Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1157 Spoilers Discussion

[ZenZu]

There is no rule about them being balanced per team lol. That's headcanon, they were looking for replacements for Orochimaru and found Deidara, who is in no way equal to Orochimaru. That team is immediately signifciantly weaker than before.

Hidan was only paired with Kakuzu because he couldn't die, etc.

Their entire dynamic is functioning teams that can capture a Jinchuuriki, not that each team has to roughly equal the same level. That's a you invention.

Kakashi was stronger than Kakuzu. If Naruto didn't show up, he's confident he'd be in the hospital for using Kamui. So he's 100% confident he's beating Kakuzu.

Never portrayed that way. Kisame always gets lil brod. This isn't simply about feats.

Itachi told Kisame to sit tf down or Kakashi will hurt him. Kishi never presented Kakashi as even on Kakuzu's lvl. Kakashi was immediately portrayed on Kisame's level the first time they interacted. Gai proved it too.

And again, there is a pattern with the cells no matter how much you deny it. They aren't giving Itachi someone they think is stronger than Kakuzu or Sasori. And leave the other cells short. Nor is Kishi doing that, it would be smarter to let Kisame lead a cell if he was him.

 

[Definitivo]

@TheAncientCenturion @Bogard Ban for those who talk about Naruto

 

[Wuuuke]

I never got that part for Orochimaru's Edo Tensei. As far as we're aware, Kabuto's came back at 100%.

I've always been under the impression that when Orochimaru absorbed Kabuto's memories he also gained knowledge of Kabuto's perfected Edo Tensei and used that version to revive the Hokage

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Never portrayed that way. Kisame always gets lil brod. This isn't simply about feats.

Itachi told Kisame to sit tf down or Kakashi will hurt him. Kishi never presented Kakashi as even on Kakuzu's lvl.

He actually wrote it out that Kakashi would kill Kakuzu and I do think he is written on that level in the fight.

2v1, Kakashi avoids Hidan & Kakuzu's wind strike, then jumps around to intercept Gian point blank and has to waste chakra on Choji and Ino. That makes 4x Raikiri and kakashi even comments on his chakra exhaustion;

Spoiler

Without him babysitting the kids and having to clash with Hidan, he's not as exhausted against Kakuzu. And even if base Kakashi comes up short in the end, it's confirmed Kamui kills Kakuzu.

 

[MarineHQ]

@TheAncientCenturion @Bogard Ban for those who talk about Naruto

Buddy Tac literally talks about it the most 🤣

 

[ZenZu]

He actually wrote it out that Kakashi would kill Kakuzu and I do think he is written on that level in the fight.

2v1, Kakashi avoids Hidan & Kakuzu's wind strike, then jumps around to intercept Gian point blank and has to waste chakra on Choji and Ino. That makes 4x Raikiri and kakashi even comments on his chakra exhaustion;

Spoiler

Without him babysitting the kids and having to clash with Hidan, he's not as exhausted against Kakuzu. And even if base Kakashi comes up short in the end, it's confirmed Kamui kills Kakuzu.

No he didn't. He was talking about surviving Kakuzu's attack which was gonna obliterate him. He would have used kamui on the incoming attack and bought himself some time.

Kamui at that time couldn't even solve Kakuzu as busted as it is. He attacks from too many angles and has multiple hearts that can revive him.

Nor does it matter because Kakashi who was portrayed to be a threat to Kisame didn't have Kamui.

 

[soupongo]

Never portrayed that way. Kisame always gets lil brod. This isn't simply about feats.

Itachi told Kisame to sit tf down or Kakashi will hurt him. Kishi never presented Kakashi as even on Kakuzu's lvl. Kakashi was immediately portrayed on Kisame's level the first time they interacted. Gai proved it too.

And again, there is a pattern with the cells no matter how much you deny it. They aren't giving Itachi someone they think is stronger than Kakuzu or Sasori. And leave the other cells short. Nor is Kishi doing that.

from a meta perspective that might be true(though Kishi doesn´t really care about balance, look at how weak the sand is compared to the leaf etc)

But in universe, teams are being sent on different missions for different tailed beasts. Obviously pain going after the nine tails and destroying Konoha is harder then hunting like the, 2 tails, lol. And we know Itachi was originally assigned to be a partner with Kisame like 10 years before ship, when Sasori was partnered with Itachi, and I don´t think Kakazu or Hidan were even members at the time). What matters most in teams is that they can work ¨well¨ together

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I've always been under the impression that when Orochimaru absorbed Kabuto's memories he also gained knowledge of Kabuto's perfected Edo Tensei and used that version to revive the Hokage

It'd make sense but none of Kabuto's Edo Tensei comment or share that weakness, it's not mentioned until Orochimaru uses it

 

[Definitivo]

Buddy Tac literally talks about it the most 🤣

He should be banned

 

[ElderOnitar]

@TheAncientCenturion @Bogard Ban for those who talk about Naruto

half the naruto talk here comes from TAC, lol.

 

[MarineHQ]

He should be banned

I agree. Tac and Rayan should get banned. Unfortunately for us the person that could get it done is fricking @AL sama. Dude's allergic to doing practically anything.

 

[ZenZu]

from a meta perspective that might be true(though Kishi doesn´t really care about balance, look at how weak the sand is compared to the leaf etc)

But in universe, teams are being sent on different missions for different tailed beasts. Obviously pain going after the nine tails and destroying Konoha is harder then hunting like the, 2 tails, lol. And we know Itachi was originally assigned to be a partner with Kisame like 10 years before ship, when Sasori was partnered with Itachi, and I don´t think Kakazu or Hidan were even members at the time)

Kakuzu is probably one of the oldest members.

I just don't think Kisame was him. He wouldn't be paired with Itachi if he was. Akatsuki leader (as well as Kishi) would probably want him to lead a cell with a weaker member if he is the next strongest after Itachi. Kisame was never presented in this manner.

Kishi always took the time to make sure Kisame was portrayed clearly below JMan, and on par with Kakashi. Sasori had the strongest Kazekage as his puppet, had someone as strong as Deidara calling him master, and was toppling nations. He was never portrayed below Orochimaru the way Kisame put himself beneath Jiraiya.

Quite frankly Kisame's portrayal is fanfiction. It's his feats later on since he outlasted everyone which is making people rewrite his initial placement.

 

[Wuuuke]

It'd make sense but none of Kabuto's Edo Tensei comment or share that weakness, it's not mentioned until Orochimaru uses it

I mean we also have Hashirama saying that Madara once being revived through the Rinne Tensei is "regaining his past strength" which to me is another indication that the Edo Tensei's weren't quite on the same level as their alive counterparts, just much closer than they were compared to Orochimaru's usage of it in part 1, which is an effective method of explaining away the blatant power creep

Post automatically merged: Aug 12, 2025

I mean we also have Hashirama saying that Madara once being revived through the Rinne Tensei is "regaining his past strength" which to me is another indication that the Edo Tensei's weren't quite on the same level as their alive counterparts, just much closer than they were compared to Orochimaru's usage of it in part 1, which is an effective method of explaining away the blatant power creep

Like I feel like we can pretty easily deduce the version of edo tensei Orochimaru used in the 4GNW is much stronger than the version he used in part 1 and the only way that makes sense is that he learned it from Kabuto's memories when he absorbed them

 

[soupongo]

Kakuzu is probably one of the oldest members.

I just don't think Kisame was him. He wouldn't be paired with Itachi if he was. Akatsuki leader (as well as Kishi) would probably want him to lead a cell with a weaker member if he is the next strongest after Itachi. Kisame was never presented in this manner.

Kishi always took the time to make sure Kisame was portrayed clearly below JMan, and on par with Kakashi. Sasori had the strongest Kazekage as his puppet, had someone as strong as Deidara calling him master, and was toppling nations. He was never portrayed below Orochimaru the way Kisame put himself beneath Jiraiya.

Quite frankly Kisame's portrayal is fanfiction. It's his feats later on since he outlasted everyone which is making people rewrite his initial placement.

Yeah, looks like you´re right. I forgot a lot about his character, but looking through the wiki, apperantly he had 4 partners over time he kept killing(idk if filler or canon) but I guess he´s an OG.

Kisame is one of my favorites, but I don´t remember his feats very well, so I won´t argue on that. I think him and Itachi were only partnered for compatibility, and Kisame was the most loyal, while Itachi was the least, so Obito probably wanted them partnered for that reason, though out of universe that´s a valid argument when talking about Kishi.

I´m not entirely sure about Sasori, but yeah, the fact that he was a kage killer and orochi´s partner could probably put his portrayal above anyone but the big 3(though he is a Sakura victim...which is unfortunate)

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Shiki got the same silly side as in Strong World, I wonder if Oda rewatched the movie before this flashback to keep some continuity even if he could have go for his own version

 

[Shiroyru]

@TheAncientCenturion @MarineHQ @ZenZu

Facts or cap:

After the doujutsu trio, Kisame and Orochimaru are indisputably above the others in power level

 

[Shiroyru]

Kakuzu is probably one of the oldest members.

I just don't think Kisame was him. He wouldn't be paired with Itachi if he was. Akatsuki leader (as well as Kishi) would probably want him to lead a cell with a weaker member if he is the next strongest after Itachi. Kisame was never presented in this manner.

Kishi always took the time to make sure Kisame was portrayed clearly below JMan, and on par with Kakashi. Sasori had the strongest Kazekage as his puppet, had someone as strong as Deidara calling him master, and was toppling nations. He was never portrayed below Orochimaru the way Kisame put himself beneath Jiraiya.

Quite frankly Kisame's portrayal is fanfiction. It's his feats later on since he outlasted everyone which is making people rewrite his initial placement.

“A man who was strong enough to be paired with Itachi”

 

[Shiroyru]

Shiki got the same silly side as in Strong World, I wonder if Oda rewatched the movie before this flashback to keep some continuity even if he could have go for his own version

Oda also made Shiki’s Strong World power level canon btw

 

[soupongo]

@TheAncientCenturion @MarineHQ @ZenZu

Facts or cap:

After the doujutsu trio, Kisame and Orochimaru are indisputably above the others in power level

Did you fold on Deidara>Orochimaru lmao?

 

[Wuuuke]

@TheAncientCenturion @MarineHQ @ZenZu

Facts or cap:

After the doujutsu trio, Kisame and Orochimaru are indisputably above the others in power level

Cap, It's Sasori and Orochimaru with Kisame's power floor being lower and ceiling being higher