Powers & Abilities Why Zoro turning Enma into a blade blade symbolises surpassing Oden

[Celestial D. Dragon]

That concept of Haki storing makes sense, obviously it doesn't diminish Zoro as one of the heroes because Enma is but a channel for Zoro to learn basics of permanent black blade.

But Zoro would surpass Oden regardless, because it is literally a foregone conclusion at this point that he is surpassing Odens best feat against Kaido.

Zoro is already Oden level in most stats like physical strength, AP, DC, lethality, endurance etc.

It's doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because in the context of the clues we are giving about "Forging" a Black Blade, there is nothing that implies it's because of having super strong Haki.

Onimaru tells us Shusui was "Forged" into a Black Blade through Ryuma's "History of Battle." It's not something he just pulled off one day out of the Blue because his Haki became strong enough. The Sword itself was "Forged through battle" which is a process. Forging something is not a one step method.

Armament Haki itself is literally the process of "Hardening". So it stands to reason that through continuous hardening of a Blade, the blade itself is being "Forged" into a harder substance, until it eventually permanently turns black. The fact that it turns black is what symbolises that the blade itself has now become a higher quality blade, as the hardness of the blade it what it's quality is based off of.

Hitetsu states that "Enma is not yet forged into a Black Blade." This implies that the process has already begun. I doubt Oden wasn't capable of turning Enma black, rather that he died before he could achieve it.

If Zoro turns Enma black, and it was partially attributed to Oden, it doesn't diminish Zoro in any way. Because through that, he will learn how the process of turning a blade black works, and will be capable of turning Wado into a black blade in not even a fraction of the time Oden spent with Enma. That is a clear indicator right there that Zoro's growth and potential, far surpasses that of Oden.

 

[Seth]

How do you not try to make black blade? Is Zoro a fucking scientist who is gonna perform all sorts of calculations, trials and errors, experiments lmao

All you need to do to "try" to make Black blade is coat your blade with Haki, if your Haki is strong enough you make black blade, if not you won't.

Mihawk literally said any blade can become black blade with Haki.
Did Oden never use Ryou to coat his blade lmaooo


Boyy what kinda drugs are you on lmaooo?

As I mention before. Oden wasn't strong enough to make his sword Black.

His power level is getting more and more overrated to the point that he might be as overrated as non-canon Bullet tbh xD.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Zolo whose whole character revolves around swords- yet he only just now find out about black blades. Confirming that only few people know about them.

Whole character about swords? **** Zoro is ignorant as fuck, he hardly knows names of different swords, unlike Tashigi, he didn't even know about Ryou until Mihawk training and Ryou is swordsmanship 101.

Where is this "way of sword" bullshit comes from? Zoro is just an Uber chad who wants to be and will be strongest swordsman ever.

He is not a sword nerd who knows all about swordsmanship.
He won't even know who Ryuma was if someone in village didn't tell him.

Zoros whole character revolves around him learning all about swordsmanship throughout his journey, not him being a sword geek who has done his research and knows it all.

Boyy your arguments are trash as fuck

 

[HA001]

It's doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because in the context of the clues we are giving about "Forging" a Black Blade, there is nothing that implies it's because of having super strong Haki.

Onimaru tells us Shusui was "Forged" into a Black Blade through Ryuma's "History of Battle." It's not something he just pulled off one day out of the Blue because his Haki became strong enough. The Sword itself was "Forged through battle" which is a process. Forging something is not a one step method.

Armament Haki itself is literally the process of "Hardening". So it stands to reason that through continuous hardening of a Blade, the blade itself is being "Forged" into a harder substance, until it eventually permanently turns black. The fact that it turns black is what symbolises that the blade itself has now become a higher quality blade, as the hardness of the blade it what it's quality is based off of.

Hitetsu states that "Enma is not yet forged into a Black Blade." This implies that the process has already begun. I doubt Oden wasn't capable of turning Enma black, rather that he died before he could achieve it.

If Zoro turns Enma black, and it was partially attributed to Oden, it doesn't diminish Zoro in any way. Because through that, he will learn how the process of turning a blade black works, and will be capable of turning Wado into a black blade in not even a fraction of the time Oden spent with Enma. That is a clear indicator right there that Zoro's growth and potential, far surpasses that of Oden.

Oden died at 39
By that age mihawk had yoru black

zoro will have 3 kokutos by 21
21 funny number that
Its the same number of years oden is on panel coating his sword in haki having you guessed it countless battles.
And by his own admission oden peaked.

So is zoro gonna have more fights to make 3 kokutos than oden did in his life ?

 

[kurwa]

Odens country worship a black blade have people who know about them so get that the fuck out of here

What does that have to do with anything? Your country might as well eat dog shit as a dessert, that doesn't mean everyone will want to eat it.

You dont have to try as ryuma proved. Youre either strong enough or you arent.

Show me a panel of Ryuma turning Shusui black then.
Can't wait for all that proof you speak of.

If it constant haki why did monet not die ?

Are you now denying that Shusui is not a black blade then? I don't understand your argument.
If black blade is turned black with CoA and shusui is always a black blade .... ye, it somehow has to keep the haki in.

I can't understand your point here... unless your point here is that black blade is worthless as shit and doesn't mean anyting. Hey, I guess you are right then

 

[Aknolagon]

LMAO now you just have to put 1% of your haki when the previous owner put 99% and it becomes 100% ? future excuses when Zoro will turn into black his swords ? haha!
Boy, that's the issue when you talk with kids, they think it's a pokemon lvl 99 and if you train it will be lvl 100

 

[ShishioIsBack]

It's doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because in the context of the clues we are giving about "Forging" a Black Blade, there is nothing that implies it's because of having super strong Haki.

Onimaru tells us Shusui was "Forged" into a Black Blade through Ryuma's "History of Battle." It's not something he just pulled off one day out of the Blue because his Haki became strong enough. The Sword itself was "Forged through battle" which is a process. Forging something is not a one step method.

Armament Haki itself is literally the process of "Hardening". So it stands to reason that through continuous hardening of a Blade, the blade itself is being "Forged" into a harder substance, until it eventually permanently turns black. The fact that it turns black is what symbolises that the blade itself has now become a higher quality blade, as the hardness of the blade it what it's quality is based off of.

Hitetsu states that "Enma is not yet forged into a Black Blade." This implies that the process has already begun. I doubt Oden wasn't capable of turning Enma black, rather that he died before he could achieve it.

If Zoro turns Enma black, and it was partially attributed to Oden, it doesn't diminish Zoro in any way. Because through that, he will learn how the process of turning a blade black works, and will be capable of turning Wado into a black blade in not even a fraction of the time Oden spent with Enma. That is a clear indicator right there that Zoro's growth and potential, far surpasses that of Oden.

Yeah I am not buying this sword container thing.

Black blade is life long process but its life long of Haki blooming buy even then only exception of exception reach that level.

Now Enma is gonna assist in that because once Zoros Haki blooms to a certain level (beyond Odens), its Haki sticking property would pull enough Ryou, required to make black blade.

But normal blade would require even stronger Haki.

 

[Seth]

Can't wait for people river of tears when Zoro basically make 3 swords Black before 30.

This will be such a fun time to be in a One Piece community.

I wonder what Anti Zoros arguments would be? Sanji kicked Page One? or that Zoro fell asleep after one-shotting Killer?

 

[HA001]

What does that have to do with anything? Your country might as well eat dog shit as a dessert, that doesn't mean everyone will want to eat it.


Show me a panel of Ryuma turning Shusui black then.
Can't wait for all that proof you speak of.

Are you now denying that Shusui is not a black blade then? I don't understand your argument.
If black blade is turned black with CoA and shusui is always a black blade .... ye, it somehow has to keep the haki in.

I can't understand your point here... unless your point here is that black blade is worthless as shit and doesn't mean anyting. Hey, I guess you are right then

Youre that much of a cornered rat you now questioning if ryuma made shusui black.

You saying its got its old welders haki turd for brains
So if it does why is monet alive
Maybe just maybe a blackblade is better in someones whose haki was strong enough to forge it than someone else

Unless you think ryuma in his prime wouldnt beat pre skip zoro if they both had shusui

Your arguments are shit and biased and easily refuted
Concession accepted

 

[kurwa]

youre that much of a cornered rat you now questioning if ryuma made shusui black.

You saying its got its old welders haki turd for brains
So if it does why is monet alive
Maybe just maybe a blackblade is better in someones whose haki was strong enough to forge it than someone else

Unless you think ryuma in his prime wouldnt beat pre skip zoro if they both had shusui

Your arguments are shit and biased and easily refuted
Concession accepted

Whoa slow down there kiddo, I don't think you understand what you are saying
1. Black blades are blades with CoA that are black constantly. Yes or No?
2. If blade is black constantly, that means it has the ability to somehow keep that haki in. Yes or No?

If it keeps that haki in, what's stopping it from keeping his other wielders haki in?
Unless you are saying that the blade is forged on a whim and not through out the battles.

If it's forged through battles- it has to somehow keep that experience in
if it's forged on a whim- then we never once saw Oden sit down and try to make a black blade, further proving he never cared about that shit.

Your monet argument only works against you:
either black blade has nothing to do with CoA and black blades mean absolute nothing or Ryuma's haki is sooo weak it can't even hurt Monet.

Why isn't Mihawk's dagger a black blade then? If you only need haki and poof you have a black blade. Then mihawk should have bunch of black blades by now.
Btw where are the Oden wanting to create black blades panels at?

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Yeah I am not buying this sword container thing.

Black blade is life long process but its life long of Haki blooming buy even then only exception of exception reach that level.

Now Enma is gonna assist in that because once Zoros Haki blooms to a certain level (beyond Odens), its Haki sticking property would pull enough Ryou, required to make black blade.

But normal blade would require even stronger Haki.

Nope, there is major fault in this. Because by this Logic, Ryuma should have been capable of just walking around and picking anything up he wants, and turning it black. That's ridiculous, cause there is no indication in the manga whatsoever that something like that is possible. There is no "forging" involved in that, cause again, forging is not a one step process.

We are not told "Ryuma bloomed his haki to the point where he was able to turn Shusui Black."

We are explicitly told that through constant battle, Shusui itself was forged into a Black Blade. Nothing implies that the constant battles was increasing his Haki, and then his haki became so strong, he was finally able to just blacken the blade. If that's the case, then using Armament Haki, on an already Blackened Blade would be completely pointless. That means your Haki will never be strong enough to make a Blackened Blade harder than it already is. So why on Earth would Zoro be using Armament Haki on Shusui, if the blade is already too high of quality in comparison to his Armament Haki? It makes zero sense. You can't make something harder, that's already become so hard due to God Tier Haki.

 

[HA001]

Nope, there is major fault in this. Because by this Logic, Ryuma should have been capable of just walking around and picking anything up he wants, and turning it black. That's ridiculous, cause there is no indication in the manga whatsoever that something like that is possible. There is no "forging" involved in that, cause again, forging is not a one step process.

We are not told "Ryuma bloomed his haki to the point where he was able to turn Shusui Black."

We are explicitly told that through constant battle, Shusui itself was forged into a Black Blade. Nothing implies that the constant battles was increasing his Haki, and then his haki became so strong, he was finally able to just blacken the blade. If that's the case, then using Armament Haki, on an already Blackened Blade would be completely pointless. That means your Haki will never be strong enough to make a Blackened Blade harder than it already is. So why on Earth would Zoro be using Armament Haki on Shusui, if the blade is already too high of quality in comparison to his Armament Haki? It makes zero sense. You can't make something harder, that's already become so hard due to God Tier Haki.

Cap. Ryuma was a one sword user.

Zoro will do exactly that and make 3 of them.

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2020

Whoa slow down there kiddo, I don't think you understand what you are saying
1. Black blades are blades with CoA that are black constantly. Yes or No?
2. If blade is black constantly, that means it has the ability to somehow keep that haki in. Yes or No?

If it keeps that haki in, what's stopping it from keeping his other wielders haki in?
Unless you are saying that the blade is forged on a whim and not through out the battles.

If it's forged through battles- it has to somehow keep that experience in
if it's forged on a whim- then we never once saw Oden sit down and try to make a black blade, further proving he never cared about that shit.

Your monet argument only works against you:
either black blade has nothing to do with CoA and black blades mean absolute nothing or Ryuma's haki is sooo weak it can't even hurt Monet.

Why isn't Mihawk's dagger a black blade then? If you only need haki and poof you have a black blade. Then mihawk should have bunch of black blades by now.
Btw where are the Oden wanting to create black blades panels at?

Black blades are forged using haki.
Once forged the sword becomes black harder tougher and rises in rank.

IT DOES NOT HOLD HAKI ON IT OR MONET WOULD HAVE DIED TO ZORO.

Where are panels of anyone trying to make a black blade ? 2 people have already done it and you say they didnt try yet oden has to try.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Cap. Ryuma was a one sword user.

Zoro will do exactly that and make 3 of them.

What does that matter? Zoro uses Armament Haki on Shusui, which ups the quality of Hardness, on an already blackened Blade.

Unless you want to say Zoro using Armament Haki is just for aesthetics, and it does absolutely nothing to strengthen his attacks with Shusui. And if that's the case, did Zoro achieve cutting Pica of his own merit, or was it because he had Ryuma's super duper sword, that isn't affected by armament haki? It's just that strong because Ryuma made it so.... :zorothink:

 

[T.D.A]

Oden isn't zoro benchmark

Oden is Luffy benchmark, he freaking has CoC and VoaT
Luffy and Strawhats will do what oden and 9 retainers couldn't, Luffy will free Wano from Kaido.

Luffy inherited Oden's will. Oda even had to draw Roger Oden and Luffy by saying "inherited will"

Garp has CoC, most likely has it.
You think one of the main dudes who fought at God valley, who rivaled Chinjao, Roger, WB, Xebec, Sengoku... Lacks CoC?

DR, only Luffy gets to beat Chinjao and Doffy
WCI, only Luffy gets to surpass/equal Kata
Wano, only Luffy gets to surpass Oden
Etc...
Only Luffy gets to beat CoC users and surpass top CoC users

Also, find me where Tengu or anyone has said Zoro will surpass or has to surpass Oden.

Vivrebook says Garp doesn't have CoC so you can't invent headcanon to support your argument. If down the line Garp is revealed to have CoC then we can adjust but a canon source literally specifies he doesn't.

Zoro inherited Oden's will the very moment he inherited Enma.

Using your logic, Zoro can't have surpassed Arlong because Luffy surpassed Arlong

 

[HA001]

What does that matter? Zoro uses Armament Haki on Shusui, which ups the quality of Hardness, on an already blackened Blade.

Unless you want to say Zoro using Armament Haki is just for aesthetics, and it does absolutely nothing to strengthen his attacks with Shusui. And if that's the case, did Zoro achieve cutting Pica of his own merit, or was it because he had Ryuma's super duper sword, that isn't affected by armament haki? It's just that strong because Ryuma made it so.... :zorothink:

? What does that have to do with what i said to you.
You said ryuma only made one black blade
I said its because he only used one sword
Zoro uses 3 and will make 3 black
Why the fuck are you running else where ?

 

[bennbeckman]

Can't wait to see Zoro turn Enma Black, gonna be an epic moment in OP

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

? What does that have to do with what i said to you.
You said ryuma only made one black blade
I said its because he only used one sword
Zoro uses 3 and will make 3 black
Why the fuck are you running else where ?

Then what the fuck were you quoting my post in the first place for, when your reply had nothing to do with what I was talking about. In fact, your response, hurts your cause. By your logic that super strong Haki turns blades black, then Ryuma should be capable of turning anything black that he wants to, and Zoro turning three blades black doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things, because all he has to do is train his haki to the level where he can turn one sword black, and after that he's on easy street with his other two swords.

 

[HA001]

Then what the fuck were you quoting my post in the first place for, when your reply had nothing to do with what I was talking about. In fact, your response, hurts your cause. By your logic that super strong Haki turns blades black, then Ryuma should be capable of turning anything black that he wants to, and Zoro turning three blades black doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things, because all he has to do is train his haki to the level where he can turn whatever he wants black, and after that he's on easy street with his other two swords.

DUH thats the whole fucking point you dumbass.
Youre saying ryuma cant do that how do you know ? He only used ONE sword
Zoro will do the same as ryuma and make a kokuto but hes 3 swords and will do it THREE TIMES
Is that clear enough for you genius.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

DUH thats the whole fucking point you dumbass.
Youre saying ryuma cant do that how do you know ? He only used ONE sword
Zoro will do the same as ryuma and make a kokuto but hes 3 swords and will do it THREE TIMES
Is that clear enough for you genius.

*Sigh* again, you fail to understand anything. There is literally no indication in the manga stated anywhere that Ryuma was capable of turning whatever he wanted black. ONLY that he was capable of turning Shusui black through constant battles. It's what the story is implying that I am basing my reasonings behind, and you are just pulling shit out of you ass and acting like that how the story goes. You're going completely against what we are being told in the manga, and using your own head cannons to base your arguments.

Now if Onimaru would have said "Through constant battles Ryuma achieved the level of Haki to blacken whatever he wants" you'd have a leg to stand on. But that manga panel only exists in your mind, and is not what we are told in the actual story.

 

[HA001]

*Sigh* again, you fail to understand anything. There is literally no indication in the manga stated anywhere that Ryuma was capable of turning whatever he wanted black. ONLY that he was capable of turning Shusui black through constant battles. It's what the story is implying that I am basing my reasonings behind, and you are just pulling shit out of you ass and acting like that how the story goes. You're going completely against what we are being told in the manga, and using your own head cannons to base your arguments.

Now if Onimaru would have said "Through constant battles Ryuma achieved the level of Haki to blacken whatever he wants" you'd have a leg to stand on. But that manga panel only takes place in your mind, and is not what we are told in the actual story.

I can destroy that panel with one point and its something you ran away from earlier.
Zoro will leave wano with 3 swords that he has had with for a different length of time and all 3 have different history of battles yet by eos which in story time will be months max if that will have 3 kokutos.