Bougya The Great Debate: ACoC or not?

[Rootbeer]

1. CoC coating touches, it will not touch only if you use acoa(emission) together with acoc

acoc touches​

2. This is not a factor, but it often happens when using acoc(for example we can see attack after hit)
3. This is not a factor, but it can happen

No sky splitting​

4. This is not a factor, but it can happen

​

"So for Zoro's case only we can say he has a 5th rule to be sure he is using CoC coating"
5. It has never been stated that. There is nothing stopping Zoro from using acoc/coc outside KoH

100% acoc factor:
1.Black lightning
2.Direct statements
3.Vivre Cards/SBS(like in Oden Paradise Totsuka case)
4.In anime black lightning is 100% factor of acoc, according to Vincent Chansard interview(they get direct script when they need to draw acoc)

not 100% acoc factor,but very likely:
1.zzt-zzt/zap-zap signs or バリバリ/bari bari sfx katakana before/during/after attack(happens with almost all acoc attacks)

AdCoC doesn't touch.. When Luffy first used it there was no CoA barrier with it since it's a defensive technique and not used offensively..
Plus CoA barrier does not do internal damage, it's CoA internal Destruction that does Internal Damage but that abilities touches and if it's used with AdCoC it inflates like Garp's Galaxy Impact..

Apparently when zoro kills someone in rootbeers mind the opponent is only sleeping or in coma. Same shit with zoro using ACoC or CoA Barrier.

Who did Zoro kill?.. It's just a CoA lightning clash..

 

[Santoryu D Bazooka]

Apparently when zoro kills someone in rootbeers mind the opponent is only sleeping or in coma. Same shit with zoro using ACoC or CoA Barrier.

He thinks Lucci clashed with Zoro's attack using his body and he is explaining that is why there are lightning trails

And what if someone endure the attack?.. Lucci didn't do nothing he survived the attack!.. He tanked the damage, that's why there was Haki clash.. Keep in mind that Zoro is a CoC user now too and CoA Lightning flows through CoC as shown with Doflamingo and Luffy's clash..

The Haki rules is physical and mental, you can't look at a Haki clash strictly physically..

Zoro and Lucci.. Lucci's reaction manifested by the Haki trails, there would have been no haki clash in the first place if Lucci didn't react to the damage..


'' Matrix dodge '', more like Zoro's plot armor.. Here's another moment where Zoro's plot armor was involved, Kaido let Zoro cut him so there was no Haki Clash contrary to the 4 Scabbards vs Kaido..

Enduring the attack is fine but that does not mean he "clashed" with Zoro LOL. He got cut no mind no body stop spouting bullshit lol
here have this link again read it : https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/clash

Haki being Physical or Mental matters not. Because in order to clash mentally aka CoC vs CoC like Luffy vs Katakuri u need both of them to use the same thing. Physical Clash means both users are using Physical Haki to Clash.

Learn the definition of a Clash : https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/clash

And no Lucci's had no reaction to manifest in trails LMAO. Stop saying shit out of nowhere. Lucci got cut went white eyed that means he got overwhelmed and off guard for not being able to react in time. So yea trails are Zoro's only

try again

Kaido let Zoro cut him so there was no clash just like how lucci couldn't react in time and got cut but this time Zoro knows how to use haki better = Trails are Zoro's

Scabbards panel is also not a clash look at Kaido's face he was simply "cut" the trails are the combined efforts of the scabbards attack Kaido let them he said so too. Which means Trails are Zoro's

Try again

 

[Gintoki]

Apparently when zoro kills someone in rootbeers mind the opponent is only sleeping or in coma. Same shit with zoro using ACoC or CoA Barrier.

When did this happen?

 

[Sandro]

AdCoC doesn't touch.. When Luffy first used it there was no CoA barrier with it since it's a defensive technique and not used offensively..
Plus CoA barrier does not do internal damage, it's CoA internal Destruction that does Internal Damage but that abilities touches and if it's used with AdCoC it inflates like Garp's Galaxy Impact..




Who did Zoro kill?.. It's just a CoA lightning clash..

"AdCoC doesn't touch.."
You can literally see in the image that acoc is touching. Acoc its just a ability to infuse things with coc.

"When Luffy first used it there was no CoA barrier with it since it's a defensive technique and not used offensively.."
It can be used both as a defense and as an attack.

"That armor can be used as a weapon"

"It can be used for defense, like invisible armor or it can be converted to offensive use, to great effect"​

"Plus CoA barrier does not do internal damage"
I did not say that


"it's CoA internal Destruction that does Internal Damage but that abilities touches and if it's used with AdCoC it inflates like Garp's Galaxy Impact.."
Pure headcanon

 

[Blazing Lion]

Big Mom is clashing physically by taking in the pain given by Damned punk, resisting and producing Haki clash..

Big Mom here clashing with herself and her repressed memories by haviing a mental breakdown..

It doesn't have to be physical for there to be a Haki clash, it can be pyschological..

Post automatically merged: Mar 19, 2024

You're biased.. There's no way in hell that CoA Barrier and CoA coating on Swords are the same thing.. CoA Barrier doesn't exist for Swordsmen..

YOU NEED HELP

 

[Dark Admiral]

 

[Herrera95]

I told you Hyogoro doesn't consider himself a Samurai and he's speaking generally of the Samurai in Wano.. Again you're interpreting in your own way what you're reading..

Irrelevant. He knows Ryou and the explanation of coating is the same that Zoro used in Alabasta.

Post automatically merged: Mar 19, 2024

CoC coating touches, it will not touch only if you use acoa(emission) together with acoc

acoc touches​

Headcannon.

This is not a factor, but it can happen

No sky splitting​

4. This is not a factor, but it can happen

I said that all 5 are possibilities of CoC coating not that they should happen all the time.

"So for Zoro's case only we can say he has a 5th rule to be sure he is using CoC coating"
5. It has never been stated that. There is nothing stopping Zoro from using acoc/coc outside KoH

Again not a rule just a possibility so we can be sure of it.

3.Vivre Cards/SBS(like in Oden Paradise Totsuka case)

This is fandom mislead. That attack was never told to be CoC coating. And Vivre Cards aren't cannon only SBS.

4.In anime black lightning is 100% factor of acoc, according to Vincent Chansard interview(they get direct script when they need to draw acoc)

Anime is not cannon.

1.Black lightning

This is used for CoA way before the CoC coating introduction.

not 100% acoc factor,but very likely:
1.zzt-zzt/zap-zap signs or バリバリ/bari bari sfx katakana before/during/after attack(happens with almost all acoc attacks)

Maybe.

 

[BornInAbyss]

AdCoC doesn't touch.. When Luffy first used it there was no CoA barrier with it since it's a defensive technique and not used offensively..
Plus CoA barrier does not do internal damage, it's CoA internal Destruction that does Internal Damage but that abilities touches and if it's used with AdCoC it inflates like Garp's Galaxy Impact..




Who did Zoro kill?.. It's just a CoA lightning clash..

It was for analogy purpose. And even then, remember that Magistrate in Wano? That guy was killed by zoro with a small pocket knife.

But yeah as we all know that guy was only sleeping or in coma at worst in your mind.

When it comes to zoro you always try to find delusions in which you actually believe in, so zoro doesn‘t appear that impressive to you. You do that with ACoC, you do that with barrier CoA, you do that with black lightning created by zoro even. „Thats just black lightning created by zoro clashing with luccis skin, nothing special here“. An idiot like you is never aware of how much of an idiot he truly is. You act like your delusions are facts.

 

[Sandro]

Headcannon.

You can literally see in the image that acoc is touching. Acoc its just a ability to infuse things with coc. Its doesn't give you ability of no touching. If you know how to infuse things with coa, you can infuse things with coc, which is why Luffy was able to make acoc once he learned that coc could be infused into items. He already knew how to do this haki control technique, only the type of haki changed.

This is fandom mislead. That attack was never told to be CoC coating. And Vivre Cards aren't cannon only SBS.

I re-checked it was about Paradise Waterfall and Divine Departure(SBS Volume 100), both attacks use Supreme King Haki.

Vivre Cards are canon, confirmed by Oda in SBS Volume 91, "For those who want to know even the finer details, there's also SBS and the ONE PIECE Encyclopedia!(Vivre Cards)"

Anime is not cannon.

I didn’t say that the anime is canon

This is used for CoA way before the CoC coating introduction.

Yes, black lightning is a factor in both

 

[Herrera95]

You can literally see in the image that acoc is touching. Acoc its just a ability to infuse things with coc. Its doesn't give you ability of no touching. If you know how to infuse things with coa, you can infuse things with coc, which is why Luffy was able to make acoc once he learned that coc could be infused into items. He already knew how to do this haki control technique, only the type of haki changed.

The headcannon is to claim that you can get the no touch effect when combining ACoA.

I re-checked it was about Paradise Waterfall and Divine Departure(SBS Volume 100), both attacks use Supreme King Haki.

Vivre Cards are canon, confirmed by Oda in SBS Volume 91, "For those who want to know even the finer details, there's also SBS and the ONE PIECE Encyclopedia!(Vivre Cards)"

Manga and SBS is directly Oda words. Vivre Cards are not. From time to time vivre cards are proved wrong and has to be fixed.

And again the SBS doesn't confirms to be CoC coating attack.

 

[Galahad]

Show me where it says the contrary as well, where covering CoA on an object is the same as covering your body with it..

So?.. Zoro used Hardening on his Swords to protect against the explosion, nothing new..

I don't think Pica covered his armor, only his body..

Hyogoro didn't teach internal destruction to Luffy he couldn't, he thought him CoA Barrier.. You're confusing things..

Why do I have to prove anything to you? You are the one who is taking things for granted and accusing others of not knowing how to read and being biased without any proof.

Even so, I have no problem showing it to you with images and texts taken from the manga, although as always I assume that you will ignore them because well, it seems that you have the absolute truth and what Oda says doesn't matter.

Rayleigh: "The busoshoku haki. This power is like an invisible armor... If the armor is strong enough it can be used to attack... The busoshoku haki is the key to counterattacking those who have eaten the devil fruit."

To start, CoA is defined as invisible armor at its most basic level. So, anyone who has shown the ability to attack with it can use it as a barrier.

There you can see how Zoro has his fists black when he blackens his swords.

And here how Vergo and Smoker blacken their weapons and his arms.

Also, Zoro must have used full body CoA to escape that explosion unscathed. As you will understand, covering yourself with swords alone cannot contain the consequences of an explosion. Also, Zoro says that he used CoA to protect himself, not his swords.

And finally, Hyogoro did teach internal damage to Luffy. Luffy says that he wants to learn to hit without touching:

Luffytarou: "It's not that I want to stop them!! I want to throw a punch that hits without touching!!
Then I think I will be able to break Kaidou's tough scales...!!"

Hyou: "A long time ago… I learned it from a “teacher”.
Although I don't know if I'll be able to show it to you.
Just take a look!
Hah… hah…
What you were trying to do...
If THIS is…
Maybe I can help you a little...!!"

Luffytarou: "Oh!!
Teach me please!!!
THAT'S what I was looking for~~~!!!"

And also, we see how Luffy learns to hit without touching, like Hyogoro did with the Alpacaman.

As always, I am giving you clear and concise words and images. Without your own interpretations like you do.

 

[Sandro]

The headcannon is to claim that you can get the no touch effect when combining ACoA.

This is not a headcanon, this is the outcome of events based on the principles of Occam's razor. We have already been shown that it is possible to combine different types of control hacks and use them separately, such as emission and internal destruction. As for acoc, we were told that this is an opportunity to infuse things with coc. If you assume that using acoc makes it possible not to touch when we have examples that contradict this and when we have been clearly told what acoc is, then this is a violation of Occam's razor principle.

Manga and SBS is directly Oda words. Vivre Cards are not. From time to time vivre cards are proved wrong and has to be fixed.

Just because the Vivre Cards are wrong doesn't mean they aren't canon, the manga had many more errors and was similarly corrected with new volumes, and in some cases no errors were corrected at all. Oda refers to the Vivre cards as a source of additional information and is their author. If you want to prove that they are not canon, you will have to look up Oda's words about it.

Official site of Vivre cards corrections

Luffy's Vivre card also confirms that untouchable blow can be combined with acoc.

Luffy has finally grasped the secret of "Haki". It is the 「Untouchable Blow」clad in "Color of The Supreme King" which is possible only for those of exceptional strength.(Vivre Card)
​

And again the SBS doesn't confirms to be CoC coating attack.

If you think they just used coc, then okay, but that's completely pointless because it doesn't enhance the attack in any way.

 

[Herrera95]

This is not a headcanon, this is the outcome of events based on the principles of Occam's razor. We have already been shown that it is possible to combine different types of control hacks and use them separately, such as emission and internal destruction. As for acoc, we were told that this is an opportunity to infuse things with coc. If you assume that using acoc makes it possible not to touch when we have examples that contradict this and when we have been clearly told what acoc is, then this is a violation of Occam's razor principle.

Idk wtf this principle is.

We never saw Lufft attacks not touching unless he used CoC coating. Same about Kaido(I'd say he only used no touching when clashing Luffy) and Big Mom. Law only points out that Luffy attacks are not touching when he uses CoC coating.

There was never said you could use CoA emission along with Internal destruction. They are different things. Luffy is using only internal destruction touching never mo touching.

Just because the Vivre Cards are wrong doesn't mean they aren't canon

Case closed. Can't argue with someone that says that.

 

[Sandro]

Idk wtf this principle is.

"Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity"

We never saw Lufft attacks not touching unless he used CoC coating.

You're either lying or haven't read the manga

No touching + internal destruction, without acoc​

Luffy is using only internal destruction touching never mo touching.

You're either lying or haven't read the manga

internal destruction with touch​

Case closed. Can't argue with someone that says that.

Here you are simply avoiding the answer, the manga also contains errors and is being corrected in the same way, but you consider it canon, and you do not consider the Vivre Cards canon, although Oda himself says to use them as a source of additional information

 

[Herrera95]

You're either lying or haven't read the manga

No touching + internal destruction, without acoc​

Ok I never realized how it was actually not touching while using internal damage too. I always thought he was doing the touching internal damage as showed in this image and while destroying collars.

 

[Sandro]

Ok I never realized how it was actually not touching while using internal damage too. I always thought he was doing the touching internal damage as showed in this image and while destroying collars.

It's good that you understood this

 

[Galahad]

Idk wtf this principle is.

We never saw Lufft attacks not touching unless he used CoC coating. Same about Kaido(I'd say he only used no touching when clashing Luffy) and Big Mom. Law only points out that Luffy attacks are not touching when he uses CoC coating.

There was never said you could use CoA emission along with Internal destruction. They are different things. Luffy is using only internal destruction touching never mo touching.


Case closed. Can't argue with someone that says that.

Kaido from what we have seen, does not know internal damage and therefore hit without touching. Dee actually says that he is a strange Haki. Kaido's attacks only have the effect of hitting without touching when two AdvCoC attacks collide.

"Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity"



You're either lying or haven't read the manga

No touching + internal destruction, without acoc​

You're either lying or haven't read the manga

internal destruction with touch​

Here you are simply avoiding the answer, the manga also contains errors and is being corrected in the same way, but you consider it canon, and you do not consider the Vivre Cards canon, although Oda himself says to use them as a source of additional information

On the subject of the Vivre Card. In the end it is material that Oda has not done and no matter how much they say that she has supervision of it, it is nothing more than a marketing strategy. Of course, many times there are good data, because they are taken directly from the manga, but there are also many mistakes and very big ones.

It is better to take only black and white manga, SBS, covers and color spread as canon.

The rest only as extra information, never as a premise.

 

[Herrera95]

Kaido from what we have seen, does not know internal damage and therefore hit without touching. Dee actually says that he is a strange Haki. Kaido's attacks only have the effect of hitting without touching when two AdvCoC attacks collide.

Kaido does know how to hit without touching because he knows how to coat his weapon. But I guess this effect doesn't happen when using weapon then? Only when clashing...

 

[Sandro]

In the end it is material that Oda has not done and no matter how much they say that she has supervision of it, it is nothing more than a marketing strategy.

This is just your assumption, since Oda talks about them as a source of additional information and is their author.

but there are also many mistakes and very big ones.

Which for example? All errors in Vivre cards are corrected and displayed on the official website. If I try to find errors in the Vivre cards, I will hardly be able to find them. If I try to find errors in the manga, then all I need to do is open the battle in Marineford where they are in almost every chapter. In the picture with the dead Whitebeard standing (one of the most iconic moments in One Piece), he doesn’t even have a wound from Squard, all this passed the editors checks and was not corrected even in the new volumes.

 

[Rootbeer]

Enduring the attack is fine but that does not mean he "clashed" with Zoro LOL. He got cut no mind no body stop spouting bullshit lol
here have this link again read it : https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/clash

Haki being Physical or Mental matters not. Because in order to clash mentally aka CoC vs CoC like Luffy vs Katakuri u need both of them to use the same thing. Physical Clash means both users are using Physical Haki to Clash.

Learn the definition of a Clash : https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/clash

And no Lucci's had no reaction to manifest in trails LMAO. Stop saying shit out of nowhere. Lucci got cut went white eyed that means he got overwhelmed and off guard for not being able to react in time. So yea trails are Zoro's only

try again

Kaido let Zoro cut him so there was no clash just like how lucci couldn't react in time and got cut but this time Zoro knows how to use haki better = Trails are Zoro's

Scabbards panel is also not a clash look at Kaido's face he was simply "cut" the trails are the combined efforts of the scabbards attack Kaido let them he said so too. Which means Trails are Zoro's

Try again

Has your opinion changed of it being a Haki clash since Lucci withstood the attack?.. Or you're still biased..