Powers & Abilities What is this Disney ass “Sense of self” nonsense?

Previously Rayleigh said that CoC cannot be trained to get stronger, it gets stronger passively from the user just getting stronger as a person themselves right?

okay fine. Oda wants his top power in the verse to be vaguely defined so that people don’t ask questions like “how come Imu doesn’t have 800 years of CoC training to be leaps and bounds stronger than the rest of verse in CoC”?

Fine.

But now we have a new gimmick. Turns out some kind of “self recognition” like a Disney princess believing in herself is also a way to strengthen your CoC?

like everytime Luffy says “I’m monkey D Luffy, the man who will be Pirate king” he gets +1 CoC because Self recognition is a stat boost now
"Sense of self" is one of the least Disney things ever this is simply human nature. And it has been a common theme across OP since forever as far back as Baratie arc, it is parallel with an indominatable strong will and shit. And thats all tied to CoC. Ofc this an easy way to get power up but it's actually one of the consistent things in this manga?

This thread feels like complaning for the sake of complaining
 
you can NOT do this if you do not have a sense of self
Every human being has a sense of self so why are you singling out CoC users?

also if you think all this is so obvious, how come no one in the fandom ever mentioned this before… I mean you’re saying that everything this chapter was obvious as fuck right? Well can you find anyone ever saying shit about “sense of self” before this chapter

you Oda defenders are never gonna learn
 
Sense of self" is one of the least Disney things ever this is simply human nature
Right, getting power from believing in yourself is most definitely not Disney. I definitely cannot make you a list of all the Disney movies or cartoons that end with “just believe in yourself”
 

MUUGEN

呪のろいの王
‎
Every human being has a sense of self so why are you singling out CoC users?

also if you think all this is so obvious, how come no one in the fandom ever mentioned this before… I mean you’re saying that everything this chapter was obvious as fuck right? Well can you find anyone ever saying shit about “sense of self” before this chapter

you Oda defenders are never gonna learn
i will breakdown for you.

reading comprehension goes a long way, it is specific to CoC users in this context cause it is literally a 1/1,000,000 trait.

for instance you are confused why "sense of self" matters and believe it is an asspull:
Your sense of self refers to your unique perception of who you are, including your personality traits, values, beliefs, and boundaries. It is the mental blueprint that defines your identity and shapes how you interact with the world around you.

in a literal and real world sense:
A strong sense of self allows you to look at your life independently of other people's opinions or expectations.

Core Components
  • Self-concept: The factual knowledge you have about yourself (e.g., "I am an introvert," "I am a reliable friend," or "I am a fast runner")
  • Self-esteem: The value, worth, and emotional judgment you place on yourself.
  • Autonomy: Your ability to make independent choices, set healthy boundaries, and stay true to your values under social pressure.
  • Continuity: The understanding that you are the same person over time, linking your past experiences, your present actions, and your future goals.
Why It Matters
  • Decision Making: Knowing your values makes it easier to choose career paths, relationships, and lifestyles that genuinely fulfill you.
  • Resilience: A stable sense of identity acts as an anchor, helping you navigate major life changes, criticism, or failure without feeling completely lost.
  • Healthy Boundaries: When you know who you are, you can easily identify what you will and will not tolerate from others.
in a basic surface level of "every human being has a sense of self so why are you singling out CoC users?"

Official Viz Mihawk explanation:
Listen closely Roronoa. All things are in flux, however there is one thing that can resist all change. It is another kind of haki, but this one is not learned through discipline. Remember this, the color of supreme king is something so strong the weak cannot remain standing in its presence"

1. The Definition: An Unchanging Core

The Psychology: In the real world, someone with a fragile sense of self easily conforms to external opinions, gets crushed by criticism, or relies on external validation to feel whole. Conversely, a person with a powerful sense of self projects their identity outward, standing firm in their beliefs and naturally influencing or inspiring others through pure authenticity.

Zoro literally confirms his self doubt even after being told he possesses such power not once or twice and not even from fodder but from true top tiers. Zoro internally does not view himself as captain caliber even though the outside world has viewed him as such since east blue saga.... that is Zoros understanding of what a "conqueror" or user of CoC is, Captains and Leaders and Such.

so when it comes the manga version of "sense of self" and Zoro and his struggle of controlling CoC:
​
  • The Psychology: Psychologically, your sense of self is not just a list of hobbies or temporary moods; it is your unchanging core identity. It represents your foundational values, boundaries, and the absolute certainty of who you are, regardless of shifting circumstances or societal pressures.
  • In the story, this is why CoC cant be learned or altered by physical training alone. It is entirely dependent on the spiritual weight of their conviction.
2. The Impact: Bending Reality vs. Being Bent
Mihawk notes that because of this absolute self-assurance, official Viz translation: "remember this, the color of supreme king is something so strong the weak cannot remain standing in its presence"
  • The Psychology: In the real world, someone with a fragile sense of self easily conforms to external opinions, gets crushed by criticism, or relies on external validation to feel whole. Conversely, a person with a powerful sense of self projects their identity outward, standing firm in their beliefs and naturally influencing or inspiring others through pure authenticity.
  • The Manga Blueprint: This internal psychological strength is literalized as an invisible pressure. When Zoro leans into his absolute identity and dream of becoming the King of Hell/World's Strongest Swordsman, his "sense of self" transforms into a tangible aura—manifesting as black lightning and flames that physically overwhelm his opponent, in this case Sommers, we can make a case for Ashura as well and many other instances namely "bandana zoro"
3. The Requirement: Complete Self-Acceptance
A strong sense of self requires you to look inward and completely accept your identity—flaws, ambitions, and all—without a shred of self-doubt.
  • The Manga Blueprint: As the chapter shows, Zoro initially struggles with consistency because he is trying to mechanically force the power. It only clicks once he stops overthinking the mechanics and fully connects with his core identity; for example, a conqueror's willpower requires total belief in one-self.
this is why Luffy has excelled in CoC mastery and control in such a short span of time while being able to sense it in Zoro, he already had a top tier sensei but its why we see strong leaders such as Katakuri remain at the surface level of CoC. some characters may be outliers like Joker who hasnt fully realized and matured his and Kidd who has nearly just awakened the base of it, both can excel to Luffys level with their headstrong will and "sense of self", where as Kat has just barely even accepted himself and allowed someone else to see him for who he is and no longer hiding behind the mask literally.
 

MUUGEN

呪のろいの王
‎
Enma was the first catalyst to Zoro using COC.
This is a manga on-panel fact
yawn.

i love when people use false narrative fallacies

No, this statement is false.

while enma played a massive role in forcing Zoro to learn how to consciously control and coat his blades in CoC later on, it was not the first catalyst for him unleashing it on panel.

the actual catalyst for Zoros CoC was Rooftop Piece:
Zoro first unconsciously unleashed CoC when he used his Ashura to scar Kaido. After the attack, Kaido explicitly states, "Don't tell me... you have Conqueror's too?!" At this moment, Zoro is completely clueless and tells Kaido he has no idea what he's talking about.

Where Enma Comes In: It isn't until later in his fight against King, that Enma acts as a catalyst. Enma forcefully drains Zoro's Haki at an aggressive rate, testing him. Zoro realizes that to stabilize the sword, he must stop fighting it and completely let his dormant Conqueror's Haki flow freely, knocking out Beast Pirate fodder around him and unlocking King of Hell style.

Zoro's own extreme, near-death fighting spirit and Ashura were the initial catalysts that bloomed his CoC on panel. Enma was the catalyst that forced him to master and coat it consciously.

please stop using non facts to push your headcanon.
 
It is what it is: to define and celebrate Zoro finally being consistently at his 1010 Rooftop Ashura level, the powerlevel of which he scarred Kaidou and defeated King by.
 
i will breakdown for you.

reading comprehension goes a long way, it is specific to CoC users in this context cause it is literally a 1/1,000,000 trait.

for instance you are confused why "sense of self" matters and believe it is an asspull:
Your sense of self refers to your unique perception of who you are, including your personality traits, values, beliefs, and boundaries. It is the mental blueprint that defines your identity and shapes how you interact with the world around you.

in a literal and real world sense:
A strong sense of self allows you to look at your life independently of other people's opinions or expectations.

Core Components
  • Self-concept: The factual knowledge you have about yourself (e.g., "I am an introvert," "I am a reliable friend," or "I am a fast runner")
  • Self-esteem: The value, worth, and emotional judgment you place on yourself.
  • Autonomy: Your ability to make independent choices, set healthy boundaries, and stay true to your values under social pressure.
  • Continuity: The understanding that you are the same person over time, linking your past experiences, your present actions, and your future goals.
Why It Matters
  • Decision Making: Knowing your values makes it easier to choose career paths, relationships, and lifestyles that genuinely fulfill you.
  • Resilience: A stable sense of identity acts as an anchor, helping you navigate major life changes, criticism, or failure without feeling completely lost.
  • Healthy Boundaries: When you know who you are, you can easily identify what you will and will not tolerate from others.
in a basic surface level of "every human being has a sense of self so why are you singling out CoC users?"

Official Viz Mihawk explanation:
Listen closely Roronoa. All things are in flux, however there is one thing that can resist all change. It is another kind of haki, but this one is not learned through discipline. Remember this, the color of supreme king is something so strong the weak cannot remain standing in its presence"

1. The Definition: An Unchanging Core

The Psychology: In the real world, someone with a fragile sense of self easily conforms to external opinions, gets crushed by criticism, or relies on external validation to feel whole. Conversely, a person with a powerful sense of self projects their identity outward, standing firm in their beliefs and naturally influencing or inspiring others through pure authenticity.

Zoro literally confirms his self doubt even after being told he possesses such power not once or twice and not even from fodder but from true top tiers. Zoro internally does not view himself as captain caliber even though the outside world has viewed him as such since east blue saga.... that is Zoros understanding of what a "conqueror" or user of CoC is, Captains and Leaders and Such.

so when it comes the manga version of "sense of self" and Zoro and his struggle of controlling CoC:
​

  • The Psychology: Psychologically, your sense of self is not just a list of hobbies or temporary moods; it is your unchanging core identity. It represents your foundational values, boundaries, and the absolute certainty of who you are, regardless of shifting circumstances or societal pressures.
  • In the story, this is why CoC cant be learned or altered by physical training alone. It is entirely dependent on the spiritual weight of their conviction.
2. The Impact: Bending Reality vs. Being Bent
Mihawk notes that because of this absolute self-assurance, official Viz translation: "remember this, the color of supreme king is something so strong the weak cannot remain standing in its presence"
  • The Psychology: In the real world, someone with a fragile sense of self easily conforms to external opinions, gets crushed by criticism, or relies on external validation to feel whole. Conversely, a person with a powerful sense of self projects their identity outward, standing firm in their beliefs and naturally influencing or inspiring others through pure authenticity.
  • The Manga Blueprint: This internal psychological strength is literalized as an invisible pressure. When Zoro leans into his absolute identity and dream of becoming the King of Hell/World's Strongest Swordsman, his "sense of self" transforms into a tangible aura—manifesting as black lightning and flames that physically overwhelm his opponent, in this case Sommers, we can make a case for Ashura as well and many other instances namely "bandana zoro"
3. The Requirement: Complete Self-Acceptance
A strong sense of self requires you to look inward and completely accept your identity—flaws, ambitions, and all—without a shred of self-doubt.
  • The Manga Blueprint: As the chapter shows, Zoro initially struggles with consistency because he is trying to mechanically force the power. It only clicks once he stops overthinking the mechanics and fully connects with his core identity; for example, a conqueror's willpower requires total belief in one-self.
this is why Luffy has excelled in CoC mastery and control in such a short span of time while being able to sense it in Zoro, he already had a top tier sensei but its why we see strong leaders such as Katakuri remain at the surface level of CoC. some characters may be outliers like Joker who hasnt fully realized and matured his and Kidd who has nearly just awakened the base of it, both can excel to Luffys level with their headstrong will and "sense of self", where as Kat has just barely even accepted himself and allowed someone else to see him for who he is and no longer hiding behind the mask literally.
That’s a lot of AI wankery

you think my problem with this was that I didn’t understand what English dictionary words and concepts mean?
 
that is exactly your problem and why youre crying in a thread you made to bitch about it.
You read my original post and somewhere in it you saw me say “I don’t understand what these words mean”

hilarious

Taking all that time to get an AI summary of shit you think is really deep… goddamn hilarious

Oda is a bad writer not because people don’t understand the shit he writes… It’s because they understand it and it’s shit anyway
 

MUUGEN

呪のろいの王
‎
You read my original post and somewhere in it you saw me say “I don’t understand what these words mean”

hilarious

Taking all that time to get an AI summary of shit you think is really deep… goddamn hilarious

Oda is a bad writer not because people don’t understand the shit he writes… It’s because they understand it and it’s shit anyway
sure lets take a look at you crying like a little bitch.
Previously Rayleigh said that CoC cannot be trained to get stronger, it gets stronger passively from the user just getting stronger as a person themselves right?

okay fine. Oda wants his top power in the verse to be vaguely defined so that people don’t ask questions like “how come Imu doesn’t have 800 years of CoC training to be leaps and bounds stronger than the rest of verse in CoC”?

Fine.

But now we have a new gimmick. Turns out some kind of “self recognition” like a Disney princess believing in herself is also a way to strengthen your CoC?

like everytime Luffy says “I’m monkey D Luffy, the man who will be Pirate king” he gets +1 CoC because Self recognition is a stat boost now
yes CoC directly can NOT be trained stated by Ray and further reiterated by Lihawk in latest chapter, what people get wrong is the secong part:

per manga canon:


emphasis on the MANIFESTION OF THE SPIRIT OF THE USER = SENSE OF SELF, Ray and Lihawkas explanation are the exact same just worded differently

people wouldnt ask why Imu "doesnt have 800 years of CoC training to be leaps and bounds" cause we've already fucking seen it lol like what, he literally came into Elbaph sending a continent size shockwave of CoC, Luffy further comments on it being the strongest hes ever felt, higher than Rayleigh, Gorosei and Kaido to name a few hes witnessed, then we see Imu warping reality DF/CoC combined but he was creating BF DF feats without doing anything this is a direct parallel to Luffys G5 ability which is all CoC based., not even mentioning Gaban himself noted his CoC scales hgiher than anything hes witnessed, garp, roger, wb, shanks etc....

then you begin crying about being a disney princess lol you already do NOT understand what willpower is your example of Luffy yes this is his undying will and sense self already believing and knowing he will become PK or die trying to achieve his dream of being the freest on the sea, this was nodded by Kaido that even when completely KO'd out his CoC was leaking and staring him down directly. that is 100% assurance and sense of ones self continuously imposing their willpower. Zoro has these moments in bandana Zoro and being near death giving it his all to save luffy and protecting his dream of luffy becoming PK.

you get it yet?
 
The problem is that Zoro isn't really exploring himself here. Self doubt has never been a factor for this character. He's just fighting a guy who sprouts thorns. Oda hasn't established any mental block or doubt within Zoro that he needs to overcome, so having him suddenly remember this specific piece of advice feels out of place and worthless. His progression isn't procedural. He's simply doing it, but we don't actually have any way of tracking what he's doing or how he's improving. Oda is adding window dressing to justify the power up.

If Oda had Zoro fight Killingham and revealed that his nightmare was Mihawk himself, then Oda could have Zoro confront a deep seated fear of the very man he seeks to surpass. Not only would that provide an interesting dive into Zoro's mind, but it would also give the flashback much more narrative weight. Maybe we could even see how he lost his eye, revealing that Mihawk was the one who took it. Only by conquering that fear would he be able to fully express his fighting spirit. This wouldn't explain it from a technical standpoint, but it would at least make this "self exploration" angle feel rooted in something.

Luffy, the CoC specialist, had to hone this power for years under multiple masters and against top tier opponents, undergoing a specific training regimen and developing advanced Haki techniques, while Zoro is apparently going to figure it all out in a single fight, starting from pure ignorance. Sanji is heading down the same path as well. It's whatever.
 
Ashura Zoro is stronger than this Zoro
No, being scarred by Zoro is a sign for Kaidou that Zoro can use CoC, just like how Kaidou recognized Luffy performed CoC when fainted at Kuri. Vs King, Zoro displayed CoC as well, but now should be the time he can use CoC willingly.
 
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