Chapter Discussion Is Killer underrated?

Killer’s nerf against Zoro was his weapons, not his vastly over exaggerated mental state. He’s shown to be upset and crying when he reunites with Kid, that doesn’t make him “mentally broken” anymore than... literally any of the other times we’ve seen people crying in this series. In the fight with Zoro Killer is fully capable of having a conversation and could tell when Zoro was not fighting seriously. He’s not suffering any mental trauma there.
 
Killer’s nerf against Zoro was his weapons, not his vastly over exaggerated mental state. He’s shown to be upset and crying when he reunites with Kid, that doesn’t make him “mentally broken” anymore than... literally any of the other times we’ve seen people crying in this series. In the fight with Zoro Killer is fully capable of having a conversation and could tell when Zoro was not fighting seriously. He’s not suffering any mental trauma there.
You are ignoring the physical injuries and the fact that the same poison Zoro assumed, Killer assumed in major quantities.
And don'act like if the wapons weren't that much of a nerf :seriously:
 
Do people really think a Killer with his will pretty much broken, tortured, and his usual unique weapons gone is not nerfed lol. Killer >> Kamazou. The upcoming fight will make this evident. Also don’t underestimate how much being back fighting with his captain will help him mentally.
 
First Killer has his own and usual weapons now, the ones that are the best for him and his fighting style. This is a good difference already.

Then Kamazou was messed up mentally, his face wide open for everyone to see his laugh, not knowing his friends and captain fate and forced to work for Orochi : messed up mental state.
Now Killer is with his crew and captain again, they don't care at all about Killer laugh and still accept and love him so this likely ease Killer's mind a lot, and Killer put his helmet again. And now Killer fights for his captain and for his own believes. This is completely different from Kamazou.

If Killer manages to accept and deal with his laugh and mental issue, I can bet all of this will make him stronger.
The whole « Killer was fucked up mentally » is factually false.
We know for a fact that Killer works for Orochi to free Kidd.
We know for a fact that he willingly ate the smile.
We know for a fact that he is still laughing.

At no point in the story it has been said to us that Killer was « massively nerfed » during his fight against Zoro. It is just a narrative that was push by the anti-Zoro squad.

Except for the weapon there is no difference between Kamazo and Killer. It is just time to accept that :
1/ Killer was as nerf as Zoro
2/ Kamazo is not the fodder some people wanted him to be.
 
Killer’s nerf against Zoro was his weapons, not his vastly over exaggerated mental state. He’s shown to be upset and crying when he reunites with Kid, that doesn’t make him “mentally broken” anymore than... literally any of the other times we’ve seen people crying in this series. In the fight with Zoro Killer is fully capable of having a conversation and could tell when Zoro was not fighting seriously. He’s not suffering any mental trauma there.
Yeah you are right, in a manga in which your mental fortitude is put above everything else as merit in a fight, the dude who can´t control his mentality and feelings is not nerfed.
I doubt he could even bring out Haki, at least in that fight he did not use CoA, and i doubt anybody thinks Killer does not at least have Hardening.

I have no doubts Zoro would beat Killer, maybe even with same difficulty if he is serious (a Y1C should low to mid diff a Y4C-Y3C if there are no certain circumstances in regards to ability match-ups), and also the fact that Strawhats in general, and that includes Zoro, need the right circumstances to get fully serious, Zoro did not even have his bandana on, nevertheless to claim Killer was not significantly nerfed is nonsense.
 
You are ignoring the physical injuries and the fact that the same poison Zoro assumed, Killer assumed in major quantities.
And don'act like if the wapons weren't that much of a nerf :seriously:
My argument from months ago was that Killer was massively nerfed by having different weapons

He wasn't fighting to his full capabilities without his main weapons. Zoro with three random swords is weaker than Zoro with his actual swords, the same logic applies.

He was still strong though, Zoro told us that. And he wasn't some broken bubbling mess of a man at the time- he was still sharp enough combat wise to tell that Zoro wasn't taking it seriously at first, and was fairly lucid all in.

Zoro was also nerfed. Didn't have his third sword, had Gyukimaru throwing attacks at his back which is what led to the stab.

I'm also drawn to remember the Ryuma fight, where Oda said because of the similar nature of their swordsmanship and strength, a fight between the two would be short and end with the first real hit. Here we had a nerfed Killer and a nerfed Zoro land a hit on each other, and lo and behold, knock each other out.

It's also no coincidence that the fight happened at the same time that their two captains were competing against each other in Udon. I think that with hindsight, now we know Kamazou is Killer that Oda was drawing parallels there, especially as we now also have the two crews charging after Kaido together. Basically "yes, Luffy and Zoro's bounties have went over Kid and Killer's, but they are still rivals." For now, at least, I still think Oda will end up having Luffy and Zoro blow Kid and Killer out of the water.
Well, you know I agree that Killer'a mental state didn't detract from his combat ability in any way.

It's the weapons that are the huge nerf, and I don't think it's at all comparable to Zoro using different sword.

You've shown example of Zoro using other swords, and being fine with them. Okay, that's fair. But fundamentally, those swords are much, much closer to what Zoro is used to using than what Killer had to deal with. Zoro was using one handed swords, they had a hilt, a cross guard and a blade all roughly the same length. Using Zoro's fighting style with them wouldn't be optimal, but it wouldn't be a great change.

On the other hand, this

Is a completely different weapon to this in every respect


The two bear as much similarity to each other as Whitebeard's glaive does to Shusui. The long haft, in particular, completely changes the dynamics of fighting with it, and even the blades aren't all that similar, one being far more curved than the other. Killer is used to hitting people with the blade starting at a great curve just on the end of his fist. With the scythes, there's an added length of wood to manpuever before getting in the position of hitting his foe.

I do not believe, for a second, that if Zoro was in the same position as Killer, and fighting with three spears or three axes- or perhaps going to the Davy Back fight and Muutoryu Zoro- that anyone would be saying that wasn't anything but a massive nerf.


Also to add to what you've asked on my profile, when I say the Luffy/Zoro and Kid/Killer dynamic I'm not comparing Luffy to Zoro, and Kid to Killer. I'm saying that Oda has been comparing the relationships between the two captains and right hand men- the Luffy and Zoro relationship is comparable to the Kid and Killer relationship.
But there are no indications that Killer ate poison food- as he was working for Orochi in the Flower Capital he would have access to good food- or that he had any injuries.
 

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
What's the point of bringing Doffy in this :kaidowhat:

He didn't seem messed up to you? He's literally covered in bandages, what's that? The new fashion trend? :nicagesmile:
Kidd too who fought side by side with Killer was still bloody in Udon
The point is that Doflamingo is generally labeled as an YC3 guy post Gamma Knife and YC2 guy pre Gamma Knife.

The best case scenario for Killer could be a 0.5 difference here, this is why I think what truly counts here is the psychological difference.
 
And this is just a part of the answer

If that's not a broken man I don't know what to tell y'all
:luuh:
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The point is that Doflamingo is generally labeled as an YC3 guy post Gamma Knife and YC2 guy pre Gamma Knife.

The best case scenario for Killer could be a 0.5 difference here, this is why I think what truly counts here is the psychological difference.
Look at the narrative, not power levels only. Also this is your assumption
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
We know for a fact that Killer works for Orochi to free Kidd.
We know for a fact that he willingly ate the smile.
We know for a fact that he is still laughing.
In shonen everything is will related and mental state related. Someone who fights for his own believes and fights for his dream will always be stronger than someone who is forced to fight for someone he despises.
Killer fighting under Kid orders is stronger than Killer forced to fight under Orochi's orders.


Will is everything, this is not a surprise that COC the rarest and most terrifying power is will related.
 
That’s not a broken man. That is an upset man. There is a world of difference between the two.

This is a broken man

Nope, Kidd is upset, Killer is broken
He's laughing cause of the smile and crying at the same while his best friend reveals us that he also always hated his laugh. That's broken.
That's why I'm really happy that now he put his shit together and is going to show everybody who he is :kriwhat:
 
Nope, Kidd is upset, Killer is broken
He's laughing cause of the smile and crying at the same while his best friend reveals us that he also always hated his laugh. That's broken.
That's why I'm really happy that now he put his shit together and is going to show everybody who he is :kriwhat:
Kid is angry, Killer is upset. A person crying does not make them “broken”, ffs, everyone in One Piece cries at some point.

Also, that is Killer post-Zoro fight. It does not reflect his mental state during the Zoro fight itself. During the Zoro fight Killer had a purpose- he was fighting in order to free his crew from Orochi and Kaido. Showing him crying after he failed to do that and has seemingly doomed them to life in Kaido’s prisons does not mean he was in the same mental state in the Zoro fight.
 
So you are just ignoring the facts I brought to you :seriously:
It is not fact. You gloss over canon infos to put your narrative.

Killer worked for Orochi for weeks in the flower capital. His situation has nothing to do with Kidd’s. Being bandaged up does not mean that he was still suffering from any injuries.
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In shonen everything is will related and mental state related. Someone who fights for his own believes and fights for his dream will always be stronger than someone who is forced to fight for someone he despises.
Killer fighting under Kid orders is stronger than Killer forced to fight under Orochi's orders.


Will is everything, this is not a surprise that COC the rarest and most terrifying power is will related.
I agree will is everything.

That is why Killer fighting to free Kidd = Killer fighting alongside Kidd.
 
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