Character Discussion Shiryu the Janitors Portrayal

Shiryu seems less impressive than Jack for now, but one day his moment to shine should come.
Jack:
- hype introduction;
- great zoan fruit;
- wild pigtails design.
Zero feats, ended up doing fuck all, getting diffd by elephants, dogs, and cats.

Shiryu:
- mid introduction;
- boring invisibility fruit;
- boring design.
Here's hoping he gets the reverse of Jack's fate and delivers a good fight.
 
Because if we see other Zoro fights the character he's fighting is there to either show off his skills or force him to learn a new one. Either Zoro stomps Janitoryu or he improves his CoO mid fight. I don't think any BB pirate is getting stomped from the get go

It's simple patter recognition
What is there much to learn for him?he is so quick and cautious that he can sleep block attack of awekened zoan kaku
 
Because if we see other Zoro fights the character he's fighting is there to either show off his skills or force him to learn a new one. Either Zoro stomps Janitoryu or he improves his CoO mid fight. I don't think any BB pirate is getting stomped from the get go

It's simple patter recognition
This isn't a linear pattern. Hyouzou, Pica, Monet, Killer didn't force Zoro to learn anything new.
Shiryu comes in that same category. Normal CoO can sense him while invisible. The only way shiryu will give trouble to Zoro is by fighting dirty, like taking hostages or creating distractions. Similar to how he tried attacking Koby and Garp came in to intercept, zoro will get pressured by same situations.
 
This isn't a linear pattern. Hyouzou, Pica, Monet, Killer didn't force Zoro to learn anything new.
Shiryu comes in that same category. Normal CoO can sense him while invisible. The only way shiryu will give trouble to Zoro is by fighting dirty, like taking hostages or creating distractions. Similar to how he tried attacking Koby and Garp came in to intercept, zoro will get pressured by same situations.
We don't know if Garp has normal CoO. Reminder that Koby is also a CoO expert and can sense things from miles away and failed to sense Shiryu
 
We don't know if Garp has normal CoO
We're going by what we're shown. In Garp's only fight of the manga, if he didn't show any AdCoO then he simply doesn't have it.

Reminder that Koby is also a CoO expert and can sense things from miles away and failed to sense Shiryu
He didn't sense Shiryu because he was gullible and fell into the trap, not because his CoO is lacking. CoO works best when ur in the calm state of mind. Koby wasn't calm in that moment.
 
This isn't a linear pattern. Hyouzou, Pica, Monet, Killer didn't force Zoro to learn anything new.
Shiryu comes in that same category. Normal CoO can sense him while invisible. The only way shiryu will give trouble to Zoro is by fighting dirty, like taking hostages or creating distractions. Similar to how he tried attacking Koby and Garp came in to intercept, zoro will get pressured by same situations.
Who says zolo will let such a Situation Allow to Happen?:zosmug:
 
We don't know if Garp has normal CoO. Reminder that Koby is also a CoO expert and can sense things from miles away and failed to sense Shiryu
Usopp could see Sugar Luffy and Law from behind a wall. That means normal CoO can see people’s SOULS without having to actual see their physical bodies

This is NORMAL low level CoO that can see people’s souls

unless Shiryu can hide his soul, even Usopp can see him, and Zoro most definitely has Usopp level CoO or better

Koby was distracted, that why Shiryu got him… remember… Koby was baited by a random pirate pretending to be civilian, and that how Shiryu managed to get close to him

so Shiryu needed a Distraction for Koby too… then he used Koby as a bait for Garp… in fact that’s what he did for Moria too, he snuck behind Moria as Moria was talking to Blackbeard

there is actually ZERO panels of Shiryu actually managing to just straight be undetected by someone above fodder level
 
We're going by what we're shown. In Garp's only fight of the manga, if he didn't show any AdCoO then he simply doesn't have it.


He didn't sense Shiryu because he was gullible and fell into the trap, not because his CoO is lacking. CoO works best when ur in the calm state of mind. Koby wasn't calm in that moment.
by this logic Garp never had CoC until he showed it off in the manga.

I think it's silly to think one of the strongest characters, who is referred by other marines to improve their CoO is not an expert in that field.
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Usopp could see Sugar Luffy and Law from behind a wall. That means normal CoO can see people’s SOULS without having to actual see their physical bodies

This is NORMAL low level CoO that can see people’s souls

unless Shiryu can hide his soul, even Usopp can see him, and Zoro most definitely has Usopp level CoO or better

Koby was distracted, that why Shiryu got him… remember… Koby was baited by a random pirate pretending to be civilian, and that how Shiryu managed to get close to him

so Shiryu needed a Distraction for Koby too… then he used Koby as a bait for Garp… in fact that’s what he did for Moria too, he snuck behind Moria as Moria was talking to Blackbeard

there is actually ZERO panels of Shiryu actually managing to just straight be undetected by someone above fodder level
You're making a bold assumption that Usopps CoO is a low level CoO and not a different application considering Oda has been extremely vague with how CoO works.
 
If Shiryu is Zoros next arc opponent and Garp neg diffed Shiryu then shit I don't think Zoro is reaching the top tier level anytime soon
Well yeah, Zoro at the very end of the story

Zoro has to remain Low diff material for Luffy for the entire story… So you track Zoro’s strength based on Luffy’s strength

by the time Zoro becomes a top tier, Luffy must be strong enough to Low diff a top tier… If Luffy isn’t getting ridiculously powerful then Zoro ain’t getting strong either
 
Tbh idk where the hate comes from maybe the crowd disappointed he didn’t get some diamond sword from Jozu’s fruit and hate that he got Absolom’s fruit instead I guess that could be seen as underwhelming, as much as the invisibility could be a good challenge for Zoro later. To me and a lot of others Magellan’s portrayal in impel down is still incredibly impressive, I mean for him to one shot Teach that was pretty strong in his own right, a man that has defeated Ace and that same Ace defeated Jinbe, which is why I never understood how people could say Magellan would scale to like a Katakuri post timeskip because how could he one shot high tiers? The fact Shiryu was called this guys equal if not considered more dangerous and he didn’t have a fruit, just swordsmanship/haki, I could never sleep on him. Just like you said it was his attack that turned the tides in the Garp battle it was highlighted and then the side characters started saying things like “Iron Garp” we’ve never heard such a thing before but clearly Oda wanted to make a point about Garp being tough bodied. His freeing from his cell remarking how he’s been waiting for a man like Teach almost completely mirrors Oden meeting Whitebeard as he’s also been waiting for a man like that, even going as for as them both holding the second division seat of their crews when they were clearly stronger than their peers. Now where he stands compared to Kuzan I couldn’t say just yet but we know when it comes down to it Oda would put Zoro against Shiryu as opposed to Kuzan seeing that he’s the only proper swordsman in the ship so take that how you will. Whether a third party deals either Kuzan, or he sits out or he’s revealed to be a shell of him self after his injury we’ll just have to see. I think Shiryu’s position is clear.
 
by this logic Garp never had CoC until he showed it off in the manga.

I think it's silly to think one of the strongest characters, who is referred by other marines to improve their CoO is not an expert in that field.
Yes that's right. If a character doesn't show that ability how are we supposed to know they even have it?
Also we need to let go of the idea that all top tiers have all advanced forms of Haki. Unless they showcase the advanced forms, they only have basic form of haki.
 
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You're making a bold assumption that Usopps CoO is a low level CoO and not a different application considering Oda has been extremely vague with how CoO works.
The confirmation that Zoro has CoO was in fishman island when Luffy asked Zoro and Sanji whether they can sense Caribou is in the royal palace

So not only can Zoro sense souls, he can even sense their intent, like Coby Luffy and Fujitora are shown sensing intent

not only would shiryu’s soul itself be tracked, Zoro would even be able to sense his bloodthirsty itself

again, Oda has had three chances with Shiryu to straight up have him evade CoO users… Why would Oda waste three chances to hype up a future Zoro opponent? Unless the point isn’t to hype him, it’s to put him in his place to show where Zoro himself is in the power system

Shiryu needs distractions FOR ALL THREE of his uses of his invisibility fruit so far… Meaning his fight with Zoro will also be about distractions… This is simply what Oda has decided Shiryu’s gimmick is… and Oda cannot have Zoro fight without a stupid fucking gimmick
 
Yes that's right. If a character doesn't show that ability how are we supposed to know they even have it?
because we are talking about the strongest characters in the story? Those are safe assumptions to make.

Also we need to let go of the idea that all top tiers have all advanced forms of Haki. Unless they showcase the advanced forms, they only have basic form of haki.
FS, Infusion CoA and offensive CoC are never called advanced forms in the manga, those are fan terms. What we consider advanced forms are just different forms from Oda's pov.
 
The confirmation that Zoro has CoO was in fishman island when Luffy asked Zoro and Sanji whether they can sense Caribou is in the royal palace

So not only can Zoro sense souls, he can even sense their intent, like Coby Luffy and Fujitora are shown sensing intent

not only would shiryu’s soul itself be tracked, Zoro would even be able to sense his bloodthirsty itself

again, Oda has had three chances with Shiryu to straight up have him evade CoO users… Why would Oda waste three chances to hype up a future Zoro opponent? Unless the point isn’t to hype him, it’s to put him in his place to show where Zoro himself is in the power system

Shiryu needs distractions FOR ALL THREE of his uses of his invisibility fruit so far… Meaning his fight with Zoro will also be about distractions… This is simply what Oda has decided Shiryu’s gimmick is… and Oda cannot have Zoro fight without a stupid fucking gimmick
Rayleigh knows how to block out his spirit, Shanks can kill CoO.

We have very little idea how haki works and it's different branches. Trying to pin it down as a science is a mistake. Shiryu could very well have the ability to mask his CoO and only be perceptible to higher forms like Garp's
 
Oda notied that coo is too op :milaugh:
Coo isn’t op… Oda just randomly decided to bring a useless pre time skip ability into the literal endgame if the fucking story… invisibility was fine for what it was introduced… we are passed this shit

It’s so weird that Oda cannot have Zoro just have a plain fight… Like just a Ryuma type fight… for whatever reason, there must a gimmick in each fight… invisibility with Shiryu, immortality will be the gimmick in the Nusjuro fight

I have this nagging suspicion that Oda might even add a gimmick to the Mihawk fight… Good lord
 

Seven7

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Yeah he's deadly,
But I think most of it are his own fans setting him up to be something more than he is.

Don't get wrong he's very strong but there's a bit of delusion when you place him higher than a former admiral just for agenda purposes.

Character wise I like him, great dynamic like most of the BB pirates and his sneak attacks aren't really a knock on him considering it succeeded in doing damage to Garp.
 
because we are talking about the strongest characters in the story? Those are safe assumptions to make.
Nope that's not how it works.
I can make the same case for Mihawk. But it's clear Mihawk won't have any advanced forms of Haki.
To confirm if someone has the ability, the character has to show it first

FS, Infusion CoA and offensive CoC are never called advanced forms in the manga, those are fan terms. What we consider advanced forms are just different forms from Oda's pov.
Yeah I know, it's just tiring to write those full forms when posting.
But Oda has made a distinction in base haki and advanced forms with specific indicators
 
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