Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love
- Thread starter RayanOO
- Start date
- Tags add rayan to the poll keep reloaded out reloaded is innocent sanji bodies goofy cry about it wanji szn who let reloaded in???
Provides a page proving my point (i.e Sanji improving his AP with his IJ power-up to defeat Queen) -> thinks it refutes my point.
When you jokingly threatened to threadban people, I said no one will take your threat seriously with that avy of yours.
Repeating jokes is like explaining them, it makes them lamer.
When you jokingly threatened to threadban people, I said no one will take your threat seriously with that avy of yours.
Repeating jokes is like explaining them, it makes them lamer.
@Royal Kick
I don't understand the point you're making here. Sanji getting an offense based power up doesn't mean he has an AP issue. Just like Zoro receiving Enma then ACOC, both of which are primarily AP power ups, doesn't mean Zoro had an ongoing AP issue that needed to be resolved. Same applies to Luffy, who trained weeks to gain advanced Coa then needed Acoc then needed to awaken his DF just to deal enough damage to Kaido. What you're referencing is presentation, Sanji's attacks don't seem to be as flashy and visually impactful. As well as the fact that Sanji's fighting style has always been combo/volume based, this isn't him lacking AP. Oda isn't going to change his fighting style to indicate that he no longer has an "AP problem".
Sanji also improved his speed. By Oda's own words, Sanji "obtained the power to disappear". So, clearly Sanji gained a speed based power up in his fight with Queen, does this mean that he had an ongoing speed problem?. Does this also mean that Zoro had more of an AP problem than a speed one because he improved in the former rather than the latter?.
The issue isn't saying that Sanji needs powerups to beat his opponents, this can be applied to Luffy and Zoro. The issue is the implication that Sanji, in specific, gains offensive powerups because he is presented as having an ongoing AP issue while ignoring that Luffy and Zoro, throughout the series, have been getting a slew of AP boosts. Zoro getting stronger swords, Ashura, Enma and Acoc; Luffy with gear 3, Boundman, Acoa/internal destruction, Acoc and his awakening. All these were either exclusively AP boosts or apart of the improvement. But no one says that these two have an AP problem. Framing one improvement as "necessary because of a weakness" while not doing the same for the rest, is a double standard.
I don't understand the point you're making here. Sanji getting an offense based power up doesn't mean he has an AP issue. Just like Zoro receiving Enma then ACOC, both of which are primarily AP power ups, doesn't mean Zoro had an ongoing AP issue that needed to be resolved. Same applies to Luffy, who trained weeks to gain advanced Coa then needed Acoc then needed to awaken his DF just to deal enough damage to Kaido. What you're referencing is presentation, Sanji's attacks don't seem to be as flashy and visually impactful. As well as the fact that Sanji's fighting style has always been combo/volume based, this isn't him lacking AP. Oda isn't going to change his fighting style to indicate that he no longer has an "AP problem".
Sanji also improved his speed. By Oda's own words, Sanji "obtained the power to disappear". So, clearly Sanji gained a speed based power up in his fight with Queen, does this mean that he had an ongoing speed problem?. Does this also mean that Zoro had more of an AP problem than a speed one because he improved in the former rather than the latter?.
The issue isn't saying that Sanji needs powerups to beat his opponents, this can be applied to Luffy and Zoro. The issue is the implication that Sanji, in specific, gains offensive powerups because he is presented as having an ongoing AP issue while ignoring that Luffy and Zoro, throughout the series, have been getting a slew of AP boosts. Zoro getting stronger swords, Ashura, Enma and Acoc; Luffy with gear 3, Boundman, Acoa/internal destruction, Acoc and his awakening. All these were either exclusively AP boosts or apart of the improvement. But no one says that these two have an AP problem. Framing one improvement as "necessary because of a weakness" while not doing the same for the rest, is a double standard.
Somehow, the fans just being real always parrot the talking points of haters. 
Actual fans know Sanji's AP has never been in question, pre or post Haki.
Actual fans know Sanji's AP has never been in question, pre or post Haki.
Sanji did that before the TS. What he achieved on Thriller Bark is much better than anything he did during the entire post TS. Sanji fighting-wise is stale, CoC just made it much more apparent. There is no strength behind his kicks, no grace in his movements and DJ can barely burn his opponents.
The quality of fights in OP has plummeted. Sanji's style was so fast paced and gracious it is no wonder he suffered the most out of the M3
Isn't that what it means? If Zoro needed those tools to defeat King, doesn't that mean he had a relative AP issue against King? And he resolved it with greater AP. It all depends on what you need to defeat your opponent, really.
That applies to Luffy as well, AP was an issue before his training. That's why his attacks didn't do shit to Kaido and he needed to improve his AP significantly to be able to hurt him. It was his relative weakness against Kaido before he solved it, yet no one would dare to say pre-Onigashima Luffy had shit AP. That's not the point.
No, Sanji didn't have a speed problem against Queen because his speed gain isn't the reason he was able to defeat Queen. He could already land hits before the speed boost and still needed greater AP after the speed boost to finish him off.
I appreciate your ability to discuss this calmly, btw. Thanks.
That applies to Luffy as well, AP was an issue before his training. That's why his attacks didn't do shit to Kaido and he needed to improve his AP significantly to be able to hurt him. It was his relative weakness against Kaido before he solved it, yet no one would dare to say pre-Onigashima Luffy had shit AP. That's not the point.
No, Sanji didn't have a speed problem against Queen because his speed gain isn't the reason he was able to defeat Queen. He could already land hits before the speed boost and still needed greater AP after the speed boost to finish him off.
I appreciate your ability to discuss this calmly, btw. Thanks.
That's the difference I'm stressing here. It's not so much of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji having a general AP issue. Rather, that they may not have enough AP, speed, durability etc to defeat their current opposition. I don't agree with framing it as "Sanji lacks AP" but rather "His opponent is very tough to put down without an improvement in AP". Using the fact of a character gaining a powerup to argue that they have a general lack of a certain stat has to then be applied wholesale. So when Luffy and Zoro gain AP based powerups, I can say "well they have an AP issue that's why Oda felt the need to give them said powerup", which I don't agree with. It is true though that Zoro excels in offense more than Sanji, but this will never change. Just like Sanji excels in defense and speed more than Zoro, this will also never change. It's simply a difference in fighting styles, which rely on certain stats more than others. But just because Sanji's style doesn't rely as heavily on overwhelming offense, doesn't mean this is an issue, nor does it mean Sanji lacks offensively, it's by design. Sanji will continue to defeat his opponents in combinations, while Zoro does so with finishers. Not because of weakness, but because they are different fighters who excel in different fields.
Vasco shot (in red) is the biggest bum ever, got taken out twice in the span of minutes...
And Pizzaro (in blue) also got taken out - you know ''Sanji's match up''. But ''Nami's Match up'' Laffite was able to react to Aokiji lmao
Talk about portrayal.
And Pizzaro (in blue) also got taken out - you know ''Sanji's match up''. But ''Nami's Match up'' Laffite was able to react to Aokiji lmao
Talk about portrayal.
Queen was only allowed to suffer actual pressure from Big Mom previously to Onigashima's raid, no one else could touch him, not even Luffy.
It's only expected that one of Sanji's final opponents don't get treated like that... But he tanked Garp's punch to the face quite well u know.. Getting frozen by Aokiji like that, despite being a bad showing, is ok given he these guys are going to keep going stronger.. and Kuzan is Garp's previous pupil and Fleet Admiral material.
That's what I've been saying all along, that's why I'm talking about relative AP issue, not general AP issue. If they don't have enough AP against a particular foe, it means they have an AP issue against them. Obviously, if you take out the term "relative", it completely changes the statement and you dispute something I never claimed to begin with.
I talked about relative AP weakness in the context of a potential fight against Pizarro in which Sanji would need a PU improving his AP to take down Pizarro's giant rock form, that's how it started. I believe Oda is gonna introduce an ultimate Jambe form more advanced than DJ and IJ, likely with CoC infusion. That'd be the logical next step in what has been a trend in regard to Sanji's progression since EL.
I talked about relative AP weakness in the context of a potential fight against Pizarro in which Sanji would need a PU improving his AP to take down Pizarro's giant rock form, that's how it started. I believe Oda is gonna introduce an ultimate Jambe form more advanced than DJ and IJ, likely with CoC infusion. That'd be the logical next step in what has been a trend in regard to Sanji's progression since EL.
I see what you mean. Yes, in that context, Sanji may need to improve his AP if his approach to defeating Pizzaro is to destroy his Island body. Though, he could just locate his real body and deal with that. But this is part of the reason why I don't think Sanji gains much from fighting Pizarro. We know Sanji is capable of destroying bedrock and it's not necessary for Sanji's power progression to gain the ability to destroy an Island. That wouldn't really match his fighting style nor the approach he would take in such fights. Also there is the issue of redundancy. He already got a general physical boost through the Germa Genes and AP boost in IJ. It's time for Oda to address his Obs, which is his specialty. I feel like the natural next step for Sanji is to gain some form of advanced haki, which will most likely be something observation related. Because of this, Laffitte seems like the perfect fit. A character who can mess with his mind, is fast, can fly and possesses the ability to conceal his presence. This will push Sanji in a way he hasn't been pushed before as a fighter. Now, eventually he will need to further improve his AP to defeat top tier enemies, but he also has to be advanced in other fields.
Vasco shot (in red) is the biggest bum ever, got taken out twice in the span of minutes...
And Pizzaro (in blue) also got taken out - you know ''Sanji's match up''. But ''Nami's Match up'' Laffite was able to react to Aokiji lmao
Talk about portrayal.
And Pizzaro (in blue) also got taken out - you know ''Sanji's match up''. But ''Nami's Match up'' Laffite was able to react to Aokiji lmao
Talk about portrayal.
Lafittes always had special portrayal among the BBP.
