Character Discussion Imu is clearly the Final Villain

[ZenZu]

Unfortunately, I am talking about technicalities.

So, when I say Blackbeard is the Final Villain, I mean, the series will conclude with his defeat. It doesn't matter if his fight lasts 10 chapters and Imu's is 25. By proxy of being Luffy's absolute last enemy, that is what it is.

And no, I am not suggesting Blackbeard and Sasuke are similar characters. As obviously Luffy will be out for blood there.

Ah so just warning you, nobody cares about this or is even referring to this when they are talking final villain.

Final Villain = the biggest obstacle in the final saga.
VS
Final Villain = Final fight in the manga.

People are talking about the former not the latter. Both of these can be the same character but it doesn't have to be.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

Ah so just warning you, nobody cares about this or is even referring to this when they are talking final villain.

Final Villain = the biggest obstacle in the final saga.
VS
Final Villain = Final fight in the manga.

People are talking about the former not the latter. Both of these can be the same character but it doesn't have to be.

Very well, allow me to explain my stance.

I absolutely concede Luffy is going to defeat Imu, presumably at Mariejois. But I also firmly believe after the fight, Teach will kill Imu and usurp the WG, as Luffy will be too exhausted and they are forced to withdraw. Granted, I believe Pluton will be finally used at this time, and is also a good reason to retreat.

I can't say for certain where they will fight, if at Mariejois, or elsewhere, or for how long Teach's brief tenure as World King will be, though.

 

[Reborn]

Nah Sasuke is not considered the final villain of Naruto. I'm sorry.

When we say final villain we are talking about the biggest baddest obstacle in the final saga. Not simply who fights last by a technicality.

Sasuke and Teach are not on same boat when it comes to Naruto and Luffy

 

[SkySanji]

Sasuke and Teach are not on same boat when it comes to Naruto and Luffy

True, Sasuke is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more important.

 

[Reborn]

True, Sasuke is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more important.

Just like how you think Kaido can solo Loki right?

 

[SkySanji]

Just like how you think Kaido can solo Loki right?

You actually think Fatbeard is the Sasuke of One Piece? Holy shit, you're beyond delusional.

 

[Reborn]

You actually think Fatbeard is the Sasuke of One Piece? Holy shit, you're beyond delusional.

Funny that you have such IQ to made that conclusions from a post of mine which says Teach and Sasuke aren't on same boat and me highlighting you belief that Kaido can solo Loki lmao

Sit down bro. You aren't cut out for this

 

[SkySanji]

Funny that you have IQ to made that conclusions from a post of mine which says Teach and Sasuke aren't on same boat and me highlighting you belief that Kaido can solo Loki lmao

Sit down bro. You aren't cut out for this

So then why did you reply that shit to me saying Sasuke is far more important than Fatbeard

 

[ElderOnitar]

I think alot has to do with longevity of the story.

For a good chunk of one piece story (15 years I guess) we had been fed this narrative that WG is true suppressor and evil while Ancient Kingdom was good - slavery, ohara incident, Ace execution, Robin's plot, cleansing and Reverie.

Oda fed this narrative for so long that WG came across as real big bad.


However, in recent times, we have seen hints which kind of goes against what we were being fed


1) Rayleigh who knows true history asked Robin to figure out history herself and perhaps she will reach to different conclusion than he did - the first major hint which reflected there's more to Ancient Kingdom lore than what we were being fed.

2) VP who did research on the history was conflicted about the history. VG lore came nearly decade after Rayleigh's hint and it double down on it.

In short, two people who knows true history had been portrayed to be conflicted about the ancient kingdom.

3) Entire Xebec flashback and Davy Jones plot hinted at Davy being the ruler of Ancient Kingdom which is in line with the conflicting opinions Rayleigh and VP has.

4) Lily's plot - Lily is the ancestor of Vivi and and one of 20 who allied with IMU against Ancient Kingdom. It's after formation of WG that she disappeared.

Considering how good Alabasta kingdom had been portrayed and how good vivi is, I feel it's safe to assume that Lily joined hands with IMU and remaining 18 kings against Ancient Kingdom because she felt AK's rule was bigger evil.

Infact, she perhaps felt to stay below and diverge from WG later when she realized that WG is creating a order of racial superiority of 20 families and not true government as she believed.

5) Hints of IMU and Joyboy being allies or friends

6) Xebec and BB - both having goal of King of the World - a status IMU has can't be just mere wishful thinking or coincidence unless Davy was the real king.


7) And, most importantly, slavery aside, WG actually is trying to establish a world order for 800 years. WG portrayal is more like far right elected government who wants nations to ally or affilate with them so they can have a world order with balance of power.

All of their acts so far has been centered around just two things
1) Maintain order
2)Suppress any information or event that can lead to Ancient Kingdom

Yet, they are clearly struggling in achieving them. And, more they struggled, more authoritarian in approach they became - more power they abused to force nations to go as per their world order and beliefs.

As I said earlier, WG is an organisation with good intentions but with bad means to achieve them.

Davy Jones seem like a bigger evil in the past who ruled Ancient Kingdom with iron fist and made entire world the enemy of the ancient kingdom- a true dictator kind of vibe (something I didn't feel seeing IMU at all)


Joyboy story of being the first pirate who sailed to seek freedom fits this narrative as well.

Hmm, idk about this, it's possible Davy Jones never even properly ruled as king.

We know he had an entire career of piracy (Something even Xebec says), which meant that he came after Joyboy to some degree, since Soyboy is explicitly stated to be the first pirate and the first man to take to the seas. If Davy actually ruled as a previous king that forced the world to go up against him, wouldn't this mean:

1. He gave up or abandoned his throne to go pirating.

2. Or he lost his throne early on and had to follow Joyboy's example of being a pirate (he did this long enough to establish a career as a legendary pirate), and never got it back from Imu or another king of the AK.

We also know from the vegapunk broadcast, that despite whatever happened before, the void century war ultimately came down to the twenty kings specifically forming their alliance against Joyboy's faction. If it came down to the WG alliance trying to lead a war against a tyrannical king Davy, then it's hard to believe to present the Luffy analogue as being on the opposite side.

 

[Reborn]

So then why did you reply that shit to me saying Sasuke is far more important than Fatbeard

Because both of their roles and character portrayal differ in their own verse.

Its like comparing apples and oranges and then saying apple is more important than orange or vice versa

 

[Shiroyru]

Just like how you think Kaido can solo Loki right?

He’s 100% right though? Sasuke was a legit deuteragonist.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

But yeah, the closest analogy to Sasuke would be like if Ace survived Marineford, but held a grudge against Luffy for Whitebeard dying or whatever. Blackbeard is absolutely a villain, not a semi-friendly rival, and Luffy absolutely does not like him at all and would never align with him, even to defeat Imu.

 

[Reborn]

He’s 100% right though? Sasuke was a legit deuteragonist.

So?

 

[SkySanji]

Because both of their roles and character portrayal differ in their own verse.

Its like comparing apples and oranges and then saying apple is more important than orange or vice versa

Sasuke is infinitely more important to Naruto the character and the verse than Blackbeard is to Luffy the character and One Piece the verse. There is no apples to oranges here, that is simply an objective fact.

 

[Reborn]

Sasuke is infinitely more important to Naruto the character and the verse than Blackbeard is to Luffy the character and One Piece the verse. There is no apples to oranges here, that is simply an objective fact.

Importance is contextually subjective and not objective fact.

Sasuke and Teach still doesn't sit on same boat.

Their roles are so different that even comparing them is absurd.

 

[SkySanji]

Importance is contextually subjective and not objective fact.

Sasuke and Teach still doesn't sit on same boat.

Their roles are so different than even comparing them is absurd.

As I said, delusional.

Fatbeard is closer to Kiba than Sasuke.

 

[Reborn]

As I said, delusional.

Fatbeard is closer to Kiba than Sasuke.

As I said, sit down. You aren't cut out for this.

 

[ZenZu]

Sasuke and Teach are not on same boat when it comes to Naruto and Luffy

I just used Sasuke as an example of an opponent that comes last but fandom still consider someone who fought before him the FV.

The question we should be asking is who will be the biggest obstacle in this verse for Luffy and potentially others? That's what people mean when they are referring to FV.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

Of course, the differences are Naruto VS Sasuke was merely a boyhood rivalry of who was the best whereas Luffy VS Teach is for the control of the Dawn of the New Era, of who basically guides the world's fate.

So, the latter is quite a bit more high-stakes.

 

[ZenZu]

Of course, the differences are Naruto VS Sasuke was merely a boyhood rivalry of who was the best whereas Luffy VS Teach is for the control of the Dawn of the New Era, of who basically guides the world's fate.

So, the latter is quite a bit more high-stakes.

It stopped being that post timeskip. Sasuke was not even interested in Naruto or fighting him. Sasuke was a legit villain at some point, he joined forces for the war but his ulterior motive was to control the dawn of a new era quite literally. He wanted to kill Naruto.