Character Discussion "SaNjI bEtRaYeD LuFfY"
- Thread starter Chrono
- Start date
Needed to be said yet this will inevitably cause a dumpster fire of takes from people who just don't get it
That's not even an issue Reiju told Sanji that the hostage thing was overseen by Germa. The wedding falling off made the whole Zeff situation irrelevant. Sanji already accepted the wedding and it fell through because Germa deferred no need to worry about Zeff
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That's not even an issue Reiju told Sanji that the hostage thing was overseen by Germa. The wedding falling off made the whole Zeff situation irrelevant. Sanji already accepted the wedding and it fell through because Germa deferred no need to worry about Zeff
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Luffy never held a grudge against Sanji.
He always saw through the charade. Luffy have a special relation with each of the people he chose to embark on this journey with him.
And some people hold on to grudges that the Captain of the ship doesnt.
These same people think they KNOW who SHOULD BE Luffy's First Mate, without even understanding Luffy himself first.
They just want their favorite character to be it, just because its the next most important position after the captain.
And you better believe most of them would rather Zoro be the captain himself.
That's what happens when you have a character that doesn't get reality checks often. All the SH's get some losses, but Zoro ir there being "badass", just feeding a delusional fanbase that thinks he is something more than he really is.
If the scaling of power goes from 1 to 10, Zoro fandom will not rest until they have proven Zoro is a 11.
He always saw through the charade. Luffy have a special relation with each of the people he chose to embark on this journey with him.
And some people hold on to grudges that the Captain of the ship doesnt.
These same people think they KNOW who SHOULD BE Luffy's First Mate, without even understanding Luffy himself first.
They just want their favorite character to be it, just because its the next most important position after the captain.
And you better believe most of them would rather Zoro be the captain himself.
That's what happens when you have a character that doesn't get reality checks often. All the SH's get some losses, but Zoro ir there being "badass", just feeding a delusional fanbase that thinks he is something more than he really is.
If the scaling of power goes from 1 to 10, Zoro fandom will not rest until they have proven Zoro is a 11.
Like I said, she could still easily find them at sea. Hell she got to the Vins and Fishmen Pirates in a few minutes and she was on a whole other island. And it takes them a day to get out of her territory. Shed of found them and killed them at sea. Only way to survive Big Mom was to make her retarded and food crazy, then distract her with cake.
There are those things in the ocean that track ships' movement around Big Mom territory.
She would definitely know where they were and could pursue.
Big Mom is also said to have a great information system. If BB found out what was happening in Wano, pretty reasonable to assume she also would know it.
She would definitely know where they were and could pursue.
Big Mom is also said to have a great information system. If BB found out what was happening in Wano, pretty reasonable to assume she also would know it.
That plot was super shitty for me.... like I would expect such things before timeskip like with Robin....I mean we already had robins plot which showed but still had this not believing luffy and all, trying to save them etc, we had the timeskip, and sanji is supposed to be one of the oldest member. The whole scene when he was "acting to hate luffy" made me 
and just made sanji's character depressing for me. I don't have to put myself in sanjis shoes for this... it was not something expected from sanji even with the circumstances.
But get over WCI... we are already at the end of Wano.
and just made sanji's character depressing for me. I don't have to put myself in sanjis shoes for this... it was not something expected from sanji even with the circumstances.But get over WCI... we are already at the end of Wano.
Enies Lobby needed them to fight since Robin was already there, Sanji chose himself to go to WCI, something, if he waited for the other Strawhats to arrive, would not be necessary.
Trick the stupid clumsy pseudo queen. It is a significant journey between WCI and wherever Sanji was supposed to be (they did not know where), also literally missed he claimed he did not find him or let them escape.
At worst he would be punished.
Yeah you wish to believe that to justify it, they were not. Compare an unknown force, possibly an Admiral waiting for them, 5 Vice Admirals, and CP9, it´s bonkers to argue this was not completely out of their reach, whereas they did well vs Yonkou crew.
Yeah Sanji would die, the kindhearted Sanji who pisses on anyone, right? Stop this shit.
The excuse people like you always have is plot, but never look at the implications.
The Strawhats literally made the entire world their enemy in Enies Lobby, entire world > Yonkou.
Similarly, i can say plot made sure nothing happened after Enies Lobby to both Strawhats and their loved ones, because we could not be distracted, but the implications in W7 mentioned, and even Spandam mentioning them in Enies Lobby, is make the world your enemy, you all die.
Go reread W7 and Enies Lobby instead of making excuses for Sanji for doing the exact thing he did not accept and tolerate for Robin.
Trick the stupid clumsy pseudo queen. It is a significant journey between WCI and wherever Sanji was supposed to be (they did not know where), also literally missed he claimed he did not find him or let them escape.
At worst he would be punished.
Yeah you wish to believe that to justify it, they were not. Compare an unknown force, possibly an Admiral waiting for them, 5 Vice Admirals, and CP9, it´s bonkers to argue this was not completely out of their reach, whereas they did well vs Yonkou crew.
Yeah Sanji would die, the kindhearted Sanji who pisses on anyone, right? Stop this shit.
The excuse people like you always have is plot, but never look at the implications.
The Strawhats literally made the entire world their enemy in Enies Lobby, entire world > Yonkou.
Similarly, i can say plot made sure nothing happened after Enies Lobby to both Strawhats and their loved ones, because we could not be distracted, but the implications in W7 mentioned, and even Spandam mentioning them in Enies Lobby, is make the world your enemy, you all die.
Go reread W7 and Enies Lobby instead of making excuses for Sanji for doing the exact thing he did not accept and tolerate for Robin.
"possibly one admiral, 5 vice-admirals and cp9" what the fuck are you talking about?
are you actually talking about the Buster Call?
Only reason Buster Call happened was because Spandam missclicked. ROFL.
And ok. What were the implications of the declaration of war to the world?
Thriller Bark? happened by chance.
Sabaody? Happened because Luffy punched a tenryuubitu.
Amazon Lily? no.
Impel down? Ace.
Marineford? Ace.
what exactly were the implications of "challenging the world"?
Buddy, Luffy is a pirate. He had even beaten a Shichibukai already. He ALREADY was challenging the world. It was just a scene to make it more emotional for Robin, who had "the entire world against her". It's more symbolic than practical.
What kind of cheesy point are you trying to make with this bs?
Also, lets talk about Sabaody, shall we? A moment of despair to the ENTIRE crew, when they were overwhelmed by foes they were unprepared for. You really think they can afford to underestimate enemies again after that? Sure it looks all sunshine and rainbow when they are clowning Big Mom or "cutting Kaido", but if something like that happened once, it can happen again. They can get rekt again if they underestimate their opponents, and there wont be good guy Kuma to save their asses. Since they dont know the existence of Oda as pulling saviors, they cant count on it.
Again, you are using information that the audience has, but the characters dont. You analyze characters decision using what YOU know about the situation. Not what the character knows. You are simply UNABLE to put yourself in the character position and try to understand his reasoning.
are you actually talking about the Buster Call?
Only reason Buster Call happened was because Spandam missclicked. ROFL.
And ok. What were the implications of the declaration of war to the world?
Thriller Bark? happened by chance.
Sabaody? Happened because Luffy punched a tenryuubitu.
Amazon Lily? no.
Impel down? Ace.
Marineford? Ace.
what exactly were the implications of "challenging the world"?
Buddy, Luffy is a pirate. He had even beaten a Shichibukai already. He ALREADY was challenging the world. It was just a scene to make it more emotional for Robin, who had "the entire world against her". It's more symbolic than practical.
What kind of cheesy point are you trying to make with this bs?
Also, lets talk about Sabaody, shall we? A moment of despair to the ENTIRE crew, when they were overwhelmed by foes they were unprepared for. You really think they can afford to underestimate enemies again after that? Sure it looks all sunshine and rainbow when they are clowning Big Mom or "cutting Kaido", but if something like that happened once, it can happen again. They can get rekt again if they underestimate their opponents, and there wont be good guy Kuma to save their asses. Since they dont know the existence of Oda as pulling saviors, they cant count on it.
Again, you are using information that the audience has, but the characters dont. You analyze characters decision using what YOU know about the situation. Not what the character knows. You are simply UNABLE to put yourself in the character position and try to understand his reasoning.
If you do not know the story, stop trying to sound smart.
The Strawhats were threatened with the Buster Call to make Robin obey them, if she does not listen, Buster Call on the Strawhats.
In addition, you entered one of the three main government facilities without knowing what kind of forces there are at all.
Aokiji literally was there as well, since he popped up in Enies Lobby.
A Buster Call was vastly superior to the Strawhats, Sanji´s answer, we deal with it.
And Robin at least had the excuse of being traumatized by the events in Ohara, coupled with 20 years of people betraying her over and over, so that was her biggest fear.
The Strawhats were threatened with the Buster Call to make Robin obey them, if she does not listen, Buster Call on the Strawhats.
In addition, you entered one of the three main government facilities without knowing what kind of forces there are at all.
Aokiji literally was there as well, since he popped up in Enies Lobby.
A Buster Call was vastly superior to the Strawhats, Sanji´s answer, we deal with it.
And Robin at least had the excuse of being traumatized by the events in Ohara, coupled with 20 years of people betraying her over and over, so that was her biggest fear.
Again, if Sanji waited..... Kamabaka and Baratie would be attacked in a few days. Pekoms says that Sanji in a few days would get a head of loved one in a box if he didnt go. With Nami then saying it made sense that Sanji had no option but to leave. Stop being ignorant Oda made clear as day that Sanji had to leave with them immediately.
Yh but the Queen Mama chanter had a headstart, how tf would Pekoms ever catch up to it. And how would that help Sanji in anyway. I thought youd come up with a way of Pekoms persuading Big Mom to not come after Sanji, but you do realise your dumb plan will have Big Mom go after Baratie and Kamabaka. There are already witnesses like Capone whos seen everything. Good luck to Pekoms trying to lie.
They did well in both scenarios because of plot. Take away plot, and SHs wouldve been dead multiple times in WCI. They were constantly up against opponents they couldnt handle at all. However in Ennies Lobby's case, the so called Buster Call never even came close to them.
Fine, lets compare the 2 situations. Even if we were to say the threat lvl was relatively same, you would also need to take into account that Ennies \lobby, had the full crew wanting to fight to keep Robin in the crew. Whereas WCI, only has half the crew not wanting to fight and just wanting to escape. The SHs had no interest in properly fighting Big Mom's crew yet, as they havent prepared for it yet. However you expect them to properly engage.
And yes Sanji's character is highly important whether you like it or not. Being pissed that Sanji isnt acting like Ennie Lobby Sanji, is retarded since at that point Robin was the one in danger not him. Sanji is a self sacrificial person, most SHs are.....he would obviously act different for another person being danger.
What Sanji's decision in WCI had only one person who was getting in danger, and that was only himself. For sacrificing himself, he was protecting the SHs, Baratie and Kamabaka. Whereas for Robin sacrificing herself, she was only protecting the SHs. The entire point of Sanji doing everything in WCI was because Zeff and the Baratie were constantly being threatened. FFS, he even tried to fight back until the Vins kept on bringing up Zeff potentially getting killed.
Now lets say Post Timeskip Robin was put in Sanji's position. Im betting you she puts past all her development of trusting in Luffy, if Ohara ( if it was still alive) was in danger. Shed comply and try to sacrifice herself again.
So dont go around trying to compare situations, Sanji was in a far worse position because the lives of innocent people were on the line. Whereas for Robin, she just has to accept help from people who are already fighitng for her.
Why tf did Zoro betray Sanji
Yh but the Queen Mama chanter had a headstart, how tf would Pekoms ever catch up to it. And how would that help Sanji in anyway. I thought youd come up with a way of Pekoms persuading Big Mom to not come after Sanji, but you do realise your dumb plan will have Big Mom go after Baratie and Kamabaka. There are already witnesses like Capone whos seen everything. Good luck to Pekoms trying to lie.
They did well in both scenarios because of plot. Take away plot, and SHs wouldve been dead multiple times in WCI. They were constantly up against opponents they couldnt handle at all. However in Ennies Lobby's case, the so called Buster Call never even came close to them.
Fine, lets compare the 2 situations. Even if we were to say the threat lvl was relatively same, you would also need to take into account that Ennies \lobby, had the full crew wanting to fight to keep Robin in the crew. Whereas WCI, only has half the crew not wanting to fight and just wanting to escape. The SHs had no interest in properly fighting Big Mom's crew yet, as they havent prepared for it yet. However you expect them to properly engage.
And yes Sanji's character is highly important whether you like it or not. Being pissed that Sanji isnt acting like Ennie Lobby Sanji, is retarded since at that point Robin was the one in danger not him. Sanji is a self sacrificial person, most SHs are.....he would obviously act different for another person being danger.
What Sanji's decision in WCI had only one person who was getting in danger, and that was only himself. For sacrificing himself, he was protecting the SHs, Baratie and Kamabaka. Whereas for Robin sacrificing herself, she was only protecting the SHs. The entire point of Sanji doing everything in WCI was because Zeff and the Baratie were constantly being threatened. FFS, he even tried to fight back until the Vins kept on bringing up Zeff potentially getting killed.
Now lets say Post Timeskip Robin was put in Sanji's position. Im betting you she puts past all her development of trusting in Luffy, if Ohara ( if it was still alive) was in danger. Shed comply and try to sacrifice herself again.
So dont go around trying to compare situations, Sanji was in a far worse position because the lives of innocent people were on the line. Whereas for Robin, she just has to accept help from people who are already fighitng for her.
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Why tf did Zoro betray Sanji
