Controversial General Political Discussion
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The analogy works perfectly. I think you are trying to dodge it.
If people died frequently you would see an accident every time you go out, it's exceptionnal, it only feels big because of the knowledge of the entire system. Now please, stop dodging the question and answer me. It's important to understand communism.
Why are people still taking their car despite knowing the risk of marginal accident?
If people died frequently you would see an accident every time you go out, it's exceptionnal, it only feels big because of the knowledge of the entire system. Now please, stop dodging the question and answer me. It's important to understand communism.
Why are people still taking their car despite knowing the risk of marginal accident?
The goal of a great system, is not that everyone who participate follows perfectly, the goal of a great system is that enough people follow it for the system not to implode and regulate itself despite the marginal problems.
So.. As you do not seem to want to answer the question, I will answer it for you: The answer is TRUST in systemism. Not the trust in others, but the trust in the system. That trust is systematical, it doesn't come from interconnected bond, it comes from the inconscious or conscious knowledge that the system is strong enough to take into account the marginalized incident.
On the road, you don't have to get a cop every streets to follow the rules, and even without a cop and without the justice system, we would STILL find a way to uphold the circulation system. The reason for this is the knowledge and trust that a good system, even unchecked, creates good behaviors.
And underneeth that affirmation, we have the point of our disagreement. From my point of view, you seems to have a essentialized vision of humanity : "people are like this, people are like that", reenforcing the idea that somehow, we are only facing capitalism because of somekind of "bad nature".
We believe (and frankly know) that humans have no nature outside of the evolutionnary instinct and a few genetics necessecities:
- The need for cooperation
- The need for sociability
- The need for survivability
- The need to understand quickly others (creating our empathy)
We have no "good" or "bad" nature. We are a social specie that needs cooperation and social bonds to strive. And trust me, I know what I'm talking about here when I say that the absence of social bond will enventually destroys one human.
Based on this underestanding we know that systems will forge behaviors. If you trust going out on the road, it's because you have enough reason to think that you will survive the system of circulation no matter if the police is here or not. It's is a systematic trust based on collective cooperation.
Communism or anarchism are the same thing. No one is denying the fact that bad apples can happen within thezse system, but to compare a collective cooperation like both of these system with and under capitalism and saying that they "will not work".. is like comparing your current circulation system with a system where 95% of the population acted like in a GTA game.
No matter how many "bad apple" we will get in a stateless and classless society, we know that the negative cursor of such systeml will always go beyond the positive cursor of the current one. As such, to us, not trying to aim for such a system is completely irrationnal and suicidal.
So.. As you do not seem to want to answer the question, I will answer it for you: The answer is TRUST in systemism. Not the trust in others, but the trust in the system. That trust is systematical, it doesn't come from interconnected bond, it comes from the inconscious or conscious knowledge that the system is strong enough to take into account the marginalized incident.
On the road, you don't have to get a cop every streets to follow the rules, and even without a cop and without the justice system, we would STILL find a way to uphold the circulation system. The reason for this is the knowledge and trust that a good system, even unchecked, creates good behaviors.
And underneeth that affirmation, we have the point of our disagreement. From my point of view, you seems to have a essentialized vision of humanity : "people are like this, people are like that", reenforcing the idea that somehow, we are only facing capitalism because of somekind of "bad nature".
We believe (and frankly know) that humans have no nature outside of the evolutionnary instinct and a few genetics necessecities:
- The need for cooperation
- The need for sociability
- The need for survivability
- The need to understand quickly others (creating our empathy)
We have no "good" or "bad" nature. We are a social specie that needs cooperation and social bonds to strive. And trust me, I know what I'm talking about here when I say that the absence of social bond will enventually destroys one human.
Based on this underestanding we know that systems will forge behaviors. If you trust going out on the road, it's because you have enough reason to think that you will survive the system of circulation no matter if the police is here or not. It's is a systematic trust based on collective cooperation.
Communism or anarchism are the same thing. No one is denying the fact that bad apples can happen within thezse system, but to compare a collective cooperation like both of these system with and under capitalism and saying that they "will not work".. is like comparing your current circulation system with a system where 95% of the population acted like in a GTA game.
No matter how many "bad apple" we will get in a stateless and classless society, we know that the negative cursor of such systeml will always go beyond the positive cursor of the current one. As such, to us, not trying to aim for such a system is completely irrationnal and suicidal.
And really, this is not far off. People tend to completely overlook just how fucked up capitalism is. It's not "a little bit fucked up", not "really fucked up", it's a kind of fucked upry that is completely bonkers.
We have to face the fact that - because of the structure of the system - people who have nothing and can't even pay their own rent and food, who work 45 to 50 hours a week, are defending this system based on the complete dellusional belief that they could be Elon Musk if they tried hard ernough. (and I have seen people in this very thread defend this specific kind of belief).
To us materialist, this is like believing you have flight power because you are floating in a 0 gravity plane that is about to crash down and saying that a parachute wouldn't work.
We have to face the fact that - because of the structure of the system - people who have nothing and can't even pay their own rent and food, who work 45 to 50 hours a week, are defending this system based on the complete dellusional belief that they could be Elon Musk if they tried hard ernough. (and I have seen people in this very thread defend this specific kind of belief).
To us materialist, this is like believing you have flight power because you are floating in a 0 gravity plane that is about to crash down and saying that a parachute wouldn't work.
The same way, dominations systems (outside of capitalism but capitalism is similar) are structured in a way for people under domination to defend their own dominations:
- Black people will try to invizibilize racism
- Non valid people will try to invizibilize their class
- Women will defend patriarchy
etc.
- Black people will try to invizibilize racism
- Non valid people will try to invizibilize their class
- Women will defend patriarchy
etc.
Had this odd thought.
So in America, Zionism is basically a centrist position with both moderate republicans and democrats supporting Israel.
This, among other things, has made it to where Islam in the US is something of a counterculture.
Muslims are notably prominent on the far left of American politics, with antizionism, anti-Islamophobia, and pro immigrant sentiment basically uniting Muslims with the left. You can’t see this with Mamdani, Sayed, and others.
but I wonder if perhaps there is a comparable parallel on the far right. Because the extreme far right(open Neo-Nazis and white supremacists) likewise share antizionist sentiment, viewing Zionism as anti-“America First” and anti-Christian. There are also aspects of fundamentalist Islam that are tbh a bit misogynistic and could resonate with incels. Lastly while many Muslims are immigrants or from immigrant families, Muslims could also be pitted against Hindu Indian immigrants, which the far right similarly view as a 5th column.
I feel like as Muslims continue to assimilate into the US, you will probably see more prominent Muslims on the far right, kind of as an inverse to people like Mamdani. You can already kinda see it with folks like the Tate bros, Sneako, and Myron Gaines. Granted they are kinda irrelevant bozos, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they could be the forerunners of a more prominent Muslim-right in the US.
So in America, Zionism is basically a centrist position with both moderate republicans and democrats supporting Israel.
This, among other things, has made it to where Islam in the US is something of a counterculture.
Muslims are notably prominent on the far left of American politics, with antizionism, anti-Islamophobia, and pro immigrant sentiment basically uniting Muslims with the left. You can’t see this with Mamdani, Sayed, and others.
but I wonder if perhaps there is a comparable parallel on the far right. Because the extreme far right(open Neo-Nazis and white supremacists) likewise share antizionist sentiment, viewing Zionism as anti-“America First” and anti-Christian. There are also aspects of fundamentalist Islam that are tbh a bit misogynistic and could resonate with incels. Lastly while many Muslims are immigrants or from immigrant families, Muslims could also be pitted against Hindu Indian immigrants, which the far right similarly view as a 5th column.
I feel like as Muslims continue to assimilate into the US, you will probably see more prominent Muslims on the far right, kind of as an inverse to people like Mamdani. You can already kinda see it with folks like the Tate bros, Sneako, and Myron Gaines. Granted they are kinda irrelevant bozos, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they could be the forerunners of a more prominent Muslim-right in the US.
True. We are indeed seeing (in France and Europe at least) a surge of far right muslim, aligning with white supremacist in order to survive.
This is one of the example of what I was talking about with the quest for whiteness and the racialization of muslim. In this case, these muslim are trying to assimilate in society and access priviledges that white people do have and in the process, they are using other muslims (the one targeted by the far right and seen as violent usually) to be seen as "an example" while spreading reactionnary position at the same time...
... But like zionist Jews will not be seen as equal to white people under white supremacy even if they ally with them, these muslim won't be seen as white by the supremacist and will eventually be casted out at the first sign of reactance or mistake.
This is one of the example of what I was talking about with the quest for whiteness and the racialization of muslim. In this case, these muslim are trying to assimilate in society and access priviledges that white people do have and in the process, they are using other muslims (the one targeted by the far right and seen as violent usually) to be seen as "an example" while spreading reactionnary position at the same time...
... But like zionist Jews will not be seen as equal to white people under white supremacy even if they ally with them, these muslim won't be seen as white by the supremacist and will eventually be casted out at the first sign of reactance or mistake.
