Controversial Naruto is so clear of One Piece its not even close

Sir Yasheen

Sir Yasheen

‎
#61
#61
notAfanboy said:
Strong argument
I will just say we cant ignore the hardships and trauma that jinchurikis went through. Naruto's own mother was a victim. But it was through sacrifices and efforts of less privileged that Naruto got 9 Tails' power.


Mid argument

Sasuke changed because of Naruto and Itachi's efforts. A good chunk of the story was spent on convincing Sasuke. While it may seem incoherent, the author's efforts show otherwise. How can you say it was retconned when the author actively engaged other characters to change Sasuke and bring him to their side?


Weak argument

Power creep, even if I dont like it, is a part of shonen mangas.
Look at One Piece and flashy Haki beams now vs how Luffy fought pre TS.
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I don’t think comparing haki to the chakra mechas is at all fair. Haki may suck as a power system and it does, but chakra mechs completely took away the uniqueness of the fighting style and washed out all remnants of the ninja theme that the story was about. At the end of it I don’t think you can even call it a ninja manga and say what you want but that’s a very solid reason to note the stories decline. OP is still about piracy and treasure. Bleach ended still being about shinigami and swords. But Naruto did not end its story being about Ninja which was what drew many people in. Instead it ended its story as basically Dragonball Z with all this alien crap and powers that don’t follow the normal rules of ninjutsu that we enjoyed.

sasukes change was because of the retconning of the story. Itachis character as this tragic hero was very clearly not initially planned as it contradicts a lot of what we saw in the beginning and the retconning obito into that plot so as to introduce the fourth great ninja war story line did nothing but hurt sasukes character in my opinion. His goal became so cloudy that he felt significantly less engaging after itachis death.

Im not going to say the OP side cast is as engaging as they once were either. Most of them are not at all. However, as of now Oda hasn’t completely ruined their dreams and character motivations like Kishimoto did to Sasuke.

I’m not arguing with you, but you can’t say these aren’t valid criticism of Naruto when they’re very common ones.
 
notAfanboy

notAfanboy

‎
#62
#62
Sir Yasheen said:
I don’t think comparing haki to the chakra mechas is at all fair. Haki may suck as a power system and it does, but chakra mechs completely took away the uniqueness of the fighting style and washed out all remnants of the ninja theme that the story was about. At the end of it I don’t think you can even call it a ninja manga and say what you want but that’s a very solid reason to note the stories decline. OP is still about piracy and treasure. Bleach ended still being about shinigami and swords. But Naruto did not end its story being about Ninja which was what drew many people in. Instead it ended its story as basically Dragonball Z with all this alien crap and powers that don’t follow the normal rules of ninjutsu that we enjoyed.

sasukes change was because of the retconning of the story. Itachis character as this tragic hero was very clearly not initially planned as it contradicts a lot of what we saw in the beginning and the retconning obito into that plot so as to introduce the fourth great ninja war story line did nothing but hurt sasukes character in my opinion. His goal became so cloudy that he felt significantly less engaging after itachis death.

Im not going to say the OP side cast is as engaging as they once were either. Most of them are not at all. However, as of now Oda hasn’t completely ruined their dreams and character motivations like Kishimoto did to Sasuke.

I’m not arguing with you, but you can’t say these aren’t valid criticism of Naruto when they’re very common ones.
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These are your opinions bro, I have nothing against it.

There is no need to argue when you call all of the story retcon and label it as trash.

Sasuke became exactly what Itachi was, a shadow figure who protects village.
Hashirama wanted Madara to be that shadow figure.
Just this one example proves Sasuke became exactly what the author set up him to be towards the end.


Also, we got the most iconic fight; Guy vs Madara in the end. It was ninja fight, guy had no jutsus.

You cant say Kishimoto didnt know what he was doing. You may personally not like some developments and that's totally fine.
 
BoaHancocksHusband

BoaHancocksHusband

‎
#64
#64
notAfanboy said:
Strong argument
I will just say we cant ignore the hardships and trauma that jinchurikis went through. Naruto's own mother was a victim. But it was through sacrifices and efforts of less privileged that Naruto got 9 Tails' power.


Mid argument

Sasuke changed because of Naruto and Itachi's efforts. A good chunk of the story was spent on convincing Sasuke. While it may seem incoherent, the author's efforts show otherwise. How can you say it was retconned when the author actively engaged other characters to change Sasuke and bring him to their side?


Weak argument

Power creep, even if I dont like it, is a part of shonen mangas.
Look at One Piece and flashy Haki beams now vs how Luffy fought pre TS.
Click to expand...
Spitting
 
Johnny B. Decent

Johnny B. Decent

‎
#75
#75
While you can argue Naruto had better fights and more conventionally appealing character designs, it's storytelling and especially it's world-building is piss fucking poor.

See, the main flaw of the series is that the world of Naruto is ostensibly based around Sengoku Era Japan, but wherein other Ninja-themed works, said shinobi are elusive assassins and spies for their daimyo, everyone important is nothing *but* ninjas, and that just doesn't simply work. So, these so-called "hidden villages" are huge cities and the top ninja is the de facto head of their countries.

We only saw said Daimyo like once in the entire series, and they were ineffectual twats. And only one Land in the whole world had Samurai. Even their wars are explicitly called "Shinobi World Wars".

Now, so what should have seen shinobi as the elite, but small forces of a Daimyo, the villages are metropolitan capitals where the Kage is a king all but in name. And the idea of them serving people as mercenaries got thrown away as early as Zabuza. Essentially, the ninja became samurai as the army of each land, and that's just stupid.
 
BillSlipton

BillSlipton

‎
#76
#76
BoaHancocksHusband said:
Literally the only thing holding up Post TS at this point

also anime wise Naruto has better OST which fuels more emotion for the show. Name me anything in One Piece on the level of Shikamaru vs Hidan
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i feel nothing for OP now

thinking of going to rewatch Naruto again
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As someone who can't rewatch Naruto as it was my first anime that's been binged a million times... I'd rather watch Naruto than post ts one piece
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Johnny B. Decent said:
While you can argue Naruto had better fights and more conventionally appealing character designs, it's storytelling and especially it's world-building is piss fucking poor.

See, the main flaw of the series is that the world of Naruto is ostensibly based around Sengoku Era Japan, but wherein other Ninja-themed works, said shinobi are elusive assassins and spies for their daimyo, everyone important is nothing *but* ninjas, and that just doesn't simply work. So, these so-called "hidden villages" are huge cities and the top ninja is the de facto head of their countries.

We only saw said Daimyo like once in the entire series, and they were ineffectual twats. And only one Land in the whole world had Samurai. Even their wars are explicitly called "Shinobi World Wars".

Now, so what should have seen shinobi as the elite, but small forces of a Daimyo, the villages are metropolitan capitals where the Kage is a king all but in name. And the idea of them serving people as mercenaries got thrown away as early as Zabuza. Essentially, the ninja became samurai as the army of each land, and that's just stupid.
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There's definitely valid critiques. You didn't make any. Nothing you listed is actually a negative.
 
Johnny B. Decent

Johnny B. Decent

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#77
#77
BillSlipton said:
As someone who can't rewatch Naruto as it was my first anime that's been binged a million times... I'd rather watch Naruto than post ts one piece
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There's definitely valid critiques. You didn't make any. Nothing you listed is actually a negative.
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Except for how the series about ninja....is really bad at actually portraying ninjas.
 
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