Chapter Discussion I am sorry but I just cant take Luffy seriously anymore
- Thread starter Fujishiro
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Those are my words buddy! The people that Luffy is supposed to protect are surrounded and about to be killed, and you think that isnāt all or nothing?
He was supposed to rely on the kindness of killers that they would delay just long enough for salvation to drop from the heavens?
You just think that Luffy broke the 4th wall and saw Oda writing the story so knew he wouldnāt die, because there is no excuse otherwise.
From the moment Saturn said āaim for the head,ā it was do or die.
Youāre saying that Luffy chose die without fighting. Thatās ridiculous.
All that you are doing is trying to gloss over the external salvation like Kuma showing up or someone giving him food because you know damn well that the entire party would be dead right now if not for the villainās restraint while Luffy was begging for food.
Again, itās simple as hell: Luffy would not beg for food if he didnāt need it. Hasnāt happened once, so you canāt try to brush it aside for this time either.
He was supposed to rely on the kindness of killers that they would delay just long enough for salvation to drop from the heavens?
You just think that Luffy broke the 4th wall and saw Oda writing the story so knew he wouldnāt die, because there is no excuse otherwise.
From the moment Saturn said āaim for the head,ā it was do or die.
Youāre saying that Luffy chose die without fighting. Thatās ridiculous.
All that you are doing is trying to gloss over the external salvation like Kuma showing up or someone giving him food because you know damn well that the entire party would be dead right now if not for the villainās restraint while Luffy was begging for food.
Again, itās simple as hell: Luffy would not beg for food if he didnāt need it. Hasnāt happened once, so you canāt try to brush it aside for this time either.
And Iām going to put it as simplistic as I can as well.
Itās also canon that Luffy needs food to restart in the current situation. HE CANāT DO IT NOW! You canāt pick and choose which to like and which to ignore.
Whatever mental gymnastics you want to pull to pretend that heād rather have his friends die than get up to protect them wonāt work because thatās not who Luffy isā¦EVER!
If Luffy could stand up and fight he will do so, no questions asked. The only time that Luffy asks for help or food is when he absolutely needs it.
That hasnāt changed with Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moriah, Magellan/Impel Down, or Marineford.
Itās also canon that Luffy needs food to restart in the current situation. HE CANāT DO IT NOW! You canāt pick and choose which to like and which to ignore.
Whatever mental gymnastics you want to pull to pretend that heād rather have his friends die than get up to protect them wonāt work because thatās not who Luffy isā¦EVER!
If Luffy could stand up and fight he will do so, no questions asked. The only time that Luffy asks for help or food is when he absolutely needs it.
That hasnāt changed with Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moriah, Magellan/Impel Down, or Marineford.
Was Luffy begging for food when he kickstarted his heart in the middle of the Kaido fight? If you want to try and ignore that, go ahead. Thatās what happened in the manga currently though, which is obviously worse than not needing any food at all and just doing it.
Whether you like it or not (I certainly donāt which is precisely why Iām criticizing it), thatās what happened. Thereās no option to pretend that it didnāt.
Whether you like it or not (I certainly donāt which is precisely why Iām criticizing it), thatās what happened. Thereās no option to pretend that it didnāt.
Luffy wouldn't be able to help much without food to recover. He trusts his crew to carry their own weight. Let's be honest here, Zoro can stall Kizaru by himself. Sanji and Jinbe can probably stall Saturn. The SHs (except Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe) need to stop being useless fodder and do some shit. This shit isn't funny anymore. They are a yonko crew. Nami, Chopper and Usopp should be able to solo the pre skip CP9.
If Enies Lobby was being serialized right now, you guys would be complaining
"Making Luffy small after using a special move?! Freaking embarrassing. I can no longer take this manga seriously!"
"USOPP SCRATCHING ON A CHALKBOARD WHILE HIS FRIENDS ARE IN TROUBLE?! HACK WRITING!"
"A FAT MERMAID SAVES THE CREW FROM DROWNING? ONE PIECE HAS FALLEN!"
One Piece has always had moments of levity, even during climatic moments. If Oda wrote exactly how some of you guys would want him to, this manga would have no charm
"Making Luffy small after using a special move?! Freaking embarrassing. I can no longer take this manga seriously!"
"USOPP SCRATCHING ON A CHALKBOARD WHILE HIS FRIENDS ARE IN TROUBLE?! HACK WRITING!"
"A FAT MERMAID SAVES THE CREW FROM DROWNING? ONE PIECE HAS FALLEN!"
One Piece has always had moments of levity, even during climatic moments. If Oda wrote exactly how some of you guys would want him to, this manga would have no charm
Gear 5 doesn't push the limit mate. Its only when he pushes himself after the end of gear 5 that things could get dangerous. Luffy absolutely need to transform to beat those ennemies.
No, he just needed to take care of KIzaru while others are running. What you still don't understand is that its not a situation of duel, its an escape situation. Gear 5 here will only be used to protect others while everybody runs.
He could pushes his limit (and not restart his hearth) but it would be stupid and suicidal, this is not a desesperate situation just yet, so he can still recharge while believing in his friend to help him.
Again, you are looking at a mechanic that has been around since the beginning of One Piece.
No, he just needed to take care of KIzaru while others are running. What you still don't understand is that its not a situation of duel, its an escape situation. Gear 5 here will only be used to protect others while everybody runs.
He could pushes his limit (and not restart his hearth) but it would be stupid and suicidal, this is not a desesperate situation just yet, so he can still recharge while believing in his friend to help him.
Again, you are looking at a mechanic that has been around since the beginning of One Piece.
S
The fact that Luffy suffers exhaustion after a short period of time when using a transformation is definitely an obstacle placed by Oda to restrain his power and create tension in the story. This physical limitation prevents Luffy from simply defeating his opponents easily and quickly.
This isn't the first time it has happened, and I don't know why people only started complaining now. In Wano, we literally had the same thing. Firstly, Kaido defeated Luffy in chapter 1014 or 1015 and threw him out of the island, even watching him fall into the sea. Secondly, just like Oda is making Saturn and Kizaru look like idiots here, he made Kaido magically become stupid and only remembered to decapitate Luffy and declare his victory after throwing Luffy into the sea to drown. Meanwhile, Luffy was rescued and fed by Caribou (literally eating). Kaido then went down to wipe out the entire alliance and simply "killed" Kinemon, destroyed Kinemon; Kinemon's case is similar to Kuma's, but Kaido also pursued Momonosuke and Shinobu to the extent that both jumped off the island to try to escape... The writing in Wano is better because at that point, Luffy didn't have Gear 4, and indeed, Kaido left him unable to return to the island anytime soon; literally, he depended on Momo jumping off the island and later flying back with Luffy, all while Kaido beat his second victim (his own daughter).
The point is, since the beginning of the arc, Luffy was introduced to the food machine, so he was already aware that such a thing existed on the island, which wasn't the case in Wano. After that, as some people have already explained in the topic, Luffy didn't really need to risk his life and exceed his limits and enter Gear 5 again when the option to restore his energy was literally presented to him at the beginning of the arc; this is a measure that requires less of him. Nobody would like Luffy to be that overpowered guy who solves everything and never receives an "L." Look at the development Kizaru had while Oda restrained Luffy with jokes like "ate too much"; this would never have happened if Luffy had restarted his heart because if he had done that, Kizaru would be beaten up again by Luffy.
But don't get me wrong, it's not that Luffy took an "L" for being almost unable to move just because he "ate too much." Basically, the food has already done more than Kizaru against Luffy throughout the entire arc. However, the issue of restriction imposed on Luffy by Oda is too true, and the EGG is proof of that. We have Snakeman without Advanced CoC, Base Luffy without Advanced CoC throughout the entire arc, and even G5 without Advanced CoC against Lucci and Kizaru, with Oda deciding to release some of the restriction on Luffy towards the end and near his limit.
It means I see this as the only way for Oda to develop other narratives and add tension to the arcs from now on, although it's no longer working because we're already tired of this same formula being applied in every arc. However, removing the restrictions on Luffy would make this manga even worse because basically Luffy would be going around delivering one-hit KOs to everyone left and right. Take Kizaru for example, if it weren't for Luffy's time limit and in the same context (with him trying to assassinate Vegapunk and Luffy trying to protect him), luffy would have simply defeated Kizaru in 2 attacks by now, and we would be seeing him defeating Saturn too. That would be a rather funny way to ruin the manga. Of course, Saturn and Kizaru are also strongly contributing to the arc being so rubbish because Kizaru is an empty shell that doesn't contribute anything to the progress of Luffy's dream, and the same goes for Saturn.
This isn't the first time it has happened, and I don't know why people only started complaining now. In Wano, we literally had the same thing. Firstly, Kaido defeated Luffy in chapter 1014 or 1015 and threw him out of the island, even watching him fall into the sea. Secondly, just like Oda is making Saturn and Kizaru look like idiots here, he made Kaido magically become stupid and only remembered to decapitate Luffy and declare his victory after throwing Luffy into the sea to drown. Meanwhile, Luffy was rescued and fed by Caribou (literally eating). Kaido then went down to wipe out the entire alliance and simply "killed" Kinemon, destroyed Kinemon; Kinemon's case is similar to Kuma's, but Kaido also pursued Momonosuke and Shinobu to the extent that both jumped off the island to try to escape... The writing in Wano is better because at that point, Luffy didn't have Gear 4, and indeed, Kaido left him unable to return to the island anytime soon; literally, he depended on Momo jumping off the island and later flying back with Luffy, all while Kaido beat his second victim (his own daughter).
The point is, since the beginning of the arc, Luffy was introduced to the food machine, so he was already aware that such a thing existed on the island, which wasn't the case in Wano. After that, as some people have already explained in the topic, Luffy didn't really need to risk his life and exceed his limits and enter Gear 5 again when the option to restore his energy was literally presented to him at the beginning of the arc; this is a measure that requires less of him. Nobody would like Luffy to be that overpowered guy who solves everything and never receives an "L." Look at the development Kizaru had while Oda restrained Luffy with jokes like "ate too much"; this would never have happened if Luffy had restarted his heart because if he had done that, Kizaru would be beaten up again by Luffy.
But don't get me wrong, it's not that Luffy took an "L" for being almost unable to move just because he "ate too much." Basically, the food has already done more than Kizaru against Luffy throughout the entire arc. However, the issue of restriction imposed on Luffy by Oda is too true, and the EGG is proof of that. We have Snakeman without Advanced CoC, Base Luffy without Advanced CoC throughout the entire arc, and even G5 without Advanced CoC against Lucci and Kizaru, with Oda deciding to release some of the restriction on Luffy towards the end and near his limit.
It means I see this as the only way for Oda to develop other narratives and add tension to the arcs from now on, although it's no longer working because we're already tired of this same formula being applied in every arc. However, removing the restrictions on Luffy would make this manga even worse because basically Luffy would be going around delivering one-hit KOs to everyone left and right. Take Kizaru for example, if it weren't for Luffy's time limit and in the same context (with him trying to assassinate Vegapunk and Luffy trying to protect him), luffy would have simply defeated Kizaru in 2 attacks by now, and we would be seeing him defeating Saturn too. That would be a rather funny way to ruin the manga. Of course, Saturn and Kizaru are also strongly contributing to the arc being so rubbish because Kizaru is an empty shell that doesn't contribute anything to the progress of Luffy's dream, and the same goes for Saturn.
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Probably just different standards for "fodder".
I agree that Luffy dominated Lucci, but he used his strongest form to do so, Lucci was able to clash equally on one occasion and survived several named attacks before Luffy eventually put him down (and even then, only for like a minute or two).
That said Lucci was completely unable to harm Luffy in Gear 5 and didn't seriously push Gear 5 Luffy (e.g. no Haoshoku coating).
I don't disagree that someone like e.g. Shanks could oneshot Lucci though.
I agree that Luffy dominated Lucci, but he used his strongest form to do so, Lucci was able to clash equally on one occasion and survived several named attacks before Luffy eventually put him down (and even then, only for like a minute or two).
That said Lucci was completely unable to harm Luffy in Gear 5 and didn't seriously push Gear 5 Luffy (e.g. no Haoshoku coating).
I don't disagree that someone like e.g. Shanks could oneshot Lucci though.