Controversial Worst Written Manga Here?

R1: Worst Written Manga Here? R2: Your Fave Manga Here?


  • Total voters
    28

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
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#21
Nothing really makes sense in bleach

the plot, the power level, the setting, the character doesn’t have huge motivation, no real character dev, no strong themes, no real world building etc etc etc

Bleach is cool and I love it very much. But Bleach is objectively far less written than Naruto or One Piece
 
#22
A - This has no relevancy to anything being discussed here.
Actually it does


I don't think so.


There are objectively good and objectively bad things. And no, it does not mean that. A person can simultaneously recognize that something contains both good and bad elements. Just because you focus on one, it doesn't corelate to the other disappearing.
And yet, the perception of the bad can still be altered to seek more bad. This is how some people spent decade seeing the world only with the worst things in mind while some learn to see the good to feel the good. When you train you mind into seeking always the bad, you give it only one path to developp : the bad.

My point is that this forum is training people to seek the bad. Preventing them to seek the good. Your thread is just one iteration out of many. Nothing personnal. If you want my point of view, I think Bleach is the worst one.
 
#23
Nothing really makes sense in bleach

the plot, the power level, the setting, the character doesn’t have huge motivation, no real character dev, no strong themes, no real world building etc etc etc

Bleach is cool and I love it very much. But Bleach is objectively far less written than Naruto or One Piece
Bleach is awesome but a complete trainwreck with almost no logic behind it. Just vibes.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝕴𝖓 𝕿𝖍𝖎𝖘 𝖂𝖔𝖗𝖑𝖉 𝕺𝖓𝖑𝖞 𝕴 𝖆𝖒 𝕶𝖎𝖓𝖌
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#27
Actually it does
No, not really.


I don't think so.
Well then you're wrong again.


And yet, the perception of the bad can still be altered to seek more bad. This is how some people spent decade seeing the world only with the worst things in mind while some learn to see the good to feel the good. When you train you mind into seeking always the bad, you give it only one path to developp : the bad.
But the bad was always there. You simply became aware of it. You didn't magically concoct it out of thin air. You simply noticed it.


And like I mentioned earlier, just because you see the bad, it doesn't make the good disappear. And vice-versa.


My point is that this forum is training people to seek the bad. Preventing them to seek the good. Your thread is just one iteration out of many. Nothing personnal. I
I don't particularly care about any of that.



If you want my point of view, I think Bleach is the worst one.
All that was needed for the thread.
 
#28
But the bad was always there. You simply became aware of it. You didn't magically concoct it out of thin air. You simply noticed it.


And like I mentioned earlier, just because you see the bad, it doesn't make the good disappear. And vice-versa.
Actually yes, you can create bad out of thin air. This is precisely why there is currently a population in the fanbase that see the bad where it is not.

Perception evolves and shapes how we apprehend reality. It works for stories too, you will not apprehend a story the same way if you trust the author or if you don't.

The good doesn't disappear indeed, but just like the bad, you can also shape things to see the good and even more good than what people usually see. This is how I function for ex with One Piece. I purposely shaped my perception toward the good side, I believe it to be a lot healthier than just seeking the bad. I see the bad, but only what is necessary to see, the rest is just an invention. You could say the same for me, but the difference is that my perception is positive and therefore create a positive chain reaction, rather than a negative one.
 
#29
Jojo never appealed for me, never understood the glazing
i'm only on part 2, but from what i've seen, i think it's loved because:
one: the stands (usually) have great designs and interesting powers, and the fights are unique from most other shonen in that they're not just solved by who can punch the hardest or who has better endurance.
two: the art is absolutely fantastic, like, good enough to get into the louvre. it's that great.
three: a lot of great themes and characterization
 
#31
i'm only on part 2, but from what i've seen, i think it's loved because:
one: the stands (usually) have great designs and interesting powers, and the fights are unique from most other shonen in that they're not just solved by who can punch the hardest or who has better endurance.
two: the art is absolutely fantastic, like, good enough to get into the louvre. it's that great.
three: a lot of great themes and characterization
Part 2 is the best.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝕴𝖓 𝕿𝖍𝖎𝖘 𝖂𝖔𝖗𝖑𝖉 𝕺𝖓𝖑𝖞 𝕴 𝖆𝖒 𝕶𝖎𝖓𝖌
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#32
Actually yes, you can create bad out of thin air.
We've clearly defined that there are objectively good and objectively bad things, so no.

What you are talking about is subjectively interpreting certain events. It's conflating terms. You're not creating bad out of thin air, you're creating an interpretation, subjective, of something as bad. The objectively bad things were there always, you simply overlooked them, consciously or subconsciously.


Perception evolves and shapes how we apprehend reality. It works for stories too, you will not apprehend a story the same way if you trust the author or if you don't.
Yes, perception shapes how we apprehend a story, that's true, but when judging how well written something is we apply objective criteria and standards, and not our subjective ones.


If a writer makes a writing decision that is say objectively good and makes sense, you do not have to subjectively like it, and vice-versa. Your interpretation of that decision is well your interpretation and how you perceive it. Just because it is objectively good or objectively bad it doesn't make it subjectively good or bad. Maybe you liked an ending of an arc that was objectively bad, maybe you did not like an objectively good one, etc etc.



You can exaggerate flaws. You can exaggerate strengths. You can overlook either. You can interpret ambiguous evidence negatively or positively. Even non ambiguous one, subjectively tho.

But if you're arguing about whether something is well-written, you ultimately have to move beyond 'my perception that I chose' and justify why your interpretation better explains the actual text.


The good doesn't disappear indeed, but just like the bad, you can also shape things to see the good and even more good than what people usually see. This is how I function for ex with One Piece. I purposely shaped my perception toward the good side, I believe it to be a lot healthier than just seeking the bad. I see the bad, but only what is necessary to see, the rest is just an invention. You could say the same for me, but the difference is that my perception is positive and therefore create a positive chain reaction, rather than a negative one.
Well it is the same for you, and your interpretation is neither more accurate or truer or better. Your personal interpretation and approach is all yours buddy, but you cannot impose it on other people.

You're going at it backwards. You've already made up your mind and reached a conclusion, and are now filtering evidence based on that conclusion rather than shaping the conclusion based on the evidence.





 
#40
We've clearly defined that there are objectively good and objectively bad things, so no.
Good or bad stories can only only be objectively judged on their technique. When the technique is solid and when it is used with purpose and creativity. The rest is a result of perception, which is what happens here.

People do not judge technique, they judge everything else, the content mostly (and do not try to tell me they do, most people here do not have a clue about the actual complexity of the technique used in One Piece and other mediums, they judge the results of their expectations.).

My point is that a perception and interpretation can create bad judgement, out of thin air. Even if technically there is nothing bad. It will be perceived as bad.

Yes, perception shapes how we apprehend a story, that's true, but when judging how well written something is we apply objective criteria and standards, and not our subjective ones.
If people did that, you would see them start to pay actual attention to the quality of the storytelling and techniques used. Which you will often see me developp, in a world of silence.

There are a few that risk themselve to try to counter my analysis with some of theirs indeed, but usually do not last long. Most people love to talk about storytelling, but very few people actually understand its complexity. It takes times, it's a skill.

People are not interested in doing a real critical job of stories here (or in many fandoms), They want their wishes to come true and thus bases their critics on the desillusions created by their illegitimate expectations.

I observe that people usually think they are objective and talking about objective problems or qualities, but they are actually projecting their desillusion on the content. Gear 5 is a very clear cut example of that. Its bad perception in a part of the fanbase was shaped socially, not by the quality of the writing (which was objectively amazing) but by the shape of the expectation of these people.

But if you're arguing about whether something is well-written, you ultimately have to move beyond 'my perception that I chose' and justify why your interpretation better explains the actual text.
I agree. I'll testify you when I'll see arguments that are actually based on the quality of the actual story.

Well it is the same for you, and your interpretation is neither more accurate or truer or better. Your personal interpretation and approach is all yours buddy, but you cannot impose it on other people.
You're going at it backwards. You've already made up your mind and reached a conclusion, and are now filtering evidence based on that conclusion rather than shaping the conclusion based on the evidence.
Indeed. I'm no different in that process at one exception : my interpretation does not ruin my experience of the story each week, it makes it better.
 
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