Character Discussion "SaNjI bEtRaYeD LuFfY"

Seth

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#41
WCI was shit because Sanji never got a solo fight. In terms of character, aside from the whole cooking morales inconsistency.....Sanji was pretty much solid. He had many cool moments and feats, and if he defeated Daifuku.....then WCI wouldve been perfect for him.
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Lured ?





Reread these 2 pages.

Nami literally says so that Sanji had no choice but to leave.....or else in a few days Sanji will get a Baratie, Kamabaka or SHs members head in a box. Sanji told them not to come. There was no luring.
yes he did lure luffy to Toto Land. Intentionally or not he did.

Luffy is the one to go after his crewmates we know this.

He chooses to go to Big Mom to marry Pudding for the sake of his crew but Luffy was on his way to ruin the wedding and get Sanji back and by the way pissing off Big Mom more and more to the point where s he decided to go to Onigashima.

They put the whole Kaido mission in danger.
 
#43
yes he did lure luffy to Toto Land. Intentionally or not he did.

Luffy is the one to go after his crewmates we know this.

He chooses to go to Big Mom to marry Pudding for the sake of his crew but Luffy was on his way to ruin the wedding and get Sanji back and by the way pissing off Big Mom more and more to the point where s he decided to go to Onigashima.

They put the whole Kaido mission in danger.
And why blame Luffy's retardism on Sanji. I dont think you understand what luring means. Since the word has negative connotations which imply Sanji purposely brought Luffy to WCI. Which he didnt. Sanji was forced to go there, just as much as Luffy went after his crewmate. Both Sanji and Luffy were lured to WCI by the Meme pirates, Luffy in a more indirect way.

Luffy wasnt on the way to ruin the Wedding. Only there to get the Sanji back. And the reason Big Mom's in Wano is all because of Luffy. Literally the only reason why she is after him and not Sanji.
 

Seth

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#45
You people don't understand one thing, WCI arc would have ended with Luffy and co escaping on the night before *Censored for the glory sake of Captain Kid* party/wedding without them planning for rescuing Germa 66.
This damn captain kidd is everywhere:milaugh:
 
#47
People justifying Sanjiยดs behavior with reasoning Sanji himself refuted when Robin essentially did the same.

Strawhats are small time pirates, should not stick their nose into big things.
Strawhats are small time pirates, and should not deal with Yonkous.


Robin not wanting to get saved due to saving the crew through her actions, Sanji not accepting that and claiming they would deal with the situation no matter what. And Buster Call was a similarly overpowered threat to them then as Yonkous are now.


Letยดs also pretend we did not have this scene of Usopp stating something he learned hard and something he regrets,


And underlines that no matter what, to always trust in Luffy, something he unfortunately was not able to do due to his own mental weakness and of the fear of being abandoned just like Merry was in his eyes for being useless.


Not to forget, at the beginning of train infiltration, we literally have a scene in which Sanji explicitly underlines that there is nothing in the world that would stop him from getting Robin back.




Letยดs pretend all this context of the crew does not exist, and everything Sanji did was "understandable", and after the timeskip was supposed to underline that every Strawhat, without any ounce of doubt, believes Luffy to become Pirate King and overcome any obstacle, and trained 2 years for Luffy to help him achieve that.
 
#50
I mean just imagine. You're Sanji, Chopper, Nami, or Brook. You just arrived on Zou thinking you're about to meet a bunch of people who you are very soon going to ally with. You step off the boat, and what you witness is a Country laid barren, with the inhabitants all on the verge of death. You and the team scramble to to run around and save as many people as you can, while fighting off an unknown enemy. Once things calm down a bit, you find out the harshly reality of what just happened. The subordinates of Yonko have just attacked Zou because Zou was hiding someone they thought was on the island. And entire Country almost wiped off the map in just 5 days.

Now you're Sanji and soon after you arrive, the subordinates of another Yonko crew show up, and demand you come with them to their Homeland. And they aren't giving you an option. They are telling you straight up how it is. Come with us, or everyone you knows dies. They are telling this to someone who just witnessed what a Yonko is capable of, and not to mention they are on the very same Island that another Yonko just destroyed, and if you don't leave with them right away, then another Yonko is going to send their full wrath to come collect you from that same Country.

This goes far beyond just "Wait and put your trust in Luffy." The threat is there, and is immediate. Action needs to be taken now, that is for the better benefit of everyone, not just the Straw Hats. The Minks have no fight left in them, and are all knocking on deaths door. The ultimatum is now. What was Sanji supposed to do? He had no clue when Luffy and the others were going to show up, but what he did know is that if he refused to go to WCI, he was bringing down the wrath of another Yonko on Zou. How people don't seem to understand this is beyond me.

Now to address the Sanji/Luffy situation on WCI. So you're Sanji, and you're thinking, maybe JUST maybe, Luffy would not be dumb enough to come all the way to WCI when the Straw Hats are about to go to war with another Yonko. An ignorant thought, but perhaps one of the other Straw Hats, or maybe even all of them will talk some sense into him, if he decides to to leave for WCI.

You're coming down the road, and who do you happen to spot? Luffy, who looks like he has just been put through the ringer, and his heavily beat up. You're with your family, who are already making comments on taking Luffy out, and you're balls deep inside of Big Mom's territory. What was he supposed to do? Welcome Luffy with open arms, give him a big old hug, and then team up with a heavily injured Luffy to take on the Vinsmokes? Ok, they'll probably win even with Luffy injured, but now, Luffy is even more injured, Sanji is injured, Nami is injured, and the rest of the Straw Hats are nowhere in sight. Guess what, they still can't leave the island. Now they have to find the rest of the Straw Hats. And bare in mind, Sanji doesn't know only a few of them came with Luffy, so in his mind, 6 crew members are missing.

So what's the best course of action here? Tell Luffy to leave, and he's not coming back? Like that'll work.... So Sanji made a snap decision. Attack Luffy and hope by some miracle, Luffy would take the hint, but even if he doesn't (Which Sanji knows he won't) it saves them from getting into a massive fight with the Vinsmokes, further injuring Luffy, and also injuring Nami. No matter what scenario you can try to come up with, Sanji did what he thought was best for the situation they were in.
 
#51
People justifying Sanjiยดs behavior with reasoning Sanji himself refuted when Robin essentially did the same.

Strawhats are small time pirates, should not stick their nose into big things.
Strawhats are small time pirates, and should not deal with Yonkous.


Robin not wanting to get saved due to saving the crew through her actions, Sanji not accepting that and claiming they would deal with the situation no matter what. And Buster Call was a similarly overpowered threat to them then as Yonkous are now.


Letยดs also pretend we did not have this scene of Usopp stating something he learned hard and something he regrets,


And underlines that no matter what, to always trust in Luffy, something he unfortunately was not able to do due to his own mental weakness and of the fear of being abandoned just like Merry was in his eyes for being useless.


Not to forget, at the beginning of train infiltration, we literally have a scene in which Sanji explicitly underlines that there is nothing in the world that would stop him from getting Robin back.




Letยดs pretend all this context of the crew does not exist, and everything Sanji did was "understandable", and after the timeskip was supposed to underline that every Strawhat, without any ounce of doubt, believes Luffy to become Pirate King and overcome any obstacle, and trained 2 years for Luffy to help him achieve that.
The SHs were in no way equipped to take on the Big Mom Pirates in WCI. They got destroyed and saved by Plot countless of times.

Again you cannot remotely compare the stakes of Sanji and Robin's situation even if the scenarios were similar. In Robin's case, they were up against a WG team which was around the same lvl as the SHs, with the SHs being the only people Robin is protecting. Not to forget the full crew was there.

Here Sanji is up against a Super Powered full Yonko crew, with half the crew, with the Baratie, Kamabaka and SHs all in danger. They have absoloutely no way of winning. And escaping would mean the deaths of people of Baratie and Kamabaka, and also immediate deaths of the SHs.

Of course with Oda's big pen of PLOT, he made all the threat dissappear as soon as Sanji changed his mind. But lets not forget that they werent there. Sanji's situation was far worse than Robin, since it was endangering people who had no idea they would be attacked or could defend themselves. Whereas Luffy and Co. were up against similar lvl people.

Robin herself says so.



Robin: "Dont forget, this isnt like before"
 
#54
No, they couldn't have found out because no one is guarding the coast or anything...and even if they found, it could have become very late by that time because they should have escaped with the help of fishmen pirates...
Big Mom literally found them in a second in the seducing forest. She could easily make Zeus Island sized or somethinng and search for them.
 
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