Powers & Abilities Roger isn’t a swordsman

[Rootbeer]

And Kouzaburo’s son says the opposite

How is it not a debate when characters in the story say different things

also I love how you don’t consider things like Parrying, Blocking, ripostes, spacing, agility, haki as part of swordsmanship. Somehow everything else that Zoro does that’s not cutting is suddenly not Swordmanship. Incredible

The core base main goal of Swordsmanship is to strike your opponent with the sharp edge of your Sword, Swords were invented to cut.. It's not up for debate..

the reason Roger’s sword didn’t hit Rocks was because it physically wasn’t close enough to hit rocks. And the reason Zoro’s swords hit Hachi is because he was physically close enough for that

and in both cases both characters do long range attacks while in melee range

What if Roger was physically close enough to hit Rocks but still opted for a range attack..

It's different, Zoro physically strike Hacchi with his Blades, Roger didn't..

What the fuck are you saying? His “unique sword skill” is a blunt force attacks

And what the hell does Mihawk have to do with this? Are you making some kind of point with mihawk

Rocks was famous for his Sword Skill right.. If it's a Sword Skill that can be learned or mimicked by others it wouldn't be famous to the point of being established by the narrator.. Roger didn't get this level of praise even though he has one of the highest Sword Skill shown in the series where we don't really know how or what he did.. I'm saying Mihawk Sword Skill can most probably do what Roger did but not what Rocks did..

Rocks doesn’t have a “sword fighting style”. He doesn’t call out a sword style in his attack names

What we know is that he is famous for blunt force attacks. So I would say yes, he is famous for the thing he uses the most. I mean in his fight with Harald he only used blunt force attacks

So you're saying Rocks' blunt force attacks is his main fighting style.. That would mean he's not a Swordsman either solely based on your answer.. I haven't made my mind on Rocks personally..

 

[kekaro]

absolute noodle win for the fact alone this has 43 pages
Like a fiddle

 

[Rootbeer]

What about Roger using cutting attacks in his ultimate attack to finish off Domi Reversi Rocks?

This suggest to me that it's a Blunt attack..

And as well as Divine Departure and Wild Spirit being both Blunt Damage..

 

[Rootbeer]

That's an interesting point. What visual effect should cutting attacks have?

Flying Slashes are created by circular motion, the visual effect is the attack itself.. There are no kick starter effect since they are not single point impact.. Unless it's a thrust, a Sword thrust and a Slash thrust will have a visual effect, but will differ cause it requires more force.. Similar to a Canon..

Since we're talking about Black Lightning Haki here being the attack, it could perhaps still be a cutting thrust attack if maybe the attack demands less power to send.. However, i'm not leaning toward that.. Roger's attack is essentially a thrust gatling with 6 consecutive blows.. Seems more realistic to me if Roger is using his Blade like a Baseball bat there..

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

The core base main goal of Swordsmanship is to strike your opponent with the sharp edge of your Sword, Swords were invented to cut.. It's not up for debate..

Source?

Hehehe (if you repeat Kouzaburo then insert Kouzaburo’s son)

What if Roger was physically close enough to hit Rocks but still opted for a range attack..

exactly like Zoro did to Hachi.

It’s simply an attack. Nothing more and nothing less

Rocks was famous for his Sword Skill right.. If it's a Sword Skill that can be learned or mimicked by others it wouldn't be famous to the point of being established by the narrator.. Roger didn't get this level of praise even though he has one of the highest Sword Skill shown in the series where we don't really know how or what he did.. I'm saying Mihawk Sword Skill can most probably do what Roger did but not what Rocks did..

I’m still waiting for what point you’re trying to make with this

I mean many swordsmen in One piece have unique ways of fighting and they aren’t as famous as Rocks. Like T-bone has his Right angle Flying slashes, I don’t know what point you’re making

So you're saying Rocks' blunt force attacks is his main fighting style.. That would mean he's not a Swordsman either solely based on your answer.

You’re doing your circular logic thing again, you’ve already decided that blunt force makes you “not a swordsman” and now you’re making conclusions backwards from that yet you somehow think it’s not worth even explaining why you think swordsmen aren’t allowed to use blunt force especially when Zoro uses blunt force attacks all the time

 

[Terra Arseid7]

Flying Slashes are created by circular motion, the visual effect is the attack itself.. There are no kick starter effect since they are not single point impact.. Unless it's a thrust, a Sword thrust and a Slash thrust will have a visual effect, but will differ cause it requires more force.. Similar to a Canon..

Since we're talking about Black Lightning Haki here being the attack, it could perhaps still be a cutting thrust attack if maybe the attack demands less power to send.. However, i'm not leaning toward that.. Roger's attack is essentially a thrust gatling with 6 consecutive blows.. Seems more realistic to me if Roger is using his Blade like a Baseball bat there..

This is more similar to a shot skill, still swordmanship.

Spoiler

Oh and this, same visuals effect

 

[Sentry22]

All of this is irrelevant as Mihawk is from a different generation from the old legends both of whom Mihawk has acknowledged as being superior to him.

 

[Rootbeer]

Source?

Hehehe (if you repeat Kouzaburo then insert Kouzaburo’s son)

I refuse to step this low when the fundamental of Swords and Swordsmanship is clearly to cut down your opponent..

exactly like Zoro did to Hachi.

It’s simply an attack. Nothing more and nothing less

If it was exactly like Zoro did to Hacchi, Roger would have physically cut Rocks while launching his attack..

I’m still waiting for what point you’re trying to make with this

I mean many swordsmen in One piece have unique ways of fighting and they aren’t as famous as Rocks. Like T-bone has his Right angle Flying slashes, I don’t know what point you’re making

The form of the flying slash is irrelevant.. The point was Rocks is famous for his Sword Skill, not for the blunt damage it does.. And it's confirmed based on manga evidence that Rocks' Sword Skill is Haki..

You’re doing your circular logic thing again, you’ve already decided that blunt force makes you “not a swordsman” and now you’re making conclusions backwards from that yet you somehow think it’s not worth even explaining why you think swordsmen aren’t allowed to use blunt force especially when Zoro uses blunt force attacks all the time

I already told you..

'' If someone's main fighting style is using a Gun but they never shoot with it, only Pistol whip their opponents, are they a Gunslinger?.. ''

This is more similar to a shot skill, still swordmanship.

Spoiler

Oh and this, same visuals effect

The second image with Kaku and Zoro is actually a good example.. Since we're seeing the end result of the attack there's a visual effect that a projectile attack was fired.. With Roger we also witness the end result where 6 projectiles were thrown..

 

[Kiri]

Swordsmanship, or Bladesmanship is to cut or have the intent to cut with the Sword's Edge..

If someone's main fighting style is using a Gun but they never shoot with it, only Pistol whip their opponents, are they a Gunslinger?..

We've been over this, it said Rocks' Sword Skill, not his Swordsmanship as whole..
I don't know why you keep lying about this, it's like Erkan who keeps saying it's World '' Greatest '' Swordsman, instead of the actual proper translation World Strongest Swordsman..

Most of Zoro's Sword fighting style is cutting, that's the point..
Roger's main fighting style is Blunt Damage, so it's not Swordsmanship, it goes against everything that Swordsmanship stands for..




Bro what are we doing..

Even Koshiro's teaching is about to cut and cut nothing, but it's always about cutting.. The Blade is what matters..


A Flying Slash produced from the Bladed Edge of a Sword will always cut, Haki or not.. That's why when we're speaking of Swordsmanship in One Piece we're really more speaking of '' Bladesmanship ''.. Swords don't matter, Blades do..

I don't troll, that's why i believe there's a Door in front of Franky on the Mural..

That's cute and all but you have failed to address the points I made, so you got baked. You just stated your opinion.

"A Flying Slash produced from the Bladed Edge of a Sword will always cut, Haki or not. " you're actually just proving my point here. Xebec doesn't use flying slashes. You can manipulate how you use a blade to attack, he creates a flying shockwave with the blade.

It's still swordsmanship, because he's using a swords blade to accomplish that. The style of handle that the blade is attached to literally alters how you fight with the weapon. Xebec is specifically a swordsman. Someone that used a spear would be a spearmen, this is objective categorisation.

However, when it comes to mastery, we already have an example of peak mastery with any bladed weapon, which is creating a black blade. This makes Mihawk the strongest Bladesmen.

The reason he's a swordsman in the first place is because swords are just popular, it just happens that the strongest swordsman is also the strongest bladesmen.

Otherwise we should see like a spear wielder or something with a black blade, this would legitimately make things interesting but Oda is very 1 dimensional with this and doesn't want to go down this route I guess.

Post automatically merged: Dec 23, 2025

All of this is irrelevant as Mihawk is from a different generation from the old legends both of whom Mihawk has acknowledged as being superior to him.

He said becoming Pirate King is harder. This is not a definitive statement of Mihawk admitting Roger would beat him in a 1v1 fight.

There's 0 indication of Mihawk doing that, you're just choosing to make this up in your head because it tickles your fancy.

Mihawk thinks he's at the top of the World on the Throne of The Strongest, it doesn't even make sense for him to say Roger is stronger than him, especially when Mihawk didn't fight him.

The statement itself can mean many things, like having to put your life in someone else's hands, yet we see Mihawk is distrustful.

But the statement is not objectively saying Roger > Mihawk.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

refuse to step this low when the fundamental of Swords and Swordsmanship is clearly to cut down your opponent..

According to who?

source?

If it was exactly like Zoro did to Hacchi, Roger would have physically cut Rocks while launching his attack..

no Roger wasn’t close enough for his sword to hit Rocks. Roger’s swords aren’t blunt. If they were close enough they would have cut Rocks

The form of the flying slash is irrelevant..

So then the form of Rocks’ blunt force isn’t irrelevant too?

I mean Zoro does blunt force attacks all the time and yet he’s not famous for them

If you’re saying T-bone shouldn’t be famous then Rocks shouldn’t be either

you..

'' If someone's main fighting style is using a Gun but they never shoot with it, only Pistol whip their opponents, are they a Gunslinger?..

this analogy breaks down because Zoro is a swordsman who has several blunt force attacks.

And yet Zoro’s blunt force attacks are all swordsmanship and Zoro isn’t disqualified from being a swordsman for using them

Are you seeing your circular logic yet? You don’t think Blunt force is swordsmanship when no one in the story has ever even slightly said such a thing.

 

[Rootbeer]

That's cute and all but you have failed to address the points I made, so you got baked. You just stated your opinion.

"A Flying Slash produced from the Bladed Edge of a Sword will always cut, Haki or not. " you're actually just proving my point here. Xebec doesn't use flying slashes. You can manipulate how you use a blade to attack, he creates a flying shockwave with the blade.

It's still swordsmanship, because he's using a swords blade to accomplish that. The style of handle that the blade is attached to literally alters how you fight with the weapon. Xebec is specifically a swordsman. Someone that used a spear would be a spearmen, this is objective categorisation.

However, when it comes to mastery, we already have an example of peak mastery with any bladed weapon, which is creating a black blade. This makes Mihawk the strongest Bladesmen.

The reason he's a swordsman in the first place is because swords are just popular, it just happens that the strongest swordsman is also the strongest bladesmen.

Otherwise we should see like a spear wielder or something with a black blade, this would legitimately make things interesting but Oda is very 1 dimensional with this and doesn't want to go down this route I guess.

Lets start over.. I'm claiming that Roger only uses Blunt Damage attacks while wielding his Sword, right.. And his Sword is his only mean of fighting.. Considering that Roger solely perform Blunt Damage Sword based attacks, then he's not a Swordsman.. Why?..
Because the fundamental of Swords and Swordsmanship is to slash the opponent with the Sharp Edge Blade.. Wielding a Sword doesn't make you a Swordsman..

Rocks is a whole other beast..

According to who?

source?

I'm not going to debate this.. The fundamental goal of Swords and Swordsmanship is to cut down your opponent, just like the fundamental goal or purpose of chair is for a human to sit on it..

no Roger wasn’t close enough for his sword to hit Rocks. Roger’s swords aren’t blunt. If they were close enough they would have cut Rocks

Doesn't matter, they are not the same type of attack and execution, Zoro physically strikes Hacchi, Roger doesn't.. Plus it's Black Lightning Haki..

So then the form of Rocks’ blunt force isn’t irrelevant too?

I mean Zoro does blunt force attacks all the time and yet he’s not famous for them

If you’re saying T-bone shouldn’t be famous then Rocks shouldn’t be either

A right angle Flying slash compared to curbed Flying slash is inconsequential.. It's just a Flying Slash..
Rocks' Sword Skill is Haki based, which is a very relevant power and technique whatever it is..

The point is that there are the Sword Skills that pertains to the Pinnacle of Swordsmanship path and Sword Skills that don't which are not Swordsmanship..

this analogy breaks down because Zoro is a swordsman who has several blunt force attacks.

And yet Zoro’s blunt force attacks are all swordsmanship and Zoro isn’t disqualified from being a swordsman for using them

Are you seeing your circular logic yet? You don’t think Blunt force is swordsmanship when no one in the story has ever even slightly said such a thing.

Why you keep going back to Zoro.. Most of Zoro's attacks are not Blunt Damage.. Every of Roger's attacks are, i'm claiming that he's a Sword User that deals only Blunt Damage, therefore he's not a Swordsman..

 

[Kiri]

Lets start over.. I'm claiming that Roger only uses Blunt Damage attacks while wielding his Sword, right.. And his Sword is his only mean of fighting.. Considering that Roger solely perform Blunt Damage Sword based attacks, then he's not a Swordsman.. Why?..
Because the fundamental of Swords and Swordsmanship is to slash the opponent with the Sharp Edge Blade.. Wielding a Sword doesn't make you a Swordsman..

Rocks is a whole other beast..

I'm not going to debate this.. The fundamental goal of Swords and Swordsmanship is to cut down your opponent, just like the fundamental goal or purpose of chair is for a human to sit on it..


Doesn't matter, they are not the same type of attack and execution, Zoro physically strikes Hacchi, Roger doesn't.. Plus it's Black Lightning Haki..


A right angle Flying slash compared to curbed Flying slash is inconsequential.. It's just a Flying Slash..
Rocks' Sword Skill is Haki based, which is a very relevant power and technique whatever it is..

The point is that there are the Sword Skills that pertains to the Pinnacle of Swordsmanship path and Sword Skills that don't which are not Swordsmanship..


Why you keep going back to Zoro.. Most of Zoro's attacks are not Blunt Damage.. Every of Roger's attacks are, i'm claiming that he's a Sword User that deals only Blunt Damage, therefore he's not a Swordsman..

So you just repeat what you already said, which i already debunked, then go onto say a statement that objectively isn't true.

So you concede, fair enough

 

[Rootbeer]

So you just repeat what you already said, which i already debunked, then go onto say a statement that objectively isn't true.

So you concede, fair enough

How can you debunk that.. It's a matter of opinion..

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I'm not going to debate this.. The fundamental goal of Swords and Swordsmanship is to cut down your opponent, just like the fundamental goal or purpose of chair is for a human to sit on it..

Source?

Doesn't matter, they are not the same type of attack and execution, Zoro physically strikes Hacchi, Roger doesn't.. Plus it's Black Lightning Haki..

Tatsumaki is a long range attack. That Zoro did in close range. Because he could


I have no idea why you think haki effects have anything to do with this discussion

A right angle Flying slash compared to curbed Flying slash is inconsequential.. It's just a Flying Slash..
Rocks' Sword Skill is Haki based, which is a very relevant power and technique whatever it is..

The point is that there are the Sword Skills that pertains to the Pinnacle of Swordsmanship path and Sword Skills that don't which are not Swordsmanship..

There is no character in the story that can change the direction of their flying slashes besides T-bone. But Zoro has done the same blunt force attacks as Rocks

And Zoro is a swordsman yet he can do everything rocks can do

Why you keep going back to Zoro.. Most of Zoro's attacks are not Blunt Damage.. Every of Roger's attacks are, i'm claiming that he's a Sword User that deals only Blunt Damage, therefore he's not a Swordsman..

Zoro is the swordsman with the most abilities in the story. He’s the obvious litmus test for swordsmanship

You’re saying Roger is a swordsman who does specific swordsmanship, exactly like T-bone, he’s a swordsman who uses specific swordsmanship.

Im gonna repeat this until you understand the meaning of “circular logic”. Your point only stands if you can explain why Blunt force should not be considered sword techniques. That way you can say that Roger doesn’t use sword techniques.

but you cannot do this since Zoro and rocks exist as swordsmen who use blunt force and Oda doesn’t give a shit

circular logic. Until you address why Zoro should be disqualified from being a swordsman for using blunt force damage, you ain’t going anywhere

I am literally going to repeat the start of your circular logic until you find a way to address it

 

[Rootbeer]

Source?

You don't need a source to know that a chair's purpose and goal is for a human to sit on it.. You're just using a bad deflecting tactic cause you're being disingenuous..

Tatsumaki is a long range attack. That Zoro did in close range. Because he could


I have no idea why you think haki effects have anything to do with this discussion

Deflecting more here.. Zoro using Tatsumaki on Hacchi isn't a 1for1 comparison to Roger's attack so it doesn't work..

The main topic of this exchange is Roger's attack God of Fire Ace, which is weaponized Black Lightning Haki..

There is no character in the story that can change the direction of their flying slashes besides T-bone. But Zoro has done the same blunt force attacks as Rocks

And Zoro is a swordsman yet he can do everything rocks can do

Ok?.. It's Squared Flying Slashes who cares..

Zoro has not remotely done what Rocks can do.. Blunt Damage is not part of Zoro main fighting style so it's irrelevant..

Zoro is the swordsman with the most abilities in the story. He’s the obvious litmus test for swordsmanship

You’re saying Roger is a swordsman who does specific swordsmanship, exactly like T-bone, he’s a swordsman who uses specific swordsmanship.

Im gonna repeat this until you understand the meaning of “circular logic”. Your point only stands if you can explain why Blunt force should not be considered sword techniques. That way you can say that Roger doesn’t use sword techniques.

but you cannot do this since Zoro and rocks exist as swordsmen who use blunt force and Oda doesn’t give a shit

circular logic. Until you address why Zoro should be disqualified from being a swordsman for using blunt force damage, you ain’t going anywhere

I am literally going to repeat the start of your circular logic until you find a way to address it

You're not addressing my point.. Zoro's main Sword fighting set is not blunt damage, it's Slashing and cutting.. While i'm claiming that Roger is a Sword User that deals only Blunt Damage, therefore he's not a Swordsman.. Another Zoro comparison that doesn't add up..

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

You don't need a source to know that a chair's purpose and goal is for a human to sit on it.. You're just using a bad deflecting tactic cause you're being disingenuous..

I mean in this story where Zoro can literally make his sword stop cutting a leaf because he’s that good of a swordsman? Zoro’s master literally tells him that making his sword blunt is what makes him a great swordsman

in this story where superpowers exist and magic swords exists. You don’t want to get me a source on your claim that swordsmanship means whatever you think it does?

Deflecting more here.. Zoro using Tatsumaki on Hacchi isn't a 1for1 comparison to Roger's attack so it doesn't work..

The main topic of this exchange is Roger's attack God of Fire Ace, which is weaponized Black Lightning Haki..

You said it is suspicious that Roger used a long range attack when he could have used a short range one. Well, Zoro is here doing that too so that’s that.

isn’t interesting just how much random shit Zoro has done in the story that there’s a panel of Zoro doing everything you can imagine

black lighting is a visual effect, it doesn’t exist in the actual manga. Get it? There is no actual lighting coming out of all these characters that is actually doing damage to anything

I hope I don’t have to explain what a visual effect is

Ok?.. It's Squared Flying Slashes who cares..

Zoro has not remotely done what Rocks can do.. Blunt Damage is not part of Zoro main fighting style so it's irrelevant..

Zoro’s clear lance is exactly the same as Rock’s blunt force. It’s even more impressive since it’s controlled to generate blunt force the opposite direction. Zoro’s actually more impressive in using blunt force than Rocks is

I will keep bringing up T-bone every time you talk about how impressive it is for a swordsman to use specifically one type of sword attack

this is also like praising Brook for mostly using fencing. Zoro has two Piercing attacks in his entire arsenal, and Brook’s whole thing is piercing attacks since he’s a fencer.

So just like T-bone, Brook should suddenly be an exception since he doesn’t cut, he pierces, right?

Zoro's main Sword fighting set is not blunt damage, it's Slashing and cutting.. While i'm claiming that Roger is a Sword User that deals only Blunt Damage, therefore he's not a Swordsman.. Another Zoro comparison that doesn't add up..

Roger cut Rocks into pieces so he doesn’t only do blunt force

and why does doing “only blunt force” make you not a swordsman? I mean T-bone does only flying slashes. Brook does only piercing attacks. Aren’t they not swordmen too?

 

[Rootbeer]

Roger cut Rocks into pieces so he doesn’t only do blunt force

and why does doing “only blunt force” make you not a swordsman? I mean T-bone does only flying slashes. Brook does only piercing attacks. Aren’t they not swordmen too?

Uhm.. Because flying slashes and piercing Sword attack Cut.. Blunt Damage doesn't cut obviously..

I realized we are going in circle while getting further and further away from my main point.. So i will reiterate my position just to make it clear, but before i will admit that the visual effect i referred to could indicate a flying thrust which would be cutting.. I wasn't able to prove that those visual effect can only be Blunt Damage Bullet piercing type of attack.. I'm still convinced it is..

This is my hard stance..

- Roger isn't a Swordsman..

- Divine Departure, Wild Spirit, God of Fire Ace, are all Blunt Damage attacks..

- If all your Sword Skills are Blunt Damage, you are not a Swordsman, for a Swordsman mostly cuts..

- The fundamental goal of Swords and Swordsmanship is to cut down people, especially in a Sword Duel for the WSS..


If you have a hard disagreeing point, not disingenuous or deflection of what about Zoro this Zoro that, or refusing to acknowledge simple concept for whatever reason, i will respond.. If not i will let it go..

I also already mentioned many times the example that pistol whipping people and never shooting them doesn't make you a Gunslinger..
If there's a hard rebuttal against this too i will acknowledge it.. If not well..

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

, for a Swordsman mostly cuts..

Source?

The fundamental goal of Swords and Swordsmanship is to cut down people, especially in a Sword Duel for the WSS..

Source?

also already mentioned many times the example that pistol whipping people and never shooting them doesn't make you a Gunslinger..

You are physically incapable of escaping your own circular logic

Zoro using his very many blunt force attacks isn’t the same as Zoro “pistol whipping people” since at no point as Oda ever said that it’s odd or wrong or disqualifying for Zoro to do blunt force attacks

Zoro’s very many blunt force attacks are as much swordsmanship as every other sword attack in the story that Zoro does.

you are trapped. You are mentally trapped in your inability to escape a premise you cannot defend

 

[kom5]

[

Uhm.. Because flying slashes and piercing Sword attack Cut.. Blunt Damage doesn't cut obviously..

I realized we are going in circle while getting further and further away from my main point.. So i will reiterate my position just to make it clear, but before i will admit that the visual effect i referred to could indicate a flying thrust which would be cutting.. I wasn't able to prove that those visual effect can only be Blunt Damage Bullet piercing type of attack.. I'm still convinced it is..

This is my hard stance..

- Roger isn't a Swordsman..

- Divine Departure, Wild Spirit, God of Fire Ace, are all Blunt Damage attacks..

- If all your Sword Skills are Blunt Damage, you are not a Swordsman, for a Swordsman mostly cuts..

- The fundamental goal of Swords and Swordsmanship is to cut down people, especially in a Sword Duel for the WSS..


If you have a hard disagreeing point, not disingenuous or deflection of what about Zoro this Zoro that, or refusing to acknowledge simple concept for whatever reason, i will respond.. If not i will let it go..

I also already mentioned many times the example that pistol whipping people and never shooting them doesn't make you a Gunslinger..
If there's a hard rebuttal against this too i will acknowledge it.. If not well..

I never read such a dumbshit in this forum and I read ton of it but this is even worse than someone thought that Harald doesnt know that Dorry and Brogy are duelling on lil Garden. Its clearly worse. To hear a sharp sword doesnt cut peple awful really really awful.

 

[Rootbeer]

Source?



Source?



You are physically incapable of escaping your own circular logic

Zoro using his very many blunt force attacks isn’t the same as Zoro “pistol whipping people” since at no point as Oda ever said that it’s odd or wrong or disqualifying for Zoro to do blunt force attacks

Zoro’s very many blunt force attacks are as much swordsmanship as every other sword attack in the story that Zoro does.

you are trapped. You are mentally trapped in your inability to escape a premise you cannot defend

Alright.. You repeated yourself and gave nothing of substance.. This is it..