Le Fishe Thread R.I.P Yonko Lvl Gaban

[Welkin]

You are saying there were three people on Roger's level (extreme diff means they were basically Akainu and Aokiji) in the same crew - this is ridiculous

Akainu vs Aokiji is a bad representation. Akainu and Aokiji are EQUAL a fight is always going to have a winner but if it takes 10 days that is the very definition of 2 dead equal fighters

I’ve never claimed all 3 of them are equal. Only that they’re close in strength

I also said high to extreme, not just extreme diff

You’re purposefully trying to misinterpret my messages. I don’t really know why

 

[Jailer]

thought I was going insane
what changed????

 

[Kōri no kokyū]

Akainu vs Aokiji is a bad representation. Akainu and Aokiji are EQUAL a fight is always going to have a winner but if it takes 10 days that is the very definition of 2 dead equal fighters

I’ve never claimed all 3 of them are equal. Only that they’re close in strength

I also said high to extreme, not just extreme diff

You’re purposefully trying to misinterpret my messages. I don’t really know why

How are they close in strength my dude?

Luffy - Broken DF , + all 3 Kinds of Haki + 3 Advanced form.
Zoro - Broken Sword , + all 3 kinds of Haki + 2 Advanced form.
Sanji - No broken ability , Only 2 kind of Haki , no Advanced form of haki.


How exactly are they comparable?

 

[Welkin]

How are they close in strength my dude?

Luffy - Broken DF , + all 3 Kinds of Haki + 3 Advanced form.
Zoro - Broken Sword , + all 3 kinds of Haki + 2 Advanced form.
Sanji - No broken ability , Only 2 kind of Haki , no Advanced form of haki.


How exactly are they comparable?

When did I say anything about Sanji? Who said anything about Sanji?

We’re talking about Gaban lol

 

[Kōri no kokyū]

When did I say anything about Sanji? Who said anything about Sanji?

We’re talking about Gaban lol

Don't give me that you all are pushing Gaban to Roger relative not because of Sanji lol.
Entire Debate has Sanji in it lol

 

[Welkin]

Don't give me that you all are pushing Gaban to Roger relative not because of Sanji lol.
Entire Debate has Sanji in it lol

Don’t say “you all” I’m my own person with my own opinions

If someone’s arguing this with Sanji in mind then quote them

I haven’t said anything about Sanji in this thread

 

[Kōri no kokyū]

Don’t say “you all” I’m my own person with my own opinions

If someone’s arguing this with Sanji in mind then quote them

I haven’t said anything about Sanji in this thread

Then how do you even push Gaban ~< Roger?

Roger and Rayleigh both are Advanced Conqueror Haki users on top of that both are called legend alongside Whitebeard.

Gaban is only said to be standing " Shoulder to shoulder " to Roger. Which is the same sentence for Arlong and Jimbei standing shoulder to shoulder.

I don't mind Gaban being on that level , but I would do require evidence based on it.
Just saying standing next to Roger and Rayleigh made him equal.
It's greenbull forged a Black blade agenda all again.

 

[ZenZu]

Then how do you even push Gaban ~< Roger?

When you're so deep into agenda, that you think reading the text from the manga is pushing something 😂

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Akainu vs Aokiji is a bad representation. Akainu and Aokiji are EQUAL a fight is always going to have a winner but if it takes 10 days that is the very definition of 2 dead equal fighters

I’ve never claimed all 3 of them are equal. Only that they’re close in strength

I also said high to extreme, not just extreme diff

You’re purposefully trying to misinterpret my messages. I don’t really know why

Bro how am I misinterpreting? You literally put those equals between them =>

Roger >= Rayleigh >= Gaban

You did mention extreme in your (high to extreme)

This is not a political debate bro - its a children's manga. If you want to say something, say it straight.

 

[Kōri no kokyū]

When you're so deep into agenda, that you think reading the text from the manga is pushing something 😂

Lmao in that case you need accept Aramaki simply admitting inferiority to Kaidou and Shanks. Lol. MIHAWK > Shanks. And also Arlong alongside jimbei.
All the best with that. It will be all mental gymnastics when it comes to that.
The irony lol , someone pushing Gaban ~< Roger and calling me deep in agenda.

 

[Welkin]

Then how do you even push Gaban ~< Roger?

Roger and Rayleigh both are Advanced Conqueror Haki users on top of that both are called legend alongside Whitebeard.

Gaban is only said to be standing " Shoulder to shoulder " to Roger. Which is the same sentence for Arlong and Jimbei standing shoulder to shoulder.

I don't mind Gaban being on that level , but I would do require evidence based on it.
Just saying standing next to Roger and Rayleigh made him equal.
It's greenbull forged a Black blade agenda all again.

That’s why my very first post in the thread is “everyone’s jumping the gun, we haven’t seen him do anything yet”

Oda’s had characters verbally gas him up but we need to see what he can do before we can properly scale him

I believe he’s going to be portrayed to be incredibly strong because of the way Oda tends to write his characters. In this chapter they’ve confirmed that Gaban is considered an old legend

One thing Oda does consistently is gas up old legends at the expense of other characters even if they eventually take an L (Garp eventually losing in Hachinosu, Rayleigh fending off Blackbeard before admitting he would lose, etc)

There is a 0% chance Oda would embarrass Gaban essentially in his introduction chapter. He’s probably going to look very good against Luffy without outright beating him which would gas up his prime strength

Whether he uses ACoC, or a level of CoO we haven’t seen, or the Power of Love, or something random that Oda pulls out of his ass idk

 

[Kōri no kokyū]

That’s why my very first post in the thread is “everyone’s jumping the gun, we haven’t seen him do anything yet”

Then stick to that instead of Gaban ~< Roger lol.

 

[ZenZu]

Lmao in that case you need accept Aramaki simply admitting inferiority to Kaidou and Shanks. Lol. MIHAWK > Shanks. And also Arlong alongside jimbei.
All the best with that. It will be all mental gymnastics when it comes to that.

Aramaki aside, yes if someone believes Mihawk is > Shanks due to WSS text they aren't necessarily pushing anything. Go touch grass instead of creating a new account every week.

There is real merit to believing Gaban and Roger were relative, this isn't something people dreamed up, it was stated in the text. You don't have to push any agenda to believe this, if anything, heavy pushback against this before anything has been proven false reeks of agenda.

 

[Welkin]

Bro how am I misinterpreting? You literally put those equals between them =>

Stronger than or equal to which implies relativity not straight up equality

Akainu and Aokiji pre timeskip were dead equal

Roger is stronger than Rayleigh but the gap isn’t huge. I don’t necessarily believe that there’s a huge gap between any top tiers really (barring Blackbeard against almost any fruitless top tier due to counters)

You did mention extreme in your (high to extreme)

This is not a political debate bro - its a children's manga. If you want to say something, say it straight.

I feel like I made it pretty straightforward

They are not dead equal they are simply relative

Just like narratively they’ve spelled out Kaido and Big Mom are supposed to be relative. Yes, Kaido would win 99/100 but within the story they’re supposed to be fairly close in strength

Roger >= Rayleigh

Kaido >= Big Mom

 

[grey matter]

Most shameless ones are Linlin wankers who use that panel like gospel. Noodle and Albino will tell you that panel is Kaido's undeniable Top 5 but Linlin>>>>Oden, please don't ask questions.

Z boys worship Kaido words as gospel and then be shocked when people do the same to put Oden above everyone that wasn't in his top

Forget Rayleigh, Oden > Mihawk since Mihawk wasn't in the famous top 5

I am one of those who do think that Kaido's "top 5" has legitimate meaning. I don't see why not, it's put there for a reason.

The key is looking at this list in context, so that you don't come to retarded conclusions.

If we look at the list, we see those are characters whom Kaido most likely had fought in the past. Oden and Shanks confirmed. Rocks and Whitebeard extremely likely given Kaido's persona, he probably challenged Rocks' crew top 2 fighters and got owned. Only Roger is a question mark, and my guess is that young Kaido is going to be Roger's hypetool in Rock's flashback (Roger's version of Blueno fight)

This explains likely stronger characters like prime Garp (undeniably superior to Oden as per any consensus), prime Rayleigh, prime Sengoku and Akainu missing in the list.

This has consistently been my take on the topic on "Kaido's top 5" for a long time. Some of my recent posts regarding this topic:

It isn't just PTSD that upscales Oden.
It's the fact that Kaido also had him in his "top 5" as characters who are benchmarks of ceiling. A reasonable interpretation is that these are the five strongest characters Kaido had faced in battle; which puts Oden at least above Big Mom in power level.

Also, Kaido was already 40 at the time, the age where characters in OP typically reach their peak.
Any improvement Kaido had was minimal at best, maybe he went from mid top tier to high top tier, but that's about it.

The simplest (and IMO most accurate) way to interpret Kaido's "top 5" are the five strongest fighters he had personally fought in the past.

This should explain Garp, Rayleigh, Sengoku not being there; even though IMO they are at minimum as strong as Oden.

The biggest implication Kaido's "top 5" has, is on Big Mom, who Kaido fought in the same arc and whom Kaido had the best personal relationship with in Rocks' crew. All 5 of them are stronger than Big Mom.

Onto Oden vs Rayleigh/Gaban, he was clearly Whitebeard's equivalent of Rayleigh, a partner type RHM who Whitebeard called 'brother' instead of 'son'.
This puts Oden closer to Rayleigh than he's to Gaban IMO

The only character that the list is truly damning to (at the moment) is Big Mom, it's funny to see those guys put "Kaido's top 5" too.
Oden > Big Mom is factual.
But given Big Mom's performance, I doubt Kaido's list is the biggest problem for her lmao

 

[park_min young]

Cry to Sandman 😂 => "this JP expression is ambiguous, so it is hard to say Gaban is in the same class as Roger and Rayleigh in terms of strength or fame"

This post from Sandman already reeks of agenda. Who said that Roger and Ray were in the same class of strength or fame prior to this?
This was actually the only concrete confirmation we’ve ever got that the two are relative, and Gaban is in the mix. Gaban is an inseparable factor if anyone ever wants to push for Roger~Ray.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

His post already reeks of agenda. Who said that Roger and Ray were in the same class of strength or fame prior to this?
This was actually the only concrete confirmation we’ve ever got that the two are relative, and Gaban is in the mix. Gaban is an inseparable factor if anyone ever wants to push for Roger~Ray.

Where did I push for Roger ~ Ray?

Stronger than or equal to which implies relativity not straight up equality

Akainu and Aokiji pre timeskip were dead equal

Roger is stronger than Rayleigh but the gap isn’t huge. I don’t necessarily believe that there’s a huge gap between any top tiers really (barring Blackbeard against almost any fruitless top tier due to counters)



I feel like I made it pretty straightforward

They are not dead equal they are simply relative

Just like narratively they’ve spelled out Kaido and Big Mom are supposed to be relative. Yes, Kaido would win 99/100 but within the story they’re supposed to be fairly close in strength

Roger >= Rayleigh

Kaido >= Big Mom

Again, I doubt the three of them were that close. The only take away could be Gaban was stronger than we previously believed.

 

[zenox]

This post from Sandman already reeks of agenda. Who said that Roger and Ray were in the same class of strength or fame prior to this?
This was actually the only concrete confirmation we’ve ever got that the two are relative,

they were always in the same ballpark ,
I can’t say they were dead equals like Roger and wb but Rayleigh was pretty much seen on the same level as whitebeard by Garp himself .

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Not sure what folks are waffling about this my TL of the relevant bits of the chapter.

Giant: In addition to Roger there were two pirates in particular that were absurdly strong that stood out from the bunch
Ussop: In addition to Rayleigh, you’re saying there was one more!?
Giants: Yes~! One upon a time…
Giants: Alongside the Vice Captain Rayleigh, he was referred to as the left hand of the Pirate King.

Usopp: Wha!!!?
Giant: I’m telling you! He’s here ! He’s been residing on Elbaf for more than 20 years now
Usopp: Really!!?
Giant: He was a legendary key figure that stood shoulder to shoulder with Roger & Rayleigh!!
Giant: The left hand of the Pirate King…
Giant: Scopper Gaban!!!!

Should be obvious but from the TL on the first page, Oda establishes Scopper’s strength & status in comparison to Roger & Rayleigh
And with the second phrase 「肩を並べた」bunches all 3 of them together. The word "equal" wouldn't be my choice of words here personally but it is in the definition of that phrase so can understand why some scans or TLs used that. Nuance here should pretty obvious regardless though

https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/肩を並べる/
Definition of the phrase can be found here.
Can always ask anyone that can speak JP to TL it for you

 

[Dark Knight Sanji]

Not sure what folks are waffling about this my TL of the relevant bits of the chapter.

Giant: In addition to Roger there were two pirates in particular that were absurdly strong that stood out from the bunch
Ussop: In addition to Rayleigh, you’re saying there was one more!?
Giants: Yes~! One upon a time…
Giants: Alongside the Vice Captain Rayleigh, he was referred to as the left hand of the Pirate King.

Usopp: Wha!!!?
Giant: I’m telling you! He’s here ! He’s been residing on Elbaf for more than 20 years now
Usopp: Really!!?
Giant: He was a legendary key figure that stood shoulder to shoulder with Roger & Rayleigh!!
Giant: The left hand of the Pirate King…
Giant: Scopper Gaban!!!!

Should be obvious but from the TL on the first page, Oda establishes Scopper’s strength & status in comparison to Roger & Rayleigh
And with the second phrase 「肩を並べた」bunches all 3 of them together. The word "equal" wouldn't be my choice of words here personally but it is in the definition of that phrase so can understand why some scans or TLs used that. Nuance here should pretty obvious regardless though

https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/肩を並べる/
Definition of the phrase can be found here.
Can always ask anyone that can speak JP to TL it for you

Sandman has a Mihawk agenda which translates into a Zoro agenda unfortunately. He isn’t as impartial as he makes himself out to be!