Powers & Abilities Can Kiku cut through Diamond Jozu?

[ImmaIvanoM]

So Oda is going to introduce a substance harder to cut than Diamond (Kaido's scales) before he ever showcases Diamond being cut into the story, despite the fact that he foreshadowed it hundreds of chapters ago? Seems pretty counterintuitive, unless Oda plans on never having diamond be cut, but then that brings us back to why foreshadow it in the first place.

Aren't poneglyphs and seastone either as hard or harder than diamond? And yet we know for fact that Seastone can be broken and shaped by Wano citizens right? And curiously enough the Kozuki clan are also the only people who can destroy poneglyphs too since they can curve into them.

Seems as though we went past diamond a long time ago and even the things harder than diamond aren't that impressive.

There's even Wapol metal now that tanked a hit from an enraged big mom and it's memory alloy FIXED ITSELF. It's a metal that is very hard to bend and when you bend it, it fixes itself and returns to normal on its own. That's the shit the strongest man couldn't destroy in marineford

Also also, Diamond or Kaido's scales or poneglyphs or whatever are NOT even the hardest things in the story. Bartolomeo's barriers are. We've been past this stuff for YEARS now

Then there's the fact that Diamond isn't even that hard. The amount of strength Luffy used to Break out of the buildings in water seven can shatter a diamond clean. So regular diamond isn't even that hard to begin with.

And the last also is, Zoro did not ever say he wanted to cut diamond. He specifically said it would be a waste to do so.

So that's not foreshadowing.

And as I've explained the Mihawk thing is the exact same situation as Daz Bones.

Really why do you suddenly believe Jozu is at the top of the verse in durability just for blocking a stray attack?

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Aren't poneglyphs and seastone either as hard or harder than diamond? And yet we know for fact that Seastone can be broken and shaped by Wano citizens right? And curiously enough the Kozuki clan are also the only people who can destroy poneglyphs too since they can curve into them.

Seems as though we went past diamond a long time ago and even the things harder than diamond aren't that impressive.

There's even Wapol metal now that tanked a hit from an enraged big mom and it's memory alloy FIXED ITSELF. It's a metal that is very hard to bend and when you bend it, it fixes itself and returns to normal on its own. That's the shit the strongest man couldn't destroy in marineford

Also also, Diamond or Kaido's scales or poneglyphs or whatever are NOT even the hardest things in the story. Bartolomeo's barriers are. We've been past this stuff for YEARS now

Then there's the fact that Diamond isn't even that hard. The amount of strength Luffy used to Break out of the buildings in water seven can shatter a diamond clean. So regular diamond isn't even that hard to begin with.

And the last also is, Zoro did not ever say he wanted to cut diamond. He specifically said it would be a waste to do so.

So that's not foreshadowing.

And as I've explained the Mihawk thing is the exact same situation as Daz Bones.

Really why do you suddenly believe Jozu is at the top of the verse in durability just for blocking a stray attack?

Wapol metal is more resistant to blunt force attacks than it is to cutting, and diamond is more resistant to cutting than it is to blunt force attacks. There's a difference in how the properties of these two substances function. You can easily smash diamond with a hammer, but try and cleanly cut through it with a blade, and it's impossible for a human to achieve that.

And yes cutting diamond was foreshadowed, not just with the Mr. 1 thing, but with the Mihawk situation as well. That's not to say Mihawk can't cut Jozu with his actual blade, because he probably can, but something as powerful as his Strongest flying slash was unable to do it. So it still needs to be showcased. If Oda has no plans on the matter, he would have had Mihawk's attack cut through Jozu right then and there.

In the matter of Kaido's scales, it seems to be more akin to Wapol metal than to diamond. He is way more resistant to blunt force attacks than he is to slashing/cutting attacks. So that's another indicator that cutting through diamond is much harder to do.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

but something as powerful as his Strongest flying slash was unable to do it. So it still needs to be showcased. If Oda has no plans on the matter, he would have had Mihawk's attack cut through Jozu right then and there.

In the matter of Kaido's scales, it seems to be more akin to Wapol metal than to diamond. He is way more resistant to blunt force attacks than he is to slashing/cutting attacks. So that's another indicator that cutting through diamond is much harder to do.

It is not stated anywhere that that's Mihawk strongest slash. It wasn't even a named attack. The head canon of "World's strongest slash" came from a one piece video game that just named it that.

And again we saw a demonstration of how Mihawk's abilities work. He swiped at Luffy and an iceberg was cut. Then he swiped again AT LUFFY and Daz bones tanked that hit. Does that mean Daz bones is as durable as that ice berg? Then Mihawk swipes again and Daz bones goes down. Does that mean that third swipe is like a super swipe? Was that third swipe stronger than the previous two swipes? One of which cut a whole iceberg? Is Daz bones a number of times more durable than a mountain level slash?

See? You can't pretend this doesn't happen. Mihawk's abilities get demonstrates very clearly and for dome reason you don't believe it's the same situat ion as Whitebeard and Jozu. That an attack meant for Whitebeard has a different effect on Jozu? And again there's No proof that it's his best attack.

And I should repeat. Zoro said he DOES NOT want to cut Diamond. Zoro cutting fire is foreshadowing because Zoro says he WANTS to do that. You are saying cutting diamond is foreshadowing yet zoro said he DOES NOT WANT to do that.

Also Kaido is introduced as being immune to everything. swords spears and guillotines couldn't damage this man. That's his introduction. He literally says swords won't cut him as the scabbard attack. And then when they cut him, he says it's Ryou.

It's just advanced haki. That's all that's been said about why Kaido's gets hurt. It's just a coincidence that all the advanced haki users he faces are swordsmen too.

Because Luffy is gonna be punching him up just as effectively as these samurai are cutting him because IT'S JUST RYOU.

Once again I've shown there'sulple things harder than diamond already that have also been destroyed yet for some reason you believe Diamond is the top of the verse.

Like you know the cut Zoro used on Pica is THOUSANDS OF TIMESSAGES stronger than anything required to cut regular diamond. So really? What are we doing?

Neither Diamond nor Jozu himself have any ridiculous lore in the actual story yet here they are top tiers in durability for no reason

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

It is not stated anywhere that that's Mihawk strongest slash. It wasn't even a named attack. The head canon of "World's strongest slash" came from a one piece video game that just named it that.

Cnet128's translation
People: It was stopped!!! // The world's greatest sword strike!!!
Mihawk: .........

And again we saw a demonstration of how Mihawk's abilities work. He swiped at Luffy and an iceberg was cut. Then he swiped again AT LUFFY and Daz bones tanked that hit. Does that mean Daz bones is as durable as that ice berg? Then Mihawk swipes again and Daz bones goes down. Does that mean that third swipe is like a super swipe? Was that third swipe stronger than the previous two swipes? One of which cut a whole iceberg? Is Daz bones a number of times more durable than a mountain level slash?

See? You can't pretend this doesn't happen. Mihawk's abilities get demonstrates very clearly and for dome reason you don't believe it's the same situat ion as Whitebeard and Jozu. That an attack meant for Whitebeard has a different effect on Jozu? And again there's No proof that it's his best attack.

And I should repeat. Zoro said he DOES NOT want to cut Diamond. Zoro cutting fire is foreshadowing because Zoro says he WANTS to do that. You are saying cutting diamond is foreshadowing yet zoro said he DOES NOT WANT to do that.

Also Kaido is introduced as being immune to everything. swords spears and guillotines couldn't damage this man. That's his introduction. He literally says swords won't cut him as the scabbard attack. And then when they cut him, he says it's Ryou.

It's just advanced haki. That's all that's been said about why Kaido's gets hurt. It's just a coincidence that all the advanced haki users he faces are swordsmen too.

Because Luffy is gonna be punching him up just as effectively as these samurai are cutting him because IT'S JUST RYOU.

Once again I've shown there'sulple things harder than diamond already that have also been destroyed yet for some reason you believe Diamond is the top of the verse.

Like you know the cut Zoro used on Pica is THOUSANDS OF TIMESSAGES stronger than anything required to cut regular diamond. So really? What are we doing?

Neither Diamond nor Jozu himself have any ridiculous lore in the actual story yet here they are top tiers in durability for no reason

What are these thing you claim to be harder than Diamond? Seastone was stated to be as hard as Diamond, not harder, and you bring up a Poneglyph like there is any reason for someone to cut one. The Diamond fruit coming into play again at some point in the story is much more plausible than Zoro cutting a Poneglyph for some reason. And if you want to argue Zoro will cut seastone, then guess what, it's still only equated to Diamond. So is Zoro not going to cut neither diamond nor seastone?

So I'll restate what I said earlier, but this time replace diamond with seastone, and you can have at picking that apart now.

So Oda is going to introduce a substance harder to cut than seastone (Kaido's scales) before he ever showcases seastone being cut into the story. Seems pretty counterintuitive, unless Oda plans on never having seastone be cut.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

Cnet128's translation
People: It was stopped!!! // The world's greatest sword strike!!!
Mihawk: .........



What are these thing you claim to be harder than Diamond? Seastone was stated to be as hard as Diamond, not harder, and you bring up a Poneglyph like there is any reason for someone to cut one. The Diamond fruit coming into play again at some point in the story is much more plausible than Zoro cutting a Poneglyph for some reason. And if you want to argue Zoro will cut seastone, then guess what, it's still only equated to Diamond. So is Zoro not going to cut neither diamond nor seastone?

So I'll restate what I said earlier, but this time replace diamond with seastone, and you can have at picking that apart now.

Crydo scales harder than seastone????? What?????

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Crydo scales harder than seastone????? What?????

Don't quote me, that's what @ImmaIvanoM is arguing. Seastone is as hard as diamond, and he says Kaido's scales is harder to cut than Diamond, so by default he's saying it's harder to cut than seastone.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

People: It was stopped!!! // The world's greatest sword strike!!!
Mihawk: .........

You mean other people can name Mihawk's abilities for him?

And then those people can power scale mihawk's ability against the rest of the verse?

Those people know Mihawk's slash was stronger than Big mom's Elbaf spear?

Seastone was stated to be as hard as Diamond, not harder, and you bring up a Poneglyph like there is any reason for someone to cut one

So we know Wano artisans can cut Diamond then right? Normal artisans. Not even warriors. Normal artisans can cut things as hard as diamond then right? That's how they shape Seastone down into nails.

BTW we also saw Law cut Seastone in Punk hazard. In case you forgot that.

And Poneglyphs are harder because they have been stated to be INDESTRUCTIBLE. Also yes, there are very many reasons why people like the world government would want to destroy Poneglyphs. And yes, the Kozuki are the only ones who knew how to destroy them

So we have Poneglypha that are harder than diamond and yet they are also breakable by whatever the Kozuki could do.

Not to mention Barto's barriers being the hardest things in the universe yada yada.

Post automatically merged: Sep 27, 2020

Crydo scales harder than seastone????? What?????

@BigMemeWasHere

Because law cut seastone in Punk hazard and Law CANNOT cut Kaido

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

You mean other people can name Mihawk's abilities for him?

And then those people can power scale mihawk's ability against the rest of the verse?

Those people know Mihawk's slash was stronger than Big mom's Elbaf spear?



So we know Wano artisans can cut Diamond then right? Normal artisans. Not even warriors. Normal artisans can cut things as hard as diamond then right? That's how they shape Seastone down into nails.

BTW we also saw Law cut Seastone in Punk hazard. In case you forgot that.

And Poneglyphs are harder because they have been stated to be INDESTRUCTIBLE. Also yes, there are very many reasons why people like the world government would want to destroy Poneglyphs. And yes, the Kozuki are the only ones who knew how to destroy them

So we have Poneglypha that are harder than diamond and yet they are also breakable by whatever the Kozuki could do.

Not to mention Barto's barriers being the hardest things in the universe yada yada.

I mean the same thing you're saying about Seastone literally applies to the poneglyphs, as the Kozuki clan can carve and shape those also. So it looks like Diamond, Seastone, and Poneglyphs are all off the table, right? So what's going to be the next great cutting feat for a Swordsman, or does it stop at Kaido?

And Law's devil fruit ability bypasses durability, so he's not the best candidate to use in this situation.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

So what's going to be the next great cutting feat for a Swordsman, or does it stop at Kaido?

And Law's devil fruit ability bypasses durability, so he's not the best candidate to use in this situation

Laws devil fruit is not confirmed to "bypass durability". That's fan speculation. Until Law cleaves Kaido in half, we won't know whether Law could just end this arc whenever he wants to.

I brought up law because you said we haven't seen seastone get cut. We have. And the wano artisans plus the navy who shape seastone to make their ships all can do this.

And I'm glad you brought this back to Zoro.

Zoro doesn't need a "great cutting feat" for anything really. I wish you could read what I type next very carefully.

The point of Zoro cutting steel was that he FALSELY assumed the measure of his strength was the strength of substance he could cut. I use the word "falsely" for two reasons.

The lesson he learns from Koshiro is to cut NOTHING. That's the primary thing to this teaching. Zoro asks Koshiro about Cutting steel and Koshiro's answer is the opposite. He fails to cut paper in front of zoro and that's the point. But Zoro doesn't get it. Even when he grows to be an adult, he doesn't get it.

The lesson is "a sword that cuts everything is not a sword". This is what Koshiro teaches him. He was supposed to cut ONLY what he wanted to cut. And to learn that he had to learn to cut nothing.

That's the first reason why Zoro FALSELY assumed the bigger the cut, the netter the swordsman.

Secondly, Zoro REFUSES to cut diamond. People for some reason not only forget that Zoro said he doesn't want to do this, they also forget WHY HE DOESN'T. The lesson he learned was that just being able to cut harder things doesn't make you a better swordsman.

His exact words to Daz are "That would be a waste". Because diamond is precious as it is. Cutting it proves that exactly NOTHING anymore. Because just "cutting a harder thing" no longer means "better swordsman" to Zoro.

Those are the two very glaring reasons why it's very obvious that Zoro DOES NOT NEED A "great cutting feat".

In fact he stops looking for harder things to cut immediately after this. If your reasoning that "great cutting feat" is somehow mandatory for Zoro then it's like saying he's been lacking since Alabasta in substantial progression as a swordsman.

Which isn't true. Zoro progresses as a swordsman ONLY by winning sword fights. That's it. It doesn't matter what big slash he makes, if he doesn't ein a fight, he hasn't progressed.

The story has never focused on Zoro wanting to cut a bigger thing or harder thing since Alabasta because Zoro learned a lesson. He stopped caring about that.

That's why the only thing that has caught his interest since Alabasta is cutting fire. Because of course that's entirely a skill based ability akin to him learning to NOT cut paper.

That's why his most substantial improvement post time skip is training with Enma.

Notice something about Enma. It embodies the exact opposite of what Zoro learned in Alabasta. The sword forces Zoro to cut WHAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO CUT. It forces his to cut a cliff when he's trying to cut a tree. And so he's back to square one. He's back to previous Alabasta Zoro. But he already learned the lesson of ONLY CUT WHAT YOU WANT so this time the challenge comes when his sword itself is forcing him to return to his old ways of big harder cutting means better swordsmsn. And now Zoro has to re-learn the lesson.

Yet in the end, the one and only "great cutting feat" Set up for Zoro since punk hazard is just cutting fire. An entirely skill based ability. Because that's all he needs. He stopped caring about bigger harder cuts a very long time ago.

That's why him cutting a mountain wasn't even an achievement in itself in dressrosa. Like cutting the mountain wasn't a finishing move pulled out at desperation like the Daz bones fight. It was a stepping stone because he still needed to actually beat Pica. Because winning the fight is whats makes him better.

If you read all this then thanks

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Laws devil fruit is not confirmed to "bypass durability". That's fan speculation. Until Law cleaves Kaido in half, we won't know whether Law could just end this arc whenever he wants to.

I brought up law because you said we haven't seen seastone get cut. We have. And the wano artisans plus the navy who shape seastone to make their ships all can do this.

And I'm glad you brought this back to Zoro.

Zoro doesn't need a "great cutting feat" for anything really. I wish you could read what I type next very carefully.

The point of Zoro cutting steel was that he FALSELY assumed the measure of his strength was the strength of substance he could cut. I use the word "falsely" for two reasons.

The lesson he learns from Koshiro is to cut NOTHING. That's the primary thing to this teaching. Zoro asks Koshiro about Cutting steel and Koshiro's answer is the opposite. He fails to cut paper in front of zoro and that's the point. But Zoro doesn't get it. Even when he grows to be an adult, he doesn't get it.

The lesson is "a sword that cuts everything is not a sword". This is what Koshiro teaches him. He was supposed to cut ONLY what he wanted to cut. And to learn that he had to learn to cut nothing.

That's the first reason why Zoro FALSELY assumed the bigger the cut, the netter the swordsman.

Secondly, Zoro REFUSES to cut diamond. People for some reason not only forget that Zoro said he doesn't want to do this, they also forget WHY HE DOESN'T. The lesson he learned was that just being able to cut harder things doesn't make you a better swordsman.

His exact words to Daz are "That would be a waste". Because diamond is precious as it is. Cutting it proves that exactly NOTHING anymore. Because just "cutting a harder thing" no longer means "better swordsman" to Zoro.

Those are the two very glaring reasons why it's very obvious that Zoro DOES NOT NEED A "great cutting feat".

In fact he stops looking for harder things to cut immediately after this. If your reasoning that "great cutting feat" is somehow mandatory for Zoro then it's like saying he's been lacking since Alabasta in substantial progression as a swordsman.

Which isn't true. Zoro progresses as a swordsman ONLY by winning sword fights. That's it. It doesn't matter what big slash he makes, if he doesn't ein a fight, he hasn't progressed.

The story has never focused on Zoro wanting to cut a bigger thing or harder thing since Alabasta because Zoro learned a lesson. He stopped caring about that.

That's why the only thing that has caught his interest since Alabasta is cutting fire. Because of course that's entirely a skill based ability akin to him learning to NOT cut paper.

That's why his most substantial improvement post time skip is training with Enma.

Notice something about Enma. It embodies the exact opposite of what Zoro learned in Alabasta. The sword forces Zoro to cut WHAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO CUT. It forces his to cut a cliff when he's trying to cut a tree. And so he's back to square one. He's back to previous Alabasta Zoro. But he already learned the lesson of ONLY CUT WHAT YOU WANT so this time the challenge comes when his sword itself is forcing him to return to his old ways of big harder cutting means better swordsmsn. And now Zoro has to re-learn the lesson.

Yet in the end, the one and only "great cutting feat" Set up for Zoro since punk hazard is just cutting fire. An entirely skill based ability. Because that's all he needs. He stopped caring about bigger harder cuts a very long time ago.

That's why him cutting a mountain wasn't even an achievement in itself in dressrosa. Like cutting the mountain wasn't a finishing move pulled out at desperation like the Daz bones fight. It was a stepping stone because he still needed to actually beat Pica. Because winning the fight is whats makes him better.

If you read all this then thanks

I never brought it back to Zoro, Lol. I said what is going to be the next great cutting feat for a swordsman, never mentioned Zoro. So apologies that I won't be responding to everything you typed out about him.

I personally find it pretty lackluster that cutting Kaido would be the greatest cutting feat in terms of hard substance a Swordsman can achieve, when so many people are capable of doing it.

And it doesn't have to be explicitly stated that Law's Devil Fruit can bypass durability when it's already explained to us that he has complete control over everything within his room. We can't put self imposed limits on that, only Oda can.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

You mean other people can name Mihawk's abilities for him?

And then those people can power scale mihawk's ability against the rest of the verse?

Those people know Mihawk's slash was stronger than Big mom's Elbaf spear?



So we know Wano artisans can cut Diamond then right? Normal artisans. Not even warriors. Normal artisans can cut things as hard as diamond then right? That's how they shape Seastone down into nails.

BTW we also saw Law cut Seastone in Punk hazard. In case you forgot that.

And Poneglyphs are harder because they have been stated to be INDESTRUCTIBLE. Also yes, there are very many reasons why people like the world government would want to destroy Poneglyphs. And yes, the Kozuki are the only ones who knew how to destroy them

So we have Poneglypha that are harder than diamond and yet they are also breakable by whatever the Kozuki could do.

Not to mention Barto's barriers being the hardest things in the universe yada yada.

Post automatically merged: Sep 27, 2020

@BigMemeWasHere

Because law cut seastone in Punk hazard and Law CANNOT cut Kaido

Law didn't cut seastone in PH

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I never brought it back to Zoro, Lol. I said what is going to be the next great cutting feat for a swordsman, never mentioned Zoro. So apologies that I won't be responding to everything you typed out about him.

I personally find it pretty lackluster that cutting Kaido would be the greatest cutting feat in terms of hard substance a Swordsman can achieve, when so many people are capable of doing it.

And it doesn't have to be explicitly stated that Law's Devil Fruit can bypass durability when it's already explained to us that he has complete control over everything within his room. We can't put self imposed limits on that, only Oda can.

Okay but I hope you now understand why Daz mentioning Diamond is not foreshodowing for anything.

In fact I hope you understand why "great cutting feat" isn't really a big deal at all for true swordsmen.

I was explaining Zoro but this applies to all swordsmen. Mihawk or Tashigi or whoever do not measure their swordsmanship on "great cutting feat". And if there's a swordsman who does then they ate most probably around Alabasta Zoro level meaning they are entirely irrelevant to the current series.

The story has never demanded a "great cutting feat" of swordsmen and even cutting kaido is an achievent for the scabbards as a group. Not All swordsmen.

It's not like every time Luffy beats anyone he's made a "great punching feat" for all brawlers in the series.

You can extrapolate if you want for the sake of power scaling but that doesn't mean it's an actual thing in the story.

Zoro and by extension all swordsmen don't measure themselves by "great cutting feats". It's power scalers who do that. In the story, neither Zoro nor Mihawk care about cutting diamond. That's a fan made expectation.

Post automatically merged: Sep 27, 2020

Law didn't cut seastone in PH

@BigMemeWasHere

When Luffy was in seastone cuffs, law cut them.

It's funny because Oda could've just had law teleport the cuffs off. We had seen in that arc that Law could teleport all the transponder snails that were in everyone's pockets out.

So Law can teleport small things on people's bodies without teleporting the full person. Oda could've had law teleport the cuffs off Luffy.

But no, there's an exact panel of Law cutting seastone

 

[Exotermik]

Okay but I hope you now understand why Daz mentioning Diamond is not foreshodowing for anything.

In fact I hope you understand why "great cutting feat" isn't really a big deal at all for true swordsmen.

I was explaining Zoro but this applies to all swordsmen. Mihawk or Tashigi or whoever do not measure their swordsmanship on "great cutting feat". And if there's a swordsman who does then they ate most probably around Alabasta Zoro level meaning they are entirely irrelevant to the current series.

The story has never demanded a "great cutting feat" of swordsmen and even cutting kaido is an achievent for the scabbards as a group. Not All swordsmen.

It's not like every time Luffy beats anyone he's made a "great punching feat" for all brawlers in the series.

You can extrapolate if you want for the sake of power scaling but that doesn't mean it's an actual thing in the story.

Zoro and by extension all swordsmen don't measure themselves by "great cutting feats". It's power scalers who do that. In the story, neither Zoro nor Mihawk care about cutting diamond. That's a fan made expectation.

Post automatically merged: Sep 27, 2020

@BigMemeWasHere

When Luffy was in seastone cuffs, law cut them.

It's funny because Oda could've just had law teleport the cuffs off. We had seen in that arc that Law could teleport all the transponder snails that were in everyone's pockets out.

So Law can teleport small things on people's bodies without teleporting the full person. Oda could've had law teleport the cuffs off Luffy.

But no, there's an exact panel of Law cutting seastone

he also cutted the marine warship wich has seastone in the bottom

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

I mean the same thing you're saying about Seastone literally applies to the poneglyphs, as the Kozuki clan can carve and shape those also. So it looks like Diamond, Seastone, and Poneglyphs are all off the table, right? So what's going to be the next great cutting feat for a Swordsman, or does it stop at Kaido?

And Law's devil fruit ability bypasses durability, so he's not the best candidate to use in this situation.

I thought gamma knife is not from his DF?