Rules Endeavor (MHA) and Judge (One piece) : Discussion thread

[RayanOO]

Here I wanted to talk about Endeavor from MHA and Judge. This is not a fight ! Just a discussion thread.

Both are similar.

They both want to create the perfect child/children to realize their dream (beating AM/rulling North Blue). They try to mix genetic to do that. Endy to create the half hot half cold, Judge with DNA and emotions removal.

They both behaved like bitch to their children, and didn't care for the "lesser" children/child.

Only gave "attention" to the "worthwhile" children/child.

It didn't end well for both their wives : one in PH and the other dead.

They both are chief/important. Judge is rulling Germa, and Endy is the number 2 hero.

And to be fair they did look a bit alike. Tall, imposing, strong, smart, knowing their craft etc.

Both have and will see redemption. Endy already try to change, to atone his sins. While Judge is likely only in the beginning of his own redemption path. WCI already changed things a bit when Sanji saved him etc.

What do you think about them ? Their similarities ?

Who is the worst father of the two ? The worst for his whole family ?

Who do you think is the best written character ?

Who is the most handsome ?

Who was the closest to realize his dream ?

Do you think if they had met in their respective universe they would have been friends ? allies ?

What do you think about Sanji and Dabi relationship to their father ? or Shoto and Sanji ?

You can talk about anything about them !

Lets go !

Tags : I will tag MHA fans and obviously anyone interested is welcomed !

Tags : @playa4321 @Hiragaro @TheAncientCenturion @Admiral Lee Hung @Albino 👑 @Redx @Ravagerblade @Zowo @Ice devil slayer @Monkey D Theories @Dark Admiral @Dark Hound @DarkWitch @JioFreed @Yo Tan Wa @Fist_Of_Love @Arara @Akai2 @Zoro D Goat @Finalbeta @Hawks @Flower @Bullet @Dragomir @Guan Yu @Queen @PirateKingDrew @SethRollins @Marimo_420 @Ryuarashi @Yere93 @Kucing Pencuri @Yukihime @Sentinel @mugiwalaw @Constantine @HA001 @BangMi @DruMzTV @Sword God Ryuma @Camie @WesMidnight @symbiote @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @Gol D. Roger @Fujishiro @Nibel @Ali @Jo_Ndule @Yoru @Kiwipom @Baba @Master OF Haki @ivaannom @LuffyMazino @ReggieZoldyck21 @LoneEspada @God_Aizen

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I’ll reply when I’m on break. Good thread!

 

[Dragomir]

Nice thread Rayan! Two interesting characters to compare.

What do you think about them ? Their similarities ?

I believe that Endeavor is a much much better character than Judge. One reason for this is that he was there at the beginning to the story and we were allowed to see his development progress in a smooth and satisfying manner. It's still not fully complete, but once it is, it's going to incredibly satisfying to see. His redemption arc is damn near perfect.

Judge? Not so much. He got introduced very late in the story, he and his family barely getting the focus that they should have gotten in Whole Cake Island, and now he's gone never to be seen again until likely the last arc of the series. The most development we got to see out of him, was when he cried at the Tea Party. How his opinion has changed on Sanji? We don't know. Based on how the other Vinsmoke siblings treated Sanji at the end, he's probably gonna continue seeing him as a failure. His redemption arc is non-existent.

Who is the worst father of the two ? The worst for his whole family ?

Judge. He completely change his kids' physical attributes and their mental state for the simple sake of creating super soldiers. His kids can hardly think for themselves and escape the borderline dictatorship he imposed on them. With Endeavor, he's actually trying to spend time with his family now and slowly but surely redeem himself.

Who do you think is the best written character ?

Endeavor and it's not even close.

Who is the most handsome ?

Endeavor. His scar looks hot as hell on him.

Who was the closest to realize his dream ?

Endeavor. I have a hard time seeing Judge even returning to the story. Won't lie, I don't even remember what Judge's dream was but if he's to achieve it, it's gonna be a rushed process. Endeavor's path is smooth and streamlined.

Do you think if they had met in their respective universe they would have been friends ? allies ?

Depends. Endeavor pre-development and Judge could be friends. But current Endeavor most definitely wouldn't. Though, I could see him sympathize with him a little.

What do you think about Sanji and Dabi relationship to their father ? or Shoto and Sanji ?

I love Shoto and Endeavor's relationship! It's wholesome seeing how Shoto went from hating his father, refusing to use his fire powers as a result, to cheering him on when he saw him fighting on TV. Sanji still hates his entire family. It makes sense as to why he does, but that's about it and it isn't gonna change. There's nothing to look forward to.

Also, it's been finally revealed that Dabi is Endeavor's son? I gotta get caught up quickly.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

What do you think about them ? Their similarities ?

Endeavor is a very inspiring character for me. He’s someone who made a handful of awful decisions and led to horrible mistakes but he’s owning up to it. He realized the goal he wanted wasn’t worth the strife, the ends did not justify the means. And now he’s hoping to be the #1 Hero who can be seen as this shining beacon.

judge is a scientific warlord who hasn’t had any real development or attachment towards his family beyond using them without remorse.

Who is the worst father of the two ? The worst for his whole family ?

Judge is. He’s willing to sell out Sanji for power, genetically engineers his children to be tools of warfare without emotions. Endeavor seems distant and ignorant more than openly malicious. Self absorbed and egotistical, but that’s it.

Who do you think is the best written character ?

Endeavor is a complex character who a mountain of flaws and the ability to see/ work past them. Judge only ever cried to give him some development.

Who is the most handsome ?

Early Endeavor looked ugly and kinda fat, but post scar, Hori has been drawing him a lot more attractively. Judge has a butt chin.

Who was the closest to realize his dream ?

Endeavors dream of surpassing All Might is closer. He took routes to accomplish it. Judge almost died at the first step of conquering the North Blue.

Do you think if they had met in their respective universe they would have been friends ? allies ?

There’d be some mutual respect for their ambitions but that’s where it ends. Endeavor isn’t that much of an asshole and is a hero. He sacrifices his life for people, has the highest record of heroic acts ever accomplished, etc. judge is a warlord who profiteers off chaos.

What do you think about Sanji and Dabi relationship to their father ? or Shoto and Sanji ?

Sanji would sympathize with both and probably like Shoto more. Dabi is insane and hearing that Dabi wants to kill his family...? Killing innocents? Has a complete disregard for a friends death...?

Sanji and Dabi would not get along.

 

[Seth]

What do you think about them? Their similarities?

I think they are both interesting for a reader in some way despite being dog shit of human beings.

Similarities? They both had an obsession over making their kids their best creations/tools.

They were both abusive and it seems like in both cases Moms were this ray of hope for their children.

They are going to be redeemed in some way, shape, or form although you can't hide from your past, and even if they change 360 and open a foundation they will never be forgotten.

Mental scars can be more painful than scars on the body.

Who is the worst father of the two? The worst for his whole family?

They are both pieces of shit in that manner. But I think a lot of people will give the edge to Endy because we don't know if Judge abused Sora physically.

Who do you think is the best-written character?

Endy without a doubt at the moment. His redemption arc is one of the best shits that happened in Shonen Jump in recent years because it's not filled with typical redemption arc where piece of shit strives to become a good person and he's praised for every good step that he makes. Endy's path is filled with pain and struggle. For now, there are no signs of Judge changing so no doubt about Endy being a winner here.

Who is the most handsome ?

Endy. No homo.

Who was the closest to realize his dream ?

I think both since Judge got most of his kids with powers and they are even stronger with the Raid suits whereas Endy finally got to have someone like Shoto + Dabi has stronger flames than Endy himself.

Do you think if they had met in their respective universe they would have been friends? allies?

Oh yeah, definitely. Judge has the knowledge and resources to help someone like Endy. There is a possibility that he could help Dabi before the tragedy and then Shoto which would lead to the Todoroki family becoming fucked up somewhat similar to what Dark Triad is ( from Black Clover who read it he/she will understand ).

What do you think about Sanji and Dabi's relationship with their fathers? or Shoto and Sanji?

Dabi is keen to destroy his father since he had no one to take care of him from the mentality standpoint.

Sanji closed his past during WCI although the burden of being Judge's son will follow him up until Vegapunk reveal.

Shoto is between Dabi and Sanji since he's the most obvious pick if we are talking about which of these characters would be most likely to try and get in touch with his family for the sake of not ruining the family bonds.

I think Endy is one of the most well-written characters in My Hero Academia and trust it is hard in this series for me since most of the characters are dull or single minded about stuff.

I wonder if Judge will get a redemption arc although I don't think so.

Endy #2 and Judge Top 5!!!


Thanks for the tag @RayanOO very interested topic.

 

[Marimo_420]

.

For later.

 

[God_Aizen]

What do you think about them ? Their similarities ?

Well both of them are assholes

Who is the worst father of the two ? The worst for his whole family ?

Endeavor, because he was a hero and hurting all of his family especially Dabi, Shoto and his wife. He didn't have interest in his other children like Natsu or his sister. Judge on the other hand was a bad father too. But he at least wanted that all of his kids get more power. Well his actions against Sanji who was a failure in his eyes was disgusting but even then for me at least was Endeavour the worse dad.

Who do you think is the best written character ?

Endeavour again, this time because he learnd about his failures and wanted more time with his family, he was more gentle to them, and to his fans too. He wanted to become a better person. He got development.
Judge was an antagonist like most were in One Piece. Maybe he will return and help the strawhats but he isn't well written, and I don't think that Oda will give him a good development....

Who is the most handsome ?

I don't know if handsome is the correct word, but I think Endeavour has a better design overall.

Who was the closest to realize his dream ?

No one. Both failed. Don't see that one of them was closer to his dreams tbh.

Do you think if they had met in their respective universe they would have been friends ? allies ?

Don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Wouldn't be suprised if Endeavour would arrest him.

What do you think about Sanji and Dabi relationship to their father ? or Shoto and Sanji ?

Dabis realationship is of course worse than that of Sanji to his dad. Shoto too. . Sanji had a "good" life. He had his sister who helped him. His mother loved him. His father did not put any pressure on him, after Sanji escaped, plus he had Zeff so yeah. For me Dabi and Shoto have/had a worse realationship with their father.

And I am really interest in the conlict between Dabi, Endeavour and Shoto. Sanjis family issues didn't interest me.

 

[Akai2]

Great idea.

Everything I wanted to say was already said tho lol

 

[Dark Admiral]

Endeavour is an overall a better character as he is redeeming himself. Judge on the other hand was still looking down on Sanji even after all that has happened.

 

[Chrono]

What do you think about them ? Their similarities ?

Who is the worst father of the two ? The worst for his whole family ?

Who do you think is the best written character ?

Who is the most handsome ?

Who was the closest to realize his dream ?

Do you think if they had met in their respective universe they would have been friends ? allies ?

What do you think about Sanji and Dabi relationship to their father ? or Shoto and Sanji ?

You can talk about anything about them !

- Theyre both really similar I guess. Endevour is more cooler obviously. And its nice hes trying to change. I think Judge will in the future as well.

- Judge is worst by far. Weve seen what Endevour does to failed children....he just separates them from the special one. Whilst Judge locks them and wished to be able to kill them if he had the balls. Judge is also pretty damn happy that he isnt known as Sanji's father. I dont think its possible to think Endevour is worst.

- Endevour...due to far more panel time and character focus. They both seemed to be heading in the same direction, but Endevour has the luck of being in the series from the start and constantly remaining relevant

- Endevour....100%

- I mean Endevour achieved his dream, and it brought him no happiness at all. His new dream was to be accepted by his family. However Judge's dream of accquring the North Blue isnt interlocked with the treatment of Sanji.

- They'd hate each other

- Each 3 characters interact in different ways to the treatment they recieved from their fathers. Dabi became crazy, Shoto became cold, and Sanji became...well....normal. This is due to Sanji having Zeff in his life, but even before Zeff. Whilst Sanji was with the chefs, he didnt seem particularly distraught. Only seemed cocky and arrogant....probably due to his upbringing. Due to each of them being raised in different ways, I dont think we can really compare them.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I think endeavor is a much better version of Judge. This is partially because MHA has a smaller cast and hence Endeavor gets a lot more attention than Judge, but its also due to the fact that Judge just seems cartoonish.

Judge imprisoning Sanji because he was weak and literally hating him for being a normal human being makes him seem like a deranged person. Wasn't Judge himself a normal human being? Wasn't his wife a normal human being?

I don't understand how Sanji being a normal person makes him such a failure that Judge wanted him imprisoned or dead. The man was the king of a powerful technological empire. Are you telling me that Judge couldn't have just powered up Sanji with tech or fed him a devil fruit?

This just seems stupid. Especially since he hated Sanji despite sanji coming back stronger and being capable of beating Yonji without a raid suit. The whole thing about him disliking Sanji's emotions is also moronic, especially since Reiju had emotions as well.

Post automatically merged: Nov 14, 2020

God. If Judge didn't think Sanji would be a warrior, he could at least teach him all the science knowledge he has. None of the other vinsmokes seem to be scientist so he could have made Sanji into a doctor or something that would inherit Germa's scientific knowledge.

There was actually no reason for Judge to do what he did apart from him being a psychopath

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

What do you think about them ? Their similarities ?

Tbh I never really thought of them as similar until now lol. Well, Enji dunks all over Jajji.

Enji is the best MHA character for me and one of my all time favs. I never thought I’d see a Shonen author pull off an abuser in a realistic way, and then later redeem him to the point that I actually forgave his abuse.

Jajji is also an abuser but he’s one dimensional trash, unredeemed, and a little bitch for the record lol.

Who is the worst father of the two ? The worst for his whole family ?

Judge is the worse father. Endeavor is currently trying to atone for his past mistakes and trying to be a good father. Judge is as shit now as he was when he called his eyes out to Big Mom.

Who do you think is the best written character ?

Lol.

Who is the most handsome ?

Skipped!

Who was the closest to realize his dream ?

Well we know virtually nothing about Judge’s desire to conquer the North Blue. At least Endeavor successfully created the quirk he was trying to create in Shoto lol.

Do you think if they had met in their respective universe they would have been friends ? allies ?

Neither of them seems like the friend making type.

What do you think about Sanji and Dabi relationship to their father ? or Shoto and Sanji ?

Honestly I think Horikoshi waited too long to introduce Dabi into the story as Toya. Horikoshi spent all this time trying to make us forgive Endeavor, and now he’s trying to rehash the abuse story that Hori has tried to make us forgive already.

This is probably intentional but I’m not really sure how I’m supposed to take Toya seriously now.

 

[RayanOO]

I think if Endeavor had met Judge he would have asked him to use his tech on his children to give them ice powers or fire powers even if they would lost their emotions.

He would have regreted it but at some point in his history (Shoto birth etc) he would have done it.

 

[Flower]

I think if Endeavor had met Judge he would have asked him to use his tech on his children to give them ice powers or fire powers even if they would lost their emotions.

He would have regreted it but at some point in his history (Shoto birth etc) he would have done it.

I actually disagree with that. We know genetic enhancement does exist in the MHA verse and yet we never saw Endeavor actually going that route. Although both are somewhat of drill instructors, so I can see them getting along on this part.

 

[RayanOO]

I actually disagree with that. We know genetic enhancement does exist in the MHA verse and yet we never saw Endeavor actually going that route. Although both are somewhat of drill instructors, so I can see them getting along on this part.

There are some techs in MHA world that allow to boost quirk : Trigger for exemple.

But Endeavor is not stupid, he knows that this is only short time use and that can have bad effects on people if someone takes too much.

About genetic quirk manipulation for now only Ujiko seems to know how to put take away someone else quirk and give it to someone. I don't think those types of research are known.

If Endeavor had met Ujiko (thinking he was nice) and Ujiko told him that he could put an ice quirk in Touya or Natsu without that much danger I think he would have thought about it.

But we know with Judge method, there is no risk for life but the subject become emotionless. After Touya death or if Shoto hadn't work I can see Endeavor doing something like that.