Phantom Troupe vs Pitou (Multiple Rounds)

Kung-Fu Dugong · Jan 30, 2025

Yes, he was freshly born but you must take into consideration that Pitou was a genius with base stats much higher and nen pool much bigger than humans. He already awakened with nen and with a lot of knowledge that only full-fledged professionais would have (e.g.: neurosurgeon knowledge). In the same day of his birth, he created his first hatsu, it's not like he was just a regular baby.

If you read again the same chapter you mentioned (#198), you'll se why Kaito had his arm lopped off. I'm not saying that it would be a different result if he was alone, but Pitou had such a great impression of Kaito that he developed Doctor Blythe exclusively to "fix" him just to fight him again (chapter #200).

It's a fact, Kaito, with only one arm, managed to hold his own against Pitou long enough for Killua to flee all the way to the border of NGL (see chapters #188, #189 and the chapter of the scan you posted, #199).

Although the length of the fight isn't shown, Killua could at least run away 2 kilometers, outside of Pitou's en range (and Pitou couldn't concentrate enough to keep trailing his path). If Pitou had one-shotted Kaito, he could easily go after Killua shortly after. Everything indicates that Kaito has kept himself up pretty well for a good time.

The extermination team was confident that they could beat Pitou + 2 other RGs supposedly similar to him + the king, who was supposedly even stronger. Morel was confident enough to assign both Gon and Killua to Pitou (chapter #223). And a part of this team (5 of them) got close to beating Youpi (they just didn't beat him because Knuckle wanted to save Morel).

Welkin · Saturday at 5:01 PM

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

No one's saying anything against any of this. I know Pitou was born with incredible base stats and intelligence that's not the point I'm making

I didn't say Pitou was nenless I said Pitou was a nen infant which is objectively true. Pitou didn't even fully understand the basics of nen until sometime after their battle

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Pitou is a specialist that's pretty much how they work. Half of them have their abilities randomly created based on their personalities and their desires

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

And I posted a panel showing that Pitou canonically held back against Kite. She could've leapt at him twice as fast as she did

She just didn't feel a sense of urgency so she held back. No one's saying Kite is a weak or unimpressive fighter. All I said was he got stomped by Pitou who at that point was an absolute rookie in terms of nen which is true

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Kite gave her a cut on the cheek and Pitou lopped his head off. It wasn't a close fight in any way shape or form

He managed to hold her off for a decent amount of time but he didn't do anything besides that. Mind you, this was against a Pitou that was far inferior to the Pitou we see at the end of the arc

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

The whole point is that they judged the RG's and Mereum incorrectly

They had no idea how strong Mereum + the RG were until they fought them

They worked with what they had but they admitted that they severely underestimated the RG

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

The narrator said that she could've killed Gon almost instantly even with a broken arm

She wasn't willing to take the risk because she was worried about Komugi

Ikalgo knowing how strong Pitou is went on to say this

Plus the panel you posted is referring to Pitou without using nen trying to kill Gon

There's a night and day difference between the 2

This is Pitou with nen getting ready to kill Gon

This is without mentioning that pretty much every single feat we've seen from Pitou is with her not activating Terphiscora which allows her to attack in an instant (less than a second) after activating it

With Terphiscora active Pitou would sweep through the Phantom Troupe in seconds

Dragon777 · Saturday at 5:08 PM

Lose 1 maybe

Win 2 and 3

Kung-Fu Dugong · Saturday at 8:50 PM

Welkin said:

You must've skipped most of the CA arc. The chimera ants were biologically made with the DNA of the previous races they consumed, they have the DNA and sometimes the memories (not just of the previous life, but sometimes of the skills too) of past preys. That's why Pitou was able to do so much with so little time, he was born a Royal Guard of human (and nen) fed Chimera Ants.

None that I can remember of was born with nen and could create a hatsu in the same day of birth (plus, Pitou had 3 different hatsus, unlike any other confirmed specialist in the series). Not Chrollo. Not Kurapika. Not Tserriednich. It isn't because Pitou was a greater genius than them, the chimera ants were designed to be like that, it's written in their DNA to be like that.

So? Underestimating opponents is actually a fault, this will certainly count against Pitou in a nen battle against 10+ formidable nen users.

Pitou isn't a rookie like HA arc Gon or Killua, as I explained above.

I don't think that he was far inferior to the version that Gon fought. Killua could react to post-mortem Terpsichora Pitou, the Phantom Troupe would be able to do something similar.

I never said it was close fight. Kaito was run over, no doubt, but he did what he could do pretty well, specially as a conjurer (one of the worst nen types for combat). If he were with stronger companions, the result could've been different.

Netero didn't underestimate them. That's why he had the Rose surgically implanted on his chest, in the case he couldn't defeat the King. He just didn't inform the rest of the team, but he was confident enough to leave the 3 RGs to them (at least until he could beat the King or ultimately use the bomb to end them all).

Gon wouldn't be able to deal with Pitou, I'm aware of that. But with help, I'm pretty sure that he would be able to make Pitou run for his money (which was the original idea).

Netero could fully react to it and even joked about it. It had so much impact on him that he just swatted Pitou away to deal with the King. Zeno saw it all and didn't make any remark about it, only Meruem had truly impressed him. Terpischora isn't a godly ability as you like to portray, a distracted Killua could deal with it, others with more ability and experience than him would be able to handle it too.

(Before you say that Killua used Whirlwind to do this, it's automatic and only for reacting/countering, so he most likely only used Speed of Lightning.)

Then, there's something you didn't address: Youpi was also on the verge of losing against Knuckle, Shoot, Morel, Meleoron and Killua. It's a fact, it's in the manga (plus, Youpi's a transmuter, so he's more apt for battle and hits harder than Pitou, if we consider that they have similar strength). Unless you consider Pitou to be vastly superior to Youpi, you can't be serious when you say that the troupe would be annihilated in seconds.

Welkin · Saturday at 10:56 PM

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

What did I say to refute any of this? I said Pitou is a nen infant therefore they have little experience with nen which is an objective truth

Yes, they have a headstart due to their lineage. They are still a beginner with nen relative to how skilled they are by the end of the arc lol

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

None of them were born with the ability to use nen so how would they manifest an ability? Not to mention I didn't say anything to refute this. I strictly stated that manifesting your own ability is something specialist tend to do

Neon didn't create her ability, Tserriednich didn't create his ability, etc

I also never claimed that Pitou was an ordinary person. You can go through all of my messages and you won't see me implying that anywhere

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Pitou was a rookie relative to their age/experience. Did Mereum remain stagnant after he was born or did his experiences make him stronger?

Chimera Ants are capable of even faster growth than any human. Pitou was a rookie in the sense that they had just been born and hadn't experienced anything themselves

I didn't mean it in a literal sense. I didn't think you'd interpret it that way either

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

This isn't Pitou playing around though. This is a bloodlusted Pitou with the intent to kill against the Phantom Troupe

Unless you want to gimp her on purpose because they'd get stomped otherwise

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Killua reacted and failed to do anything in time. I don't see how that's a point in their favor

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Against Pitou in their first fight with no hatsu

You can't compare them to end of CA Pitou

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

His confidence had nothing to do with it though. The whole point of the mission is they're going into it knowing there's a very real chance they could die.

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Ikalgo literally says even if the entire team were to attack Pitou together they wouldn't come close to beating her

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Someone that's stronger than Pitou was able to react to her attack and counter? Is this supposed to be an anti feat? Netero is also capable of soloing the Phantom Troupe

I'd also give him the edge over Pitou in a straight fight

This doesn't change Pitou's ability to solo the troupe

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

How did Killua deal with an ability that wasn't targeting him? He tried to move Gon out of the way in time and failed

What about that screams "dealing with it" to you?

Not to mention Killua even with Godspeed wasn't fast enough to get Gon out of the way in time. Imagine how poorly other significantly slower characters would fare

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

1. Fights in Hunter x Hunter are (to a degree) matchup based. Youpi and Pitou aren't the same people and they don't fight the exact same way

2. The Invasion Team and the Phantom Troupe aren't the same. They don't have the same skillsets, experience, mindsets, etc. All of which can completely change the course of a fight

In a fight against Pitou none of the Troupe members have abilities that could severely harm or incapacitate Pitou realistically. No, Pitou isn't stupid enough to let Phinks wind his arm 7000 times. Pretty much every other attack you can think of would literally do 0 damage or wouldn't land to begin with

If Pitou lunges at the Troupe at full speed (so twice as fast as the moment where she leapt at Kite) she's killing at least one person. Then she proceeds to mow the rest of them down and that's the end of that

Kung-Fu Dugong · Sunday at 12:39 AM

Welkin said:

Pitou learned about the nen catogories and principles from Pokkle. Considering that he was a close-range fighter, it was more than enough to assume that he was already with a good strength, not that far behind his palace self. For example, his en was still 2 kilometers after at least a few months passing since he was born. Pitou probably didn't train at all.

Exact, that's why Pitou can't be considered a "rookie" or a "nen infant"... you make it seem like he was comparable to a human beginner. From what we saw in the manga, the Chimera Ants might even be born with their full potential unlocked already.

If not for Komugi, he would. Besides his strategic mind, his hatsu makes him able to learn the hatsus of nen users he eats, so he probably learned the hatsu of the East Gorteau Nen-using Soldier, but that's it.

Pitou (probably) wasn't a rookie in any sense. He already knew everything he knew at the end of the arc at his first hours of life (he just didn't develop the hatsus), so the palace Pitou is also a rookie by those standards, despite having 3 hatsus already.

Okay, so I guess it'll be a bloodlusted Pitou (outside of character btw) against a braindead troupe...

The OP didn't determined any of this. I'll consider what was shown in the manga.

He didn't do anything important, he just saved Gon's life...😂

(Unless you think that post-mortem Pitou was aiming for his arm.)

It's comparable. He has the same en and probably the same strength. No training was shown whatsoever.

If you go back to the chapter (#300), you'll see that Ikalgo was referring to him, Killua and Palm. A reasonable assumption. Also, this translation might be wrong, he's probably talking about the possibility of Gon losing and the team getting wiped out if they stood with him (Mangadex's translation makes more sense, as Killua was considering the possibility of Gon beating Pitou alone and, in the worst-case scenario, they would jump in to help him in time).

Is he? When Netero showed his aura to Colt, he guessed that a RG would be enough to beat Netero. Outside of a brief encounter with Pitou, we never saw Netero facing any of the RGs to say that he would be able to beat any of them. I also believe that he would be able to, but it's completely a headcanon.

Was Zeno also stronger than Pitou? 'Cause he was completely unfazed by him (and he saw everything, he even mentions Netero's 100-Type Guanyin Bodhisattva as something to look out for). And well, he AND Silva couldn't kill Chrollo when they met, so...

The manga doesn't show anything near this. The RGs had trouble with the Extermination Team, they would have deep trouble with the troupe too.

Pitou was closer to Gon, yet Killua was still able to save his life. I'll ask you again: was post-mortem Pitou just aiming for his arm?

They're of the same class (RGs), both combatants (unlike Pouf), so they're comparable in strength. It's the best we have in terms of comparation and all we can do to ground a guess about a fight that never happened or will never happen.

You're right, the troupe has more numbers, MUCH more skillsets (Chrollo alone might've more hatsus than the entire extermination team), more experience than most of the team, better mindsets than most of them also.

In my opinion:

Would be able to incapacitate Pitou (permanently or for a time):
Fun Fun Cloth (permanently);
Bungee Gum;
Nen Stitches;
Battle Cantabile: Prologue.

Would be able to severely hurt or kill Pitou:
Sun and Moon;
Pain Packer: Rising Sun (can kill IMO);
Ripper Cyclotron (can kill IMO);
Big Bang Impact;
Battle Cantabile: Jupiter;
Blinky (can kill IMO).

And we don't even know the full extent of the troupe members' abilities.

Welkin · Sunday at 5:00 AM

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

En is something that has to be worked on specifically though. Your En isn't relative to your overall strength levels

If that were the case then Phinks (who canonically is pathetic when it comes to his ability to use En) or Nobunaga would be significantly weaker than Zeno

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

You're taking what I'm saying far too literal. Was Pitou a literal nen infant? Of course not

I'm referring to their skill with nen before/during their fight with Kite to their proficiency after the fight

Going from no Hatsu to having a Hatsu is already a big gap. Pitou had multiple new nen abilities by the end of the arc

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Not too sure about this one. From what we've seen they all seem capable of growth

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

It wasn't just Komugi though. He had matches with other world champions and won within a few games showcasing his mental development

Every other ant should be capable of this (growth) on a smaller scale. Intelligence is a big part of battle within Hunter x Hunter

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

I'd say going from being Hatsuless to having 3 Hatsus is a pretty significant jump but maybe that's just me lol

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

In what way is it out of character? You're using Pitou who was testing out their strength soon after they were born when we should be using serious Pitou from the end of CA

That would be like using Gon and taking his mental state from when he was still on Whale Island and using it to scale. Characters are capable of changing. Pitou wasn't as serious before the King was born

After the king is born Pitou's devotion nearly changed her entire personality

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Where did I imply they would be braindead? The original poster also didn't say anything about them getting prep time either

If they're dropped into a room and the fight just starts they die instantly. We're only using what the OP says right?

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Fair enough, but that's still Speed of Lightning Killua moving too slow to get him completely out of the way

Unless you think there's a troupe member that can move faster than Killua I hardly see the point of mentioning it

If anything all it does is add to Pitou's AP feats. She took Adult Gon's arm off in one hit

Nobody in the PT is taking a single hit from her and surviving

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Explained this in an earlier post. En =/= Strength

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Mangastream (the translations used on Mangadex) have incredibly unreliable translations. Just look at their OP translations over the years. I'm taking the official translations over them personally

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

And Ikalgo says that even with himself, Killua, and Palm backing him up they wouldn't stand a chance in hell. Heavily implying that it wouldn't even be a close fight.

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Aura is an inaccurate way of scaling in canon, no? The extermination team has less raw aura combined than Youpi alone but according to you they came close to defeating him

Raw aura isn't a good way to powerscale

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

What does Zeno's reaction have to do with strength though? He was unfazed... and?

He was unfazed by Chrollo who, according to you, couldn't be killed by Silva and Zeno

Are reactions meant to be a fully reliable indicator of strength?

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

In a flashback without context

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

The extermination team had prep as well as the best abilities possible for the operation. Replace Perfect Plan/God's Accomplice with almost any other hatsu in the series and they fail instantly

The PT doesn't have anything that comes close to that. Plus (at least according to you) the OP didn't say anything about prep so we're supposed to assume both parties are dropped into the situation with little to no intel or time to plan. They go from losing to not even having a chance without prep time

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Yes, Killua with significantly boosted movement speed was able to save Gon. Who else in the Phantom Troupe can move nearly as fast? Name one person

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

They have more numbers, correct

More abilities =/= useful abilities in the same scenario

Half of the PT abilities are completely useless against Pitou

Not to mention literally all of them pale in comparison to Perfect Plan/God's Accomplice. Again, replace Meleoron with literally any other member of the Phantom Troupe and the plan fails instantly.

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

Morel, Knov, Knuckle >

Kung-Fu Dugong said:

- Fun Fun Cloth didn't work against Silva and Zeno it's never hitting Pitou
- Bungee Gum and Nen Stitches would never land. She canonically has access to Gyo even if they try to hide it with In
- Prologue takes time to use and can be interrupted. Also... the Ant that Bono fought tanked an attack from it with no problem. Pitou is tanking that in her sleep

- Sun and Moon requires far too much setup to be useful against someone as fast as Pitou
- Useless since Feitan can't take a hit from her at all. He gets oneshot
- Never landing unless you think Pitou lets Phinks stand there and wind his arm up a million times
- Uvogin's Big Bang Impact at full power did this little damage to Kurapika and you think it would severely damage Pitou?

I'd be surprised if Pitou noticed Uvogin hit her at all

- Jupiter also takes time to activate and can be interrupted. Unless you think Pitou's gonna sit there and let Bonolevov bust a move real quick
- Blinky would only work if Pitou literally just sat there and let her blood be drained. Assuming she gets to use it at all, the blood sucking gives her a direct line to Shizuku. She's getting her head knocked off instantly.

Uvogin was being outmaneuvered in close combat by Kurapika and you think any of them could be within 1000 feet of her without dying instantly

Literally nothing you listed would work realistically. Especially if they don't get prep time. As soon as they get within range it's over

Kung-Fu Dugong · Sunday at 1:32 PM

Welkin said:

The thing is, en is one of Pitou's greatest strengths (maybe his best ability). If it didn't evolve in a few months, why would anything else?

Terpsichora is a big powerup indeed. But outside of this, his base stats were the same IMO.

They can train to become stronger/more skillful, but none besides the King apparently did it. Maybe it's a thing that the CAs are so powerful that they don't feel the urge of training (they grow according to their experiences).

He did beat them pretty fast, I think that only Komugi was able to push him further. Even then, beating world champions in anything within a few minutes/hours shows that the King had already a full developed brain, better than any human's (capable of growth indeed, but only shown growing by experience).

Yeah, but only Terpsichora is relevant to battles. The lack of long range attacks is also a huge flaw when facing multiple opponents.

Pitou was a laid-back individual, even after the King was born. The two times he got bloodlusted was only when the King was directly threatened: (1) when Netero and Zeno hid their presences during Dragon Dive; (2) when Gon boosted his power.

I'm assuming that Meruem isn't in the picture here, so I'll consider that the troupe is facing the regular Pitou.

You're implying it when you say that, if Phinks starts rotating his arm, Pitou will insta kill him. If Shizuku uses Blinky, Pitou will insta kill her. It's like there won't be another (at least) 10 other opponents against him.

If they're dropped in a room, then Pitou would be done easily if Chrollo is with them. He wouldn't be able to escape from Fun Fun Cloth. As for the other rounds, the troupe would be in deep trouble indeed, but I'm still not sure if they'll lose. We don't even truly know how capable of hurting Pitou they would be... Nobunaga, for example, might able to cut him. IMHO, most troupe members wouldn't be one-shotted by Pitou.

They don't need to move faster, they just need to be able to react to Pitou. I'm not saying that they'll be unharmed, I'm just saying that, like Kaito, they'll be able square off with Pitou long enough for Phinks, Shizuku, et. al. to damage him.

As enhancers, Uvo and Phinks might be able to. Chrollo can defend himself and others with Fun Fun Cloth. Hisoka can probably hinder Pitou to prevent fatal damage (against himself or someone else). And so on...

As I said, Pitou's en is one of his main abilities... if he didn't train it, it's unlikely that he trained anything else.

Mangadex's translation makes more sense than the mangareader version (a very unreliable translation too) in this case. It doesn't make sense for Ikalgo to conclude that they have no chance at all when Killua expressely says otherwise in the previous page. (Unfortunately I can't post it here, but you know where to find it if you wish to check it out.)

Another thing to note is that Killua only goes after Gon when Palm notices that the things are going downhill in Peijin. Pitou even heals his arm before attacking a crying Gon. Killua believes that Gon will be able to hold his own until he arrives there.

It is, that's why I think that Netero would be able to beat any of the RGs. But it's still a headcanon to have Netero above Pitou when we never saw them fight.

It isn't according to me, it's according to the manga. Zeno and Silva failed to kill Chrollo in time (they could've killed him if the fight lasted longer, but two of the best Zoldycks were needed for this... Zeno even hints that Chrollo would be able to beat him in a 1v1). Zeno was even willing to sacrifice his own life for Silva to finish Chrollo, he wasn't unfazed.

Chrollo even considered stealing their abilities, but soon noticed that he wouldn't be able...😂

It's in context with the experience he had in the Royal Palace of East Gorteau.

If they had Chrollo, they would've a much easier time. If a manipulator like Shoot wasn't insta killed by Youpi, Uvogin, Phinks, Hisoka, Feitan and Nobuga wouldn't too, and they would be able to hold their own much better. They wouldn't need invisibilty with someone as Uvo tanking Youpi (Knuckle and Shoot would be able to land their hits better).

They don't need to move as fast as Killua, they just need to react as fast as him.

They did pretty well against the ants who invaded Meteor City and they were doing it 1v1... now it will be 11v1, 12v1 or 13v1.

Perfect Plan/God's Accomplice are fantastic abilities indeed, but they don't come even close to Skill Hunter. With Love Dial 6700 Chrollo would probably even steal many of the ants' abilities (including Meleoron's) before going to the palace, he would be the best asset possible for the extermination team.

Morel and Knov are great, but Knuckle was still an apprentice (a pretty good one, but still below the troupe IMO). Even if you consider all 3 of them better than any troupe member, it's 10+ troupe members we're talking about.

It didn't work against them because they were cautious (and Zeno happens to be the one of the best emitters in the series). It's the perfect ability to deal with a close-range fighter like Pitou. If he comes lunging like he usually does, Chrollo has it in the bag alone.

If Pitou uses Gyo, he'll be vulnerable to attacks. It's not like he'll be facing just Hisoka and Machi.

Well, going back at it I noticed that I wasn't talking about Prologue, I was talking about Bonolenov's sound ability he used before Jupiter (not sure if it was part of Jupiter or not). The ant Bono faced had trouble attacking him due to it, so it has a hindering effect. As it's sound, Pitou wouldn't be able to escape it. Unless he fled or pierced his own eardrums (I'm not sure if the latter would help though), but I'm not sure if he'll have time to think about it or even the opportunity to do it when getting ganged up by 11 people.

I agree, it would be too much risk for little reward.

I disagree, I think that he can. If he manages to evade and gets disarmed, for example, it would be probably worse for Pitou, as an even more powerful Pain Packer ability would come out.

Pitou will be facing all of them, it's in the OP. It's not like he'll let Phinks rotate his arm, he might not be able to prevent it.

It's Emperor Time Kurapika with enhancement nen... even then, he had his arm shattered. Pitou is a specialist, so his enhancement nen is somewhat weak (even if he can compesate with his immense strength/durability), he would surely be hurt.

Again, he'll be facing 10+ opponents.

Kurapika is one of the most talented nen users in the series. He also gets a great physical boost with Emperor Time too.

Why Pitou didn't move? Can you post the left panels? Can you take a look at the panels of Killua confident at Gon holding his own with Pitou in Peijin?

Ultra · Monday at 10:17 PM

Pitou wins all 3 rounds, most of the troupe had decent difficulty with soldier ants. They stand a better chance with prep time between their teamwork and all their abilities available including Chrollo's potential abilities, but without a plan not sure what they can do to even hurt her