Controversial Art and Whatnot

Art is separable from artist ?


  • Total voters
    13
#21
I don't think it needs to have permission to be trained on
Well, we gonna have a lot of problem in this case lol


If you go to a museum right now and go look at all of the old artists paintings, are you getting permissiont to add that to your brains memory and call upon it when you go to draw your own?
And that's where you are wrong. You make a fallacious analogy. The analogy that equate the computing of AI with the computing of the brain.

First, you surely know that even in the case that an artist recalls perfectly another work, copying the data is still... well plagiarism.

Secondly, the brain doesn't work like the AI program does. When you add to works of another artists on your image memory bank, you don't copy and paste those different works on your own work. Yet, this is exactly what AI is doing. It only copies and paste based on data bank and a matrice of pixel, it doesn't imagine or use anykind of knowledge to create. Which means that without the bank of images the AI is trained on, there is no final product at all when there is one for a human.

Human uses their memories and other's work only as inspirations. They don't need it to create great art. In fact, its perfectly possible to become a skilled artist without even accessing any kind of data from other artists.

So, when the work of artists is being used to train AI and make profit out of it, its called stealing, and for a good reason.

Now apply this to learning from other artists as we do. If we don't have to get permission, then AI doesn't need permission.
Again, you are starting on the basis that those are two similar processes when they are not.

Doing art is not simply drawing, playing the flute and shaping a bunch of wet stone.

Art is about understanding our reality, how it works, how it is shaped, how it is lighten, how its sounds, why it is the way it is...
.. Taking all this knowledge through our own history and values and personnal context...
.. and shaping it back into a new form to touch the emotions of others.

There is no such process in AI usage. The AI uses works from artists to copy and paste what the training made it learn to be reality was without understanding of it and therefore no chance to expand beyond limits. Ai is by essence limited by the median point of all the ressources in its data bank. It can't go farther.

Now, as long as people will profit from AI trained on the work of other artists, those artists will militate to stop the AI based on copyrighted material.

So.. as an artist, you would be wise to understand that if a tech bro with an AI tool can use the work of copyrighted material of artists, they can also use the AI products of other tech bros who are using this same tool to produce more AI "work" and therefore profit out of it and replace the first tech bros with themselves until another tech bro comes along.. and so on... and so on.. and so on....

.. until AI based production and the entire artistic industry implodes on itself thus putting hundreds of thousand of people out of work.

But yey !!... Progress !

 
#22
Well, we gonna have a lot of problem in this case lol



And that's where you are wrong. You make a fallacious analogy. The analogy that equate the computing of AI with the computing of the brain.

First, you surely know that even in the case that an artist recalls perfectly another work, copying the data is still... well plagiarism.

Secondly, the brain doesn't work like the AI program does. When you add to works of another artists on your image memory bank, you don't copy and paste those different works on your own work. Yet, this is exactly what AI is doing. It only copies and paste based on data bank and a matrice of pixel, it doesn't imagine or use anykind of knowledge to create. Which means that without the bank of images the AI is trained on, there is no final product at all when there is one for a human.

Human uses their memories and other's work only as inspirations. They don't need it to create great art. In fact, its perfectly possible to become a skilled artist without even accessing any kind of data from other artists.

So, when the work of artists is being used to train AI and make profit out of it, its called stealing, and for a good reason.


Again, you are starting on the basis that those are two similar processes when they are not.

Doing art is not simply drawing, playing the flute and shaping a bunch of wet stone.

Art is about understanding our reality, how it works, how it is shaped, how it is lighten, how its sounds, why it is the way it is...
.. Taking all this knowledge through our own history and values and personnal context...
.. and shaping it back into a new form to touch the emotions of others.

There is no such process in AI usage. The AI uses works from artists to copy and paste what the training made it learn to be reality was without understanding of it and therefore no chance to expand beyond limits. Ai is by essence limited by the median point of all the ressources in its data bank. It can't go farther.

Now, as long as people will profit from AI trained on the work of other artists, those artists will militate to stop the AI based on copyrighted material.

So.. as an artist, you would be wise to understand that if a tech bro with an AI tool can use the work of copyrighted material of artists, they can also use the AI products of other tech bros who are using this same tool to produce more AI "work" and therefore profit out of it and replace the first tech bros with themselves until another tech bro comes along.. and so on... and so on.. and so on....

.. until AI based production and the entire artistic industry implodes on itself thus putting hundreds of thousand of people out of work.

But yey !!... Progress !

Everything you just said is absolute bullshit. You're sitting here trying to tell a coder who has worked on machine learning, how it works. Maybe actually go and learn how the algorithm actually functions before trying to have two cents in this argument.
 
#23
AI is mostly hitting concept art. It's not good enough to make a consistent manga.

But as a one off concept landscape or something, they're killing it. It actually sucks for artists making a living out of making covers, because a lot of novels and comics are already using AI art.
 
#24
Everything you just said is absolute bullshit
Sure.

:beckmoji:


You're sitting here trying to tell a coder who has worked on machine learning, how it works.
Maybe actually go and learn how the algorithm actually functions before trying to have two cents in this argument.
There is nothing complicated to understand about AI training.

But yes, you are right, I'm not a coder, so I do not know the entire process, but I'm sure you will grant us the joy of explaining and show how the AI tools are similar to the function of the brain in an artistic context.. and if your words are convincing enough, I might take them to neuroscientific and AI coders forums to have, you know... a real consensus.

And yes, wether you like it or not, an AI is not creating Sh*t, it copies data, takes it though its algorithm and paste the result on the page. The complexity of the algorythm doesn't change the fact that:

- The AI tool is trained on copy of work of artist without consent
- The AI tool doesn't understands reality like an artist does
- The AI tool doesn't understands the work it is based on
- The AI tool reproduces data of works of AI without consent

:kayneshrug:
 

Calypso

"It is warm within the mansions of Hel"
#26
AI isn't art.
"I can type 2 words into a computer. I'm an artist".
That's high-level bullshit.
AI always looks the same.. if you saw one you saw them all and it's still easy to point out what is AI and what is drawn by a human being.

You can cause so many bs with AI about other persons. Can't wait to see fake sex videos ans other harassment stuff with the new AI video-app..

I'm not a fan of modern art either. Remember thr taped banana at the wall and everyone lost their shit?​
 
#28
How are AIs gonna make an impact in the art industry ?

AI is making the craft of art and the access to art more acessible to everyone, specially to those who live in poor countries.

Do you think that art is pointless and fills up the void of our lives ??

I disagree completely.
Art, sports and love are some of thr healthiest ways to find meaning in life.

What do you think about art therapy ? a scam or a discovery ?​

I studied art therapy and work with it. I truly believe it is a very powerful tool to help sick people, specially depression and mind deseases.

What is the best kind of art ? If you answer none or cinema, you're a loser. You must choose !

All forms of art have their value.
But I am specially devoted to classical music and literature.​

What are your favorites pieces of arts ?
Iove Bach' Goldberg Variations


Brahms' Intermezzos


Ravel's Piano Concerto


Fromms' Art of Love




And Kurosawa's movies, specially Dreams


What did you recently discover ?

I discovered recently that educators in Sweden made an experiment at school teaching kids during 4 years without using books and it did not end very well for the children's develolment. So they are reconsidering it and reincorporating phisical books ti their curriculum. So books are really important and amazing.


Do you go to exhibitions ? Did you like one recently ?

Yes, I do. I love contemporary art, too. I really appreciated a grafiti expostion last week

Would you enjoy your favorite art the same if you knew its creators are criminals ?

I usually research a lot about the art I admire. But this is a though question.

Shostakovich was considered a criminal for some time.


Segovia had to abandon his country too during Franco's dictatorship.

https://youtu.be/RmdRCywCtbs?si=27ULEC6Ic1e6IJyA

As well as many Brazilian artists who flew away from the country during dictatorship

https://youtu.be/AAYoBB_eca0?si=m9TMdUddCE3li_y0


Many artists have controversial views and might have problems with the status quo. I do not think that how the world sees them is more important than the art they create.

Why aren't you an artist ?

I am an artist. I am a pianist and composer, but I earn my money teaching music.

When should art become free ? Should artists even get paid ?

I believe art should be accessible.

Artists should get paid if they contrubute to the happiness of society as well to raise questions of life.

I like Patreon and other systems that connect artist to their consumers

But art and profit do not necessarily go together.

You can make art only for the sake of art or personal desire or to change the world




 
Last edited:

Adam 🍎

Pretty Boy
#30
How are AIs gonna make an impact in the art industry ?
It will be a negative

Art is only good if you have soul connection to it wheres AI is soulless. Every artist has something unique to him in how he does things wheres AI is just imperfectly perfect.

That being said AI will be used massively by corporations and people wanting a quick access to cheap art. But no AI will ever be able to make smth as good as this

 
#31
That being said AI will be used massively by corporations
Do people understand that corporations are the ones who feed a lot of artists nowadays ? I guess this depends on where you stop your definition of a corporation. But for instance, writers like Salman Rushdie used to write for ad agencies. And many directors who made it to he film industry are coming from commercials. For instance, Jonathan Glazer worked and keeps working as a director in commercials despite releasing Under the Skin, and this was 10years ago... his last film The Zone of Interest is nominated for the Academy Awards but he'll probably keep directing commercials after that one too.


Music videos and commercials are a path toward directing feature films for many aspiring directors.

But no AI will ever be able to make smth as good as this

What's this ? To be fair, AI could one day help to do that kind of craft.

Have you guys seen videos on internet on how VFX artists and whatnot are being replaced by an AI image generated in the background of videos ?
 

Adam 🍎

Pretty Boy
#32
Do people understand that corporations are the ones who feed a lot of artists nowadays ? I guess this depends on where you stop your definition of a corporation. But for instance, writers like Salman Rushdie used to write for ad agencies. And many directors who made it to he film industry are coming from commercials. For instance, Jonathan Glazer worked and keeps working as a director in commercials despite releasing Under the Skin, and this was 10years ago... his last film The Zone of Interest is nominated for the Academy Awards but he'll probably keep directing commercials after that one too.
And Corporation will look and ask themselves would they rather pay Author/Artist 50k or pay a 50$ license for AI and do it like that
 
#33
AI is making the craft of art and the access to art more acessible to everyone, specially to those who live in poor countries.
There is absolutely no "art crafting in AI" (as far as now) and to make art you need absolutely nothing more than your brain, your hands, a pen and piece of paper or simply your voice.. There is nothing more accessible than Art in the world and that's precisely why its Art that sometimes helps people in situations of oppression.

@Logiko trust you to drop "fallacies" or a pathetic sub-variant of it, you fukn kretin
What ? :queenhear:
 
#35
How are AIs gonna make an impact in the art industry ?

Do you think that art is pointless and fills up the void of our lives ??

What do you think about art therapy ? a scam or a discovery ?​

What is the best kind of art ? If you answer none or cinema, you're a loser. You must choose !​

What are your favorites pieces of arts ?

What did you recently discover ?

Do you go to exhibitions ? Did you like one recently ?

Would you enjoy your favorite art the same if you knew its creators are criminals ?

Why aren't you an artist ?

When should art become free ? Should artists even get paid ?





Make sure to share art in this thread !





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These topics will be useless when the generation being born now takes the mantle, they're completely out of touch with reality
Our generation is out of touch with reality to some extent, but we still no whats up to some degree. They don't.
 
#36
Article written by tech bros for tech bro.

Mostly based again on the fallacious postulate that art is not accessible in the first place when this is not true. The KNOWLEDGE of art might not be accessible, but the creation of art is.

In reality while there might be some AI tools that can help artist product, generative AI are not creating anything and people who use prompt are not artist, they are people using tools trained on other artist's work. Tool that exist only because of the presence of those work in their data bank and could not exist without them.

Imagine that as a composer: You create a symphony through your darkest hour. And two years laters, looking at a new AI tool made to create music, you come accross a product that is composed almost exactly the way you created your symphony without real deformation.. and a guy is actually taking credit out of it and selling it to producers. Then you discover that your composition was used to train the AI... do you feel like there would be no problem here ?

You need to remember that Art is not only art because it touches or emotion, Art is art also because of the context of its creation. By removing this context, you strip away a part of what make art ... art.. And you create only something that might appear pretty.. but has no substance.

Ai can be usefull. On the other hand, using generative AI trained on other work for profit is theft. Simple as that.
 

Nikuzi

⚓𝒫𝒾𝓇𝒶𝓉𝑒 𝒬𝓊𝑒𝑒𝓃 𝒮𝑒𝓃𝒸𝒽𝑜𝓊⚓
#38
AI art isn't making art more accessible. Literally anyone can be an artist with a pencil and some paper. You might not be good or be able to draw at the level you want, but as soon as you put the pencil to paper to draw you're an artist. You can get better by practicing, like literally every other thing on the planet
 

Rottkins

✯ ✧ 𝔾 𝕠 𝕕 𝕠 𝕗 𝕃 𝕚 𝕖 𝕤 ✧ ✯
#39
Should art be for free is like asking if pastry should be free and should bakers should be paid.

It's still time consuming commission, same as writting.
 
#40
People getting just uppity because of technology, this is a thing in every generation and historically documented

Once upon a time it was art to make figurines per hand, a well respected guild back then too one too i might add, yet people print that shit in 3d now.


And way longer they are made on a conveyor belt

I guess its because its more on your face

Also AI art, while still looking like slop, is already going beyond drawings
 
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