Character Discussion Wasn't Xebec supposed to be evil or something?

[soupongo]

And all were prolly evil towns

They might have had evil leadership, but the idea that corruption gives you a right to wipe a town off the map is obviously immoral, since civilians aren´t at fault for what their governments do.

he wanted to free the world from the evil wg

He was a good dude

He opposed the world government, but I don´t think he´s even really tried to frame his opposition to the world government as a moral issue, as opposed to simply wanting to rule the world, just like Kaido, Big mom, Shiki, Blackbeard, Crocodile, Doflamingo etc. Pretty common for every OP villain, and the obvious connection between Rocks and them is, is not hard to catch on, especially when we know a good amount of them worked for Rocks previously, or worked for someone who worked for him, all sharing ambition, opposition to the WG, and an obvious disregard for human life.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

They might have had evil leadership, but the idea that corruption gives you a right to wipe a town off the map is obviously immoral, since civilians aren´t at fault for what their governments do.

who told you he killed civvies?

He opposed the world government, but I don´t think he´s even really tried to frame his opposition to the world government as a moral issue, as opposed to simply wanting to rule the world, just like Kaido, Big mom, Shiki, Blackbeard, Crocodile, Doflamingo etc. Pretty common for every OP villain, and the obvious connection between Rocks and them is, is not hard to catch on, especially when we know a good amount of them worked for Rocks previously, or worked for someone who worked for him, all sharing ambition, opposition to the WG, and an obvious disregard for human life.

we don't know the inner workings and machinations of Xebec's mind and his goals. Everything you just wrote is conjecture.

He knew about imu being the secret ruler of the world. It's pretty easy to think that he grew up on stories of Imu's evil deeds from his Davy family, and he was trying to take down imu because of his family's progenitor's legacy. Which is the Original Davy Jones, who was most likely defeated and imprisoned by imu.

So yes, we can absolutely frame his opposition to the WG as moral. Nothing he's done has been evidence to the contrary.

 

[RayanOO]

He beat the shit out of Loki

Even that was retconned and toned down by Oda

Xebec was presented having no chill to stab kid Loki and giving shit about WB but on panel he only send a shockwave toward Loki and wasn’t thattt bad

Xebec was this before his real intro

We didn’t really see that Xebec on panel

Also the Rocks crew indeed cause some mayhem but the island they raided on panel was some shady cult that was stealing money from people

Once again diminishing the crime the Rocks were committing

Same now with Xebec going in GV not for some treasure but to save his family or Rocks having a friendship with Harald etc

Oda did good with Xebec and I like him but he went a little bit out of his way to paint him a little bit too good compared to what he was supposed to be

 

[moreha9685]

He beat the shit out of Loki

Yeah, but have you seen how ugly and creepy that baby was?

 

[ConquistadoR]

Chadbec did nothing wrong.

 

[mmd]

Even that was retconned and toned down by Oda

Xebec was presented having no chill to stab kid Loki and giving shit about WB but on panel he only send a shockwave toward Loki and wasn’t thattt bad

Xebec was this before his real intro

We didn’t really see that Xebec on panel

Also the Rocks crew indeed cause some mayhem but the island they raided on panel was some shady cult that was stealing money from people

Once again diminishing the crime the Rocks were committing

Same now with Xebec going in GV not for some treasure but to save his family or Rocks having a friendship with Harald etc

Oda did good with Xebec and I like him but he went a little bit out of his way to paint him a little bit too good compared to what he was supposed to be

This is usually a game that writers play with readers
A villain with a beautiful design and charismatic personality is what they use to fool us
For example, Madara is the devil himself, but many people like him
Or I remember watching a movie where the main character was a murderer and rapist, but because he was beautiful, the fans of the movie strangely supported him, even though we all know that person is definitely the devil
Yes, Rocks doesn't have a black characterization, but we can put him in the gray characters.

 

[soupongo]

who told you he killed civvies?

What happens when you wipe towns off the map and destroy countries?

we don't know the inner workings and machinations of Xebec's mind and his goals. Everything you just wrote is conjecture.

Why would we need to? We also don´t know the inner workings and machinations of Doflamingo, Kaidos, Big moms and Crocodiles mind or goals. What we need to see is how they themselves frame their positions. Xebec has never framed his goal as anything other then wanting to be king of the world.

He knew about imu being the secret ruler of the world. It's pretty easy to think that he grew up on stories of Imu's evil deeds from his Davy family, and he was trying to take down imu because of his family's progenitor's legacy. Which is the Original Davy Jones, who was most likely defeated and imprisoned by imu.

Lol,why doesn´t he mention that then? How are you accusing me of doing conjecture, when you make up your own story about Xebec ¨disliking Imu´s evil deeds¨ as opposed to his actual goal, which is just to be King of the world. But let me guess, he only wants to be King of the world to make the OP world a wholesome chungus paradise.

So yes, we can absolutely frame his opposition to the WG as moral. Nothing he's done has been evidence to the contrary.

Why would we frame it that way if the man himself doesn´t do so?

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

He was potrayed as a supra evil, but the guy was basically a normal pirate with a lots of strenght. (if he ded)

A "normal pirate" is still fairly bad honestly. Ask anyone what their hobbies were and they'll most likely say a pirate is known for pillaging, raping, killing, thieving, etc

 

[Dragon777]

He´s objectively evil, given the whole destroying towns thing.

There's a whole page that says he's evil

Thread.

He turned out to be an ""ok"" pirate, but always a pirate who attacks, kills, destroys, and on an unprecedent scale. The dude kidnapped 8 kings, killed an Admiral and wounded kid Loki in his introduction only.

For any normal person, seeing Xebec was akin to see a disaster.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Seems like Great guy so far . No hints of him being evil .

 

[Dragon777]

Seems like Great guy so far . No hints of him being evil .

The dude kidnapped 8 kings, killed an Admiral and wounded kid Loki in his introduction only.

 

[park_min young]

He’s an anti-hero, and to me, it was always clear that he’d be misunderstood. The first major clue was Whitebeard following him, since WB has always been portrayed as a fundamentally good man, and that says a lot about Rocks’ character.

The second clue comes from Kaido’s flashback. Linlin spoke about him in a teasing, almost tsundere way, while Whitebeard acted like he’s extremely familiar and close to him. It felt like a real crew.

Spoiler

The nail in the coffin is chapter 1096, where we see even more hints about the crew’s dynamic with Xebec. Whitebeard was clearly close to him, saying Xebec would “lose sight of the goal.” WB’s enthusiasm during that scene also hints they weren’t doing something inherently evil. Xebec himself acted like a typical rowdy rival toward Roger, not some malicious villain.

 

[RayanOO]

The first major clue was Whitebeard following him, since WB has always been portrayed as a fundamentally good man, and that says a lot about Rocks’ character.

This could have been explained lots of ways
- WB having a rebellious phase while young and hating the WG as much as Xebec
- WB being won with a Davy back fight and being honorable enough to stay and even if he stayed he didn’t really respects Rocks or liked his crewmates either
- WB being attracted by Rocks charisma and aura etc

or a bit of everything above

And later down the line WB would have slowly turned his back from Rocks because of his actions and in the end at God Valley he parted ways with him

Rocks could have been a little bit more evil and WB being inside the crew could have been easily explained

Current Xebec isn’t a nice guy at all, but Oda is painting him a little bit too good compared to what he teased us

 

[Monet]

Rocks walked into his front yard and threw hands with a 12 year old to get his dads attention

Stop Government agenda

Garling fanboy.
....
Loki character is not like kid luffy, rocks treated him the only way loki understand POWER.

 

[zenox]

even the readers fell for world government propoganda

 

[D. Plant]

People always rooting for the smaller guys, I guess that's human nature.

 

[park_min young]

Boa sent puppies flying, and Garp basically beat up kid Luffy for days. The Loki thing is really a stretch to try and paint Xebec as evil.

His so-called crimes were only narrated, and for all we know, he might not have even been directly responsible for the destruction attributed to him. He had a crew full of powerful and chaotic individuals he couldn’t fully control after all. When we saw them actually ransack a town, it turned out that the place was run by a bunch of corrupt goons anyway. Xebec himself was only after the loot, while Whitebeard and Shiki were the ones causing the most destruction, ironically enough.

The admiral he killed was direct opps, that doesn’t make him evil lol. Roger has also killed a lot of opps in lore, he killed Squard’s entire crew, and countless men over petty insults. Xebec has never been shown to kill a civilian who couldn’t defend themselves. This was directly contrasted by the World Government agent who killed an innocent in cold blood, something Xebec himself called out to Harald.

Basically everything Xebec did seems mild and even justifiable when you put it into context. He wasn’t evil, just someone more ruthless, and with a grand goal of killing Imu, some casualties along the way is even expected.

 

[Cherry Hilk]

Even that was retconned and toned down by Oda

Xebec was presented having no chill to stab kid Loki and giving shit about WB but on panel he only send a shockwave toward Loki and wasn’t thattt bad

Xebec was this before his real intro

We didn’t really see that Xebec on panel

Also the Rocks crew indeed cause some mayhem but the island they raided on panel was some shady cult that was stealing money from people

Once again diminishing the crime the Rocks were committing

Same now with Xebec going in GV not for some treasure but to save his family or Rocks having a friendship with Harald etc

Oda did good with Xebec and I like him but he went a little bit out of his way to paint him a little bit too good compared to what he was supposed to be

Oda is not capable of writing grey characters, even the ones who seem such at first eventually end up fully villains or heroes. I have the impression that he is terrorised at the idea of readers being confused about who should they root for, and so goes all the way to depict how absurdly evil bad characters are and how saintly the good ones are, with the unpleasant sensation that the readers feeling are being forced and their intelligence not highly regarded. Heck, i don’t remember the last time one character on the protagonists side ever did something morally questionable, with the exception of the Wedding murder plot in WCI.

 

[Dragon777]

Boa sent puppies flying

Boa was absolutely portrayed as a bitch until love changed her (kind of).

and Garp basically beat up kid Luffy for days. The Loki thing is really a stretch to try and paint Xebec as evil.

Garp did it for Luffy and kind of in a gag manner; Xebec didn't.

His so-called crimes were only narrated, and for all we know, he might not have even been directly responsible for the destruction attributed to him. He had a crew full of powerful and chaotic individuals he couldn’t fully control after all. When we saw them actually ransack a town, it turned out that the place was run by a bunch of corrupt goons anyway. Xebec himself was only after the loot, while Whitebeard and Shiki were the ones causing the most destruction, ironically enough.

It's not like we have to be spoon fed. It was said that towns were erased from maps. I think it was quite enough. One kindom in ruin:

How can any of this even be remotely good from a normal dude's perspective?

The admiral he killed was direct opps, that doesn’t make him evil lol. Roger has also killed a lot of opps in lore, he killed Squard’s entire crew, and countless men over petty insults. Xebec has never been shown to kill a civilian who couldn’t defend themselves. This was directly contrasted by the World Government agent who killed an innocent in cold blood, something Xebec himself called out to Harald.

If it wasn't for the fact that the Admiral was killed trying to free 8 kings Xebec had kidnapped and wanted to use as pawns.

Basically everything Xebec did seems mild and even justifiable when you put it into context. He wasn’t evil, just someone more ruthless, and with a grand goal of killing Imu, some casualties along the way is even expected.

Xebec is a pirate under any definition: he brings destruction, death and pillage everywhere he goes. And since he and his crew were tremendously strong, he did it on an unprecedented scale.

Now, I agree that we were expecting not that, but someone positively evil, like Kaido or Saturn: someone who almost enjoys killing people and does that for the feeling of it.

Xebec is not like this, but it's still very much evil for any normal citizen. If you were a random citizen in OP and you saw the Rocks coming in your general direction, you'd better start running.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

What happens when you wipe towns off the map and destroy countries?

People survive?

There's been multiple instances where town was fucked and people survived lol. Xebec's own son did that in Banaro island.

Also, roger is framed as a good guy and he wiped out countries for shit talking his crew.
Condom is the good guy MC and he literally freed heinous criminals to rescue his pirate brother.

Good and evil are a matter of perspective.

Why would we need to? We also don´t know the inner workings and machinations of Doflamingo, Kaidos, Big moms and Crocodiles mind or goals. What we need to see is how they themselves frame their positions. Xebec has never framed his goal as anything other then wanting to be king of the world.

Except we do. We have gotten glimpses into all their psyche and their deeper motivations or lack thereof.
Doffy is insane from his childhood and wants revenge on the CDs. He also doesn't care for normal people cause of his past.
Kaido wants a great death, and he isn't above slavery, torture, murder and all that to achieve it.
Meme is extremely damaged mentally and wants a twisted equality.
Croco wants his own country ala Doffy, and he is willing to do anything for that.

None of those is the same as wanting to be the king of the world by overthrowing an authoritarian and totalitarian govt.

Lol,why doesn´t he mention that then? How are you accusing me of doing conjecture, when you make up your own story about Xebec ¨disliking Imu´s evil deeds¨ as opposed to his actual goal, which is just to be King of the world. But let me guess, he only wants to be King of the world to make the OP world a wholesome chungus paradise.

Yes.

Xebec just wants peace for the entire world.
What a man he was

Why would we frame it that way if the man himself doesn´t do so?

Xebec doesn't have to hold up a sign saying "i am doing this to rid the world of imu the evil" for us to know that.
It's called reading between the lines.

The fact that his first scene in the manga was in imu's room says a whole lot about him. He and imu and intrinsically linked and dichotomic. So if imu is evil, which we know he is, then Xebec is the opposite side, which is good.