Chapter Discussion I am sorry but I just cant take Luffy seriously anymore

[BlackLegFring]

He was completely out of commission. But again, even in this situation Luffy should not push himself. He needs all his strenght, he can't just go to its limits when everyones lives are on the lines and there are no clear solution to get out of the conflict.



No its not. Its logical, its what Luffy has always been doing. Resting in middle of conflict to regain strenght is the best way for him and for everyone else to be safe.

Again, pushing himself to its limits in a situation where there are multiples ennemies not accounted for, a buster call and multiple seraphine would simply be stupid and suicidal. Luffy is not a god and not a savior, he can't just save everyone by the blink of an eye just because he wants to, he has limits (his own) and he can't just defeat an entire fleet plus multiple seraphine, plus multiple pacifista plus an admiral plus a gorosai member with one punch.

Do you not think that Luffy is a top tier? Why should Luffy need to rest when his opponent doesn’t?

Do you think that Kizaru is that much stronger than Luffy? Or Kaido when Luffy was in a much worse state (presumed dead) but didn’t need to eat in the middle of Gear 5?

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2024

He already ate the food before he disappeared. That gave him strength back to be able to move, and go to the vending machine.

Restarting his heart is a last resort, because it comes at the risk of him dying, as pointed out by Kaido. If it's not 100 percent necessary, then he shouldn't do it.

What would restarting his heart, just to save Bonney when she wasn't in immediate danger have achieved, when once it wore out, Luffy would have been in 100 times worse condition, and now he's out of the fight for good?

You keep trying to skim over the point. Why did he need the food at all in the first place? Can you answer at least that?

You think he needed a ton of food to just move to the vending machine, and that’s still terrible because it means he’d have still been helpless even with the first veritable feast someone provided for him.
How could he be in that bad shape?

The last resort excuse doesn’t work because Yamato had already fought Kaido for a while and could take over for a bit if necessary. He’d have also seen all the rest below like Kid & Law and co too when his head was bonked down the roof.

Besides that, currently he would have died if he didn’t restart his heart, and his friends too…so that “he would die” excuse doesn’t work since it’s death in either scenario.
Isn’t it better to die fighting rather than lying helplessly when any grunt could cut your throat or even cuff you in seastone so you couldn’t even restart your heart if you wanted.

Bonney was in immediate danger, no amount of denials will change that. Again, all it would take is 1 finger moving a centimetre to pull a trigger and she’s dead.
You can’t try and ignore that fact just because you don’t like it.

 

[Logiko]

Do you not think that Luffy is a top tier?

Nop. Luffy is amazingly strong, but not strong enough to take the entirerity of the threat that is in Egghead alone. Let's not be completely blind here.

Do you think that Kizaru is that much stronger than Luffy?

No, its just that Kizaru woke up earlier than Luffy who prefered to regain strenght rather than to fight everything and everyone pointlessly.

The crew needs an escape and Luffy needs all his strenght to keep everyone's back safe.

Pushing himself to its limit can work in a situation where Luffy knows that his back is taken care of by his crew or allies. Its not the case on egghead right now. Everyone must flee, fighting endlessly is not the solution here.

 

[Wh1p]

This man knowing full well in how much danger his crew is prefered to go pig out on some Big Macs. Complete clown of a character.

One Piece uses video game logic. Eating food replenishes Luffy's stamina bar.

Hell you can regrow teeth by drinking milk.

 

[DJOMOLO]

No it doesn't fits anyone to not be concerned about Yonkos

Yes it does, tf?

 

[BlackLegFring]

Nop. Luffy is amazingly strong, but not strong enough to take the entirerity of the threat that is in Egghead alone. Let's not be completely blind here.



No, its just that Kizaru woke up earlier than Luffy who prefered to regain strenght rather than to fight everything and everyone pointlessly.

The crew needs an escape and Luffy needs all his strenght to keep everyone's back safe.

Pushing himself to its limit can work in a situation where Luffy knows that his back is taken care of by his crew or allies. Its not the case on egghead right now. Everyone must flee, fighting endlessly is not the solution here.

Again, you aren’t saying anything new. Why didn’t Kizaru need to regain strength unlike Luffy?

Everyone must flee, but they can’t flee if they are dead.
If someone didn’t provide Luffy food, he would have been cuffed as well and couldn’t do anything either.

Everything shows that Luffy absolutely needed all the outside help while Kizaru didn’t. So either you’re saying that Luffy isn’t actually on Kizaru’s level yet…or he is but just chose to accept his friends dying for no reason instead.

 

[Herrera95]

Yes it does, tf?

It literally doesn't. Specially when his captain is concerned about them and Admirals too.

 

[Woozles]

I don't see how this is any different than when

Luffy got locked up in a cage in Orange Town

Almost got beheaded in Logue Town

Had the whole Water Luffy sequence in Alabasta

Got eaten by a snake for most of Skypeia

Got stuck in a wall during Water 7

Tied up during Fishman Island


Like yeah, luffy does stupid shit

 

[Sentry22]

Oda doesn’t care how people view Luffy. That was clear from the way he designed G5. I think he’s just doing what he wants for the purposes of building tension.

 

[Logiko]

Again, you aren’t saying anything new. Why didn’t Kizaru need to regain strength unlike Luffy?

I already explained it to you and you ignored it:

If Luffy think his transformation hits the limits THEN he will need to recharge. Its all about what Luffy thinks.

Everyone must flee, but they can’t flee if they are dead.
If someone didn’t provide Luffy food, he would have been cuffed as well and couldn’t do anything either.

Do you really think Luffy is the type of guy caring about stuff like this ?
What matter is not what could have happened, what matters is what happened.
Luffy was given food, end of debate.

Everything shows that Luffy absolutely needed all the outside help while Kizaru didn’t

Because that's who Luffy is. He relies on others.

So either you’re saying that Luffy isn’t actually on Kizaru’s level yet…or he is but just chose to accept his friends dying for no reason instead.

No. He just trust the fact that his friends will find a solution because they told him they would. Simple as that. If you have read all of One Piece and still not understanding this basic principle, there is a problem.

Luffy relies on his friends, even in the most apocalyptic situations. He only cares about one thing, taking the big threats out. Luffy took out Kizaru so he did his job. What Luffy didn't planned is that Kizaru was not the only big threat. So now he needs to recharge, simple as that.

Again, pushing himself to his limits in this situation would be stupid and suicidal and would save noone.

 

[BlackLegFring]

I already explained it to you and you ignored it:

If Luffy think his transformation hits the limits THEN he will need to recharge. Its all about what Luffy thinks.



Do you really think Luffy is the type of guy caring about stuff like this ?
What matter is not what could have happened, what matters is what happened.
Luffy was given food, end of debate.



Because that's who Luffy is. He relies on others.



No. He just trust the fact that his friends will find a solution because they told him they would. Simple as that. If you have read all of One Piece and still not understanding this basic principle, there is a problem.

Luffy relies on his friends, even in the most apocalyptic situations. He only cares about one thing, taking the big threats out. Luffy took out Kizaru so he did his job. What Luffy didn't planned is that Kizaru was not the only big threat. So now he needs to recharge, simple as that.

Again, pushing himself to his limits in this situation would be stupid and suicidal and would save noone.

So why did Luffy think he hit his limit with Kizaru but not Kaido?
Did Luffy think that Kizaru was that much stronger than Kaido?

Why didn’t he just go “Oh, I haven’t actually hit my limit, so let me save Bonney?”

 

[Logiko]

So why did Luffy think he hit his limit with Kizaru but not Kaido?

He did, in both cases.

But against Kaido, Luffy knew that the only thing he had to do was to beat Kaido and therefore pushes his limits beyond possible. The rest was taken care of by all his ally and Crew. That's why he restarted his transformation.

But here, its not the case. There is not just one ennemy to beat. There is an entire army:
- Soldiers of multiple ranks
- Rear and vice admirals
- An army of pacifista
- Multiple Seraphin
- Two Cp9 agent
- An admiral
- A gorosai member

Its simply impossible for the strawhats to face this threat right now and save vegapunk and Bonney at the same time.

So, Luffy needs to recharge and be ready for what comes next. Simple logic.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

His crew is getting buttfucked at the moment.

For real. Even he in his strongest form wasnt able to beat a Kizaru who held back a lot. And he also noticed Saturn before going down. Does he seriously believe his crew without Zoro (fighting Lucci) is able to do anything against Saturn+Kizaru?

People who bring excuses like "trust" are as pathetic as Luffy is. You basically say he trusts plot armor cause no way in hell any level of trust will help his weak ass crew to even hold themselves against Kizaru and Saturn.

Kuma the first plot armor to begin with, if he didnt appear, at least Bonney would be dead by now. At least.

 

[Bakafish]

You should be sorry you doubter

 

[BlackLegFring]

He did, in both cases.

But against Kaido, Luffy knew that the only thing he had to do was to beat Kaido and therefore pushes his limits beyond possible. The rest was taken care of by all his ally and Crew. That's why he restarted his transformation.

But here, its not the case. There is not just one ennemy to beat. There is an entire army:
- Soldiers of multiple ranks
- Rear and vice admirals
- An army of pacifista
- Multiple Seraphin
- Two Cp9 agent
- An admiral
- A gorosai member

Its simply impossible for the strawhats to face this threat right now and save vegapunk and Bonney at the same time.

So, Luffy needs to recharge and be ready for what comes next. Simple logic.

The excuse doesn’t work since all those other people, the Vice Admirals & co were there all along.
By your reasoning, Luffy shouldn’t have gone Gear 5 at all.

It also doesn’t work since it’s back to square one, so Luffy still has to fight all those people anyway.
Not restarting his heart would lead to him getting cuffed, so that’s obviously worse than just keeping on fighting.

How could he ever help his friends if he gets cuffed and couldn’t even restart his heart if he wanted to?

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Do you not think that Luffy is a top tier? Why should Luffy need to rest when his opponent doesn’t?

Do you think that Kizaru is that much stronger than Luffy? Or Kaido when Luffy was in a much worse state (presumed dead) but didn’t need to eat in the middle of Gear 5?

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2024

You keep trying to skim over the point. Why did he need the food at all in the first place? Can you answer at least that?

You think he needed a ton of food to just move to the vending machine, and that’s still terrible because it means he’d have still been helpless even with the first veritable feast someone provided for him.
How could he be in that bad shape?

The last resort excuse doesn’t work because Yamato had already fought Kaido for a while and could take over for a bit if necessary. He’d have also seen all the rest below like Kid & Law and co too when his head was bonked down the roof.

Besides that, currently he would have died if he didn’t restart his heart, and his friends too…so that “he would die” excuse doesn’t work since it’s death in either scenario.
Isn’t it better to die fighting rather than lying helplessly when any grunt could cut your throat or even cuff you in seastone so you couldn’t even restart your heart if you wanted.

Bonney was in immediate danger, no amount of denials will change that. Again, all it would take is 1 finger moving a centimetre to pull a trigger and she’s dead.
You can’t try and ignore that fact just because you don’t like it.

Are you serious right now?

Luffy needs to eat the food so he can recover his strength and move. The more he eats, the more he recovers his strength, and the longer he can fight.

If Luffy kickstarts his heart, while he is already at his limit, he will only be able to move and maintain G5 for a few minutes at best, after which he will become a lump of coal, that will need to be carried around for the remainder of the arc.

He cannot beat Saturn in just a few minutes, and if Kizaru also gets up, then Luffy needs his full strength to fight against them.

What part of, if Luffy kickstarts his heart while he is already at his limit, he will inevitably become useless, do you not understand?

Unless you think he can beat Saturn, and potentially Kizaru in just a couple minutes, then...Ok....

 

[BlackLegFring]

Are you serious right now?

Luffy needs to eat the food so he can recover his strength and move. The more he eats, the more he recovers his strength, and the longer he can fight.

If Luffy kickstarts his heart, while he is already at his limit, he will only be able to move and maintain G5 for a few minutes at best, after which he will become a lump of coal, that will need to be carried around for the remainder of the arc.

He cannot beat Saturn in just a few minutes, and if Kizaru also gets up, then Luffy needs his full strength to fight against them.

What part of, if Luffy kickstarts his heart while he is already at his limit, he will inevitably become useless, do you not understand?

Unless you think he can beat Saturn, and potentially Kizaru in just a couple minutes, then...Ok....

Still doesn’t work. By that reasoning, he shouldn’t have restarted his heart against Kaido since he only had a couple of minutes too. If he could free his friends, at the very least they could cover for a while.

Again, he started out in much better shape in the Kizaru fight as well. So are you saying that Kizaru was just that much more powerful that he drained him so much worse than Kaido did?

How does he know that he can’t beat Saturn in just a few minutes? He couldn’t at least try to kick him into the sea? Weren’t you the one talking about knowledge that readers have but not the characters?

“Luffy will inevitably become useless” is the case regardless of whichever option he chooses. It will happen regardless of whenever he chose to use it.
Not restarting his heart is the worst of them because he would have gotten cuffed and that’s the end completely. Even if he dies fighting, at least he tried something and didn’t just wait around for the death.
His friends would be dead…then what good does it do him then?

 

[Sogekingu]

This man knowing full well in how much danger his crew is prefered to go pig out on some Big Macs. Complete clown of a character.

At least Zoro is pulling his own weight.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Still doesn’t work. By that reasoning, he shouldn’t have restarted his heart against Kaido since he only had a couple of minutes too. If he could free his friends, at the very least they could cover for a while.

Again, he started out in much better shape in the Kizaru fight as well. So are you saying that Kizaru was just that much more powerful that he drained him so much worse than Kaido did?

How does he know that he can’t beat Saturn in just a few minutes? He couldn’t at least try to kick him into the sea? Weren’t you the one talking about knowledge that readers have but not the characters?

“Luffy will inevitably become useless” is the case regardless of whichever option he chooses. It will happen regardless of whenever he chose to use it.
Not restarting his heart is the worst of them because he would have gotten cuffed and that’s the end completely. Even if he dies fighting, at least he tried something and didn’t just wait around for the death.
His friends would be dead…then what good does it do him then?

You're shitting me right? Am I being punkd? Ashton, where you at?

Against Kaido, at that moment, it was all or nothing. Luffy either goes past his limit, and defeats Kaido, or Onigashima drops on the Flower Capital, killing hundreds of thousands, then Kaido proceeds to go and kill everyone in the alliance. Also, Luffy was literally in the middle of fighting Kaido when he had to restart his heart. What do you expect him to do? Tell Kaido wait here for a bit so he can run all over Onigashima, and look for a kitchen?

At the time Luffy left here to go recover by eating, Kuma had showed up, and Kizaru was still down. So Luffy risking to take 2 minutes to go and recover 100 percent is the best bet. That way he can come back and fight at his best, without any risks.

These two situations aren't even remotely comparable.

 

[Nvax]

The One Piece community the last couple years has absolutely dogsh*t it’s really sad to see.

 

[DJOMOLO]

It literally doesn't. Specially when his captain is concerned about them and Admirals too.

Luffy was never scared of big mom whatsoever. Her fruit didn't work on him.