General & Others One Piece is by far one of the best pieces of literature yet
- Thread starter Blax Blah
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This is the answer. You are no longer talking about actual manga events, but about your own emotional attachment to it.
Why you are trying to defend one plot narrative, that has no logic behind with another one? Did that happened in the real world? Tell me where this happened?
Well, you mean that G5 is better than Super Sayajin, now? This is nonsense. Right now, you are trying to twist how narrative structure works to protect your favorite manga.
Gear 5 stripped the narrative of its gravity. When Goku transformed, the stakes didn't vanish. Frieza was still a deadly threat, Namek was still exploding, and Goku was fueled by pure rage and grief. The scene was heavy, dark, and serious. While in One Piece Kaido became just a tool for jumping and laughing. Crazy weight indeed.
Wrong. Luffy always struggled until he won the fight. He was completely outmatched by Crocodile, Lucci, and Katakuri. He didn't win because he used brain. he won through staggering physical endurance, bleeding out, pushing his rubber body past its breaking point, and sheer grit. Recontextualizing his entire journey as 'he was just a special God who didn't need to work hard' destroys the exact emotional core that made people love Luffy in the first place, destroys the whole inspiration. Because the answer is simple, find a god fruit, you can't? Well, kill yourself, because you were born a loser.
You are doing crazy gymnastics right now, to prove that One Piece wasn't ruined, you are downplaying the best things that One Piece carries.
Well, Naruto IS forgotten. Right now, it is remembered mostly thanks to Boruto, which is also not something that people love. More to that, Naruto is universally criticized even today precisely because its ending fell off a cliff due to the Kaguya/Prophecy retcon. People still read it, but its artistic reputation was permanently damaged. You can ask anyone and he will say, Naruto's ending is far from perfect, and was rather dissapointment. You are actively admitting you expect One Piece to suffer the same fate.
Sound the same as eat just this shit and don't think about how it tastes.
Narratively, you need it only for one thing. Would be great if I was wrong in this case. Than One Piece wouldn't be lost.
You hate truth?!
If One Piece is strictly a story about ethics and systemic liberation, the Nika retcon and Luffy's genetic heritage completely break the internal logic of that system.
By introducing a literal 800-year-old prophesied God-fruit and linking it to a genetic elite, Oda shifts the resolution away from systemic/ethical change and moves it entirely into the realm of divine intervention.
Which means only God can save the world. Which is fine for Bible narrative, not for One Piece.
This comparison shows you as an ignorant, incompetent person.
The Resurrection of Christ was foreshadowed and prophesied long, long before he was born as a human. What is more important it was still not plot armor because he accepted suffering and death, while he actually could summon angels and kill all his enemies. This is why his death was a sacrifice.
Bible has many examples of people who made one mistake and paid for it with their lives. No plot armor.
Some people were saved by God, but other people just died. And that's it.
Still not real, because it's just maybe some small answer. Maybe a letter to wait patiently for the reveal.
Why you are trying to defend one plot narrative, that has no logic behind with another one? Did that happened in the real world? Tell me where this happened?
Well, you mean that G5 is better than Super Sayajin, now? This is nonsense. Right now, you are trying to twist how narrative structure works to protect your favorite manga.
Gear 5 stripped the narrative of its gravity. When Goku transformed, the stakes didn't vanish. Frieza was still a deadly threat, Namek was still exploding, and Goku was fueled by pure rage and grief. The scene was heavy, dark, and serious. While in One Piece Kaido became just a tool for jumping and laughing. Crazy weight indeed.
Wrong. Luffy always struggled until he won the fight. He was completely outmatched by Crocodile, Lucci, and Katakuri. He didn't win because he used brain. he won through staggering physical endurance, bleeding out, pushing his rubber body past its breaking point, and sheer grit. Recontextualizing his entire journey as 'he was just a special God who didn't need to work hard' destroys the exact emotional core that made people love Luffy in the first place, destroys the whole inspiration. Because the answer is simple, find a god fruit, you can't? Well, kill yourself, because you were born a loser.
You are doing crazy gymnastics right now, to prove that One Piece wasn't ruined, you are downplaying the best things that One Piece carries.
Well, Naruto IS forgotten. Right now, it is remembered mostly thanks to Boruto, which is also not something that people love. More to that, Naruto is universally criticized even today precisely because its ending fell off a cliff due to the Kaguya/Prophecy retcon. People still read it, but its artistic reputation was permanently damaged. You can ask anyone and he will say, Naruto's ending is far from perfect, and was rather dissapointment. You are actively admitting you expect One Piece to suffer the same fate.
Sound the same as eat just this shit and don't think about how it tastes.
Narratively, you need it only for one thing. Would be great if I was wrong in this case. Than One Piece wouldn't be lost.
You hate truth?!
If One Piece is strictly a story about ethics and systemic liberation, the Nika retcon and Luffy's genetic heritage completely break the internal logic of that system.
By introducing a literal 800-year-old prophesied God-fruit and linking it to a genetic elite, Oda shifts the resolution away from systemic/ethical change and moves it entirely into the realm of divine intervention.
Which means only God can save the world. Which is fine for Bible narrative, not for One Piece.
This comparison shows you as an ignorant, incompetent person.
The Resurrection of Christ was foreshadowed and prophesied long, long before he was born as a human. What is more important it was still not plot armor because he accepted suffering and death, while he actually could summon angels and kill all his enemies. This is why his death was a sacrifice.
Bible has many examples of people who made one mistake and paid for it with their lives. No plot armor.
Some people were saved by God, but other people just died. And that's it.
k. I might surprise you. But I think I will agree for the first time with on with this specific argument.
Then again, if the One Piece is not real.. explain this:
Then again, if the One Piece is not real.. explain this:
Well, I never said that One Piece should became negative, Also, I never said that Bible is negative book.
But divine grace do not equal "plot armor." The way the Bible handles hope is the exact opposite of how One Piece handles them.
For example, why did Christ die? If he were One Piece MC, he would just summon angels and K.O. all his enemies. Also, he was resurrected by the God himself, only after three days. The whole Bible shows that true Peace, Paradise, and Theocracy are earned by patiently awaiting, through suffering, through completing God's will.
A nice example for this are apostles, they earned what they desired? Yes, but almost all of them were killed. They were able to heal or resurrect people, but none of them used God's power to fight against others. Why? Because the Armageddon day hasn't come yet. The Judgement Day is the day when all promises will be fulfilled.
So even if God promises his help, he also said that you shouldn't fear if somebody took your life from you. Why? Well, he promised that he would revive all loyal people to him. Is that plot armor? No, because it's built only on Faith, that will be proved only after the Judgement Day. Meanwhile, everyone will say that your faith is not true. So this hits differently than the random resurrection of characters that should be dead.
I believe Oda was inspired by Bible, because many people in Bible who faced death, including the Jesus never showed any fear of death.
But this again not the Plot Armor, but Faith.
But divine grace do not equal "plot armor." The way the Bible handles hope is the exact opposite of how One Piece handles them.
For example, why did Christ die? If he were One Piece MC, he would just summon angels and K.O. all his enemies. Also, he was resurrected by the God himself, only after three days. The whole Bible shows that true Peace, Paradise, and Theocracy are earned by patiently awaiting, through suffering, through completing God's will.
A nice example for this are apostles, they earned what they desired? Yes, but almost all of them were killed. They were able to heal or resurrect people, but none of them used God's power to fight against others. Why? Because the Armageddon day hasn't come yet. The Judgement Day is the day when all promises will be fulfilled.
So even if God promises his help, he also said that you shouldn't fear if somebody took your life from you. Why? Well, he promised that he would revive all loyal people to him. Is that plot armor? No, because it's built only on Faith, that will be proved only after the Judgement Day. Meanwhile, everyone will say that your faith is not true. So this hits differently than the random resurrection of characters that should be dead.
I believe Oda was inspired by Bible, because many people in Bible who faced death, including the Jesus never showed any fear of death.
But this again not the Plot Armor, but Faith.
It's a more complicated theme with Jesus. He didn't take all sins on himself(like he didn't feel any sin to begin with), rather, he paid the equal price for human sins to God, which allowed God to forgive humans' sins.
So he carried human sins in the way, that he paid the price that he should pay. And died for all human beings. It's the same as paying ransom.
But Kuma was indeed inspired by a Bible, too; he even carried the Bible in his hands.
So he carried human sins in the way, that he paid the price that he should pay. And died for all human beings. It's the same as paying ransom.
But Kuma was indeed inspired by a Bible, too; he even carried the Bible in his hands.
Rather the emotional attachment of others to it. And the relative links between their appreciations and their environment, as demonstrated is the other thread of today.
Germany - WWII and many other dictatures, fascists or not.
Oppression needs constant control, it's not viable and at the end of the day, it only pushes oppressive regime into becoming fat and arrogant.
Yup
Quite literally. While I love SSJ Goku and its emotionnal impact, it doesn't even come close to the emotional and dramatic relevancy of Gear 5. On top of that, to me, the thematics is so much better: SSJ is power through uncontrolled then controlled anger. Gear 5 is power through laugher, freedom and the synchronization between the personnality and ability of the user and its power. Meaning that Luffy didn't became Gear 5 because he had the fruit, he became Gear 5 because he reach a point where he truly was carefree enough to have fun in battle. (and you can check this very parameter back in the chapters prior of his transformation, for the first time, Luffy is actually expressing just how much fun he is having while fighting Kaido, this is the mindset that will allow his own future transformation).
No. It stripped the stakes to replace it with dramatic relevancy. The moment Gear 5 appeared, the dramatic importance and the deapth of the story all deeppened dramatically.
This is why, there are people like me who started to cry once they started to understand what was happening, or people screaming, or people laughing or people in awe.
Dramatic weight doesn't equal tension in storytelling, you can have a dramatic weight in a completely safe environment. (a little exemple : the discovering of the Road poneglyph)
The point of this transformation, was to deliver a catharsis while stripping away the stakes (like any good transformations usually do) and uping the dramatic weight not only to mark this transformation as something new, but something meaningfull.
If dramatic tension is not what you are talking about, what you might be talking about is what you could call the dramatic intensity, which is different from the dramatic tension (the stakes) and the dramatic weight (the meaning).
Gerar 5, has indeed stripped away the dramatic intensity, that you will usually find in many transformation. So in a way, yes it is different. Because people are used - in manga - to love this dramatic intensity. Oda kept this intensity clear for all the Gears of Luffy BUT not Gear 5 indeed. And there is a reason for that:
He transformed the dramatic intensity into laughers.
And this is precisely what you and other people are not liking, because it goes against your expectations of what a good transformation should be. But technically, it's not bad at all, it's simply a different way of environning the transformation.
The intensity of a transformation will be usefull to keep the momentum going, it usually help in showing that despite transforming, the character is still focused and still angry. It can help channel the emotion of the audiance toward a single point to. Usually, this intensity keeps us on edge about the power of the transformation and the seriouseness of the fight.
So yes, I can understand why someone that strip this intensity can rub you the wrong way, but that's exactly the point. Gear 5 is an anti-transformation. It's design to transform your expectations into an absolute perplexity and eventually laughers. You are supposed to be in Kaido's shoes when Luffy attacks Kaido, surprised by each one of his moves and flabbergasted at the sight.
It's the entire point of gear 5, it's what unpologetic freedom is. A roller coaster. It doesn't mean that its bad, Oda simply has others tools to make you care and invested into the transformation rather than intensity. (note that we get that intensity back at the end of the fight still). So basically, people who refused gear 5, did it not because of the quality of the transformation, but the nature of their own expectations. They expected something badass, they got a looney Toon instead.
This is something people who try to act more mature than they are will have a hard time coping with.
There is struggling and struggling. Usually, Luffy will get a broose or two, perhaps even take a bit of time before figuring out how to beat an enemy, but in east Blue, Luffy simply had an easy time. He never had to really count on his stamina like he did in Enies Lobby, or coutn on his ressourcesfullness like in Alabasta.
This is just a fact I'm sorry.
We are talking about East Blue since it is the timespan needed to understand that One Piece is not a story about an underdog like Naruto, but the story of a legend like Ulysse in the Odyssey.
After east blue, Luffy will obviousely struggle and be an underddog, but by this point, you should be understanding that he is destined to have the One Piece or at least come close to having it.
Instead, it seems you (and other people), projected the story of Naruto unto One Piece and failed to understand this parameter.
So let me repeat it again : Narratively. One Piece is the story of a Pirate who saved the world and his crew of legend, probably even narrated from the future either by someone close or as a tale for future generations.
No I'm simply recontextualizing One Piece so that you understand the story that you are reading.
One Piece is not Naruto. It's the Odyssey.
No. From a technical standpoint, Naruto is still amazing. A little bit of flat ending doesn't change that.
Sorry mate.
It will suffer the safe fate. Simply because no ending will be satisfying enough for the expectations of the fanbase. it's simply impossible unless people stop expecting crazy stuff.
The ending will dissapoint, it's just what it is. i've known that for many years now. But it will most likely not be because of bad writing. I will be because of the way people will look at it and read it. it will take years, probably even decades for new generation to finally look at the ending for what it really is.
No it means : create the best conditions for you to appreciate the story.
A reading experience is fundamental because it will imprint the way you will view the story. And the experience doesn't only rest on the music you play or the thing you eat while watching, but also the mindset you are in while reading.
If you expect something to be bad, you will see the bad. If you expect something to be good, you will see the good, if you simply expect yourself to have a very fun time, you will have a fun time. This last one is how I consume One Piece and every story I look at.
Sorry but for the moment, Brook's flashback has no flaws.. so you will have to try really hard to find a way to hate One Piece based on it.
No, I simply contemplating just how much you are not understanding
Okay, I thought my previous sentence was a little harsh but on second thought.. it's an understatement.
So like Joyboy's return then ?
A ressurection is the definition of a plot armor my guy lmao
And its ok. I don't mind ressurections, they are a good narrative tools. A "plot armor" is not necessarily a bad thing., but let's be coherent here.
You are talking about an acceptance of suffering toward death while criticizing a character (Luffy) who is literally willing to die and suffer for his friend and managed to transform himself and thus be narratively rewarded and ressurected by the author precisely because he synchronized himself with his fruit, his own personallity, his actions and his sense of freedom.
Don't talk to me about the bible when you are criticizing something on the same caliber in One Piece.
Accept what you don't like : that Luffy's toon force made you laugh when you expected it to be badass and be done with it.
It's literally the One Piece nature in the sea, meaning that the One Piece is by definition, real.
Why you are trying to defend one plot narrative, that has no logic behind with another one? Did that happened in the real world? Tell me where this happened?
Oppression needs constant control, it's not viable and at the end of the day, it only pushes oppressive regime into becoming fat and arrogant.
Yup
Quite literally. While I love SSJ Goku and its emotionnal impact, it doesn't even come close to the emotional and dramatic relevancy of Gear 5. On top of that, to me, the thematics is so much better: SSJ is power through uncontrolled then controlled anger. Gear 5 is power through laugher, freedom and the synchronization between the personnality and ability of the user and its power. Meaning that Luffy didn't became Gear 5 because he had the fruit, he became Gear 5 because he reach a point where he truly was carefree enough to have fun in battle. (and you can check this very parameter back in the chapters prior of his transformation, for the first time, Luffy is actually expressing just how much fun he is having while fighting Kaido, this is the mindset that will allow his own future transformation).
No. It stripped the stakes to replace it with dramatic relevancy. The moment Gear 5 appeared, the dramatic importance and the deapth of the story all deeppened dramatically.
This is why, there are people like me who started to cry once they started to understand what was happening, or people screaming, or people laughing or people in awe.
Dramatic weight doesn't equal tension in storytelling, you can have a dramatic weight in a completely safe environment. (a little exemple : the discovering of the Road poneglyph)
The point of this transformation, was to deliver a catharsis while stripping away the stakes (like any good transformations usually do) and uping the dramatic weight not only to mark this transformation as something new, but something meaningfull.
If dramatic tension is not what you are talking about, what you might be talking about is what you could call the dramatic intensity, which is different from the dramatic tension (the stakes) and the dramatic weight (the meaning).
Gerar 5, has indeed stripped away the dramatic intensity, that you will usually find in many transformation. So in a way, yes it is different. Because people are used - in manga - to love this dramatic intensity. Oda kept this intensity clear for all the Gears of Luffy BUT not Gear 5 indeed. And there is a reason for that:
He transformed the dramatic intensity into laughers.
And this is precisely what you and other people are not liking, because it goes against your expectations of what a good transformation should be. But technically, it's not bad at all, it's simply a different way of environning the transformation.
The intensity of a transformation will be usefull to keep the momentum going, it usually help in showing that despite transforming, the character is still focused and still angry. It can help channel the emotion of the audiance toward a single point to. Usually, this intensity keeps us on edge about the power of the transformation and the seriouseness of the fight.
So yes, I can understand why someone that strip this intensity can rub you the wrong way, but that's exactly the point. Gear 5 is an anti-transformation. It's design to transform your expectations into an absolute perplexity and eventually laughers. You are supposed to be in Kaido's shoes when Luffy attacks Kaido, surprised by each one of his moves and flabbergasted at the sight.
It's the entire point of gear 5, it's what unpologetic freedom is. A roller coaster. It doesn't mean that its bad, Oda simply has others tools to make you care and invested into the transformation rather than intensity. (note that we get that intensity back at the end of the fight still). So basically, people who refused gear 5, did it not because of the quality of the transformation, but the nature of their own expectations. They expected something badass, they got a looney Toon instead.
This is something people who try to act more mature than they are will have a hard time coping with.
There is struggling and struggling. Usually, Luffy will get a broose or two, perhaps even take a bit of time before figuring out how to beat an enemy, but in east Blue, Luffy simply had an easy time. He never had to really count on his stamina like he did in Enies Lobby, or coutn on his ressourcesfullness like in Alabasta.
This is just a fact I'm sorry.
We are talking about East Blue since it is the timespan needed to understand that One Piece is not a story about an underdog like Naruto, but the story of a legend like Ulysse in the Odyssey.
After east blue, Luffy will obviousely struggle and be an underddog, but by this point, you should be understanding that he is destined to have the One Piece or at least come close to having it.
Instead, it seems you (and other people), projected the story of Naruto unto One Piece and failed to understand this parameter.
So let me repeat it again : Narratively. One Piece is the story of a Pirate who saved the world and his crew of legend, probably even narrated from the future either by someone close or as a tale for future generations.
No I'm simply recontextualizing One Piece so that you understand the story that you are reading.
One Piece is not Naruto. It's the Odyssey.
No. From a technical standpoint, Naruto is still amazing. A little bit of flat ending doesn't change that.
Sorry mate.
It will suffer the safe fate. Simply because no ending will be satisfying enough for the expectations of the fanbase. it's simply impossible unless people stop expecting crazy stuff.
The ending will dissapoint, it's just what it is. i've known that for many years now. But it will most likely not be because of bad writing. I will be because of the way people will look at it and read it. it will take years, probably even decades for new generation to finally look at the ending for what it really is.
No it means : create the best conditions for you to appreciate the story.
A reading experience is fundamental because it will imprint the way you will view the story. And the experience doesn't only rest on the music you play or the thing you eat while watching, but also the mindset you are in while reading.
If you expect something to be bad, you will see the bad. If you expect something to be good, you will see the good, if you simply expect yourself to have a very fun time, you will have a fun time. This last one is how I consume One Piece and every story I look at.
Sorry but for the moment, Brook's flashback has no flaws.. so you will have to try really hard to find a way to hate One Piece based on it.
No, I simply contemplating just how much you are not understanding
Okay, I thought my previous sentence was a little harsh but on second thought.. it's an understatement.
So like Joyboy's return then ?
A ressurection is the definition of a plot armor my guy lmao
And its ok. I don't mind ressurections, they are a good narrative tools. A "plot armor" is not necessarily a bad thing., but let's be coherent here.
You are talking about an acceptance of suffering toward death while criticizing a character (Luffy) who is literally willing to die and suffer for his friend and managed to transform himself and thus be narratively rewarded and ressurected by the author precisely because he synchronized himself with his fruit, his own personallity, his actions and his sense of freedom.
Don't talk to me about the bible when you are criticizing something on the same caliber in One Piece.
Accept what you don't like : that Luffy's toon force made you laugh when you expected it to be badass and be done with it.
It's literally the One Piece nature in the sea, meaning that the One Piece is by definition, real.
1. Most readers only power-scale.
2. The story is emotionally driven.
3. Luffy is a standard monk archetype.
Powerscalers tend to only appreciate manufactured conflict based on estimations. This turns into a lot of tribalism (agenda posting). If that element of the story was removed, the lore and world building of the story actually becomes a snoozefest.
When you see how someone like Logico talks, you can tell he's basing his reasoning on an emotional bias. This isn't impressive. It's a children's story at its heart, so it's actually no more emotional than something like Star Wars is.
As far as this being a good story, it's lukewarm. When you realize Luffy is just a monk archetype the feel-good parts of the story become muddied by being steeped in eastern beliefs. It's not sophisticated, it's a repackaged story.
This could also easily turn into a Peter Pan and Neverland thing, so we're all actually complete idiots for sticking with it for a long time lol if we are sunken into a fallacy then the fallacy is the illusion of Neverland, and it's an illusion we don't want to admit isn't real. That makes us the Lost Boys.
2. The story is emotionally driven.
3. Luffy is a standard monk archetype.
Powerscalers tend to only appreciate manufactured conflict based on estimations. This turns into a lot of tribalism (agenda posting). If that element of the story was removed, the lore and world building of the story actually becomes a snoozefest.
When you see how someone like Logico talks, you can tell he's basing his reasoning on an emotional bias. This isn't impressive. It's a children's story at its heart, so it's actually no more emotional than something like Star Wars is.
As far as this being a good story, it's lukewarm. When you realize Luffy is just a monk archetype the feel-good parts of the story become muddied by being steeped in eastern beliefs. It's not sophisticated, it's a repackaged story.
This could also easily turn into a Peter Pan and Neverland thing, so we're all actually complete idiots for sticking with it for a long time lol if we are sunken into a fallacy then the fallacy is the illusion of Neverland, and it's an illusion we don't want to admit isn't real. That makes us the Lost Boys.
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Well, I disagree that it's earned, it's a free gift
And faith is not proven after judgement day, because if you trusted Jesus to save you, you are told that you already have eternal life
1 John 5:13
King James Version
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God ; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
And faith is not proven after judgement day, because if you trusted Jesus to save you, you are told that you already have eternal life
1 John 5:13
King James Version
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God ; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Yes, this is a gift. You cannot earn eternal life. Buf in the same time look at Rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life
also
Rom 2:6,7
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
2 Timothy 4:7-8
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
So, you cannot earn eternal life, because such a gift is something that cannot be earned. BUT in the same time you can show your Faith, that you are worth to be the one who should receive this gift. Also, Jesus Christ said the very same thing: you have to survive tribulation, and only then will he bestow you the Crown of Life.
As for this, look on another place:
2 Thessalonians 2:1 - 10 or like that:
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
And another place:
1 Thessalonians 1:6-10
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
And if compare to 1 Thessal 4:13-17
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
You will see that "Reward" will not be given immediately, but it will wait until Judgment Day comes. Then those who "won" the crown of life, will get eternal life. So if people die without getting a reward, it's not a problem because the unearned reward will be given through the resurrection.
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life
also
Rom 2:6,7
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
2 Timothy 4:7-8
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
So, you cannot earn eternal life, because such a gift is something that cannot be earned. BUT in the same time you can show your Faith, that you are worth to be the one who should receive this gift. Also, Jesus Christ said the very same thing: you have to survive tribulation, and only then will he bestow you the Crown of Life.
As for this, look on another place:
2 Thessalonians 2:1 - 10 or like that:
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
And another place:
1 Thessalonians 1:6-10
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
And if compare to 1 Thessal 4:13-17
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
You will see that "Reward" will not be given immediately, but it will wait until Judgment Day comes. Then those who "won" the crown of life, will get eternal life. So if people die without getting a reward, it's not a problem because the unearned reward will be given through the resurrection.
Hey man, that's not talking about salvation
Those are rewards at the judgement seat of Christ, 5 different crowns are mentioned I think
Keep in mind Corinthians is written to christians, so this is a judgement for christians:
2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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Also in Revelation it's said Jesus Christ has eyes as a flame of fire, that's why it says "the fire shall try every man's work"
Those are rewards at the judgement seat of Christ, 5 different crowns are mentioned I think
Keep in mind Corinthians is written to christians, so this is a judgement for christians:
2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
_____________________
Also in Revelation it's said Jesus Christ has eyes as a flame of fire, that's why it says "the fire shall try every man's work"
James 1:12
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
The crown of life is not the crown of righteousness, because they're called two different things
For example, the Bible talks about the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God, but they are both two different things
Kingdom of heaven is a physical kingdom on the earth
Kingdom of God is peace and joy and righteousness in the Holy Ghost
There are multiple crowns mentioned