Future Events Will there be a Civilization on Lodestar?
- Thread starter Dettles
- Start date
I could honestly see it going either way? It kind of depends on how connected Lodestar ends up being to Laugh Tale itself.
I think most people are assuming Lodestar and Laugh Tale are completely different locations on the ocean. And that's completely fair, because we HAVE been led to believe that. If they are different locations, then I think we're almost guaranteed to get some sort of small civilization on Lodestar. Oda LOVES designing new characters. And Lodestar would probably be one of his last chances to design a cast of wacky new characters. So, I could see us getting a smaller village on Lodestar. Maybe it's a village full of D-Clan members. Kind of similar to what we saw on God Valley. God Valley's sister island, more or less.
But, on the other hand, the more I think about it...the more I wonder if the Log Pose and the Poneglyphs have basically been leading us to the same place this whole time. Just with greater and greater detail.
I could see Lodestar ending up being the "gateway" that you need to go through in order to get to Laugh Tale. And Laugh Tale is probably underground.
We started out with one Log Pose that could only point in 1 direction, once the Strawhats got to the Grand Line. Then, when they got to the New World, they had to upgrade a Log Pose that had 3 needles instead of just one.
(Chapter 653)
Later on, we learned about the 4 Road Poneglyphs that will lead you to Laugh Tale.
(Chapter 818)
1, 3, 4 (we kinda skipped "2")...the Strawhats have slowly been getting "upgraded" ways to find the way to their destination. 1 directions lets you know what general direction to start heading. 3 directions let you triangulate your journey so you can be more precise. And 4 directions allow you to add "depth" to the equation. How high or how low you have to go in order to go to find Laugh Tale.
WAY back in Zou, Nami was worried about no longer following the Log Poses.
(Chapter 820)
But, Inuarashi told them that the Poneglyphs would show them the way better than the Log Poses would.
(Chapter 820, again)
So, I think it's actually pretty likely that both the Log Poses and the Road Poneglyphs are leading you to the same general area. It's just that with the Poneglyphs you also add in a factor of "depth". Nami was NEVER taking us in the wrong direction, she just needed upgraded equipment.
I've talked a little bit about it before, you really only need 3 locations in order to triangulate something. So, that fourth Road Poneglyph must be for adding in another factor. And I think it's "depth" that shows you how deep you have to go.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...earth-imu-lulusias-elbaph.80780/#post-6659980
So, if that's the case, it's possible that there is NO civilization on Lodestar. Because Lodestar is actually directly ABOVE where Laugh Tale is! We could be FAR closer to the end of the journey than we think.
When someone reaches Lodestar, it's possible they find some ancient ruins that tells them about the Road Poneglyphs and not much else. The Log Poses tell them they're at the end of the journey, but there's nothing there. But, the TRUE treasure is basically right under their feet! If Lodestar IS the gateway to Laugh Tale in some form, I could see Lodestar just being a deserted island, with maybe some Ancient Civilization ruins. Maybe with ONE person living there, possibly someone immortal like Imu seems to be.
You might be asking "Well, if the Log Poses can point UP to a Sky Island...then why couldn't they just point DOWN to where Laugh Tale is, if it's just underground?". And...I really don't have a solid answer for that! In theory, it SHOULD work like that. The Log Poses SHOULD just be able to point down. Although, we know it only takes half a day for the New World Log Pose to set it's new destination, compared to the Paradise Log Poses which can be more random, even taking multiple days or months or years in some cases. So, supposedly, the "magnetic signal" is probably getting stronger and stronger the closer you get to Lodestar. So, once you reach Lodestar...it's possible that the Log Pose just starts going crazy from all the magnetic signals all around you. Making the Log Pose completely worthless on Lodestar itself. So, you'd need the coordinates found on the 4 Road Poneglyphs, instead, in order to find your way. But, that's a lot of speculation.
As for why Lodestar is important...well, that's a much longer idea that I've already discussed. But, basically, I think Lodestar is actually the center of the Ancient Kingdom.
The Ancient Kingdom...is actually EVERY ISLAND we've been visiting on the Grand Line. Just split up and dragged across the World by Continent Pullers like Oars. Every island on the Grand Line may actually have originally been one giant super-continent in the past, like Pangaea. Which would kind of explain why there are magnetic fields connecting each of these islands together in the first place. The magnetic fields are the "rope" that was used to drag these islands all across the world. The Grand Line is a man-made construct of the Ancient Kingdom.
The different islands of the Grand Line are connected to each other, because they all used to be one, larger landmass. They're pointing to the nearest "jigsaw puzzle piece" that used to be it's "neighbor". Think of it as similar to Vivre Cards, how they're pulled towards each other by some mysterious force, which might also be related to all this. With Lodestar probably being the "center" of that super-continent, and probably the former capitol of the Ancient Kingdom.
Something...may have happened to cause that entire land to become magnetized. Maybe some super-weapon went off and changed the magnetic field of the entire landmass. Or maybe it is just simply the result of Ancient technology still being active this whole time. Something like Vegapunk's "free energy" that's all around us, in effect. The "energy that's all around us" MAY be the same thing as the Log Pose's magnetic fields. For one reason or another.
(Chapter 1068)
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/the-haki-knot-paradox.77843/#post-6544094
But, it would make some sense for Lodestar to be a gateway to Laugh Tale and the Underworld. If we assume Laugh Tale is where the Forbidden Sun/Mother Flame used to be. According to the Chapter 1138 Mural, it seems like there used to be some power source underground in this world, thus explaining why there's flames painted around the bottom of the Mural. So, it kind of makes sense if there used to be a big, important town in a place with a giant hole with access to the center of the planet. Just like how most civilizations start their towns close to a water source like a river or a lake, a ADVANCED civilization would have THEIR biggest cities next to where their power source would come from. If the Ancient Kingdom used to get their power from a underground source, they would form their capitol around where they dug their main hole TO that power source.
But, one way or another, I'm guessing that we'll be in for some backstory, once we reach Lodestar. We may even get the Void Century flashback there! At the very least, we'll probably get something like the Chapter 1138 Mural there. And...probably some sort of artwork of a "dragon", somewhere on Lodestar. But, that ties into ANOTHER theory, so I'll just leave it at that, for now.
So, this went a little long. To sum up, I'm leaning towards there not being a civilization on Lodestar. If only because that'd give the place a more mysterious and reverent vibe to it. But, it's possible that there are people living there, it's hard to say. And Lodestar COULD turn out to be the ancient capitol of the Ancient Kingdom, the center of a Pangaea-like former landmass, and possibly the gateway to get to Laugh Tale! Lodestar could be a direct gateway to the Underworld! So...yeah, Lodestar could be fairly important, after all. I mean...it's either REALLY important, or we completely skip it. I'm not sure if there's going to be much of a middle ground, here.
I think most people are assuming Lodestar and Laugh Tale are completely different locations on the ocean. And that's completely fair, because we HAVE been led to believe that. If they are different locations, then I think we're almost guaranteed to get some sort of small civilization on Lodestar. Oda LOVES designing new characters. And Lodestar would probably be one of his last chances to design a cast of wacky new characters. So, I could see us getting a smaller village on Lodestar. Maybe it's a village full of D-Clan members. Kind of similar to what we saw on God Valley. God Valley's sister island, more or less.
But, on the other hand, the more I think about it...the more I wonder if the Log Pose and the Poneglyphs have basically been leading us to the same place this whole time. Just with greater and greater detail.
I could see Lodestar ending up being the "gateway" that you need to go through in order to get to Laugh Tale. And Laugh Tale is probably underground.
We started out with one Log Pose that could only point in 1 direction, once the Strawhats got to the Grand Line. Then, when they got to the New World, they had to upgrade a Log Pose that had 3 needles instead of just one.
(Chapter 653)
Later on, we learned about the 4 Road Poneglyphs that will lead you to Laugh Tale.
(Chapter 818)
1, 3, 4 (we kinda skipped "2")...the Strawhats have slowly been getting "upgraded" ways to find the way to their destination. 1 directions lets you know what general direction to start heading. 3 directions let you triangulate your journey so you can be more precise. And 4 directions allow you to add "depth" to the equation. How high or how low you have to go in order to go to find Laugh Tale.
WAY back in Zou, Nami was worried about no longer following the Log Poses.
(Chapter 820)
But, Inuarashi told them that the Poneglyphs would show them the way better than the Log Poses would.
(Chapter 820, again)
So, I think it's actually pretty likely that both the Log Poses and the Road Poneglyphs are leading you to the same general area. It's just that with the Poneglyphs you also add in a factor of "depth". Nami was NEVER taking us in the wrong direction, she just needed upgraded equipment.
I've talked a little bit about it before, you really only need 3 locations in order to triangulate something. So, that fourth Road Poneglyph must be for adding in another factor. And I think it's "depth" that shows you how deep you have to go.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...earth-imu-lulusias-elbaph.80780/#post-6659980
So, if that's the case, it's possible that there is NO civilization on Lodestar. Because Lodestar is actually directly ABOVE where Laugh Tale is! We could be FAR closer to the end of the journey than we think.
When someone reaches Lodestar, it's possible they find some ancient ruins that tells them about the Road Poneglyphs and not much else. The Log Poses tell them they're at the end of the journey, but there's nothing there. But, the TRUE treasure is basically right under their feet! If Lodestar IS the gateway to Laugh Tale in some form, I could see Lodestar just being a deserted island, with maybe some Ancient Civilization ruins. Maybe with ONE person living there, possibly someone immortal like Imu seems to be.
You might be asking "Well, if the Log Poses can point UP to a Sky Island...then why couldn't they just point DOWN to where Laugh Tale is, if it's just underground?". And...I really don't have a solid answer for that! In theory, it SHOULD work like that. The Log Poses SHOULD just be able to point down. Although, we know it only takes half a day for the New World Log Pose to set it's new destination, compared to the Paradise Log Poses which can be more random, even taking multiple days or months or years in some cases. So, supposedly, the "magnetic signal" is probably getting stronger and stronger the closer you get to Lodestar. So, once you reach Lodestar...it's possible that the Log Pose just starts going crazy from all the magnetic signals all around you. Making the Log Pose completely worthless on Lodestar itself. So, you'd need the coordinates found on the 4 Road Poneglyphs, instead, in order to find your way. But, that's a lot of speculation.
As for why Lodestar is important...well, that's a much longer idea that I've already discussed. But, basically, I think Lodestar is actually the center of the Ancient Kingdom.
The Ancient Kingdom...is actually EVERY ISLAND we've been visiting on the Grand Line. Just split up and dragged across the World by Continent Pullers like Oars. Every island on the Grand Line may actually have originally been one giant super-continent in the past, like Pangaea. Which would kind of explain why there are magnetic fields connecting each of these islands together in the first place. The magnetic fields are the "rope" that was used to drag these islands all across the world. The Grand Line is a man-made construct of the Ancient Kingdom.
The different islands of the Grand Line are connected to each other, because they all used to be one, larger landmass. They're pointing to the nearest "jigsaw puzzle piece" that used to be it's "neighbor". Think of it as similar to Vivre Cards, how they're pulled towards each other by some mysterious force, which might also be related to all this. With Lodestar probably being the "center" of that super-continent, and probably the former capitol of the Ancient Kingdom.
Something...may have happened to cause that entire land to become magnetized. Maybe some super-weapon went off and changed the magnetic field of the entire landmass. Or maybe it is just simply the result of Ancient technology still being active this whole time. Something like Vegapunk's "free energy" that's all around us, in effect. The "energy that's all around us" MAY be the same thing as the Log Pose's magnetic fields. For one reason or another.
(Chapter 1068)
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/the-haki-knot-paradox.77843/#post-6544094
I am expecting to see other Haki Knots later on in the story. Almost definitely one at Laugh Tale. Since the One Piece Treasure is also known as "The Great "Hito-Tsunagi" Treasure". With "Hito-Tsunagi" possibly translating to "The rope linking all men". That probably means Haki Knots are a key part of whatever the One Piece Treasure is.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/One_Piece#Name
But, I think we could still see others, too. It probably wasn't just one for Emet and one at Laugh Tale. I think Joyboy could have hidden these knots in various places. There could be one at Lodestar. And there could even be one in that 3000 year old ancient lab that Lilith is exploring on Elbaph. Using another Haki Knot to get rid of Imu and the God's Knights would maybe be a bit repetitive after the way Egghead ended, but it's not impossible. Plus, that could set up Scopper telling us more about these Knots and how the Strawhats could make their own.
More on my Haki Knot thoughts over here:
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...al-the-one-piece-knot-what-we-expected.58965/
As for why we don't see it used more often. I imagine it's some sort of "ancient technique" that got lost to time. Especially since the World Government probably worked pretty hard to try and suppress any knowledge of it. Given Imu's reaction to feeling it happen the first time, I'm guessing the Marines went all "Order 66" on anyone who used to be able to use this technique, back in the past.
It's possible that Haki Knots could even give us a message down the line. As a reference to Quipu knot-writing from Peru. Which was used kind of like a abacus, but may have also been used to record stories. Knots as a early form of writing. One of these Haki Knots could give us the Void Century flashback we've been waiting for. A story told through knots!
https://brasaperuvian.com/blogs/news/peruvian-rope-quipu-ancient-knotted-chronicles
https://www.peruforless.com/blog/quipu
Oh, and one more crazy thought.
Remember the "Continent Pullers" like Oars? (Chapter 470) Well...what do you think they pulled those continents WITH?
ROPE! They MUST have used rope! Of some kind. And that rope would have almost HAVE to have been Haki-enhanced, just to withstand the strain of moving islands around.
And the interesting thing is...we might still be using that "rope" to this very day. Because we know that the different islands of the Grand Line are still linked together, in a way. The Log Poses allow people to follow magnetic "lines" that connect the different islands together, allowing them to navigate the Grand Line.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Log_Pose
(Chapter 105)
Could these magnetic routes be caused by "ropes" that still connect all these islands, under the sea? "Ropes" that allowed Continent Pullers to pull these islands into place? Like Egyptians pulling giant stone blocks with ropes to build the pyramids? Either literal ropes connecting island to island, or magnetic fields that still act like "ropes" of their own. Could all Log Poses basically be following the routes of these old "ropes" that were originally used to build the Grand Line as we know it, today?
The island of the Grand Line effectively acting like a giant Shimenawa rope that wraps around the entire world? Sealing something in the core of the world itself? Like how you might use a Shimenawa rope to seal a demon into a object?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimenawa
https://burialsandbeyond.com/2022/10/15/1000-year-old-boulder-demon-released/
Those theories about the Grand Line being the One Piece Treasure may not have been so far off. In a way. The entire Grand Line could potentially be the largest Haki Knot ever!
Or maybe each island has their own Haki Knot at the core of the island, just waiting to be set off. Maybe the islands formed AROUND the rope, not the other way around. Kind of like how you can make salt crystals form around a piece of string.
https://www.learning4kids.net/2012/10/05/how-to-make-hanging-crystals/
That could be one way to expel Imu from the World. Setting off Haki Knots that lie in wait at the core of every island in the Grand Line all at once. You just need to reach Laugh Tale in order to "pull the string" in order to untie them all at once!
Plus...notice the similarity between the magnetic routes of the Grand Line and the Quipu knot-writing? The Islands are the "knots" and the magnetic fields are the "string", and they all converge together at the same point. Coincidence?! I think (K)NOT! The entire Grand Line...LITERALLY as the story of the history of the World! As the Haki Knot Bombs go off around the World, we could learn a bit more about the history of the Void Century, at the same time! Every "bomb" giving us another piece of the story as it explodes! Giving us a literally "explosive" ending!
...Maybe. We'll see. I'll admit, this one might be a little out there. But, I could see Oda doing something along these lines.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/One_Piece#Name
But, I think we could still see others, too. It probably wasn't just one for Emet and one at Laugh Tale. I think Joyboy could have hidden these knots in various places. There could be one at Lodestar. And there could even be one in that 3000 year old ancient lab that Lilith is exploring on Elbaph. Using another Haki Knot to get rid of Imu and the God's Knights would maybe be a bit repetitive after the way Egghead ended, but it's not impossible. Plus, that could set up Scopper telling us more about these Knots and how the Strawhats could make their own.
More on my Haki Knot thoughts over here:
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...al-the-one-piece-knot-what-we-expected.58965/
As for why we don't see it used more often. I imagine it's some sort of "ancient technique" that got lost to time. Especially since the World Government probably worked pretty hard to try and suppress any knowledge of it. Given Imu's reaction to feeling it happen the first time, I'm guessing the Marines went all "Order 66" on anyone who used to be able to use this technique, back in the past.
It's possible that Haki Knots could even give us a message down the line. As a reference to Quipu knot-writing from Peru. Which was used kind of like a abacus, but may have also been used to record stories. Knots as a early form of writing. One of these Haki Knots could give us the Void Century flashback we've been waiting for. A story told through knots!
https://brasaperuvian.com/blogs/news/peruvian-rope-quipu-ancient-knotted-chronicles
https://www.peruforless.com/blog/quipu
Oh, and one more crazy thought.
Remember the "Continent Pullers" like Oars? (Chapter 470) Well...what do you think they pulled those continents WITH?
ROPE! They MUST have used rope! Of some kind. And that rope would have almost HAVE to have been Haki-enhanced, just to withstand the strain of moving islands around.
And the interesting thing is...we might still be using that "rope" to this very day. Because we know that the different islands of the Grand Line are still linked together, in a way. The Log Poses allow people to follow magnetic "lines" that connect the different islands together, allowing them to navigate the Grand Line.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Log_Pose
(Chapter 105)
Could these magnetic routes be caused by "ropes" that still connect all these islands, under the sea? "Ropes" that allowed Continent Pullers to pull these islands into place? Like Egyptians pulling giant stone blocks with ropes to build the pyramids? Either literal ropes connecting island to island, or magnetic fields that still act like "ropes" of their own. Could all Log Poses basically be following the routes of these old "ropes" that were originally used to build the Grand Line as we know it, today?
The island of the Grand Line effectively acting like a giant Shimenawa rope that wraps around the entire world? Sealing something in the core of the world itself? Like how you might use a Shimenawa rope to seal a demon into a object?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimenawa
https://burialsandbeyond.com/2022/10/15/1000-year-old-boulder-demon-released/
Those theories about the Grand Line being the One Piece Treasure may not have been so far off. In a way. The entire Grand Line could potentially be the largest Haki Knot ever!
Or maybe each island has their own Haki Knot at the core of the island, just waiting to be set off. Maybe the islands formed AROUND the rope, not the other way around. Kind of like how you can make salt crystals form around a piece of string.
https://www.learning4kids.net/2012/10/05/how-to-make-hanging-crystals/
That could be one way to expel Imu from the World. Setting off Haki Knots that lie in wait at the core of every island in the Grand Line all at once. You just need to reach Laugh Tale in order to "pull the string" in order to untie them all at once!
Plus...notice the similarity between the magnetic routes of the Grand Line and the Quipu knot-writing? The Islands are the "knots" and the magnetic fields are the "string", and they all converge together at the same point. Coincidence?! I think (K)NOT! The entire Grand Line...LITERALLY as the story of the history of the World! As the Haki Knot Bombs go off around the World, we could learn a bit more about the history of the Void Century, at the same time! Every "bomb" giving us another piece of the story as it explodes! Giving us a literally "explosive" ending!
...Maybe. We'll see. I'll admit, this one might be a little out there. But, I could see Oda doing something along these lines.
But, one way or another, I'm guessing that we'll be in for some backstory, once we reach Lodestar. We may even get the Void Century flashback there! At the very least, we'll probably get something like the Chapter 1138 Mural there. And...probably some sort of artwork of a "dragon", somewhere on Lodestar. But, that ties into ANOTHER theory, so I'll just leave it at that, for now.
So, this went a little long. To sum up, I'm leaning towards there not being a civilization on Lodestar. If only because that'd give the place a more mysterious and reverent vibe to it. But, it's possible that there are people living there, it's hard to say. And Lodestar COULD turn out to be the ancient capitol of the Ancient Kingdom, the center of a Pangaea-like former landmass, and possibly the gateway to get to Laugh Tale! Lodestar could be a direct gateway to the Underworld! So...yeah, Lodestar could be fairly important, after all. I mean...it's either REALLY important, or we completely skip it. I'm not sure if there's going to be much of a middle ground, here.
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No ones interested in your dick, just the bad takes.
Like, why would Oda even introduce a civilization on Lodestar who have never been contacted by anyone? It's the ultimate technicality after we're told no one before the Roger pirates has visited it. Somehow, this civilization would be more isolated than the Davys of GV and Wano.....
Like, why would Oda even introduce a civilization on Lodestar who have never been contacted by anyone? It's the ultimate technicality after we're told no one before the Roger pirates has visited it. Somehow, this civilization would be more isolated than the Davys of GV and Wano.....
For any number of reasons, dumb mfer.
A civilisation could have been hiding there since the Void Century and gotten the Roger Pirates to keep their secret.
Wano was isolated, not hidden.
God Valley wasn’t known to the World Government until Figarland found it and tried bringing them into the fold to secure their vast natural resources.
Davy clan isn’t the rarest group we know of. Their hiding among non Davy in a safe haven the WG didn’t know of doesn’t a raise issue with another group or groups hiding on Lodestar.
There is nothing precluding Lodestar from having people on it. Your illiterate understanding isn’t my problem.
A civilisation could have been hiding there since the Void Century and gotten the Roger Pirates to keep their secret.
Wano was isolated, not hidden.
God Valley wasn’t known to the World Government until Figarland found it and tried bringing them into the fold to secure their vast natural resources.
Davy clan isn’t the rarest group we know of. Their hiding among non Davy in a safe haven the WG didn’t know of doesn’t a raise issue with another group or groups hiding on Lodestar.
There is nothing precluding Lodestar from having people on it. Your illiterate understanding isn’t my problem.
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Straw hats are getting pretty close to Lodestar, and sure they're fighting the devil, but I feel like they're ready to get there. I feel like Lodestar can't just be this next island on the log pose road. Feels too "easy".
Lots of fodders on Hachinosu and Elbaf, satellites of Shanks' and Blackbeard's crews. What's stopping them from following their log pose and go see Lodestar ? Why did Rocks or Whitebeard or Kaido/BM/Shanks never go ?
The island (and laugh tale) is either hidden or protected with high tech. Tech similar to what Enel found on the moon and what Egghead reached. And it might need people to remain hidden/protected.
Lots of fodders on Hachinosu and Elbaf, satellites of Shanks' and Blackbeard's crews. What's stopping them from following their log pose and go see Lodestar ? Why did Rocks or Whitebeard or Kaido/BM/Shanks never go ?
The island (and laugh tale) is either hidden or protected with high tech. Tech similar to what Enel found on the moon and what Egghead reached. And it might need people to remain hidden/protected.
You're not actually saying anything. No one said that it was *literally* impossible, just that there's no reason to assume so? Oda could also have a population living in the sun if he wants too, it doesn't really change anything.
The Davys of God Valley, who are like the ancient enemies of Imu, and know all about him, live on a public island that anyone can freely visit, in the fucking blues. Garling went for a mission and found out about their culture, presumably because they're just kind of open about it. I don't really think there's a reason to believe there will be a more isolated population than that in the series. What would make you more paranoid than the Davys?
The Davys of God Valley, who are like the ancient enemies of Imu, and know all about him, live on a public island that anyone can freely visit, in the fucking blues. Garling went for a mission and found out about their culture, presumably because they're just kind of open about it. I don't really think there's a reason to believe there will be a more isolated population than that in the series. What would make you more paranoid than the Davys?
