Powers & Abilities So it is no problem for these characters to have CoC, but for some reason it is a problem for these guys
- Thread starter DarkWitch
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We have 7 Admirals total in story: Sengoku, Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Fujitora, Ryokugyu and Koby (future). Those are certain at least.
Sengoku Is confirmed.
Akainu and Fuji you said are cartain, and I agree. I think we can add Koby too.
Kuzan for me Is sure, having fought ten days with Akainu, in that double spread too, but anyway.
That leaves Ryo, which for you Is a maybe, and you say Kizaru Is a no.
So, you think Oda has in his mind 5 Admirals markedly stronger and 2/1 B class Admirals markedly weaker than the rest?
Lol at trying to compare Lolden's case, which is completley headcanon, with this.
Sengoku Is confirmed.
Akainu and Fuji you said are cartain, and I agree. I think we can add Koby too.
Kuzan for me Is sure, having fought ten days with Akainu, in that double spread too, but anyway.
That leaves Ryo, which for you Is a maybe, and you say Kizaru Is a no.
So, you think Oda has in his mind 5 Admirals markedly stronger and 2/1 B class Admirals markedly weaker than the rest?
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Lol at trying to compare Lolden's case, which is completley headcanon, with this.
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Zoro was pursing WSS, already had made a name for himself on his own and had more infamy than Luffy in EB, had some dudes following him, and killed Mr 6 (IIRC). By the time he joined up with Luffy.
And said to Luffy to his face that he would kill him if he stood in the way of his goals.
Nah it isn't. If you think it's 99% agenda driven, it's probably based because you've been playing in the agenda mud for too long lol.
I don't think it's agenda driven, but factual, to argue that Oda himself has played into the persona and ambitions of conquerors several times in the series. But he also isn't playing into this line of thinking a 100%, Koby is a great example here.
This was my take on the topic in the spoiler discussions.
It's the persona and ambitions narrative that was used by those who pushed Zoro to have conqueror's haki, not parallels or anything; this was before there was even any direct powerscaling implication here (for a decade+ conqueror's haki was simply fodder control and just indicated potential).
Just to address the OP meanwhile, Jinbe and definitely Ussop of course shouldn't have conqueror's haki. Jinbe is a 46 years old veteran, too late for that. Ussop especially having it would be dogshit writing and kill the entire thing, might be a drop worthy event even.
Coming to admirals.
It's a case by case basis with admirals. I'd say Akainu, Aokiji and Fujitora would be in sync with the "persona" narraive as well. While Kizaru is a mixed bag (leaning towards no for me), and Greenbull is heavily leaning no.
Issue is that there is no indication that any admirals have it, so far. That should however not be used as a confirmation that admirals won't or can't have it obviously, esp the 3 I mentioned above.
And there is a powerscaling argument also here, in that admirals have such insanely powerful DFs that they don't need advanced conqueror's haki to reach top tier as well, but that has zero relation to the persona arguments of course.
I'm not a fan of Sanji having conqueror's haki either, due to the persona narrative. Nothing to do with powerscaling, Oda can always upgrade his fire powers and exoskeletons as needed to made Sanji close to Zoro in power.
However, if Koby can have conqueror's haki (it isn't 100% confirmed yet but honesty impact might have been advanced conqueror's), I see no reason Sanji can't.
Zoro was pursing WSS, already had made a name for himself on his own and had more infamy than Luffy in EB, had some dudes following him, and killed Mr 6 (IIRC). By the time he joined up with Luffy.
And said to Luffy to his face that he would kill him if he stood in the way of his goals.
The reason for admirals and sanji not getting is not based on story or being mad oda for being at "rules of coc" for the 99% but on agenda
if you made 1 million post on them not getting coc and wrote haki desertation you obviosuly gonna get clowned on
This is also one of the rare agenda brainrot things that goes beyond this forum this is a point where probally most of the powerscaling fandom would take their biggest L
Remeber couple years ago people were saying YC 1 = admiral and Ling = Eos sanji
People memory holed that shit because how stupid that is
if you made 1 million post on them not getting coc and wrote haki desertation you obviosuly gonna get clowned on
This is also one of the rare agenda brainrot things that goes beyond this forum this is a point where probally most of the powerscaling fandom would take their biggest L
Remeber couple years ago people were saying YC 1 = admiral and Ling = Eos sanji
People memory holed that shit because how stupid that is
I don't think it's agenda driven, but factual, to argue that Oda himself has played into the persona and ambitions of conquerors several times in the series. But he also isn't playing into this line of thinking a 100%, Koby is a great example here.
This was my take on the topic in the spoiler discussions.
It's the persona and ambitions narrative that was used by those who pushed Zoro to have conqueror's haki, not parallels or anything; this was before there was even any direct powerscaling implication here (for a decade+ conqueror's haki was simply fodder control and just indicated potential).
Just to address the OP meanwhile, Jinbe and definitely Ussop of course shouldn't have conqueror's haki. Jinbe is a 46 years old veteran, too late for that. Ussop especially having it would be dogshit writing and kill the entire thing, might be a drop worthy event even.
Coming to admirals.
It's a case by case basis with admirals. I'd say Akainu, Aokiji and Fujitora would be in sync with the "persona" narraive as well. While Kizaru is a mixed bag (leaning towards no for me), and Greenbull is heavily leaning no.
Issue is that there is no indication that any admirals have it, so far. That should however not be used as a confirmation that admirals won't or can't have it obviously, esp the 3 I mentioned above.
And there is a powerscaling argument also here, in that admirals have such insanely powerful DFs that they don't need advanced conqueror's haki to reach top tier as well, but that has zero relation to the persona arguments of course.
I'm not a fan of Sanji having conqueror's haki either, due to the persona narrative. Nothing to do with powerscaling, Oda can always upgrade his fire powers and exoskeletons as needed to made Sanji close to Zoro in power.
However, if Koby can have conqueror's haki (it isn't 100% confirmed yet but honesty impact might have been advanced conqueror's), I see no reason Sanji can't.
The WSS is also not someone who rules over anything, even insofar as he's apart of the three great powers, Zoro shouldn't have been in the east blue as an adult if he was looking for Mihawk, since Mihawk only stopped by in the east blue to chase Don Krieg, he should have been in the grandline at least, since that's where Mihawk is generally at. Keep in mind, Zoro is older then Luffy, and yet he needed Luffy to take the initiative to travel the world and fight actual strong opponents
Just as pirate king doesn't rule over anyone.
It is the implication. WSS stands above all swordsmen as the strongest, just like pirate king stands above all pirates as the most free.
Zoro couldn't travel not because he didn't try or didn't have initiative, but because he got lost due to bad directions sense. Dude literally said it in the first few episodes IIRC.
It is the implication. WSS stands above all swordsmen as the strongest, just like pirate king stands above all pirates as the most free.
Zoro couldn't travel not because he didn't try or didn't have initiative, but because he got lost due to bad directions sense. Dude literally said it in the first few episodes IIRC.
Yeah, Luffy and Roger don't necessarily want to rule over a anyone, but at the end of the day they kind of did. Luffy got thousands of pirates following him after Dressrosa, in name he conquered Wano, and challenged BM for FMI.
And yeah, Zoro was kind of stuck because he has a bad sense of direction obviously, but that's why I see Luffy as the only characters deserving COC in the SHP. He convinced a navigator to work for him
he's essentially Luffys rhm/VC
This opens the criteria up too much, does anyone who wants to be the best at something have "kingly ambitions"? Franky wants to build the best ship in the world, but does anyone think that would make him have the same type of ambition as a Doflamingo, who literally took over a country and the black market?
And yeah, Zoro was kind of stuck because he has a bad sense of direction obviously, but that's why I see Luffy as the only characters deserving COC in the SHP. He convinced a navigator to work for him
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he's essentially Luffys rhm/VC
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This opens the criteria up too much, does anyone who wants to be the best at something have "kingly ambitions"? Franky wants to build the best ship in the world, but does anyone think that would make him have the same type of ambition as a Doflamingo, who literally took over a country and the black market?
So they have superficial visual similarities? Is that it? @moreha9685
hmm, kind of like the similarities between Zoro and Ryuma… and yet at the end of the arc, Ryuma was a Luffy parallel despite Zoro being his descendant and looking just like him?
You guys care too much about superficial parallels… Oda could’ve made Zoro the vice captain of the strawhats if he wanted a MEANINGFUL parallel but he didn’t
Oda does this all the time, I even have a thread on this
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/zoro-loki-parallels.62033/
this thread lists like 8 direct parallels between Loki and Zoro (way more parallels than there are between Zoro and Rayleigh) and yet I FUCKING BET NOTHING WILL COME OF IT
I BET MONEY THAT LOKI WILL BE DIRECTLY PARALLELED WITH LUFFY Despite all the Zoro parallels because there’s meaningless parallels and MEANINFUL ONES
hmm, kind of like the similarities between Zoro and Ryuma… and yet at the end of the arc, Ryuma was a Luffy parallel despite Zoro being his descendant and looking just like him?
You guys care too much about superficial parallels… Oda could’ve made Zoro the vice captain of the strawhats if he wanted a MEANINGFUL parallel but he didn’t
Oda does this all the time, I even have a thread on this
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/zoro-loki-parallels.62033/
this thread lists like 8 direct parallels between Loki and Zoro (way more parallels than there are between Zoro and Rayleigh) and yet I FUCKING BET NOTHING WILL COME OF IT
I BET MONEY THAT LOKI WILL BE DIRECTLY PARALLELED WITH LUFFY Despite all the Zoro parallels because there’s meaningless parallels and MEANINFUL ONES
This is a Crew where it's believable that multiple people in it have "kingly ambitions"
WB: doesn't really want to follow Rocks's orders
Shiki: contests Whitebeards more prominent position in the crew
Big Mom: wants to do her goal with little care for the others
Kaido: presumably wants the treasure for himself or something?
It doesn't open up shit.
Zoro wants to be the best at something that actively involves fighting and potentially killing people. That's where the kingly ambition comes in. He wants to physically dominate others, imposing his will over every single swordsman in the world.
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Franky wants to do something that necessitates no external conflict. He can build the ship by himself, sail it across the world by himself, log the journey by himself. To make the best ship, he doesn't need to bash anybody's head in.
Same goes for Chopper: he just wants a cure-all med.
Sanji just wants a sea where all fish are present at once.
Usopp, on the other hand, wants to be a brave warrior of the sea and the best sniper in the world. His dream combines Luffy's and Zoro's. Usopp has all the makings for getting CoC (but his character, as it currently stands, does not deserve it and should by no means get it without massive asspulls from Oda).
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Bite me, you illiterate troll.
Zoro wants to be the best at something that actively involves fighting and potentially killing people. That's where the kingly ambition comes in. He wants to physically dominate others, imposing his will over every single swordsman in the world.
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Franky wants to do something that necessitates no external conflict. He can build the ship by himself, sail it across the world by himself, log the journey by himself. To make the best ship, he doesn't need to bash anybody's head in.
Same goes for Chopper: he just wants a cure-all med.
Sanji just wants a sea where all fish are present at once.
Usopp, on the other hand, wants to be a brave warrior of the sea and the best sniper in the world. His dream combines Luffy's and Zoro's. Usopp has all the makings for getting CoC (but his character, as it currently stands, does not deserve it and should by no means get it without massive asspulls from Oda).
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Bite me, you illiterate troll.
Adding physical dominance just seems arbitrary
Plus, he only really *wants* to beat one swordsman, the one who is considered overall above everyone else. He would thern end up being at the top, but it's not like he is planning on beating every single last swordsman on earth, they would just recognize his strength like any other famous figure.
Regardless if Franky beats up other ship builders, it's still imposing his will through a different form of competition. Just like Kings and emperor's in the past competed through military conflict, in the 20th century, you had two global superpowers competing for reaching the moon first.
Plus, he only really *wants* to beat one swordsman, the one who is considered overall above everyone else. He would thern end up being at the top, but it's not like he is planning on beating every single last swordsman on earth, they would just recognize his strength like any other famous figure.
Regardless if Franky beats up other ship builders, it's still imposing his will through a different form of competition. Just like Kings and emperor's in the past competed through military conflict, in the 20th century, you had two global superpowers competing for reaching the moon first.