei = Man'U
Last edited:
Yeah, you better run away.
I think your original post was great and spot on for the reality of ManU- Moubu. However, I think this is the area I would have to disagree with you on.
The conflict between Moubu vs Man'U isn't of Moubu grasping the weight. He already has that weight grasped. Imo, the big issue between the two that Moubu needs to overcome to surpass Man' U is this:
Man'U at one point in life arguably had a bigger weight than Moubu on his shoulders. The burden of his whole kingdom from being conquered, resting upon primarly him, the hero of his kingdom, beloved and etc. But he then ended up killing the very people who gave him that weight. And those people all fought ManU knowing who he was. Betrayal of his burden. After that Betrayal Man'U discovers the concept of nothingness, where he feels liberated, he feels he's more powerful than before when the weight rested on his shoulders.
Moubu's weight (excluding weight of a general) comes from something related to Shouheikun. He has a grasp on that, hence he's able to boost himself with it. Man'U tells him about the burden of those who are alive and betrayal.... so... now historical spoilers:
Moubu can't be tested against Man'U until Shouheikun does his betrayal. When the burden that Moubu is carrying turns on him, what will he do?? The decision that Moubu makes then, is what imo will boost him over Man'U. Will his source of strength also come from nothingness then or will he find a stronger resolution/aim to fight for.
It didn't really on dawn me until recently but this concept Man'U introduced is pretty much the counter to the concept "fighting for a grander purpose" that made Renpa and Ouki look down on Gaimou and find him not worth their time for a duel.
But yea he probably will be Moubu's big fight for Chu arc, since there's also likely gonna be a larger storyline for Man'U himself at play with Karin-Chu.
The conflict between Moubu vs Man'U isn't of Moubu grasping the weight. He already has that weight grasped. Imo, the big issue between the two that Moubu needs to overcome to surpass Man' U is this:
Man'U at one point in life arguably had a bigger weight than Moubu on his shoulders. The burden of his whole kingdom from being conquered, resting upon primarly him, the hero of his kingdom, beloved and etc. But he then ended up killing the very people who gave him that weight. And those people all fought ManU knowing who he was. Betrayal of his burden. After that Betrayal Man'U discovers the concept of nothingness, where he feels liberated, he feels he's more powerful than before when the weight rested on his shoulders.
Moubu's weight (excluding weight of a general) comes from something related to Shouheikun. He has a grasp on that, hence he's able to boost himself with it. Man'U tells him about the burden of those who are alive and betrayal.... so... now historical spoilers:
Moubu can't be tested against Man'U until Shouheikun does his betrayal. When the burden that Moubu is carrying turns on him, what will he do?? The decision that Moubu makes then, is what imo will boost him over Man'U. Will his source of strength also come from nothingness then or will he find a stronger resolution/aim to fight for.
It didn't really on dawn me until recently but this concept Man'U introduced is pretty much the counter to the concept "fighting for a grander purpose" that made Renpa and Ouki look down on Gaimou and find him not worth their time for a duel.
But yea he probably will be Moubu's big fight for Chu arc, since there's also likely gonna be a larger storyline for Man'U himself at play with Karin-Chu.