Questions & Mysteries Is the Toki Prophecy really about Orochi?

#1
After the recent events of the manga, it's becoming less and less likely that Toki was referring to Orochi in her prophecy.

Disclaimer. We are assuming Toki has actual prophetic powers here and it's not just a very specific threat.

First of all, Orochi got beheaded. And whether he's actually dead or not doesn't matter. The point is that his perceived importance in the story has gone down significantly since its mentioned both by him and others that his relevance was greatly hinged on Kaido's help.

Even if he's actually alive, who exactly believes this guy is worth a prophecy anymore? He no longer has followers, unless Kanjuro is alive too. He no longer has allies, since Kaido is the one who did the beheading. He's still not actually shown to be physically powerful himself.

It's really weird for the last 70 chapters of Wano to have so much focus on this prophecy and even the Oden flashback ends with it and then it's about the scabbards killing a seemingly insignificant guy plot wise.

Secondly, the scabbards in the very story itself also don't seem to care about Orochi that much. Like it would be one thing if Orochi was weak but everybody hated him still with a burning passion. But no, it doesn't seem to be the case. Shinobu even says as much that Oden HIMSELF didn't seem to actually care about Orochi. Pretty weird for this big fated conflict between the scabbards and orochi to be so dispassionate. Like let me ask. Is there any chance that if Orochi is alive, the scabbards will show as much fury and tenacity against him as they have against Kaido?

Thirdly, the people who do have more motivation to still beat Orochi have nothing to do with the prophecy. Zoro for example has Orochi on his shit list PLUS Kaido and a lot of other people and Zoro has nothing to do with the prophecy. Hiyori has outright stated to want to kill Orochi herself and there's no story reason to suggest Orochi is so powerful that she can't pull it off and again nothing to do with the prophecy. Even Momo who is about to inherit the Ame No habakiri sword that killed Orochi in mythology is also not in the prophecy.

Lastly, this battle with Kaido and Big mom could easily yield deaths. If a number of the scabbards die then when will Orochi ever face off against them even if he's alive.

All in all it begs the question whether this prophecy was about Orochi at all. Just because he's the one who was the most scared about it doesn't mean it was about him. Toki never actually mentions anything signifying Orochi in the prophecy and she never says it to his face in the first place.

So who could it be about? The obvious candidate would be Kaido. Chapter 987 even ends with the 9 shadows, the full moon and Kin'emon two pages earlier literally says "Dawn will come to Wano".

A theory I made since the first time this prophecy appeared was that this wasn't a threat. Its about Momonosuke. The prophecy mentions "You are the moon unaware of dawn" and neither Kaido nor Orochi have been associated with the moon. But Momo is a Kozuki, written as, "Moon light". The prophecy could be about the 9 Shadows (Strawhats) leading Momo into the Dawn and was entirely misinterpreted by Orochi due to his paranoia
 
S

stealthblack

#4
I'm starting to wonder If the 9 shadows are 8 supernovas + sanji, or 9 straw hats.. but they are 10 with jimbei.
 
#7
It's not a prophecy. She is reading Oden's letter to her. Toki, the person with the moon motif? Remember?, she's the Moon unaware of the dawn. Her purpose is to cast the Nine Shadows through the night woven of 20 years. Look when she's reading the prophecy, it's the same word balloon style as Oden's letter to her. We'll know the answer why when Wano is over, as Dogstorm asked too.
 
#8
It's not a prophecy. She is reading Oden's letter to her. Toki, the person with the moon motif? Remember?, she's the Moon unaware of the dawn. Her purpose is to cast the Nine Shadows through the night woven of 20 years. Look when she's reading the prophecy, it's the same word balloon style as Oden's letter to her. We'll know the answer why when Wano is over, as Dogstorm asked too.
Well she says "You are moon"

Implying she's talking about someone else.

But maybe you're right and there's just a language barrier issue. Japanese has a lot of translation issues when considering pronouns and subjectivity
 
B

Ballel

#9
It's not a prophecy. Toki learned about this dawn stuff from Oden, he told her what he has seen in Laugh Tale. Then Toki told her "prophecy" so that people hear it and don't lose hope over the next 20 years.

It was them tho who would call it "Toki's prophecy". She had no prophetic powers that have anything to do with her devil fruit.
Those are two entirely different things.
 
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#10
It's not an prophecy. Toki learned about this dawn stuff from Oden, he told her what he has seen in Laugh Tale. Then Toki told her "prophecy" so that people hear it and don't lose hope over the next 20 years.

It was them tho who would call it "Toki's prophecy". She had no prophetic powers that have anything to do with her devil fruit.
Those are two entirely different things.
So it was a misunderstanding then? Because Orochi definitely thought it was a prophecy of his demise
 
#11
At this point, I'm not sure it's a prophecy to begin with

A prophecy is something like Oden talked about 20 years from that time, a war will split the ocean...etc

Toki on the other hand, she JUST transported the scabbards into that timeline, because Oden asked her to use her powers

While Toki basically just said those words as a way "to keep Orochi pissing his pants" about getting killed by the scabbards...

To me, Toki doesn't have the power to cast a curse/prophecy!
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It's not an prophecy. Toki learned about this dawn stuff from Oden, he told her what he has seen in Laugh Tale. Then Toki told her "prophecy" so that people hear it and don't lose hope over the next 20 years.

It was them tho who would call it "Toki's prophecy". She had no prophetic powers that have anything to do with her devil fruit.
Those are two entirely different things.
Exactly this
 
#13
While Toki basically just said those words as a way "to keep Orochi pissing his pants" about getting killed by the scabbards...
What I'm questioning is whether this was her intention to begin with. Like orochi taking it as a threat to him doesn't immediately guarantee that's what she was actually intending

Also even if it's not a prophecy in-world. It's still important such an important plot point that it's weird that it's seemingly wasted on Orochi now. This prophecy was used as the opening of Act 2 and the end of the Oden flashback and it drover si many plot points from encouraging orochi's paranoia to encouraging hope in the scabbards to fight. All this has to pay off somehow even if it's not a literal prophecy. At this point it's a chekhov's gun narratively. And it really feels like the scabbards beating orochi is sort of lame as pay offs go for this really important plot device
 
#14
Well she says "You are moon"

Implying she's talking about someone else.

But maybe you're right and there's just a language barrier issue. Japanese has a lot of translation issues when considering pronouns and subjectivity

Read it again.

If it were a book, this is something like how it'd go (added a bit extra because I got too into it.)


"I want you to use your power Toki, if I should die...

Toki recalled the letter Oden had written, it's final hopeful words echoing in her mind. To the people of Wano, she shared them now to a dazed crowd.
"For you are the Moon who knows not of the dawn. May your purpose be fulfilled, and cast nine shadows into the night woven of twenty years, and you may know the brilliance of the dawn."
Life drained from her body, and she sagged to the ground.
Her purpose was fulfilled. It was up to the shadows now.
"Open the borders of the Wano Country."
She knew they could do it.
Hiyori. Momonksuke.
Toki dragged in one last, ragged breath.
I'm sorry."
 
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