Controversial General Political Discussion
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Why does it gain humanity only when it begins to feel pain? Are humans who cannot feel pain (yes they exist) not human 😂
People do have epiphanies, but not out of nowhere. Peoples wills can change at an instant if prompted and often do when presented with high-stakes such as execution
It is a change using force, not being "forced" to change, the human will is intangible and cannot be "forced" to change.
Yes, people may choose to be martyred, or they may choose to abandon their faith. This exterior force reduces their culpability to some degree or other but in of itself does not remove their free-will.
How do you know such a change isn't genuine? Can you read minds and hearts?
It is a negative process because they did something evil.
Change can 100% happen out of fear, what we are speaking of now are perfect vs imperfect contrition.
Imperfect contrition - boy refrains from disobeying father out of fear for of punishment
Perfect contrition - boy refrains from disobeying father purely out of love for him and wishing to do good in of itself
The first form of contrition is 100% legitimate, because he still desires not to do evil, but it is for a less perfect reason than the latter
It is better to die younger with imperfect contrition than to die older with no contriton
This is the purpose of the death penalty.
"DEFUND THE POLICE! THEN criminals will stop committing crimes!!"
When it's alive, then it's a human 😀
People do have epiphanies, but not out of nowhere. Peoples wills can change at an instant if prompted and often do when presented with high-stakes such as execution
It is a change using force, not being "forced" to change, the human will is intangible and cannot be "forced" to change.
Yes, people may choose to be martyred, or they may choose to abandon their faith. This exterior force reduces their culpability to some degree or other but in of itself does not remove their free-will.
How do you know such a change isn't genuine? Can you read minds and hearts?
It is a negative process because they did something evil.
Change can 100% happen out of fear, what we are speaking of now are perfect vs imperfect contrition.
Imperfect contrition - boy refrains from disobeying father out of fear for of punishment
Perfect contrition - boy refrains from disobeying father purely out of love for him and wishing to do good in of itself
The first form of contrition is 100% legitimate, because he still desires not to do evil, but it is for a less perfect reason than the latter
It is better to die younger with imperfect contrition than to die older with no contriton
This is the purpose of the death penalty.
"DEFUND THE POLICE! THEN criminals will stop committing crimes!!"
When it's alive, then it's a human 😀
Unlawful and premeditated killing of one human by another then.
For my point about the legality only the unlawful part was relevant. But sure,manslaughter is also unlawful killing, but without the intent to kill
Or lets ask him at what point the fetus magically changes from non-human to human despite being alive as a non-human
@Logiko
For my point about the legality only the unlawful part was relevant. But sure,manslaughter is also unlawful killing, but without the intent to kill
Post automatically merged:
Or lets ask him at what point the fetus magically changes from non-human to human despite being alive as a non-human
@Logiko
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stop 
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Laws dictate what is and isn’t socially accepted, which effects human behavior
A big reason why people don’t commit crime is because it’s not socially acceptable
but during war, especially in the case of the I/P conflict, the enemy is heavily demonized and the government is willing to look the other way when war crimes happen.
As a result people commit war crimes
A big reason why people don’t commit crime is because it’s not socially acceptable
but during war, especially in the case of the I/P conflict, the enemy is heavily demonized and the government is willing to look the other way when war crimes happen.
As a result people commit war crimes
Not 3000 @Blax Blah LMAO
Around 300 !!*
I'm not rich aoejbnoaegn
And not only for Palestinian but also for associations who help people in difficulty and homeless people in our country. I gave those while following some streams in France, I'm not the only one, we were thousands to donate and lift Millions for Palestinians and for those associations.
Ask @Mathias he should be knowing what I'm talking about.
What differs between individuals ? (Sorry, Ijust woke up, pun intended)
Sorry, I'm talking to lot of people at the same time, I don't remember all the claims that people are specifically making, I'm reducing the debate to big arguments so you will have to be specific.
I'm dumb mate. You should know that by now.. I'm just a little bit more aware than you guyz. That's all
Well, ok.
Yeah, usually when we are talking about causality, physicist are the one we should listen to.
+1
It doesn't. Humanity is a social construct. You asked me to give you a specific moment. I gave you one.
I never said I was agreeing with the fact of placing humanity to a feotus.
I just told you the moment I consider that the life of a foetus should not be ereased. Pain being the trigger for me. If the feotus can feel pain, I consider that we should be careful. Before that, I have no reason to, there is no consciousness and no pain. The only important we give to the foetus is therefore a social construct. Just like we give to trees that we love (and in their case, they are fully developped)
1. Yeah. Epiphanies do not come out nowhere, that's precisely what I'm saying.
2. Usually no.. An epiphanies does not come with the menace of imminente death. In reality, what comes in those case it deep incomprehension.
3. Epiphanies are not a one time thing. In reality, epiphanies are a serie of little things. And I'm telling you that because I know exactly what having an epiphany means as I got a LOT during my lifetime. And by epiphanies, I means life changing realizations.
Those moments do not make you change from A to Z. No. Instead they make you change from A to B and from B to C sometimes you will get lucky and you will jump from E to H, but never will you jump from A to Z. Because jumping from A to Z would change you so drastically that it would kill you. And I mean it literally.
Radical change is something I have experienced. When I realized the absence of free will I was still a firm believer of meritocracy and right wing concept. Which means that this realization (because of my love for science) created a Gap of incomprehension that was enormous.
To give you an image, it's like if I was changed from A to L. This realization that was help from the outside but that came from within send me into depression for multiple weeks because I was simply not prepared to handle it and I had lost my will to live.
This is one of the reasons why you can see me make BIG texts to explain the FULL reasonning behind my thoughts. Because I want you to understand each steps behind my reasonning and I don't want to lose you on the way in. Gladly, we are not so easily convinced that a simple text can transform us. But if you start to take what I say seriously, things that that say will start to make sence and I want you guyz to have the full experience and the full reasoning so there is no incomprehension gaps like I felt back in the days.
This is literally the same thing.
The human will CAN be forced to change. In fact, it's very easy to change the will of people as long as you are in control of the entire system.
Indeed, it does not remove free will because there was none in the first place.
And the reason why punishment reduces culpability is not because of the punishment itself, but because of society sees punishment. If society consider that punishment is necessary to change, then, to fit into society, a person will believe that punishment is necessary to change.
You need to understand the relationship between the structure and systems around us and the way we are shaped. Those two things are related.
Tell me, do you think people in north corea are all angry against KJUn ? No, they are not. In reality, a lot of people, despite the extrem proverty and famine LOVE the guy. The reason is very simple, the entire society is structure in such a way that loving the guy is needed to be a part of the system. Anyone who does not or show any sign that they do not, is executed.
This is what I mean when I say that leftist and marxist know (and not believe) that social species are shaped by the material conditions of their existences !
The material conditions are the environement, the capitals, the education, the ressources, the relationship, the systems of oppressions in place, the political paradigm etc.. If you change them, you change people.
This is why I started to ask for change in the structure of the forum in order to reduce negativity here. I do not want to force people to change. I wanted to make the system more positive and more inclusive in order for people to start to be more positive and inclusive to fit into the system. And this is exactly what we - woke people - want to do with society by removing patriarchy, capitalism systemic racism etc.
We do not want to change the individual behaviors, we do not care about that, we want to change the system that shape those behaviors.
And so for our example, the problem is that we are bypassing that. We force this change on people, we try to trigger the switch and in the majority of cases, it does not work and it creates even more violence and anger.
Because I know what change means and requires.
And forced change is not change. It's torture. And this change will not last.
Why ?
For the reason I developped earlier. It is idealistic to think that this type of change can come drastrically. Because behind REAL change, it is in reality hundreds of little change that happen. It's the entire ideological vision of the world that is removed and replaced. You will never make a rapist change for the better by just making him understand that he has done a bad thing. You will make him understand by changing his entire vision of the world and understand the concept of consent.
ONLY THEN will change stick. If you do not create deep and structual change in the vision of the world of a person you will create a TIME BOMB.
It would be like building a skycraper out of wood fundations. Of course it will hold up for a bit. But the moment there is a crack and there will be a crack, you can say good bye to the entire thing and you will have created a major catastrophy. Because this time, of top of having performed a fake change, you will have created a person that do not understand who they are anymore and this person will be highly volatile.
No. It's a negative process because that the only way our society has managed to deal with those negative actions.
It does not mean that it is "THE RIGHT WAY"
Indeed but not meaningfull change. CF what I just said above.
In reality you are missing something. But you need to understand social sciences to know that:
Reality > The Boy refrains from disobeying his father because in our society, the parental figure is constructed to prefigure authority and because the boy is conditionned to follow the father's order and because nothing prevented the boy from challenging this social behavior
In other word, without a form of constrain or violence or exterior motivation, there was no reason for the boy to follow the order of the father in a society where boys listen to their father.
But add violence to that and fear will indeed enter the equation but add exterior motivation to that, like a new way of seeing the world, and the boy will stop following his dad's order.
This is literally what happened to Sanji. As you can see, Sanji was afraid of his father and yet, he didn't obey. Why ? Because he had his mother and his mother gave him a completely different vision of the world. Allowing Sanji to have a very different vision that boyz who only have abusive fathers.
This allowed Sanji to free challenge his worldview and escape. It made him change. Just like the presence of Luffy ALSO made Sanji change later. And as you can see in this brilliant example, Sanji didn't change in one strike. In fact he had multiples moments of change : Germa > Baraties > Whole cake > Wano.
Change comes through deep restructurations of the vision of the world. It can't transform a person in its opposite.
And fear.. is not what makes people change. LOVE AND THE NEED TO FIT IN ARE.
It is better not to die at all
Then a cat is a human too ?
It does not. Humanity is a social construct.
There is a difference between saying "this is a human foetus" and "this person is a human" . One sentence is the cold fact, the other is charged with the sociat construct that is humanity that we choose to put on our specie to differenciate it from others species.
I choose to consider a human foetus the same way I consider a cat foetus or a dog foetus. (I don't know if we call them that for them). I simply choose NOT to give the foetus a spiritual and morally superior essence. I accept to do that - because it's a social pressure - ONLY when the foetus starts to feel pain and has consciousness. After that, in the case of abortion, I consider the affect of the doctors who have to perform it.
Which allows me to consider abortion as acceptable to a point where the foetus is around 12 weeks olds. After that doctors who have to crack the skull of the foetus and they often end up traumatized because of it and it's does not seat well with me.
The reason is simple : I challenge their vision of the world and deep down, they know that there is a form of truth with what I'm saying, so they try to defend what they believe in, which is logical. Just like it is logical that you debated so long with me too.
No. Laws put words on those things.
What is socially accepted or not is created by the material condition of society and the pressure that come from the result on people.
i'm sure you will see that there are a lot of laws in the US that are STILL in and that are not respected because they are outdated. This is a proof showing that laws do NOT dictate the social structures of society but simply put them into words.
No. In those case government are not looking the other way. You are dereponsibilizing the structures of power here. In those case, the structure of power are constructed in ORDER for those war crimes to happen.
War crimes are not the result of bad behaviors. They are the result of a social pressure that push people to do war crimes.
As I proved here, No. It's not the case.
Around 300 !!*
I'm not rich aoejbnoaegn
And not only for Palestinian but also for associations who help people in difficulty and homeless people in our country. I gave those while following some streams in France, I'm not the only one, we were thousands to donate and lift Millions for Palestinians and for those associations.
Ask @Mathias he should be knowing what I'm talking about.
What differs between individuals ? (Sorry, Ijust woke up, pun intended)
Sorry, I'm talking to lot of people at the same time, I don't remember all the claims that people are specifically making, I'm reducing the debate to big arguments so you will have to be specific.
I'm dumb mate. You should know that by now.. I'm just a little bit more aware than you guyz. That's all
Well, ok.
Yeah, usually when we are talking about causality, physicist are the one we should listen to.
+1
It doesn't. Humanity is a social construct. You asked me to give you a specific moment. I gave you one.
I never said I was agreeing with the fact of placing humanity to a feotus.
I just told you the moment I consider that the life of a foetus should not be ereased. Pain being the trigger for me. If the feotus can feel pain, I consider that we should be careful. Before that, I have no reason to, there is no consciousness and no pain. The only important we give to the foetus is therefore a social construct. Just like we give to trees that we love (and in their case, they are fully developped)
1. Yeah. Epiphanies do not come out nowhere, that's precisely what I'm saying.
2. Usually no.. An epiphanies does not come with the menace of imminente death. In reality, what comes in those case it deep incomprehension.
3. Epiphanies are not a one time thing. In reality, epiphanies are a serie of little things. And I'm telling you that because I know exactly what having an epiphany means as I got a LOT during my lifetime. And by epiphanies, I means life changing realizations.
Those moments do not make you change from A to Z. No. Instead they make you change from A to B and from B to C sometimes you will get lucky and you will jump from E to H, but never will you jump from A to Z. Because jumping from A to Z would change you so drastically that it would kill you. And I mean it literally.
Radical change is something I have experienced. When I realized the absence of free will I was still a firm believer of meritocracy and right wing concept. Which means that this realization (because of my love for science) created a Gap of incomprehension that was enormous.
To give you an image, it's like if I was changed from A to L. This realization that was help from the outside but that came from within send me into depression for multiple weeks because I was simply not prepared to handle it and I had lost my will to live.
This is one of the reasons why you can see me make BIG texts to explain the FULL reasonning behind my thoughts. Because I want you to understand each steps behind my reasonning and I don't want to lose you on the way in. Gladly, we are not so easily convinced that a simple text can transform us. But if you start to take what I say seriously, things that that say will start to make sence and I want you guyz to have the full experience and the full reasoning so there is no incomprehension gaps like I felt back in the days.
This is literally the same thing.
The human will CAN be forced to change. In fact, it's very easy to change the will of people as long as you are in control of the entire system.
Indeed, it does not remove free will because there was none in the first place.
And the reason why punishment reduces culpability is not because of the punishment itself, but because of society sees punishment. If society consider that punishment is necessary to change, then, to fit into society, a person will believe that punishment is necessary to change.
You need to understand the relationship between the structure and systems around us and the way we are shaped. Those two things are related.
Tell me, do you think people in north corea are all angry against KJUn ? No, they are not. In reality, a lot of people, despite the extrem proverty and famine LOVE the guy. The reason is very simple, the entire society is structure in such a way that loving the guy is needed to be a part of the system. Anyone who does not or show any sign that they do not, is executed.
This is what I mean when I say that leftist and marxist know (and not believe) that social species are shaped by the material conditions of their existences !
The material conditions are the environement, the capitals, the education, the ressources, the relationship, the systems of oppressions in place, the political paradigm etc.. If you change them, you change people.
This is why I started to ask for change in the structure of the forum in order to reduce negativity here. I do not want to force people to change. I wanted to make the system more positive and more inclusive in order for people to start to be more positive and inclusive to fit into the system. And this is exactly what we - woke people - want to do with society by removing patriarchy, capitalism systemic racism etc.
We do not want to change the individual behaviors, we do not care about that, we want to change the system that shape those behaviors.
And so for our example, the problem is that we are bypassing that. We force this change on people, we try to trigger the switch and in the majority of cases, it does not work and it creates even more violence and anger.
Because I know what change means and requires.
And forced change is not change. It's torture. And this change will not last.
Why ?
For the reason I developped earlier. It is idealistic to think that this type of change can come drastrically. Because behind REAL change, it is in reality hundreds of little change that happen. It's the entire ideological vision of the world that is removed and replaced. You will never make a rapist change for the better by just making him understand that he has done a bad thing. You will make him understand by changing his entire vision of the world and understand the concept of consent.
ONLY THEN will change stick. If you do not create deep and structual change in the vision of the world of a person you will create a TIME BOMB.
It would be like building a skycraper out of wood fundations. Of course it will hold up for a bit. But the moment there is a crack and there will be a crack, you can say good bye to the entire thing and you will have created a major catastrophy. Because this time, of top of having performed a fake change, you will have created a person that do not understand who they are anymore and this person will be highly volatile.
No. It's a negative process because that the only way our society has managed to deal with those negative actions.
It does not mean that it is "THE RIGHT WAY"
Indeed but not meaningfull change. CF what I just said above.
In reality you are missing something. But you need to understand social sciences to know that:
Reality > The Boy refrains from disobeying his father because in our society, the parental figure is constructed to prefigure authority and because the boy is conditionned to follow the father's order and because nothing prevented the boy from challenging this social behavior
In other word, without a form of constrain or violence or exterior motivation, there was no reason for the boy to follow the order of the father in a society where boys listen to their father.
But add violence to that and fear will indeed enter the equation but add exterior motivation to that, like a new way of seeing the world, and the boy will stop following his dad's order.
This is literally what happened to Sanji. As you can see, Sanji was afraid of his father and yet, he didn't obey. Why ? Because he had his mother and his mother gave him a completely different vision of the world. Allowing Sanji to have a very different vision that boyz who only have abusive fathers.
This allowed Sanji to free challenge his worldview and escape. It made him change. Just like the presence of Luffy ALSO made Sanji change later. And as you can see in this brilliant example, Sanji didn't change in one strike. In fact he had multiples moments of change : Germa > Baraties > Whole cake > Wano.
Change comes through deep restructurations of the vision of the world. It can't transform a person in its opposite.
And fear.. is not what makes people change. LOVE AND THE NEED TO FIT IN ARE.
It is better not to die at all
"DEFUND THE POLICE! THEN criminals will stop committing crimes!!"
Then a cat is a human too ?
It does not. Humanity is a social construct.
There is a difference between saying "this is a human foetus" and "this person is a human" . One sentence is the cold fact, the other is charged with the sociat construct that is humanity that we choose to put on our specie to differenciate it from others species.
I choose to consider a human foetus the same way I consider a cat foetus or a dog foetus. (I don't know if we call them that for them). I simply choose NOT to give the foetus a spiritual and morally superior essence. I accept to do that - because it's a social pressure - ONLY when the foetus starts to feel pain and has consciousness. After that, in the case of abortion, I consider the affect of the doctors who have to perform it.
Which allows me to consider abortion as acceptable to a point where the foetus is around 12 weeks olds. After that doctors who have to crack the skull of the foetus and they often end up traumatized because of it and it's does not seat well with me.
The reason is simple : I challenge their vision of the world and deep down, they know that there is a form of truth with what I'm saying, so they try to defend what they believe in, which is logical. Just like it is logical that you debated so long with me too.
No. Laws put words on those things.
What is socially accepted or not is created by the material condition of society and the pressure that come from the result on people.
i'm sure you will see that there are a lot of laws in the US that are STILL in and that are not respected because they are outdated. This is a proof showing that laws do NOT dictate the social structures of society but simply put them into words.
No. In those case government are not looking the other way. You are dereponsibilizing the structures of power here. In those case, the structure of power are constructed in ORDER for those war crimes to happen.
War crimes are not the result of bad behaviors. They are the result of a social pressure that push people to do war crimes.
As I proved here, No. It's not the case.
Not 3000 @Blax Blah LMAO
Around 300 !!*
I'm not rich aoejbnoaegn
And not only for Palestinian but also for associations who help people in difficulty and homeless people in our country. I gave those while following some streams in France, I'm not the only one, we were thousands to donate and lift Millions for Palestinians and for those associations.
Ask @Mathias he should be knowing what I'm talking about.
What differs between individuals ? (Sorry, Ijust woke up, pun intended)
Sorry, I'm talking to lot of people at the same time, I don't remember all the claims that people are specifically making, I'm reducing the debate to big arguments so you will have to be specific.
I'm dumb mate. You should know that by now.. I'm just a little bit more aware than you guyz. That's all
Well, ok.
Yeah, usually when we are talking about causality, physicist are the one we should listen to.
+1
It doesn't. Humanity is a social construct. You asked me to give you a specific moment. I gave you one.
I never said I was agreeing with the fact of placing humanity to a feotus.
I just told you the moment I consider that the life of a foetus should not be ereased. Pain being the trigger for me. If the feotus can feel pain, I consider that we should be careful. Before that, I have no reason to, there is no consciousness and no pain. The only important we give to the foetus is therefore a social construct. Just like we give to trees that we love (and in their case, they are fully developped)
1. Yeah. Epiphanies do not come out nowhere, that's precisely what I'm saying.
2. Usually no.. An epiphanies does not come with the menace of imminente death. In reality, what comes in those case it deep incomprehension.
3. Epiphanies are not a one time thing. In reality, epiphanies are a serie of little things. And I'm telling you that because I know exactly what having an epiphany means as I got a LOT during my lifetime. And by epiphanies, I means life changing realizations.
Those moments do not make you change from A to Z. No. Instead they make you change from A to B and from B to C sometimes you will get lucky and you will jump from E to H, but never will you jump from A to Z. Because jumping from A to Z would change you so drastically that it would kill you. And I mean it literally.
Radical change is something I have experienced. When I realized the absence of free will I was still a firm believer of meritocracy and right wing concept. Which means that this realization (because of my love for science) created a Gap of incomprehension that was enormous.
To give you an image, it's like if I was changed from A to L. This realization that was help from the outside but that came from within send me into depression for multiple weeks because I was simply not prepared to handle it and I had lost my will to live.
This is one of the reasons why you can see me make BIG texts to explain the FULL reasonning behind my thoughts. Because I want you to understand each steps behind my reasonning and I don't want to lose you on the way in. Gladly, we are not so easily convinced that a simple text can transform us. But if you start to take what I say seriously, things that that say will start to make sence and I want you guyz to have the full experience and the full reasoning so there is no incomprehension gaps like I felt back in the days.
This is literally the same thing.
The human will CAN be forced to change. In fact, it's very easy to change the will of people as long as you are in control of the entire system.
Indeed, it does not remove free will because there was none in the first place.
And the reason why punishment reduces culpability is not because of the punishment itself, but because of society sees punishment. If society consider that punishment is necessary to change, then, to fit into society, a person will believe that punishment is necessary to change.
You need to understand the relationship between the structure and systems around us and the way we are shaped. Those two things are related.
Tell me, do you think people in north corea are all angry against KJUn ? No, they are not. In reality, a lot of people, despite the extrem proverty and famine LOVE the guy. The reason is very simple, the entire society is structure in such a way that loving the guy is needed to be a part of the system. Anyone who does not or show any sign that they do not, is executed.
This is what I mean when I say that leftist and marxist know (and not believe) that social species are shaped by the material conditions of their existences !
The material conditions are the environement, the capitals, the education, the ressources, the relationship, the systems of oppressions in place, the political paradigm etc.. If you change them, you change people.
This is why I started to ask for change in the structure of the forum in order to reduce negativity here. I do not want to force people to change. I wanted to make the system more positive and more inclusive in order for people to start to be more positive and inclusive to fit into the system. And this is exactly what we - woke people - want to do with society by removing patriarchy, capitalism systemic racism etc.
We do not want to change the individual behaviors, we do not care about that, we want to change the system that shape those behaviors.
And so for our example, the problem is that we are bypassing that. We force this change on people, we try to trigger the switch and in the majority of cases, it does not work and it creates even more violence and anger.
Because I know what change means and requires.
And forced change is not change. It's torture. And this change will not last.
Why ?
For the reason I developped earlier. It is idealistic to think that this type of change can come drastrically. Because behind REAL change, it is in reality hundreds of little change that happen. It's the entire ideological vision of the world that is removed and replaced. You will never make a rapist change for the better by just making him understand that he has done a bad thing. You will make him understand by changing his entire vision of the world and understand the concept of consent.
ONLY THEN will change stick. If you do not create deep and structual change in the vision of the world of a person you will create a TIME BOMB.
It would be like building a skycraper out of wood fundations. Of course it will hold up for a bit. But the moment there is a crack and there will be a crack, you can say good bye to the entire thing and you will have created a major catastrophy. Because this time, of top of having performed a fake change, you will have created a person that do not understand who they are anymore and this person will be highly volatile.
No. It's a negative process because that the only way our society has managed to deal with those negative actions.
It does not mean that it is "THE RIGHT WAY"
Indeed but not meaningfull change. CF what I just said above.
In reality you are missing something. But you need to understand social sciences to know that:
Reality > The Boy refrains from disobeying his father because in our society, the parental figure is constructed to prefigure authority and because the boy is conditionned to follow the father's order and because nothing prevented the boy from challenging this social behavior
In other word, without a form of constrain or violence or exterior motivation, there was no reason for the boy to follow the order of the father in a society where boys listen to their father.
But add violence to that and fear will indeed enter the equation but add exterior motivation to that, like a new way of seeing the world, and the boy will stop following his dad's order.
This is literally what happened to Sanji. As you can see, Sanji was afraid of his father and yet, he didn't obey. Why ? Because he had his mother and his mother gave him a completely different vision of the world. Allowing Sanji to have a very different vision that boyz who only have abusive fathers.
This allowed Sanji to free challenge his worldview and escape. It made him change. Just like the presence of Luffy ALSO made Sanji change later. And as you can see in this brilliant example, Sanji didn't change in one strike. In fact he had multiples moments of change : Germa > Baraties > Whole cake > Wano.
Change comes through deep restructurations of the vision of the world. It can't transform a person in its opposite.
And fear.. is not what makes people change. LOVE AND THE NEED TO FIT IN ARE.
It is better not to die at all
Then a cat is a human too ?
It does not. Humanity is a social construct.
There is a difference between saying "this is a human foetus" and "this person is a human" . One sentence is the cold fact, the other is charged with the sociat construct that is humanity that we choose to put on our specie to differenciate it from others species.
I choose to consider a human foetus the same way I consider a cat foetus or a dog foetus. (I don't know if we call them that for them). I simply choose NOT to give the foetus a spiritual and morally superior essence. I accept to do that - because it's a social pressure - ONLY when the foetus starts to feel pain and has consciousness. After that, in the case of abortion, I consider the affect of the doctors who have to perform it.
Which allows me to consider abortion as acceptable to a point where the foetus is around 12 weeks olds. After that doctors who have to crack the skull of the foetus and they often end up traumatized because of it and it's does not seat well with me.
The reason is simple : I challenge their vision of the world and deep down, they know that there is a form of truth with what I'm saying, so they try to defend what they believe in, which is logical. Just like it is logical that you debated so long with me too.
No. Laws put words on those things.
What is socially accepted or not is created by the material condition of society and the pressure that come from the result on people.
i'm sure you will see that there are a lot of laws in the US that are STILL in and that are not respected because they are outdated. This is a proof showing that laws do NOT dictate the social structures of society but simply put them into words.
No. In those case government are not looking the other way. You are dereponsibilizing the structures of power here. In those case, the structure of power are constructed in ORDER for those war crimes to happen.
War crimes are not the result of bad behaviors. They are the result of a social pressure that push people to do war crimes.
As I proved here, No. It's not the case.
Around 300 !!*
I'm not rich aoejbnoaegn
And not only for Palestinian but also for associations who help people in difficulty and homeless people in our country. I gave those while following some streams in France, I'm not the only one, we were thousands to donate and lift Millions for Palestinians and for those associations.
Ask @Mathias he should be knowing what I'm talking about.
What differs between individuals ? (Sorry, Ijust woke up, pun intended)
Sorry, I'm talking to lot of people at the same time, I don't remember all the claims that people are specifically making, I'm reducing the debate to big arguments so you will have to be specific.
I'm dumb mate. You should know that by now.. I'm just a little bit more aware than you guyz. That's all
Well, ok.
Yeah, usually when we are talking about causality, physicist are the one we should listen to.
+1
It doesn't. Humanity is a social construct. You asked me to give you a specific moment. I gave you one.
I never said I was agreeing with the fact of placing humanity to a feotus.
I just told you the moment I consider that the life of a foetus should not be ereased. Pain being the trigger for me. If the feotus can feel pain, I consider that we should be careful. Before that, I have no reason to, there is no consciousness and no pain. The only important we give to the foetus is therefore a social construct. Just like we give to trees that we love (and in their case, they are fully developped)
1. Yeah. Epiphanies do not come out nowhere, that's precisely what I'm saying.
2. Usually no.. An epiphanies does not come with the menace of imminente death. In reality, what comes in those case it deep incomprehension.
3. Epiphanies are not a one time thing. In reality, epiphanies are a serie of little things. And I'm telling you that because I know exactly what having an epiphany means as I got a LOT during my lifetime. And by epiphanies, I means life changing realizations.
Those moments do not make you change from A to Z. No. Instead they make you change from A to B and from B to C sometimes you will get lucky and you will jump from E to H, but never will you jump from A to Z. Because jumping from A to Z would change you so drastically that it would kill you. And I mean it literally.
Radical change is something I have experienced. When I realized the absence of free will I was still a firm believer of meritocracy and right wing concept. Which means that this realization (because of my love for science) created a Gap of incomprehension that was enormous.
To give you an image, it's like if I was changed from A to L. This realization that was help from the outside but that came from within send me into depression for multiple weeks because I was simply not prepared to handle it and I had lost my will to live.
This is one of the reasons why you can see me make BIG texts to explain the FULL reasonning behind my thoughts. Because I want you to understand each steps behind my reasonning and I don't want to lose you on the way in. Gladly, we are not so easily convinced that a simple text can transform us. But if you start to take what I say seriously, things that that say will start to make sence and I want you guyz to have the full experience and the full reasoning so there is no incomprehension gaps like I felt back in the days.
This is literally the same thing.
The human will CAN be forced to change. In fact, it's very easy to change the will of people as long as you are in control of the entire system.
Indeed, it does not remove free will because there was none in the first place.
And the reason why punishment reduces culpability is not because of the punishment itself, but because of society sees punishment. If society consider that punishment is necessary to change, then, to fit into society, a person will believe that punishment is necessary to change.
You need to understand the relationship between the structure and systems around us and the way we are shaped. Those two things are related.
Tell me, do you think people in north corea are all angry against KJUn ? No, they are not. In reality, a lot of people, despite the extrem proverty and famine LOVE the guy. The reason is very simple, the entire society is structure in such a way that loving the guy is needed to be a part of the system. Anyone who does not or show any sign that they do not, is executed.
This is what I mean when I say that leftist and marxist know (and not believe) that social species are shaped by the material conditions of their existences !
The material conditions are the environement, the capitals, the education, the ressources, the relationship, the systems of oppressions in place, the political paradigm etc.. If you change them, you change people.
This is why I started to ask for change in the structure of the forum in order to reduce negativity here. I do not want to force people to change. I wanted to make the system more positive and more inclusive in order for people to start to be more positive and inclusive to fit into the system. And this is exactly what we - woke people - want to do with society by removing patriarchy, capitalism systemic racism etc.
We do not want to change the individual behaviors, we do not care about that, we want to change the system that shape those behaviors.
And so for our example, the problem is that we are bypassing that. We force this change on people, we try to trigger the switch and in the majority of cases, it does not work and it creates even more violence and anger.
Because I know what change means and requires.
And forced change is not change. It's torture. And this change will not last.
Why ?
For the reason I developped earlier. It is idealistic to think that this type of change can come drastrically. Because behind REAL change, it is in reality hundreds of little change that happen. It's the entire ideological vision of the world that is removed and replaced. You will never make a rapist change for the better by just making him understand that he has done a bad thing. You will make him understand by changing his entire vision of the world and understand the concept of consent.
ONLY THEN will change stick. If you do not create deep and structual change in the vision of the world of a person you will create a TIME BOMB.
It would be like building a skycraper out of wood fundations. Of course it will hold up for a bit. But the moment there is a crack and there will be a crack, you can say good bye to the entire thing and you will have created a major catastrophy. Because this time, of top of having performed a fake change, you will have created a person that do not understand who they are anymore and this person will be highly volatile.
No. It's a negative process because that the only way our society has managed to deal with those negative actions.
It does not mean that it is "THE RIGHT WAY"
Indeed but not meaningfull change. CF what I just said above.
In reality you are missing something. But you need to understand social sciences to know that:
Reality > The Boy refrains from disobeying his father because in our society, the parental figure is constructed to prefigure authority and because the boy is conditionned to follow the father's order and because nothing prevented the boy from challenging this social behavior
In other word, without a form of constrain or violence or exterior motivation, there was no reason for the boy to follow the order of the father in a society where boys listen to their father.
But add violence to that and fear will indeed enter the equation but add exterior motivation to that, like a new way of seeing the world, and the boy will stop following his dad's order.
This is literally what happened to Sanji. As you can see, Sanji was afraid of his father and yet, he didn't obey. Why ? Because he had his mother and his mother gave him a completely different vision of the world. Allowing Sanji to have a very different vision that boyz who only have abusive fathers.
This allowed Sanji to free challenge his worldview and escape. It made him change. Just like the presence of Luffy ALSO made Sanji change later. And as you can see in this brilliant example, Sanji didn't change in one strike. In fact he had multiples moments of change : Germa > Baraties > Whole cake > Wano.
Change comes through deep restructurations of the vision of the world. It can't transform a person in its opposite.
And fear.. is not what makes people change. LOVE AND THE NEED TO FIT IN ARE.
It is better not to die at all
Then a cat is a human too ?
It does not. Humanity is a social construct.
There is a difference between saying "this is a human foetus" and "this person is a human" . One sentence is the cold fact, the other is charged with the sociat construct that is humanity that we choose to put on our specie to differenciate it from others species.
I choose to consider a human foetus the same way I consider a cat foetus or a dog foetus. (I don't know if we call them that for them). I simply choose NOT to give the foetus a spiritual and morally superior essence. I accept to do that - because it's a social pressure - ONLY when the foetus starts to feel pain and has consciousness. After that, in the case of abortion, I consider the affect of the doctors who have to perform it.
Which allows me to consider abortion as acceptable to a point where the foetus is around 12 weeks olds. After that doctors who have to crack the skull of the foetus and they often end up traumatized because of it and it's does not seat well with me.
The reason is simple : I challenge their vision of the world and deep down, they know that there is a form of truth with what I'm saying, so they try to defend what they believe in, which is logical. Just like it is logical that you debated so long with me too.
No. Laws put words on those things.
What is socially accepted or not is created by the material condition of society and the pressure that come from the result on people.
i'm sure you will see that there are a lot of laws in the US that are STILL in and that are not respected because they are outdated. This is a proof showing that laws do NOT dictate the social structures of society but simply put them into words.
No. In those case government are not looking the other way. You are dereponsibilizing the structures of power here. In those case, the structure of power are constructed in ORDER for those war crimes to happen.
War crimes are not the result of bad behaviors. They are the result of a social pressure that push people to do war crimes.
As I proved here, No. It's not the case.
Not 3000 @Blax Blah LMAO
Around 300 !!*
I'm not rich aoejbnoaegn
And not only for Palestinian but also for associations who help people in difficulty and homeless people in our country. I gave those while following some streams in France, I'm not the only one, we were thousands to donate and lift Millions for Palestinians and for those associations.
Ask @Mathias he should be knowing what I'm talking about.
Around 300 !!*
I'm not rich aoejbnoaegn
And not only for Palestinian but also for associations who help people in difficulty and homeless people in our country. I gave those while following some streams in France, I'm not the only one, we were thousands to donate and lift Millions for Palestinians and for those associations.
Ask @Mathias he should be knowing what I'm talking about.
I know twitch streamers sometimes raise money yeah. But I'm not following anything on twitch.
Have you ever met kids? Or been one yourself? Because that's not how children function 🤣
You tell a kid 'don't do this because it's not allowed' and the kid will do it behind your back, plain and simple. It's better to have a conversation with them about why something is not allowed eg if something is dangerous.
That's why for example I propose mandatory showing of accident footage for teens getting their driver's license.
Many crimes are socially acceptable what, are you talking about
You mean personhood.
Personhood is indeed up to interpretation and varies from culture to culture. In some, a child is only considered a person once they can.speak for example.
Best quote of the year
You tell a kid 'don't do this because it's not allowed' and the kid will do it behind your back, plain and simple. It's better to have a conversation with them about why something is not allowed eg if something is dangerous.
That's why for example I propose mandatory showing of accident footage for teens getting their driver's license.
Many crimes are socially acceptable what, are you talking about
You mean personhood.
Personhood is indeed up to interpretation and varies from culture to culture. In some, a child is only considered a person once they can.speak for example.
Best quote of the year
What do you mean ? I have no idea what you're talking about
I know twitch streamers sometimes raise money yeah. But I'm not following anything on twitch.
I know twitch streamers sometimes raise money yeah. But I'm not following anything on twitch.
No I'm talking about the concept of humanity as in "this guy is really human with people" < This is a social construct.
But you are right about personhood too.
Best quote of the year
