Controversial General Political Discussion

[HerreraIsBack]

Yup they were debunked and at the very worst, not confirmed in any way. I invite you to make little researches.

No they were not. Do your reasearch. And blindly listening to nazy propaganda is not reasearch.

Things that you have been ignoring clearly:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06...ve-wounded-palestinian-tied-vehicle/104012064

(this type of thing is daily, it's systemic)

Saying something is systemic doesn't makes you sound smart. Quite the opposite, is a generic word everyone uses for everything nowadays.

I couldn't care less about how a terrorist is treated, he is luck to even be alive. But anyway they are investigating the issue, it is written at the article.

Hamas is not in control of Palestine, but Gaza. And it's not in control, it's fighting for control. The IDF is in control of Gaza. THerefore when you ask "who did these milicia managed to do such horrible things?" the answer is Israel fund and helped them do it.

Hamas was the elected group to be in control of Gaza. And what they did? Attacked Israel. Now they are all crying like little babies, the ones who are left alive, because Israel is destroying them and they got so weak that the other organizations, as terrorists as them, are trying to taking them down as well. Hamas is not the only organization in Gaza, is just your favorite terrorist one.

Dude. This is literally a war crime shot on camera. And it's only a few week old:

Spoiler: war crime

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1994754893769261179

Israel did not only do one war crime, but HUNDREDS on top of a genocide. When Israel destroys an hospital with people inside of it, it's a war crime my guy. Time to wake the F up. The international courts needs time to investigate, but they are already moving.

Yea I also remember Ukraine drones killing Russian surrenders. Also war crime but I don't give a shit, it is ridiculous to accept a surrender from a soldier who can be plotting against you.

Taking over people's home is not an aggression? Colonization is not an agression? Genocide is not an agression? War crimes are not an agression? Keeping an entire population in a constant state of dehumanization and oppression, not an agression? You are wired backward mate. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Inform yourself on the subject (don't worry, I know you won't).

No land was taken over. They were all bought. There is no genocide if not by the one preached for Israel haters like you. Hamas is the one keeping their own people in a constant state of dehumanization, oppresion and agression.

 

[NAMELESS]

Some insane news today.

As expected, it's about Trump, again. This time though, a lot of the comments suggesting that Trump is doing all this to get access to the oil reserves in Venezuela 😲

Edit: Or it could really be about the drug cartels

Or both. Spoils of war I guess.

 

[HerreraIsBack]

Damn..you gotta garling tag, sucks to be you lol

Holy shit... What do I did to deserve that?

 

[NAMELESS]

Holy shit... What do I did to deserve that?

That is what you get for deleting your acc.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

the zionist movement should have created a jewish state somewhere else, regardless of their religious sites.

They tbh couldn’t have

the levant, being the origin of Judaism, was the only place that united all Jews.

However, it would have probably prevented a nearly century long conflict if they just took the Jewish majority lands around Tel Aviv, instead of trying to conquer the levant.

 

[Zenos7]

We already had this conversation. I posted here authors that don't agree with that notion and links to their articles. I also posted a chart that demonstrates that Fascism and Nazism have more common characteristics with communism and socialism than capitalism. It was a long-ass post that you simply didn't read or reply to. Fascism and Nazism are considered right-wing simply because left-wing academics employed historical revisionism to make the left look good (like always). The same people are now calling Lula a neoliberal. In a couple of years, it wouldn't surprise me to see history books preaching Lula and Dilma's governments as conservative ones. The left never takes responsibility for their actions. Cognitive dissonance is a thing, but I don't think you suffer from it, Mr.all dictatorships are right-wing, you just argue in bad faith like the rest of them.

one very important aspect of fascism is ultranationalism. that is directly opposed to left wing ideologies.

and i dont know why you even want to make the comparison with communism/socialism/capitalism. these three are mainly economic ideologies, so you are basically comparing apples to oranges by stating "see they are both round" just because these economic ideologies still have political inferences.

socialism/communism are also directly opposed to fascism since fascism embraces hierarchies, whereas the other two want to remove hierarchies and seek egalitarianism.

considering these basic ass points it sounds much more likely that the authors you cited are heavily influenced by their biases than what you accuse "left wing academics" of lmao.
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All your arguments are invalid cause you don't have a job.

this is as stupid a statement as logikos "biological sex doesnt exist" nonsense.

congrats

 

[Luffy is the mc]

Yeah, I did public school from sixth grade on…the main differences were significantly smaller class sizes, mandatory religion/language lessons, and an overall sense of exclusion or forcible separation, that last part was easily the most jarring change when I made the jump. I don’t know that either way was more educational or did a better job of preparing me for the real world, but as a matter of personal preference, I remember being glad that I didn’t stay private for middle or high school

Public schools have their defaults but it has the advantage of mixing people with different backgrounds, different beliefs, etc...
Private schools, religious schools tend to create disconnected elites who don't mix and live in their own world with their own values.

 

[Zenos7]

They were not the ones attacking first. If you lose a war you started don't be mad about losing land

and i think its also kinda ironic that during the time where egypt seized control over gaza for almost 20 years, political activism from palestinians was still directed at israel instead of trying to make gaza an official palestinian state and remove egyptian administration of the land.
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No land was taken over. They were all bought. There is no genocide if not by the one preached for Israel haters like you. Hamas is the one keeping their own people in a constant state of dehumanization, oppresion and agression.

there was land taken over and forceful expulsions. it wasnt all bought, land being bought doesnt at all compare in raw numbers to people who have fled or were forcefully expelled.

But yeah, hamas being voted to power by palestinians was definitely a bad move, especially considering they were not even trying to hide the fact that they actually want to genocide jews (original charter, new one did backtrack on the extreme rhetoric).
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They tbh couldn’t have

the levant, being the origin of Judaism, was the only place that united all Jews.

However, it would have probably prevented a nearly century long conflict if they just took the Jewish majority lands around Tel Aviv, instead of trying to conquer the levant.

thats why i said "regardless of religious sites". i do get the motivation to return to this "promised homeland" or whatever, but that is, as we are seeing ever since the formation of israel, not as easy when there are new people there who also consider this their homeland with important religious sites.
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Public schools have their defaults but it has the advantage of mixing people with different backgrounds, different beliefs, etc...
Private schools, religious schools tend to create disconnected elites who don't mix and live in their own world with their own values.

this is true to an extent, but private religious schools still might have people with different backgrounds, just not that much difference in beliefs. guess since judaism is an ethnoreligion there would be less diversity in comparison to private christian schools.

 

[NAMELESS]

one very important aspect of fascism is ultranationalism. that is directly opposed to left wing ideologies.

and i dont know why you even want to make the comparison with communism/socialism/capitalism. these three are mainly economic ideologies, so you are basically comparing apples to oranges by stating "see they are both round" just because these economic ideologies still have political inferences.

socialism/communism are also directly opposed to fascism since fascism embraces hierarchies, whereas the other two want to remove hierarchies and seek egalitarianism.

considering these basic ass points it sounds much more likely that the authors you cited are heavily influenced by their biases than what you accuse "left wing academics" of lmao.
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this is as stupid a statement as logikos "biological sex doesnt exist" nonsense.

congrats

North Korea has ultranationalism. So did Maoist China and the Soviet Union. Ufanism isn't exclusive to the right. You people get so confused by these stupid definitions that you actually ignore fucking history. All political ideology encompasses the economic. "Hierarchies and egalitarianism." Well, many Marxist-Leninist regimes did exactly the opposite, so this argument is also wrong. Even modern-day social democracies centralize quite a bit of power, which in turn creates a bureaucratic elite and goes against this idea of egalitarianism and absence of hierarchy. Look at the actual state of the world and forget about these bullshit dictionary definitions. That jab to logiko was just a joke, btw.

 

[Zenos7]

North Korea has ultranationalism. So did Maoist China and the Soviet Union. Ufanism isn't exclusive to the right. You people get so confused by these stupid definitions that you actually ignore fucking history. All political ideology encompasses the economic. "Hierarchies and egalitarianism." Well, many Marxist-Leninist regimes did exactly the opposite, so this argument is also wrong. Even modern-day social democracies centralize quite a bit of power, which in turn creates a bureaucratic elite and goes against this idea of egalitarianism and absence of hierarchy. Look at the actual state of the world and forget about these bullshit dictionary definitions. That jab to logiko was just a joke, btw.

you are muddying the waters by now including what states based on these ideologies have done. But at the core of the ideologies, comparing them to fascism is just nonsensical.

just look at how different denominations of religions are despite being based on the same scripture

 

[NAMELESS]

Public schools have their defaults but it has the advantage of mixing people with different backgrounds, different beliefs, etc...
Private schools, religious schools tend to create disconnected elites who don't mix and live in their own world with their own values.

Assuming public schools are quality enough that rich parents will put their kids in them. In Brazil, even the best public schools are mainly frequented by upper-middle-class and rich kids. The poor get the bottom of the barrel. Some 18-year-old kids that went to such schools (bottom of the barrel ones) can barely read. Back in middle school, I had to avoid kids from other public schools, or else I might have been beaten up while going back home. I studied in a military school, which automatically made me a "Playboy" in the minds of those ignorants. Many of them live in favelas and were exposed to gang culture; some schools in Rio de Janeiro look like crackhouses. Tribalism is very real.

you are muddying the waters by now including what states based on these ideologies have done. But at the core of the ideologies, comparing them to fascism is just nonsensical.

just look at how different denominations of religions are despite being based on the same scripture

My point is that these textbook definitions don't accurately reflect past history or current events. No ideologies do anything by themselves. They are just ideas. Ideas don't have power to do anything by themselves, but people do. Dissociating the actions of people from such ideas is a disingenuous way to interpret reality.
Fascists always had more in common with communism/socialism than conservatism. Their actions are proof enough of that. But, of course, you people will ignore actual documented history and claim otherwise because sociologists (who are majoritarily leftists like the rest of academics) claim otherwise.

you are muddying the waters by now including what states based on these ideologies have done. But at the core of the ideologies, comparing them to fascism is just nonsensical.

By the way, all of these ideologies can trace their roots back to the French Revolution (philosophically, that is).

 

[Logiko]

Ok maybe I went a little bit overboard with this one



They triggered me

 

[Uncle Van]

We already had this conversation. I posted here authors that don't agree with that notion and links to their articles. I also posted a chart that demonstrates that Fascism and Nazism have more common characteristics with communism and socialism than capitalism. It was a long-ass post that you simply didn't read or reply to. Fascism and Nazism are considered right-wing simply because left-wing academics employed historical revisionism to make the left look good (like always). The same people are now calling Lula a neoliberal. In a couple of years, it wouldn't surprise me to see history books preaching Lula and Dilma's governments as conservative ones. The left never takes responsibility for their actions. Cognitive dissonance is a thing, but I don't think you suffer from it, Mr.all dictatorships are right-wing, you just argue in bad faith like the rest of them.

All your arguments are invalid cause you don't have a job.

Link?

Fascism is a far right ideology by definition and by history. Most academics agree that it and Nazism is right wing because not only do they follow right wing ideology, they completely contradict leftism.
- pushes ultranationalism which is anti-left
- huge emphasis on social hierarchy
- protected private privacy and capitalism
- violently targeted socialist, communists, and crushed unions
- pushed national purity, with capital and benefits only going to the best of the nation
- mass elimination of outgroups
- Claimed a revolution of the proletariat was a mortal danger and must be crushed
- Allied with the church and pushed Christian nationalism along with religious education, when communist Russia were openly hostile towards it and uprooted religious institutions.

The academics that claim Fascism or nazism is leftism were proven wrong, and they always cling to the same outdated reasoning such as :

1) Hitler leading the National Socialist German Workers' Party, ignoring that it was propaganda, and Hitler immediately started eliminating leftist and crushed unions upon taking power
2) Fascism centralized power like communism, completely ignoring that it is a common thing with authoritarianism and dictatorships.
3) Quoting scholars from the 1920s-mid 1930s when fascism was still a work in progress
4) Small government vs big government, which not only ignores that it is about how much the government interferes with the people's lives, it idea was started as anti-communist propaganda in the US 1950s during the cold war.

Mr.all dictatorships are right-wing, you just argue in bad faith like the rest of them.

Lol still clinging to a strawman and being a massive hypocrite. When you:

- disregard the textbook definition of leftism
- calls leftism the ideology of hate and envy
- makes things up about people to claim they love murder
- thinks fascism and nazism is left wing
- says leftist need to be "dealt with"
- says racism is a stable in leftism
- says leftism is an evil cult
- says most leftist are psychopaths
- says the American democratic party are not right wing
- calls any historical event or fact that goes against your personal beliefs a left wing conspiracy/revision.
- called the lack of information of leftism destroying Brazil during their mostly far right dictatorship history is a left wing conspiracy

The fact that the best you got is claiming and implying there's some of kind global left wing revisionism or conspiracy is very telling. Textbook bad faith. Totally not biased at all.

 

[Roo]

and i think its also kinda ironic that during the time where egypt seized control over gaza for almost 20 years, political activism from palestinians was still directed at israel instead of trying to make gaza an official palestinian state and remove egyptian administration of the land.
.

That’s because pan arabism was sort of a thing back then, or at least they were trying to make it one

ultimately all the Israel-Arab wars weren’t to create a Palestinian state, it was a small step into creating a large Arab state. Arab leaders at the time were vying for power

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Nah, that's my pov. I'm talking personally with urgency here as there is a genocide happening. The point about ethnonationalism stands on its own. No matter what form, zionism is a colonial and ethnonationalist rooted ideology that can only create a form of fascism.
.

I’d disagree that it can only create a form of fascism. Israel has some democracy and left wing Zionists do exist.

Id also argue that given that Israel has already been created, one can be a Zionist without necessarily advocating for colonialism. In the same sense that being pro America or pro Canada doesn’t inherently involve being pro colonialism.
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Historical Zionists were undeniably heavily influenced by colonialism. That said, I don’t really blame them. We all know what happened to the Jews that didn’t leave Europe.

 

[Logiko]

Israel has some democracy and left wing Zionists do exist.

This is what a "leftist zionist" wrote:

There is no such thing as a leftist zionist. Today, you cannot be a leftist a believe in the superiority of a "race" or in a colonialist ideology. This doesn't work and you need to wake up. And some democracy doesn't mean that fascism is not here. Fascism is not 1 or 0. Fascism lingers and arrives. It's fully installed ONLY when it's too late for you to notice (at least for rightist). Zionism can only create fascism.

Id also argue that given that Israel has already been created, one can be a Zionist without necessarily advocating for colonialism. In the same sense that being pro America or pro Canada doesn’t inherently involve being pro colonialism.

Being zionist means either the legitimization of Israel as it is or the expansion of the territory on Palestinian and Jordanian soil.

In both cases, it's settler colonialism. Israel is a colonizing state by nature and geopolitical reason, it can't be something else as long as it stays Israel.

In the same sense that being pro America or pro Canada doesn’t inherently involve being pro colonialism.

Yes it does. America and Canada were funded on Colonialism and are still applying colonial and imperialist method to this day : Settler colonialism and neocolonialism outside of the country. Just like Israel (but it's late now), being pro canad/pro USA is being ok with the current state of settler colonialism still happening in america and being ok with the fact that almost NO real reparation has been done.

 

[Roo]

This is what a "leftist zionist" wrote:

There is no such thing as a leftist zionist. Today, you cannot be a leftist a believe in the superiority of a "race" or in a colonialist ideology. This doesn't work and you need to wake up. And some democracy doesn't mean that fascism is not here. Fascism is not 1 or 0. Fascism lingers and arrives. It's fully installed ONLY when it's too late for you to notice (at least for rightist). Zionism can only create fascism.


Being zionist means either the legitimization of Israel as it is or the expansion of the territory on Palestinian and Jordanian soil.

In both cases, it's settler colonialism. Israel is a colonizing state by nature and geopolitical reason, it can't be something else as long as it stays Israel.


Yes it does. America and Canada were funded on Colonialism and are still applying colonial and imperialist method to this day : Settler colonialism and neocolonialism outside of the country. Just like Israel (but it's late now), being pro canad/pro USA is being ok with the current state of settler colonialism still happening in america and being ok with the fact that almost NO real reparation has been done.

Zionism at its very core is the belief that there should be a Jewish state so it is not incongruent with leftist beliefs

 

[Monkey D Theories]

This is what a "leftist zionist" wrote:

I mean chosen-ness is part of Judaism. It’s not about race, it’s about having a greater purpose in life. It is somewhat exclusionary, but so are all religions.

obviously this writer is wrong to suggest non Jews need to adopt tenants of Judaism else they be labeled as antisemitic.

but also, times of Israel removed this article so I can’t read it in full to see what their message really is.
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. And some democracy doesn't mean that fascism is not here. Fascism is not 1 or 0. Fascism lingers and arrives. It's fully installed ONLY when it's too late for you to notice (at least for rightist). Zionism can only create fascism.

it looks more like you are using fascist as a pejorative rather than talking about the actual ideology of fascism

zionism wasn’t started by followers of Mussolini or Hitler

 

[Logiko]

Zionism at its very core is the belief that there should be a Jewish state so it is not incongruent with leftist beliefs

A jewish state implies two things: Colonialism of Palestine and a state were the right are based on the notion of "being jewish". As such, it's a form of ethnonationalism that can only create appartheid and later fascism. Zionism is therefore the complete opposition to leftism. Zionism helped creating Israel which is Fascist, ethnonationalist, supremacist & colonialist. This resulted in genocide.

I mean chosen-ness is part of Judaism. It’s not about race, it’s about having a greater purpose in life. It is somewhat exclusionary, but so are all religions.

Supremacism can apply to various things. The point is not the reason, but how it applies and destroy. In this case, supremacism create the idea that Jewish are superior because of their so called "role". In real life, it creates the dehumanization of the entire arab population especially (and in second others). It's not only exclusionary, it's, in context, a supremacist ideology that perpetuates white supremacy.

obviously this writer is wrong to suggest non Jews need to adopt tenants of Judaism else they be labeled as antisemitic.

but also, times of Israel removed this article so I can’t read it in full to see what their message really is.

Here is a copy: https://web.archive.org/web/2023102...s-racist-to-see-jews-as-equal-is-antisemitic/

it looks more like you are using fascist as a pejorative rather than talking about the actual ideology of fascism

zionism wasn’t started by followers of Mussolini or Hitler

No. I'm calling out fascism for what it is. Not simply because I don't like. If you look at my messages here, you will see that I'm always very careful when I use this word. For a long time I NEVER used it against someone here or to designate a country. But the time have changed and fascism is now looming and already present partially or more in many societies (France, US, Israel, Germany, Italy for ex)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism

 

[HerreraIsBack]

and i think its also kinda ironic that during the time where egypt seized control over gaza for almost 20 years, political activism from palestinians was still directed at israel instead of trying to make gaza an official palestinian state and remove egyptian administration of the land.

I recently heard that all this anti-Israel propaganda was build by the russians after Israel and USA started to become ally.

there was land taken over and forceful expulsions. it wasnt all bought, land being bought doesnt at all compare in raw numbers to people who have fled or were forcefully expelled.

But yeah, hamas being voted to power by palestinians was definitely a bad move, especially considering they were not even trying to hide the fact that they actually want to genocide jews (original charter, new one did backtrack on the extreme rhetoric).

There was private lands and "public" lands (owned by state), the private ones were all bought by jews and Germany was in charge of the region at time made the Israel state.