Controversial Shanks-Loki-Mihawk contradicted arguments

[Erkan12]

1. Cutting something larger than Mihawk or not means literally noting. If Zoro only had 1 technique, let's say Shishisonson and he got so strong that he could 1 tap Mihawk with that one technique then he WSS. Zoro didn't challenge Mihawk to a cutting competition.
2. You separate Zoro from Sanji by saying who stronger or weaker or if they are equal. What kind of question are you asking. I am so confused.
3. That isn't the Viz BTW and Brannew never said thats what separates them only. He just said Mihawk has Superior swordmanship and that he WSS.

4. What you mean every high level fighter has those things. You told me its skill based though. So its not about twisting your sword a certain way.

5. Here my question and its a very important question. Are you saying if Zoro didn't have ACoC, CoO, CoA, Strength, speed, durability, endurance etc... they is no way he can become WSS. This question is very very important no dodging

You are dodging with this because you know I am right but you are trying to change the subject.

You actually want this title to be WSM, by keep talking about Haki.

Zolo doesn't need to have strongest Haki, that's for WSM title.

The only thing he certainly need to have the best "sword skill", that's it. If you have problem with this, then you need to tell Oda and Zolo that he shouldn't be WGS, he should be WSM so he would need the best Haki not best "sword skill".

The main focus of WGS is "sword skill".
The main focus of WSM is being best at every category Haki, physical stats, AP etc.

 

[Nadel]

"Shanks isn't a swordsman" cope in 2026 is insane work icl

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

You are dodging with this because you know I am right but you are trying to change the subject.

You actually want this title to be WSM, by keep talking about Haki.

Zolo doesn't need to have strongest Haki, that's for WSM title.

The only thing he certainly need to have the best "sword skill", that's it. If you have problem with this, then you need to tell Oda and Zolo that he shouldn't be WGS, he should be WSM so he would need the best Haki not best "sword skill".

The main focus of WGS is "sword skill".
The main focus of WSM is being best at every category Haki, physical stats, AP etc.

1.??? Whats your question. What am I dodging?

2. When did I say anything about WSM? I thought we talking about WSS? Which you admitted included ACoC, all haki, endurance, durability etc...

3. Ok So your answer is all he needs is Sword skills. Then Zoro doesn't need to ACoC, CoO, CoA etc..... to beat Mihawk to prove he WSS. So Zoro should just do techniques with no haki and should be able to win. Cause not about strength according to you but then on the other hand you said they using haki. Like i said earlier. Your logic not adding up

 

[Erkan12]

1.??? Whats your question. What am I dodging?

2. When did I say anything about WSM? I thought we talking about WSS? Which you admitted included ACoC, all haki, endurance, durability etc...

3. Ok So your answer is all he needs is Sword skills. Then Zoro doesn't need to ACoC, CoO, CoA etc..... to beat Mihawk to prove he WSS. So Zoro should just do techniques with no haki and should be able to win. Cause not about strength according to you but then on the other hand you said they using haki. Like i said earlier. Your logic not adding up

If WSM WB decides to leave his naginata, and decides to hold a sword, would have become WGS automatically in that moment? Or if not what does separate WSM WB who is holding a sword from Mihawk? You know the answer, he won't be WGS. Because it's about best sword skill, not overall power level or best Haki.

That's why Oda didn't even say Roger or Xebec have "master swordsman" title, let alone WGS. You think Egghead Zolo > Roger and Xebec because Zolo was called "master swordsman" and they aren't?

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

If WSM WB decides to leave his naginata, and decides to hold a sword, would have become WGS automatically in that moment? Or if not what does separate WSM WB who is holding a sword from Mihawk? You know the answer, he won't be WGS. Because it's about best sword skill, not overall power level or best Haki.

That's why Oda didn't even say Roger or Xebec have "master swordsman" title, let alone WGS. You think Egghead Zolo > Roger and Xebec because Zolo was called "master swordsman" and they aren't?

1. If WB becomes a Swordsman and Oda thinks he stronger than Mihawk in name and actuality then yes.

2. You say its about sword skill than say they using haki to determine who wins WSS title. Lol ngl I don't know what youd saying at this point just flip flopping.

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

What you think about the Zolo vs Mihawk, and Zolo vs Shiryu battles? What diff Zolo will need for each fights?

I think both of them will be extreme diff. I mean Zoro vs Mihawk is obviously extreme diff because it’s been hyped forever. Shiryu is Teachs functional RHM so that’ll be extreme diff too since Teach is gonna be the biggest foil to Luffy in the story. So it’s obvious his crewmates will be big foils for Luffy’s crewmates too.

By extreme diff, I mean I think it’ll be similar to Zoro vs King fight where Zoro starts off weaker or on similar level and is pushed to his limits and is forced to unlock a power up mid fight that will make him a level above both fighters.

I’ve actually written a thread on why I think it’s better if a Shiryu is a better final opponent for Zoro than Mihawk. I would prefer it if Shiryu actually kills Mihawk and Oda subverts our expectations by not making Mihawk vs Zoro happen in the first place

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...-killing-mihawk-skm-is-perfect-writing.69420/

I don’t know if Oda will go along with it. He probably won’t. All I know is that Mihawk is gonna be a lame ass final opponent and I wouldn’t want the writing to be that way

 

[Loki D. Terror]

Lerkan still coping hard?

 

[Erkan12]

1. If WB becomes a Swordsman and Oda thinks he stronger than Mihawk in name and actuality then yes.

2. You say its about sword skill than say they using haki to determine who wins WSS title. Lol ngl I don't know what youd saying at this point just flip flopping.

That's not what I said, I said if WB holds a sword for a moment would he become WGS automatically? He wouldn't, because it's about sword skill not about strongest man who holds a sword.

Haki levels determines who is stronger overall, WGS title is not about strongest Haki, that's WSM/PK/Joy Boy/Davy who will have strongest Haki. So you bringing about Haki is a desperate move, how you gonna decide Haki can be factor when EoS Zolo or Mihawk will never have the best Haki, but Luffy and Luffy's opponents will have the best Haki?

How can the needed Haki be quantified, lets say best WSM/Joy Boy Haki is 100, how much Haki they need for WGS? 80 or 90? They will never have the best Haki so there is no point to bring Haki, if they would have the best Haki their title would evolve to WSM.

The only certain "best" stat about WGS is sword skill, not Haki. Best Haki will belong to WSM/PK/Joy Boy/Davy levels.

I think both of them will be extreme diff. I mean Zoro vs Mihawk is obviously extreme diff because it’s been hyped forever. Shiryu is Teachs functional RHM so that’ll be extreme diff too since Teach is gonna be the biggest foil to Luffy in the story. So it’s obvious his crewmates will be big foils for Luffy’s crewmates too.

By extreme diff, I mean I think it’ll be similar to Zoro vs King fight where Zoro starts off weaker or on similar level and is pushed to his limits and is forced to unlock a power up mid fight that will make him a level above both fighters.

I’ve actually written a thread on why I think it’s better if a Shiryu is a better final opponent for Zoro than Mihawk. I would prefer it if Shiryu actually kills Mihawk and Oda subverts our expectations by not making Mihawk vs Zoro happen in the first place

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...-killing-mihawk-skm-is-perfect-writing.69420/

I don’t know if Oda will go along with it. He probably won’t. All I know is that Mihawk is gonna be a lame ass final opponent and I wouldn’t want the writing to be that way

Shiryu will surpass Shanks too? The most logical way he surpass Mihawk but Shanks's Haki will still be above of Shiryu.

Lerkan still coping hard?

The coping Monsterdumbass who changed his name because he couldn't figure out Oda's manga after reading 1000 chapters. Meanwhile the true Kaido fans pity this coping fool.

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

Shiryu will surpass Shanks too? The most logical way he surpass Mihawk but Shanks's Haki will still be above of Shiryu.

I believe this because I don't think Luffy or Teach are normal Yonkos. I think Teach will be god tier eventually maybe by getting a 3rd fruit and awakening it or some secret lineage Davy Jones power. He's the final villain so I rate him pretty highly. He'll be the strongest character in history until Luffy surpasses him. So Teach will be god tier and Shiryu will be the tier below (above Mihawk in this scenario) where he's capable of pushing Teach to solid mid diff but still gets beaten easily. Idk whether he surpasses Shanks in a timeline where he doesn't kill Mihawk.

But I find it counter productive if Teach's crewmates are too fodder compared to him. We've already seen that the gap between YCs and Yonkos is huge and Teach will be god tier eventually. Whether you think he beats his underlings easily or not, I don't think it's fitting for someone that strong to have fodder YC+ level crewmates, and this is his right hand man we're talking about.

Maybe it can be a parallel to Xebec? Xebec had 3 pre prime Yonkos under his belt so Teach, who will surpass his father, can have someone as strong or above prime Yonko level. It's only fitting. Cause imagine how strong you have to be to command PK level dudes who're in their prime.

Narratively, Shiryu has to surpass Beckman who I rate highly. Shanks has the most "equal" crew with the highest average strength, databooks say even Admirals respect Beckman and he's called the moon to Shanks who is the sun. Shanks vs Beckman will be close fight for sure. Teach will beat and surpass Shanks and maybe Shiryu does the same to Beckman.

Then Teach unlocks a PU which will pull him much ahead of his crew into god tier.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Do you think Shanks beat Loki fair and square?

Why do people ask this? For one thing, it suggests that Shanks would give a fuck about "fair and square"

A grudge over that wouldn't be a good look for Loki at all

 

[uyuu]

Bruh. Ok I'll admit at least your logic is consistent. Fair enough

Idk what to tell you if you think Law vs Mihawk is debatable. Or fuji for that matter. Future feats will definitely be very kind to Mihawk

We're just gonna end up discussing the same thing we've discussed in other threads multiple times over and I don't wanna end up beating the same dead horse. Let's just agree to disagree on this Shanks vs Mihawk thing till any new info pops up

Part of me does hope I'm wrong. Having a bum like Mihawk over shanks is painful as a shanks fan but I don't see Oda reversing it. Hopefully he does prove you right on this topic

This is what i think about Oda's writing and the strongest titles in general

Yeah Shanks can be stronger than Mihawk, especially with Oda's writing

- WSM himself stated he can't be the strongest forever
- Luffy defeating and becoming stronger than WSC since his victory but not becoming/called/titled WSC
- Kaidou imagining Shanks (alongside Xebec and Roger themselves) as Luffy's ceiling but not Mihawk
- Kaidou saying Roger is peak while swordsman Roger is PK not WSS
- Kaidou saying Roger is peak due to haki not sword, give clear distinction between the two
- Loki and even Imu himself don't have strongest title
- Mihawk superior than Shanks in swordsmanship
- Shanks being called child of destiny, some absurd title
- Shanks haki being compared to Joy Boy (this is the new but very strong reasoning)

I think Shanks can be (and is more likely to be) stronger than Mihawk, but i don't think Shanks can be the strongest

 

[gz89]

Which means Shanks isn't just a swordsman

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

That's not what I said, I said if WB holds a sword for a moment would he become WGS automatically? He wouldn't, because it's about sword skill not about strongest man who holds a sword.

Haki levels determines who is stronger overall, WGS title is not about strongest Haki, that's WSM/PK/Joy Boy/Davy who will have strongest Haki. So you bringing about Haki is a desperate move, how you gonna decide Haki can be factor when EoS Zolo or Mihawk will never have the best Haki, but Luffy and Luffy's opponents will have the best Haki?

How can the needed Haki be quantified, lets say best WSM/Joy Boy Haki is 100, how much Haki they need for WGS? 80 or 90? They will never have the best Haki so there is no point to bring Haki, if they would have the best Haki their title would evolve to WSM.

The only certain "best" stat about WGS is sword skill, not Haki. Best Haki will belong to WSM/PK/Joy Boy/Davy levels.


Shiryu will surpass Shanks too? The most logical way he surpass Mihawk but Shanks's Haki will still be above of Shiryu.


The coping Monsterdumbass who changed his name because he couldn't figure out Oda's manga after reading 1000 chapters. Meanwhile the true Kaido fans pity this coping fool.

1. Oh if he holds a sword for a moment. No he wouldn't be WSS then cause he not a swordsman.
2. Bro you said they are using all kinds of things in the fight to determine WSS not just sword skills so like i said Erkan12 your arguing with yourself. Erkan12 is arguing against Erkan12 not me. Lol I picked a side you got two different sides. .
3. What are you talking about lol. You the one that said Haki, endurance, durability etc.... are involved in the WSS determination fight. Then later said you only need Sword skills to determine it. You are literally confused, bamboozled, disoriented lol. You literally arguing with yourself. Lol I don't know what to argue with lol.

4. Why are you bringing up joyboy what that got to do with you said all these things are included in the fight then later said its only sword skills. Lmao

5. Please stop confusing yourself and explain what your arguing. So let me do the questions again so we can be very very clear.

1.DOES ZORO NEED HAKI(All 3 types), PHYSICAL strength, endurance, Durability etc..... to defeat Mihawk and become WSS or just learn how to cut things more cleanly and twist his wrist to become WSS. Pick a side so I know what i am arguing against.

 

[Erkan12]

1. Oh if he holds a sword for a moment. No he wouldn't be WSS then cause he not a swordsman.
2. Bro you said they are using all kinds of things in the fight to determine WSS not just sword skills so like i said Erkan12 your arguing with yourself. Erkan12 is arguing against Erkan12 not me. Lol I picked a side you got two different sides. .
3. What are you talking about lol. You the one that said Haki, endurance, durability etc.... are involved in the WSS determination fight. Then later said you only need Sword skills to determine it. You are literally confused, bamboozled, disoriented lol. You literally arguing with yourself. Lol I don't know what to argue with lol.

4. Why are you bringing up joyboy what that got to do with you said all these things are included in the fight then later said its only sword skills. Lmao

5. Please stop confusing yourself and explain what your arguing. So let me do the questions again so we can be very very clear.

1.DOES ZORO NEED HAKI(All 3 types), PHYSICAL strength, endurance, Durability etc..... to defeat Mihawk and become WSS or just learn how to cut things more cleanly and twist his wrist to become WSS. Pick a side so I know what i am arguing against.

ZKKfan-chan lost his mind What is this essay that yapping about nothing?

I asked you a simple question didn't I? You don't have to essay yapping.

"How can the needed Haki be quantified, lets say best WSM/Joy Boy Haki is 100, how much Haki they need for WGS? 80 or 90? They will never have the best Haki so there is no point to bring Haki, if they would have the best Haki their title would evolve to WSM.

The only certain "best" stat about WGS is sword skill, not Haki. Best Haki will belong to WSM/PK/Joy Boy/Davy levels. "

How are you going to decide what kind of Haki level is needed for WGS title? Because WGS will never have the best Haki, if he gets then the title evolves into superior WSM title, this is very simple not sure why I needed to repeat.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

ZKKfan-chan lost his mind What is this essay that yapping about nothing?

I asked you a simple question didn't I? You don't have to essay yapping.

"How can the needed Haki be quantified, lets say best WSM/Joy Boy Haki is 100, how much Haki they need for WGS? 80 or 90? They will never have the best Haki so there is no point to bring Haki, if they would have the best Haki their title would evolve to WSM.

The only certain "best" stat about WGS is sword skill, not Haki. Best Haki will belong to WSM/PK/Joy Boy/Davy levels. "

How are you going to decide what kind of Haki level is needed for WGS title? Because WGS will never have the best Haki, if he gets then the title evolves into superior WSM title, this is very simple not sure why I needed to repeat.

1. What does them having the best haki or not mean. They can have a 10 in haki for all I care, is haki included in the fight. Which you said yes, then said all that matters is Sword skills. If all that matters is sword skills than Zoro should be able to beat Mihawk without any of those things you listed he should just cut cleanly and twist his wrist better. Which is it.
2. Bro are you going to answer my question or keep running. Here the question again

1.DOES ZORO NEED HAKI(All 3 types), PHYSICAL strength, endurance, Durability etc..... to defeat Mihawk and become WSS or just learn how to cut things more cleanly and twist his wrist to become WSS. Pick a side so I know what i am arguing against.

 

[Erkan12]

1. What does them having the best haki or not mean. They can have a 10 in haki for all I care, is haki included in the fight. Which you said yes, then said all that matters is Sword skills. If all that matters is sword skills than Zoro should be able to beat Mihawk without any of those things you listed he should just cut cleanly and twist his wrist better. Which is it.
2. Bro are you going to answer my question or keep running. Here the question again

1.DOES ZORO NEED HAKI(All 3 types), PHYSICAL strength, endurance, Durability etc..... to defeat Mihawk and become WSS or just learn how to cut things more cleanly and twist his wrist to become WSS. Pick a side so I know what i am arguing against.

I see you are finished. I ask you a question and you say "They can have a 10 in haki for all I care, is haki included in the fight"

What you mean Haki is included or not? If you can't even say what level Haki is needed? They won't have the best Haki so there is no point to bring Haki to this lmao.

They will need to best sword skill, that's why sword skill is more important for WGS, Haki is more important for WSM.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

I see you are finished. I ask you a question and you say "They can have a 10 in haki for all I care, is haki included in the fight"

What you mean Haki is included or not? If you can't even say what level Haki is needed? They won't have the best Haki so there is no point to bring Haki to this lmao.

They will need to best sword skill, that's why sword skill is more important for WGS, Haki is more important for WSM.

I don't know what level of haki is needed. You need enough to compete and defeat wwhoever the current WSS is. How can I give you a number. When Zoro defeats Mihawk and becomes WSS then you probably going need more strength/Haki to defeat him then you needed to defeat Mihawk. So giving you a number makes no sense.

Please amswer the question and I didn't ask you what was more important to WSM vs WSS. Here the question again

1.DOES ZORO NEED HAKI(All 3 types), PHYSICAL strength, endurance, Durability etc..... to defeat Mihawk and become WSS or just learn how to cut things more cleanly and twist his wrist to become WSS. Pick a side so I know what i am arguing against.

 

[Erkan12]

I don't know what level of haki is needed. You need enough to compete and defeat wwhoever the current WSS is. How can I give you a number. When Zoro defeats Mihawk and becomes WSS then you probably going need more strength/Haki to defeat him then you needed to defeat Mihawk. So giving you a number makes no sense.

Please amswer the question and I didn't ask you what was more important to WSM vs WSS. Here the question again

1.DOES ZORO NEED HAKI(All 3 types), PHYSICAL strength, endurance, Durability etc..... to defeat Mihawk and become WSS or just learn how to cut things more cleanly and twist his wrist to become WSS. Pick a side so I know what i am arguing against.

If giving a number makes no sense, and we know they won't have the best Haki so why you bringing about Haki when we don't know how much Haki they need and we know they won't have the best Haki? That's the point. You literally argue for something that's unknown but known to be weaker than the strongest top tiers.

No point in arguing if you can't even compare their Haki to the strongest Haki. Because they won't have the strongest Haki, they will have Haki around EoS Sanji or Rayleigh, not Roger or WB level.

The only certain thing about WGS title is, "sword skill" that Brannew mentioned, that's it.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

If giving a number makes no sense, and we know they won't have the best Haki so why you bringing about Haki when we don't know how much Haki they need and we know they won't have the best Haki? That's the point. You literally argue for something that's unknown but known to be weaker than the strongest top tiers.

No point in arguing if you can't even compare their Haki to the strongest Haki. Because they won't have the strongest Haki, they will have Haki around EoS Sanji or Rayleigh, not Roger or WB level.

The only certain thing about WGS title is, "sword skill" that Brannew mentioned, that's it.

Cause you don't know how much haki for anything you just made some random numbers up 2 posts ago. Ok I will make some random number up like you did so uou can get your amswwr. If joyboy 100 like you said. Let's say you need 88 to defeat Mihawk. Their you go 88 is the number happy now?

What is unknown? You literally said becoming to WSS includes everything then later said its just sword skills.

Now since I answered your question. Answer mine
1.DOES ZORO NEED HAKI(All 3 types), PHYSICAL strength, endurance, Durability etc..... to defeat Mihawk and become WSS or just learn how to cut things more cleanly and twist his wrist to become WSS. Pick a side so I know what i am arguing against.

 

[Erkan12]

Cause you don't know how much haki for anything you just made some random numbers up 2 posts ago. Ok I will make some random number up like you did so uou can get your amswwr. If joyboy 100 like you said. Let's say you need 88 to defeat Mihawk. Their you go 88 is the number happy now?

What is unknown? You literally said becoming to WSS includes everything then later said its just sword skills.

Now since I answered your question. Answer mine
1.DOES ZORO NEED HAKI(All 3 types), PHYSICAL strength, endurance, Durability etc..... to defeat Mihawk and become WSS or just learn how to cut things more cleanly and twist his wrist to become WSS. Pick a side so I know what i am arguing against.

Ok give number about "sword skill" out of 100 now.