Speculations Why I Believe Ryokugyu Forged His Own Black Blade

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#1
Hello everyone.

So now that it’s much clearer that Ryokugyu does in fact have a black blade,


I want to talk about why I believe Ryokugyu is the one who did forge this blade, and why I don’t believe some other third party is responsible for Ryokugyu’s sword being black. I want to consider this thread part 2 of my Ryokugyu’s Black Blade thread, and really I wanted to make this thread a long time ago but first we had to teach people the difference between black and white.

I think this thread has also aged much better now that we have more details on the Admirals as a faction.

You see, it was always pretty easy to see that Ryokugyu had a black blade, and none of the arguments as to why he actually didn’t have a black blade could’ve convinced even a kindergartener, however it is much more difficult to say that Green Bull himself actually turned the blade black. Green Bull could have just picked the blade up off of a corpse, right? Or someone he know could have achieved it and he now carries the the sword after their death or some shit, right?

Well, it’s obviously not possible at all to argue that Ryokugyu definitively turned this blade black himself. However, I want to argue why it is my strong belief that it was Ryokugyu himself who did this and it wasn’t some third party who achieved this for him. Now obviously we don’t have too much information from the actual One Piece series itself so this thread is going to be heavily speculation-based, but bear with me.

Let’s do this.

Part I: What exactly are the Admirals?

Have any of you ever heard of the irl Chinese General Guan Yu? (rhetorical question, don’t answer that)

I don’t know shit about Chinese History but I do know that Guan Yu is a legendary hero who was considered both one of the (if not the) single best military tacticians of his age, while also being a warrior on par with the legendary Lu Bu.

It would be insane enough if Guan Yu were only a warrior as strong as Lu Bu, or if Guan Yu was only the best military tactician of his era, but Guan Yu was literally both.

There has got to be a name for this trope of character both irl in fiction, however I am just going to call the Admirals variations on the “ambitious heroes”. Yes I just made that term up. What do I mean by this term? Well let’s just look at some examples who I believe are conceptually similar to the Admirals:


Radahn from Elden Ring is a General of the Golden Order who aspired to be the Elden Lord. When he was a child, Radahn was a fanboy of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord, and aspired to be a battlefield hero just like Godfrey some day.

When Elden Ring first came out, people thought that Godfrey was just explicitly more powerful than Radahn. He had to be, right? Radahn was a fanboy of Godfrey, and Radahn was never able to become the Elden Lord himself, so Godfrey must be more powerful than Radahn right?

Then the Elden Ring DLC came out and quite literally proved every single Radahn hater wrong. It turns out that Radahn was in fact widely considered by the strongest Demi Gods to be the next Elden Lord. Not only that, a young Radahn (not even a prime Radahn) also utilized the exact same fighting style that Godfrey himself did, which incorporated heavy stomping/earth shaking attacks and the “Lion” fighting arts like Lion’s Claw and other Godfrey esque techniques.

Not only was Radahn a warrior pretty much on par with Godfrey, but Radahn was also a master gravitational sorcerer. He mastered the sorcerous arts and used a hybrid Godfrey-mimicking / Gravity sorcerer fighting style.

Let’s not get too bogged down in the details of Elden Ring, for now let us just establish the facts about Radahn:
-At first People thought Radahn was weaker than Godfrey,
-In actuality Radahn is just Godfrey lite + Universal level gravitational sorcery.

Does this sound familiar?



Once upon a time, One Piece fans thought the Admirals were Enel tier fruit merchants, but then we find out that Kuzan, as Garp’s pupil and fanboy, mastered Garp’s fist style by training alongside Garp.
-People thought the Admirals were Yonko Commanders with Devil Fruits,
-In reality Aokiji is just Garp with a Logia

And I could literally stack this entire list with characters similar to Radahn and Aokiji in fiction.
-Kingdom is literally a manga full of characters who are top tier leaders, military minds, and martial warriors
-General Iron from Avatar the Last Airbender was among the absolute best Fire Benders of all time, while also being one of the best military minds of all time, while also inventing his own colossally high level Fire Bending techniques such as lightning redirection
-Endeavor from MHA is the second strongest hero of all time while also being deductively literally the best hero who ever lived, while also being a superb teacher
-Darth Vader from Star Wars is one of the best force users ever, while also being an incredible warrior who also killed more Jedi than anyone ever (daily reminder that Star Wars is trash)
-Bruce Wayne is a master Ninja Warrior while also being the world’s greatest detective and also having high level knowledge of concepts such as engineering, chemistry, biology, etc….

I could keep this going but this is what I believe the Admirals are. They have mastered every relevant fighting style that they have trained in, even if it would seem like that would make them too powerful.

This isn’t even exclusive to the Admirals btw.


Nasujuro is an Awakened Mythical Zoan, he is also a weilder of a supreme blade with top tier swordsmanship, and he also has raw Haki rivaling the strength of Saint Shanks.



Kaido may not have achieved awakening (scrub) but he did wield a supreme blade-level Kanabo that he mastered, he also mastered his conqueror’s Haki, he also mastered observation Haki, and he also did master a lot of crazy techniques with his mythical Zoan devil fruit.

“The Ambitious Hero” is a character who has mastered everything they set their mind to master, even when it may seem shocking or unbelievably to believe that one character could master so many different things.

Tying this back to Green Bull:


I believe Ryokugyu is an awakened Logia while also being a swordsman on par with the likes of Ryuma or prime Rayleigh. There is already precedent for this to happen with Aokiji, who can punch like Garp while also terraforming a massive island like Punk Hazard permanently, while also knowing techniques like Soru and Barrier Haki, while also spending a lot of his time sleeping and not really training as often as other characters like, perhaps for example, Akainu.

Because this is what the Admirals are, they aren’t high level fighters who have mastered a fighting style or two, they are versatility kings who have mastered multiple fighting styles. This even applies to Garp. Garp wasn’t just Garp the Fist, Garp also mastered his own “throwing” style:



So even Garp the Fist is included here, he didn’t “just” master the Fist of Love, he also mastered other fighting styles as well.

Part II: Ryokugyu in Prison

As soon as we found out that Aramaki did time in prison, I knew it was over for Green Bull haters.

Sending characters to prison is one of the easiest ways to grant them big boy Powerups. Don’t believe me?






Now I’m pretty sure no one wants to hear me listing a bunch of other examples as to why sending characters to prison can be a huge catalyst for massive Powerups. And believe me, I could lmfao. Prison in action series can be used as a catalyst to produce some of the hardest motherfuckers in their respective series. We have seen examples of this in One Piece itself. A character like Bane for example (in his original iteration) became a threat level exceeding Batmanby the sole virtue of growing up in prison. Would Shiryu be as much of a threat as he is currently if he hadn’t done so much time in prison? Would the Ten Titanic Captains be as threatening as they currently are if half of them hadn’t done hard time?

Now you may be asking yourself: Lee, what the fuck does this have to do with achieving a black blade.

Well, Ryokugyu doing hard time in the clink further serves to characterize him as a hard motherfucker who has had to earn a more Haki-based, less Devil Fruit based fighting style. This guy isn’t an Enel, like I said, I believe his Haki and base combat mastery is as high as his Devil fruit mastery, and he would have had to have learned the merits of such a fighting style in prison, when he either had no fruit or would have been seastone cuffed.

I don’t think Ryokugyu turned his blade black in prison because obviously that doesn’t make sense. However I do think Ryokugyu doing time in the clink, from a character writing standpoint, points to him being a hard motherfucker who has had to learn how to scrap for his own survival. Look at Luffy’s time in prison:

-Luffy was subject to hard manual labor
-Luffy was expected to fight for his life without access to his Devil fruit power, just his base fighting ability and Haki
-Luffy even learned the principals of a new form of Haki in prison

And Luffy was only in prison for like what? A week?

The fact that Aramaki seemingly did some hard time in prison definitely hypes him as a hard motherfucker who has had to learn to fight with his base body and his Haki, without his Devil fruit ability if he even had one back then, and would have accustomed to an extreme fight-or-die lifestyle of constant struggle.

Part III: What does Ryokugyu stealing/obtaining an already black blade say about his character?

So now I would like to juxtapose the type of character I believe Ryokugyu is, an “ambitious hero” character who has done hard time in prison, vs the type of character who didn’t actually forge his black blade but instead either stole it or received it from someone else.

Firstly, let’s discuss the idea that Ryokugyu stole his black blade or took it off of a corpse.

For it to make narrative sense that Aramaki took his black blade off of a corpse or “stole it”, Oda would have to have spent time characterizing Aramaki as the type of guy who steals the power of others.

This fits much more for a character like Blackbeard than it does for someone like Aramaki.

Blackbeard is the type of guy who has built a huge chunk of his reputation by stealing power from Whitebeard.


Blackbeard is the exact type of guy to take shortcuts in the process of gaining power for himself. He joined Whitebeard’s crew as a ruse, he stole Whitebeard’s own power for himself, he conquered Whitebeard’s territories, his crew isn’t really devoted to him in the same way that other crews are devoted to their own captains…it would have made far more sense if Blackbeard was the one who stole a Black Blade of, say,

Womp womp womp

Because Blackbeard is the type of character who steals power that he himself has not earned.

This isn’t how Oda has portrayed the Admirals or Aramaki. Aokiji didn’t “steal” Garp’s fighting style, he trained alongside Garp and mastered that style. Kizaru didn’t “steal” Sentomaru’s defense, he invented that style. Fujitora (presumably) didn’t steal his sword or his sword style, he mastered that style for himself.

So why all of the sudden would Ryokugyu be the type of character to steal someone else’s power?

Now, a lot of people will use this moment to argue that in the Film Ronin Gai, Aramaki picked up a sword off of a corpse. A scene literally so minuscule that I don’t recall it happening and will have to go rewatch the movie just to prove that it actually happened. So, a few things.

Aramaki from Ronin Gai is just an inspiration for Aramaki in One Piece first of all. They aren’t the same damn character lmfao. Second, Aramaki in the film uses like ten different swords in combat. He is literally, at the end of the film, throwing swords away after he cuts down too many men with them and switching to a brand new sword. Unless we see One Piece Aramaki doing something similar, the implication seems to be Aramaki fights with only one sword.

Secondly, arguing that Aramaki in OP must have picked his sword up off of a corpse because RG Aramaki apparently did, is like the equivalent of arguing that Fujitora will be a fist fighter because Zatoichi once punched a man.

Aramaki being the type of individual to steal someone else’s power is just not at all how he or the Admirals have been portrayed to be at any point in the manga. So Aramaki stealing or inheriting someone else’s black blade would serve only to introduce a completely new and unnecessary third party into the series for no reason other than to placate sword fans who don’t understand this manga to begin with.

This would effectively be the equivalent of Oda revealing that Mihawk found Yoru when it was already black. Who made Yoru black? Well it turns out that actually it was Shimotsuki Poozooloo the heir to the Shimotsuki clan in the fifth century post void century. What relevance does that have to Mihawk’s character? It degrades him by revealing that he never turned Yoru black and that he is instead leeching off of someone else’s hard work. What relevance does Poozooloo have to the plot? None at all.

Oda introducing Mihawk with a sword that he himself blackened is one of the ways that Oda tells us who Mihawk is as a character, because it is a very literal representation of his dedication, discipline, and history of battle as the only individual to ever to turn a supreme blade black.

Now, if Oda wanted to characterize Ryokugyu as someone who stole or inherited an already black blade, that’s great but the problem is that this is not at all how Oda has characterized Aramaki or the other Admirals.

If you asked me how Oda was characterizing the Admirals’ strength in one panel, it is this:


The Admirals are so fucking cool because they earned their incredible strength through training and experience. It wasn’t something they achieved by stealing someone else’s power.


Part IV: TLDR

Ryokugyu stealing or obtaining an already blackened blade flies in the face of how Oda has been characterizing him and the Admirals as a group.

Aramaki is an “ambitious hero” type character, a character who has mastered not just one but multiple top tier fighting styles, a hard motherfucker who has done hard time in prison. He has not been portrayed as the type of character who steals the power of others like Blackbeard, and introducing an unnecessary third party who turned the blade black serves no purpose other than to contradict how Aramaki and the Admirals have thus far been characterized.

My fellow Admiral fans might argue that I am setting myself up for disappointment in the event that Ryokugyu got his black blade from someone else, but most of my fellow Admiral fans also told me to drop the Aramaki black blade agenda entirely and my faith never wavered.

Time will tell if Aramaki turned his own blade black, or or if Shitsomuki Poozooloo of the Flashback style actually turned the blade black, but I am going to make the same pronunciation that I made originally: I am 99.9% confident that Ryokugyu turned the blade black himself and didn’t steal or inherit it.

Alright that’s enough from me. Let us set then Zolo fans up for their next ZKK/RBB sized L.

@SakazOuki @Kurozumi Wiwi @The White Crane @Wuuuke @silverfire @scoobie3 @AkainuTheGrimReaper @Apollo @Admiral Mou Bu @ZenZu @Extravlad @kurwa @haxxor @EmperorKinyagi @Blackbeard @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @God Buggy @Sentinel @Tyki_Mikk @Veku @Mr. Tuna Sandwich @GoldDiamond @Dragon777 @Weeman @Cadis Etrama Di Urek @Djordje @BaboonMihawk @Negan @The Buddha @Djordje @Germinator @DarkestKnightofSpoilers @[No Name] @King7
 
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#2
Good thread Lee I enjoyed reading it. Aramaki being awakened makes sense as he seems to fast and not eat for years like plant who gain nutrition from sunlight. Unlike Kaido who was a tyrant the complete opposite of his DF which is supposed to be a guardian deity that is good.
 
#3
Aramaki Gennai from Roningai is a near 1 to 1 inspiration for the character in multiple aspects. Greenbull having stole the blade is most likely. While that may be the case, following the film, Aramaki will prove himself to be a very proficient swordsman, so the people denying his skill with the blade will also be proven wrong. This should be more than enough for Admiral fans; powerful (possibly awakened) Logia, possible advanced haki and a black blade that he is skilled at using.
 
#5
Hello everyone.

So now that it’s much clearer that Ryokugyu does in fact have a black blade,


I want to talk about why I believe Ryokugyu is the one who did forge this blade, and why I don’t believe some other third party is responsible for Ryokugyu’s sword being black. I want to consider this thread part 2 of my Ryokugyu’s Black Blade thread, and really I wanted to make this thread a long time ago but first we had to teach people the difference between black and white.

I think this thread has also aged much better now that we have more details on the Admirals as a faction.

You see, it was always pretty easy to see that Ryokugyu had a black blade, and none of the arguments as to why he actually didn’t have a black blade could’ve convinced even a kindergartener, however it is much more difficult to say that Green Bull himself actually turned the blade black. Green Bull could have just picked the blade up off of a corpse, right? Or someone he know could have achieved it and he now carries the the sword after their death or some shit, right?

Well, it’s obviously not possible at all to argue that Ryokugyu definitively turned this blade black himself. However, I want to argue why it is my strong belief that it was Ryokugyu himself who did this and it wasn’t some third party who achieved this for him. Now obviously we don’t have too much information from the actual One Piece series itself so this thread is going to be heavily speculation-based, but bear with me.

Let’s do this.

Part I: What exactly are the Admirals?

Have any of you ever heard of the irl Chinese General Guan Yu? (rhetorical question, don’t answer that)

I don’t know shit about Chinese History but I do know that Guan Yu is a legendary hero who was considered both one of the (if not the) single best military tacticians of his age, while also being a warrior on par with the legendary Lu Bu.

It would be insane enough if Guan Yu were only a warrior as strong as Lu Bu, or if Guan Yu was only the best military tactician of his era, but Guan Yu was literally both.

There has got to be a name for this trope of character both irl in fiction, however I am just going to call the Admirals variations on the “ambitious heroes”. Yes I just made that term up. What do I mean by this term? Well let’s just look at some examples who I believe are conceptually similar to the Admirals:


Radahn from Elden Ring is a General of the Golden Order who aspired to be the Elden Lord. When he was a child, Radahn was a fanboy of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord, and aspired to be a battlefield hero just like Godfrey some day.

When Elden Ring first came out, people thought that Godfrey was just explicitly more powerful than Radahn. He had to be, right? Radahn was a fanboy of Godfrey, and Radahn was never able to become the Elden Lord himself, so Godfrey must be more powerful than Radahn right?

Then the Elden Ring DLC came out and quite literally proved every single Radahn hater wrong. It turns out that Radahn was in fact widely considered by the strongest Demi Gods to be the next Elden Lord. Not only that, a young Radahn (not even a prime Radahn) also utilized the exact same fighting style that Godfrey himself did, which incorporated heavy stomping/earth shaking attacks and the “Lion” fighting arts like Lion’s Claw and other Godfrey esque techniques.

Not only was Radahn a warrior pretty much on par with Godfrey, but Radahn was also a master gravitational sorcerer. He mastered the sorcerous arts and used a hybrid Godfrey-mimicking / Gravity sorcerer fighting style.

Let’s not get too bogged down in the details of Elden Ring, for now let us just establish the facts about Radahn:
-At first People thought Radahn was weaker than Godfrey,
-In actuality Radahn is just Godfrey lite + Universal level gravitational sorcery.

Does this sound familiar?



Once upon a time, One Piece fans thought the Admirals were Enel tier fruit merchants, but then we find out that Kuzan, as Garp’s pupil and fanboy, mastered Garp’s fist style by training alongside Garp.
-People thought the Admirals were Yonko Commanders with Devil Fruits,
-In reality Aokiji is just Garp with a Logia

And I could literally stack this entire list with characters similar to Radahn and Aokiji in fiction.
-Kingdom is literally a manga full of characters who are top tier leaders, military minds, and martial warriors
-General Iron from Avatar the Last Airbender was among the absolute best Fire Benders of all time, while also being one of the best military minds of all time, while also inventing his own colossally high level Fire Bending techniques such as lightning redirection
-Endeavor from MHA is the second strongest hero of all time while also being deductively literally the best hero who ever lived, while also being a superb teacher
-Darth Vader from Star Wars is one of the best force users ever, while also being an incredible warrior who also killed more Jedi than anyone ever (daily reminder that Star Wars is trash)
-Bruce Wayne is a master Ninja Warrior while also being the world’s greatest detective and also having high level knowledge of concepts such as engineering, chemistry, biology, etc….

I could keep this going but this is what I believe the Admirals are. They have mastered every relevant fighting style that they have trained in, even if it would seem like that would make them too powerful.

This isn’t even exclusive to the Admirals btw.


Nasujuro is an Awakened Mythical Zoan, he is also a weilder of a supreme blade with top tier swordsmanship, and he also has raw Haki rivaling the strength of Saint Shanks.



Kaido may not have achieved awakening (scrub) but he did wield a supreme blade-level Kanabo that he mastered, he also mastered his conqueror’s Haki, he also mastered observation Haki, and he also did master a lot of crazy techniques with his mythical Zoan devil fruit.

“The Ambitious Hero” is a character who has mastered everything they set their mind to master, even when it may seem shocking or unbelievably to believe that one character could master so many different things.

Tying this back to Green Bull:


I believe Ryokugyu is an awakened Logia while also being a swordsman on par with the likes of Ryuma or prime Rayleigh. There is already precedent for this to happen with Aokiji, who can punch like Garp while also terraforming a massive island like Punk Hazard permanently, while also knowing techniques like Soru and Barrier Haki, while also spending a lot of his time sleeping and not really training as often as other characters like, perhaps for example, Akainu.

Because this is what the Admirals are, they aren’t high level fighters who have mastered a fighting style or two, they are versatility kings who have mastered multiple fighting styles. This even applies to Garp. Garp wasn’t just Garp the Fist, Garp also mastered his own “throwing” style:



So even Garp the Fist is included here, he didn’t “just” master the Fist of Love, he also mastered other fighting styles as well.

Part II: Ryokugyu in Prison

As soon as we found out that Aramaki did time in prison, I knew it was over for Green Bull haters.

Sending characters to prison is one of the easiest ways to grant them big boy Powerups. Don’t believe me?






Now I’m pretty sure no one wants to hear me listing a bunch of other examples as to why sending characters to prison can be a huge catalyst for massive Powerups. And believe me, I could lmfao. Prison in action series can be used as a catalyst to produce some of the hardest motherfuckers in their respective series. We have seen examples of this in One Piece itself. A character like Bane for example (in his original iteration) became a threat level exceeding Batmanby the sole virtue of growing up in prison. Would Shiryu be as much of a threat as he is currently if he hadn’t done so much time in prison? Would the Ten Titanic Captains be as threatening as they currently are if half of them hadn’t done hard time?

Now you may be asking yourself: Lee, what the fuck does this have to do with achieving a black blade.

Well, Ryokugyu doing hard time in the clink further serves to characterize him as a hard motherfucker who has had to earn a more Haki-based, less Devil Fruit based fighting style. This guy isn’t an Enel, like I said, I believe his Haki and base combat mastery is as high as his Devil fruit mastery, and he would have had to have learned the merits of such a fighting style in prison, when he either had no fruit or would have been seastone cuffed.

I don’t think Ryokugyu turned his blade black in prison because obviously that doesn’t make sense. However I do think Ryokugyu doing time in the clink, from a character writing standpoint, points to him being a hard motherfucker who has had to learn how to scrap for his own survival. Look at Luffy’s time in prison:

-Luffy was subject to hard manual labor
-Luffy was expected to fight for his life without access to his Devil fruit power, just his base fighting ability and Haki
-Luffy even learned the principals of a new form of Haki in prison

And Luffy was only in prison for like what? A week?

The fact that Aramaki seemingly did some hard time in prison definitely hypes him as a hard motherfucker who has had to learn to fight with his base body and his Haki, without his Devil fruit ability if he even had one back then, and would have accustomed to an extreme fight-or-die lifestyle of constant struggle.

Part III: What does Ryokugyu stealing/obtaining an already black blade say about his character?

So now I would like to juxtapose the type of character I believe Ryokugyu is, an “ambitious hero” character who has done hard time in prison, vs the type of character who didn’t actually forge his black blade but instead either stole it or received it from someone else.

Firstly, let’s discuss the idea that Ryokugyu stole his black blade or took it off of a corpse.

For it to make narrative sense that Aramaki took his black blade off of a corpse or “stole it”, Oda would have to have spent time characterizing Aramaki as the type of guy who steals the power of others.

This fits much more for a character like Blackbeard than it does for someone like Aramaki.

Blackbeard is the type of guy who has built a huge chunk of his reputation by stealing power from Whitebeard.


Blackbeard is the exact type of guy to take shortcuts in the process of gaining power for himself. He joined Whitebeard’s crew as a ruse, he stole Whitebeard’s own power for himself, he conquered Whitebeard’s territories, his crew isn’t really devoted to him in the same way that other crews are devoted to their own captains…it would have made far more sense if Blackbeard was the one who stole a Black Blade of, say,

Womp womp womp

Because Blackbeard is the type of character who steals power that he himself has not earned.

This isn’t how Oda has portrayed the Admirals or Aramaki. Aokiji didn’t “steal” Garp’s fighting style, he trained alongside Garp and mastered that style. Kizaru didn’t “steal” Sentomaru’s defense, he invented that style. Fujitora (presumably) didn’t steal his sword or his sword style, he mastered that style for himself.

So why all of the sudden would Ryokugyu be the type of character to steal someone else’s power?

Now, a lot of people will use this moment to argue that in the Film Ronin Gai, Aramaki picked up a sword off of a corpse. A scene literally so minuscule that I don’t recall it happening and will have to go rewatch the movie just to prove that it actually happened. So, a few things.

Aramaki from Ronin Gai is just an inspiration for Aramaki in One Piece first of all. They aren’t the same damn character lmfao. Second, Aramaki in the film uses like ten different swords in combat. He is literally, at the end of the film, throwing swords away after he cuts down too many men with them and switching to a brand new sword. Unless we see One Piece Aramaki doing something similar, the implication seems to be Aramaki fights with only one sword.

Secondly, arguing that Aramaki in OP must have picked his sword up off of a corpse because RG Aramaki apparently did, is like the equivalent of arguing that Fujitora will be a fist fighter because Zatoichi once punched a man.

Aramaki being the type of individual to steal someone else’s power is just not at all how he or the Admirals have been portrayed to be at any point in the manga. So Aramaki stealing or inheriting someone else’s black blade would serve only to introduce a completely new and unnecessary third party into the series for no reason other than to placate sword fans who don’t understand this manga to begin with.

This would effectively be the equivalent of Oda revealing that Mihawk found Yoru when it was already black. Who made Yoru black? Well it turns out that actually it was Shimotsuki Poozooloo the heir to the Shimotsuki clan in the fifth century post void century. What relevance does that have to Mihawk’s character? It degrades him by revealing that he never turned Yoru black and that he is instead leeching off of someone else’s hard work. What relevance does Poozooloo have to the plot? None at all.

Oda introducing Mihawk with a sword that he himself blackened is one of the ways that Oda tells us who Mihawk is as a character, because it is a very literal representation of his dedication, discipline, and history of battle as the only individual to ever to turn a supreme blade black.

Now, if Oda wanted to characterize Ryokugyu as someone who stole or inherited an already black blade, that’s great but the problem is that this is not at all how Oda has characterized Aramaki or the other Admirals.

If you asked me how Oda was characterizing the Admirals’ strength in one panel, it is this:


The Admirals are so fucking cool because they earned their incredible strength through training and experience. It wasn’t something they achieved by stealing someone else’s power.


Part IV: TLDR

Ryokugyu stealing or obtaining an already blackened blade flies in the face of how Oda has been characterizing him and the Admirals as a group.

Aramaki is an “ambitious hero” type character, a character who has mastered not just one but multiple top tier fighting styles, a hard motherfucker who has done hard time in prison. He has not been portrayed as the type of character who steals the power of others like Blackbeard, and introducing an unnecessary third party who turned the blade black serves no purpose other than to contradict how Aramaki and the Admirals have thus far been characterized.

My fellow Admiral fans might argue that I am setting myself up for disappointment in the event that Ryokugyu got his black blade from someone else, but most of my fellow Admiral fans also told me to drop the Aramaki black blade agenda entirely and my faith never wavered.

Time will tell if Aramaki turned his own blade black, or or if Shitsomuki Poozooloo of the Flashback style actually turned the blade black, but I am going to make the same pronunciation that I made originally: I am 99.9% confident that Ryokugyu turned the blade black himself and didn’t steal or inherit it.

Alright that’s enough from me. Let us set then Zolo fans up for their next ZKK/RBB sized L.

@SakazOuki @Kurozumi Wiwi @The White Crane @Wuuuke @silverfire @scoobie3 @AkainuTheGrimReaper @Apollo @Admiral Mou Bu @ZenZu @Extravlad @kurwa @haxxor @EmperorKinyagi @Blackbeard @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @God Buggy @Sentinel @Tyki_Mikk @Veku @Mr. Tuna Sandwich @GoldDiamond @Dragon777 @Weeman @Cadis Etrama Di Urek @Djordje @BaboonMihawk @Negan @The Buddha @Djordje @Germinator @DarkestKnightofSpoilers @[No Name] @King7
Well said. Unlike Mihawk who painted his blade black, Ryo's is all natural like his DF. :myman:
 
#9
Hello everyone.

So now that it’s much clearer that Ryokugyu does in fact have a black blade,


I want to talk about why I believe Ryokugyu is the one who did forge this blade, and why I don’t believe some other third party is responsible for Ryokugyu’s sword being black. I want to consider this thread part 2 of my Ryokugyu’s Black Blade thread, and really I wanted to make this thread a long time ago but first we had to teach people the difference between black and white.

I think this thread has also aged much better now that we have more details on the Admirals as a faction.

You see, it was always pretty easy to see that Ryokugyu had a black blade, and none of the arguments as to why he actually didn’t have a black blade could’ve convinced even a kindergartener, however it is much more difficult to say that Green Bull himself actually turned the blade black. Green Bull could have just picked the blade up off of a corpse, right? Or someone he know could have achieved it and he now carries the the sword after their death or some shit, right?

Well, it’s obviously not possible at all to argue that Ryokugyu definitively turned this blade black himself. However, I want to argue why it is my strong belief that it was Ryokugyu himself who did this and it wasn’t some third party who achieved this for him. Now obviously we don’t have too much information from the actual One Piece series itself so this thread is going to be heavily speculation-based, but bear with me.

Let’s do this.

Part I: What exactly are the Admirals?

Have any of you ever heard of the irl Chinese General Guan Yu? (rhetorical question, don’t answer that)

I don’t know shit about Chinese History but I do know that Guan Yu is a legendary hero who was considered both one of the (if not the) single best military tacticians of his age, while also being a warrior on par with the legendary Lu Bu.

It would be insane enough if Guan Yu were only a warrior as strong as Lu Bu, or if Guan Yu was only the best military tactician of his era, but Guan Yu was literally both.

There has got to be a name for this trope of character both irl in fiction, however I am just going to call the Admirals variations on the “ambitious heroes”. Yes I just made that term up. What do I mean by this term? Well let’s just look at some examples who I believe are conceptually similar to the Admirals:


Radahn from Elden Ring is a General of the Golden Order who aspired to be the Elden Lord. When he was a child, Radahn was a fanboy of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord, and aspired to be a battlefield hero just like Godfrey some day.

When Elden Ring first came out, people thought that Godfrey was just explicitly more powerful than Radahn. He had to be, right? Radahn was a fanboy of Godfrey, and Radahn was never able to become the Elden Lord himself, so Godfrey must be more powerful than Radahn right?

Then the Elden Ring DLC came out and quite literally proved every single Radahn hater wrong. It turns out that Radahn was in fact widely considered by the strongest Demi Gods to be the next Elden Lord. Not only that, a young Radahn (not even a prime Radahn) also utilized the exact same fighting style that Godfrey himself did, which incorporated heavy stomping/earth shaking attacks and the “Lion” fighting arts like Lion’s Claw and other Godfrey esque techniques.

Not only was Radahn a warrior pretty much on par with Godfrey, but Radahn was also a master gravitational sorcerer. He mastered the sorcerous arts and used a hybrid Godfrey-mimicking / Gravity sorcerer fighting style.

Let’s not get too bogged down in the details of Elden Ring, for now let us just establish the facts about Radahn:
-At first People thought Radahn was weaker than Godfrey,
-In actuality Radahn is just Godfrey lite + Universal level gravitational sorcery.

Does this sound familiar?



Once upon a time, One Piece fans thought the Admirals were Enel tier fruit merchants, but then we find out that Kuzan, as Garp’s pupil and fanboy, mastered Garp’s fist style by training alongside Garp.
-People thought the Admirals were Yonko Commanders with Devil Fruits,
-In reality Aokiji is just Garp with a Logia

And I could literally stack this entire list with characters similar to Radahn and Aokiji in fiction.
-Kingdom is literally a manga full of characters who are top tier leaders, military minds, and martial warriors
-General Iron from Avatar the Last Airbender was among the absolute best Fire Benders of all time, while also being one of the best military minds of all time, while also inventing his own colossally high level Fire Bending techniques such as lightning redirection
-Endeavor from MHA is the second strongest hero of all time while also being deductively literally the best hero who ever lived, while also being a superb teacher
-Darth Vader from Star Wars is one of the best force users ever, while also being an incredible warrior who also killed more Jedi than anyone ever (daily reminder that Star Wars is trash)
-Bruce Wayne is a master Ninja Warrior while also being the world’s greatest detective and also having high level knowledge of concepts such as engineering, chemistry, biology, etc….

I could keep this going but this is what I believe the Admirals are. They have mastered every relevant fighting style that they have trained in, even if it would seem like that would make them too powerful.

This isn’t even exclusive to the Admirals btw.


Nasujuro is an Awakened Mythical Zoan, he is also a weilder of a supreme blade with top tier swordsmanship, and he also has raw Haki rivaling the strength of Saint Shanks.



Kaido may not have achieved awakening (scrub) but he did wield a supreme blade-level Kanabo that he mastered, he also mastered his conqueror’s Haki, he also mastered observation Haki, and he also did master a lot of crazy techniques with his mythical Zoan devil fruit.

“The Ambitious Hero” is a character who has mastered everything they set their mind to master, even when it may seem shocking or unbelievably to believe that one character could master so many different things.

Tying this back to Green Bull:


I believe Ryokugyu is an awakened Logia while also being a swordsman on par with the likes of Ryuma or prime Rayleigh. There is already precedent for this to happen with Aokiji, who can punch like Garp while also terraforming a massive island like Punk Hazard permanently, while also knowing techniques like Soru and Barrier Haki, while also spending a lot of his time sleeping and not really training as often as other characters like, perhaps for example, Akainu.

Because this is what the Admirals are, they aren’t high level fighters who have mastered a fighting style or two, they are versatility kings who have mastered multiple fighting styles. This even applies to Garp. Garp wasn’t just Garp the Fist, Garp also mastered his own “throwing” style:



So even Garp the Fist is included here, he didn’t “just” master the Fist of Love, he also mastered other fighting styles as well.

Part II: Ryokugyu in Prison

As soon as we found out that Aramaki did time in prison, I knew it was over for Green Bull haters.

Sending characters to prison is one of the easiest ways to grant them big boy Powerups. Don’t believe me?






Now I’m pretty sure no one wants to hear me listing a bunch of other examples as to why sending characters to prison can be a huge catalyst for massive Powerups. And believe me, I could lmfao. Prison in action series can be used as a catalyst to produce some of the hardest motherfuckers in their respective series. We have seen examples of this in One Piece itself. A character like Bane for example (in his original iteration) became a threat level exceeding Batmanby the sole virtue of growing up in prison. Would Shiryu be as much of a threat as he is currently if he hadn’t done so much time in prison? Would the Ten Titanic Captains be as threatening as they currently are if half of them hadn’t done hard time?

Now you may be asking yourself: Lee, what the fuck does this have to do with achieving a black blade.

Well, Ryokugyu doing hard time in the clink further serves to characterize him as a hard motherfucker who has had to earn a more Haki-based, less Devil Fruit based fighting style. This guy isn’t an Enel, like I said, I believe his Haki and base combat mastery is as high as his Devil fruit mastery, and he would have had to have learned the merits of such a fighting style in prison, when he either had no fruit or would have been seastone cuffed.

I don’t think Ryokugyu turned his blade black in prison because obviously that doesn’t make sense. However I do think Ryokugyu doing time in the clink, from a character writing standpoint, points to him being a hard motherfucker who has had to learn how to scrap for his own survival. Look at Luffy’s time in prison:

-Luffy was subject to hard manual labor
-Luffy was expected to fight for his life without access to his Devil fruit power, just his base fighting ability and Haki
-Luffy even learned the principals of a new form of Haki in prison

And Luffy was only in prison for like what? A week?

The fact that Aramaki seemingly did some hard time in prison definitely hypes him as a hard motherfucker who has had to learn to fight with his base body and his Haki, without his Devil fruit ability if he even had one back then, and would have accustomed to an extreme fight-or-die lifestyle of constant struggle.

Part III: What does Ryokugyu stealing/obtaining an already black blade say about his character?

So now I would like to juxtapose the type of character I believe Ryokugyu is, an “ambitious hero” character who has done hard time in prison, vs the type of character who didn’t actually forge his black blade but instead either stole it or received it from someone else.

Firstly, let’s discuss the idea that Ryokugyu stole his black blade or took it off of a corpse.

For it to make narrative sense that Aramaki took his black blade off of a corpse or “stole it”, Oda would have to have spent time characterizing Aramaki as the type of guy who steals the power of others.

This fits much more for a character like Blackbeard than it does for someone like Aramaki.

Blackbeard is the type of guy who has built a huge chunk of his reputation by stealing power from Whitebeard.


Blackbeard is the exact type of guy to take shortcuts in the process of gaining power for himself. He joined Whitebeard’s crew as a ruse, he stole Whitebeard’s own power for himself, he conquered Whitebeard’s territories, his crew isn’t really devoted to him in the same way that other crews are devoted to their own captains…it would have made far more sense if Blackbeard was the one who stole a Black Blade of, say,

Womp womp womp

Because Blackbeard is the type of character who steals power that he himself has not earned.

This isn’t how Oda has portrayed the Admirals or Aramaki. Aokiji didn’t “steal” Garp’s fighting style, he trained alongside Garp and mastered that style. Kizaru didn’t “steal” Sentomaru’s defense, he invented that style. Fujitora (presumably) didn’t steal his sword or his sword style, he mastered that style for himself.

So why all of the sudden would Ryokugyu be the type of character to steal someone else’s power?

Now, a lot of people will use this moment to argue that in the Film Ronin Gai, Aramaki picked up a sword off of a corpse. A scene literally so minuscule that I don’t recall it happening and will have to go rewatch the movie just to prove that it actually happened. So, a few things.

Aramaki from Ronin Gai is just an inspiration for Aramaki in One Piece first of all. They aren’t the same damn character lmfao. Second, Aramaki in the film uses like ten different swords in combat. He is literally, at the end of the film, throwing swords away after he cuts down too many men with them and switching to a brand new sword. Unless we see One Piece Aramaki doing something similar, the implication seems to be Aramaki fights with only one sword.

Secondly, arguing that Aramaki in OP must have picked his sword up off of a corpse because RG Aramaki apparently did, is like the equivalent of arguing that Fujitora will be a fist fighter because Zatoichi once punched a man.

Aramaki being the type of individual to steal someone else’s power is just not at all how he or the Admirals have been portrayed to be at any point in the manga. So Aramaki stealing or inheriting someone else’s black blade would serve only to introduce a completely new and unnecessary third party into the series for no reason other than to placate sword fans who don’t understand this manga to begin with.

This would effectively be the equivalent of Oda revealing that Mihawk found Yoru when it was already black. Who made Yoru black? Well it turns out that actually it was Shimotsuki Poozooloo the heir to the Shimotsuki clan in the fifth century post void century. What relevance does that have to Mihawk’s character? It degrades him by revealing that he never turned Yoru black and that he is instead leeching off of someone else’s hard work. What relevance does Poozooloo have to the plot? None at all.

Oda introducing Mihawk with a sword that he himself blackened is one of the ways that Oda tells us who Mihawk is as a character, because it is a very literal representation of his dedication, discipline, and history of battle as the only individual to ever to turn a supreme blade black.

Now, if Oda wanted to characterize Ryokugyu as someone who stole or inherited an already black blade, that’s great but the problem is that this is not at all how Oda has characterized Aramaki or the other Admirals.

If you asked me how Oda was characterizing the Admirals’ strength in one panel, it is this:


The Admirals are so fucking cool because they earned their incredible strength through training and experience. It wasn’t something they achieved by stealing someone else’s power.


Part IV: TLDR

Ryokugyu stealing or obtaining an already blackened blade flies in the face of how Oda has been characterizing him and the Admirals as a group.

Aramaki is an “ambitious hero” type character, a character who has mastered not just one but multiple top tier fighting styles, a hard motherfucker who has done hard time in prison. He has not been portrayed as the type of character who steals the power of others like Blackbeard, and introducing an unnecessary third party who turned the blade black serves no purpose other than to contradict how Aramaki and the Admirals have thus far been characterized.

My fellow Admiral fans might argue that I am setting myself up for disappointment in the event that Ryokugyu got his black blade from someone else, but most of my fellow Admiral fans also told me to drop the Aramaki black blade agenda entirely and my faith never wavered.

Time will tell if Aramaki turned his own blade black, or or if Shitsomuki Poozooloo of the Flashback style actually turned the blade black, but I am going to make the same pronunciation that I made originally: I am 99.9% confident that Ryokugyu turned the blade black himself and didn’t steal or inherit it.

Alright that’s enough from me. Let us set then Zolo fans up for their next ZKK/RBB sized L.

@SakazOuki @Kurozumi Wiwi @The White Crane @Wuuuke @silverfire @scoobie3 @AkainuTheGrimReaper @Apollo @Admiral Mou Bu @ZenZu @Extravlad @kurwa @haxxor @EmperorKinyagi @Blackbeard @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @God Buggy @Sentinel @Tyki_Mikk @Veku @Mr. Tuna Sandwich @GoldDiamond @Dragon777 @Weeman @Cadis Etrama Di Urek @Djordje @BaboonMihawk @Negan @The Buddha @Djordje @Germinator @DarkestKnightofSpoilers @[No Name] @King7
a text wall with no substance.

Fraud Bull was in a dire situation dealing with a YC7 Morley, yet instead of relying on his elite swordsmanship to handle him easily without causing additional environmental damage or hurting celestial dragons, he chose to use his Devil Fruit, which works best when there's no one nearby to protect and would hurt celestial dragons accidently.

This is quite ironic.

Assmirals fans have negative IQ.
 
#10
a text wall with no substance.

Fraud Bull was in a dire situation dealing with a YC7 Morley, yet instead of relying on his elite swordsmanship to handle him easily without causing additional environmental damage or hurting celestial dragons, he chose to use his Devil Fruit, which works best when there's no one nearby to protect and would hurt celestial dragons accidently.

This is quite ironic.

Assmirals fans have negative IQ.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#12
Part IV: TLDR

Ryokugyu stealing or obtaining an already blackened blade flies in the face of how Oda has been characterizing him and the Admirals as a group.

Aramaki is an “ambitious hero” type character, a character who has mastered not just one but multiple top tier fighting styles, a hard motherfucker who has done hard time in prison. He has not been portrayed as the type of character who steals the power of others like Blackbeard, and introducing an unnecessary third party who turned the blade black serves no purpose other than to contradict how Aramaki and the Admirals have thus far been characterized.

My fellow Admiral fans might argue that I am setting myself up for disappointment in the event that Ryokugyu got his black blade from someone else, but most of my fellow Admiral fans also told me to drop the Aramaki black blade agenda entirely and my faith never wavered.

Time will tell if Aramaki turned his own blade black, or or if Shitsomuki Poozooloo of the Flashback style actually turned the blade black, but I am going to make the same pronunciation that I made originally: I am 99.9% confident that Ryokugyu turned the blade black himself and didn’t steal or inherit it.
@Shiroyru
 
#14
Great post :shocking:.

Ryokugyu's haters are simply setting themselves for a big L if they think him having a Black Blade somehow doesn't mean much (which is a logical nonsense in the first place since Oda decided to give him one).
All BB users have forged their blades or were meant to do It (Zoro); same will be Ryokugyu, who is a genius swordsman as his inspiration, Gennai Aramaki.

This Is the same pattern as Fujitora having a Saijo, a thing that had been hyped since the day before Fuji got one and then somehow, suddenly, It didn't mean much anymore or Fuji was the excpetion.
Same nonsense.
 
#15
a text wall with no substance.

Fraud Bull was in a dire situation dealing with a YC7 Morley, yet instead of relying on his elite swordsmanship to handle him easily without causing additional environmental damage or hurting celestial dragons, he chose to use his Devil Fruit, which works best when there's no one nearby to protect and would hurt celestial dragons accidently.

This is quite ironic.

Assmirals fans have negative IQ.
Lol keep crying clown.:HappyClown:
 
#17
If Greenbull did create his own Black Blade, his special Nature logia powers may have facilitated it.. The fact that he can regenerate altogether from a sprout is the most interesting thing to me about his powers.. Not only that he can suck the life energy out of people which suggest he could share a part of his own soul to a Blade if it's a key requirement to the makings of a Black Blade..

Fujitora has a Supreme Grade Blade, it's not unthinkable that Aramaki could have Skillful Grade Black Blade, right under Ryuma.. A Great Grade Blade like Shusui would be pushing it maybe, but there's still a tiny slim possibility..

I think it's very likely that Ryokugyu did turn his Blade Black, and there are different Black Blade Grades.. Usopp got a Black Weapon too which everyone keep dismissing..

The Kuja arrows are permanently infused in base CoA, a single step away from Black Arrows..
 
#19
This guy is literally Zoro of the Marines, Aramaki is his name and Zoro was called the guy with Haramaki remember. Zoro versus Aramaki will be wait for it Legendary. :toximoji:
 
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