Powers & Abilities What if no character does something similar to Ashura in the story?
- Thread starter ImmaIvanoM
- Start date
Yes, but the issue is that Asura is obviously different from DFs. It clearly isn´t a fruit itself, and doesn´t take away the ability to swim. Nothing about the power has been explored at all, nor was there any buildup for it´s usage.
It was just an asspull like the gears and DJ when it came out, so that the SHP could win in EL, and now Oda doesn´t know what to do with it.
It was just an asspull like the gears and DJ when it came out, so that the SHP could win in EL, and now Oda doesn´t know what to do with it.
It may have something special about itself because it is the strongest evolution in the show but it is exactly what a devil fruit is - a manifestation of desire. Both Asura and Devil Fruits are exactly that - manifestations of desire.
I dont know if the original dreamers of each Devil Fruits had the same benefits that Zoro has - no penalty of the sea but the result is ultimately the same, as explained by Vegapunk.
Speaking of Vegapunk, he explained Sun God and you can apply all that to Demon God, word for word. The only difference is that first creator of Sun God is long dead and his ability has turned into a fruit for recirculation while Zoro's Demon God is a first time manifestation and has not yet turned into a fruit for others to eat.
Luffy's gears have been foreshadowing for Luffy's Sun God, the ultimate manipulation of his body.
Sanji's DJ has been foreshadowing for Sanji's source of power, heat.
Zoro's Asura has remained the same, not foreshadowing anything. It was perfect from day one, Zoro lacked in other area - haki.
You have to look at these abilities from EOS perspective, not from Enies Lobby POV...
I dont know if the original dreamers of each Devil Fruits had the same benefits that Zoro has - no penalty of the sea but the result is ultimately the same, as explained by Vegapunk.
Speaking of Vegapunk, he explained Sun God and you can apply all that to Demon God, word for word. The only difference is that first creator of Sun God is long dead and his ability has turned into a fruit for recirculation while Zoro's Demon God is a first time manifestation and has not yet turned into a fruit for others to eat.
Luffy's gears have been foreshadowing for Luffy's Sun God, the ultimate manipulation of his body.
Sanji's DJ has been foreshadowing for Sanji's source of power, heat.
Zoro's Asura has remained the same, not foreshadowing anything. It was perfect from day one, Zoro lacked in other area - haki.
You have to look at these abilities from EOS perspective, not from Enies Lobby POV...
Those desires ended up creating something that exists outside of the people wishing them. The devil fruits are external powers. The people who wished for them did not inherently keep/get them. Asura is different, it´s an internal power that Zoro has, for no real reason.
Which is actually the issue at hand here. Luffy being revealed to being actually the sun god 1000+ chapters into the story ruined his character, by making it hard to take any of his accomplishments seriously, he was destined to do it all since chapter 1. He was no longer just a kid with a dream and funny sounding devil fruit. Zoro being revealed to be the moon god would be the same shit, but possibly even worse since it happened later. Nika was only mentioned once or twice before Luffy got it and it became the most important thing in universe, with the same being true of Zoro and Asura not being mentioned or built up before EL. If Zoro gets a moon god power, no one could take him beating Mihawk seriously, since Mihawk actually worked for everything he had.
Which is actually the issue at hand here. Luffy being revealed to being actually the sun god 1000+ chapters into the story ruined his character, by making it hard to take any of his accomplishments seriously, he was destined to do it all since chapter 1. He was no longer just a kid with a dream and funny sounding devil fruit. Zoro being revealed to be the moon god would be the same shit, but possibly even worse since it happened later. Nika was only mentioned once or twice before Luffy got it and it became the most important thing in universe, with the same being true of Zoro and Asura not being mentioned or built up before EL. If Zoro gets a moon god power, no one could take him beating Mihawk seriously, since Mihawk actually worked for everything he had.
You have no idea that this is true, since we don´t *actually* know the process of how DF´s are made, and nothing about Asura has ever been explained specifically.
Well, let me know if you do, I guess? Though it isn´t really relevant to the point.
How is it not an asspull when Zoro literally didn´t have it in the previous arcs of Skypiea and Arabasta, and randomly gets it in w7?
It´s not a bias thing to say anyway. The gears and DJ also came out of nowhere.
Well, let me know if you do, I guess? Though it isn´t really relevant to the point.
Post automatically merged:
How is it not an asspull when Zoro literally didn´t have it in the previous arcs of Skypiea and Arabasta, and randomly gets it in w7?
It´s not a bias thing to say anyway. The gears and DJ also came out of nowhere.
I am pretty sure I do have an idea and all I said perfectly matches the explanation for Sun God.
Your point is >asspull, >chosen one and so on... You have no idea how right you could be if my theory is right.
As I said, you have to start looking at things from EOS perspective and Enies Lobby has started foreshadowing EOS abilities for Zoro, Sanji and Luffy.
Your point is >asspull, >chosen one and so on... You have no idea how right you could be if my theory is right.
As I said, you have to start looking at things from EOS perspective and Enies Lobby has started foreshadowing EOS abilities for Zoro, Sanji and Luffy.
You are making assumptions, which is fine. But nothing in the manga implies that the external powers of devil fruits were originally internal powers. And if they are, we kind of have a ridiculous situation where OP world people can wish powers into existence and suddenly only Zoro can do so.
Maybe? But all that matters is that it was terrible when Oda did it for Luffy, and will equally be as bad when Zoro is revealed to be the demon moon god blah blah. It´s horrible writing.
EL forshadowed nothing. Luffy pumping blood with his paramacia fruit is completely different then him awakening a special mythical sun god fruit which has it´s mind and will.
Maybe? But all that matters is that it was terrible when Oda did it for Luffy, and will equally be as bad when Zoro is revealed to be the demon moon god blah blah. It´s horrible writing.
EL forshadowed nothing. Luffy pumping blood with his paramacia fruit is completely different then him awakening a special mythical sun god fruit which has it´s mind and will.
And I have an assumption that explains that too. 
Already made a thread about it but I know, I know... >just nik's headcanons...
Zoro is revealed as Demon God since Enies Lobby, there is nothing new about that.
People simply never noticed it because it was named Asura from the beginning.
Even before EL, in Skypiea, we were dropped a name of 4 gods that already existed...
Luffy started manipulating his body in EL and that is indeed a foreshadowing for what G5 is - complete manipulation.
Already made a thread about it but I know, I know... >just nik's headcanons...
Zoro is revealed as Demon God since Enies Lobby, there is nothing new about that.
People simply never noticed it because it was named Asura from the beginning.
Even before EL, in Skypiea, we were dropped a name of 4 gods that already existed...
Luffy started manipulating his body in EL and that is indeed a foreshadowing for what G5 is - complete manipulation.
And I have an assumption that explains that too.
Already made a thread about it but I know, I know... >just nik's headcanons...
.
Already made a thread about it but I know, I know... >just nik's headcanons...
.
And I have an assumption that explains that too.
Already made a thread about it but I know, I know... >just nik's headcanons...
Zoro is revealed as Demon God since Enies Lobby, there is nothing new about that.
People simply never noticed it because it was named Asura from the beginning.
.
Already made a thread about it but I know, I know... >just nik's headcanons...
Zoro is revealed as Demon God since Enies Lobby, there is nothing new about that.
People simply never noticed it because it was named Asura from the beginning.
.
Come on bruh. This is not a serious argument. a ¨Sun god¨ is a pretty common thing in a lot of old cultures, but ¨Nika¨ is a specific thing that was never mentioned in skypia. Nika as the liberator of slaves connected to Luffy was not even mentioned by name until 1000+ chapters into the story. That is insane.
Nah, that´s just Oda building up on past Luffy powers. It isn´t forshadowing.
I already explained that there is a specific reason why powers are no longer wished into existence and all powers were created a long time ago, it has to do with the treasure itself, the One Piece which is the Eternal Flame that gives birth to these powers.
As it says in the Harley, mankind succumbed to greed and touched the forbidden sun.
This greed is desire and the forbidden sun is Eternal Flame, that act created what we know today as Devil Fruits.
Back then, I assume, they all had the same benefits that Zoro has - no penalty of the sea but those who obtained those abilities after them were penalized. The reason why powers arent manifesting in the present is because Eternal Flame is hidden in Raftel, by Joyboy who stole it from Imu who holds it in the mural.
Because nobody knows what Demon God is, even Kaku cant possibly know. Oda simply picked him as a messenger for us, the readers.
As I said, when you look at this from EOS perspective, it is easy to understand why Zoro has something that nobody else has.
All DFs, just like Asura, are manifestations of desire. Demon God is Zoro's manifestation while desiring to be stronger.
That is Zoro's primary desire - strength and Asura is the ultimate embodiment of that. It is the perfect ability that has never been beaten. And when you stack on top of it all the EOS power-ups and end-game haki levels, Demon God truly is an ability befitting the strongest character.
The only question here is why was Zoro able to manifest it without the Eternal Flame and I dont have an answer for that.
People dont understand what Nika is...
Nika = Asura
Sun God = Demon God
Nika is just a name of the Sun God from the 1st world.
Just like Joyboy is a name for the Sun God of the 2nd world.
I suspect that Luffy is both Joyboy and Nika himself, he simply loses memories during a cycle of rebirth.
And it probably isnt even "Luffy" but Laughy. It is pronounced the same way.
Body manipulation is foreshadowing for superior body manipulation if you ask me...
As it says in the Harley, mankind succumbed to greed and touched the forbidden sun.
This greed is desire and the forbidden sun is Eternal Flame, that act created what we know today as Devil Fruits.
Back then, I assume, they all had the same benefits that Zoro has - no penalty of the sea but those who obtained those abilities after them were penalized. The reason why powers arent manifesting in the present is because Eternal Flame is hidden in Raftel, by Joyboy who stole it from Imu who holds it in the mural.
Because nobody knows what Demon God is, even Kaku cant possibly know. Oda simply picked him as a messenger for us, the readers.
As I said, when you look at this from EOS perspective, it is easy to understand why Zoro has something that nobody else has.
All DFs, just like Asura, are manifestations of desire. Demon God is Zoro's manifestation while desiring to be stronger.
That is Zoro's primary desire - strength and Asura is the ultimate embodiment of that. It is the perfect ability that has never been beaten. And when you stack on top of it all the EOS power-ups and end-game haki levels, Demon God truly is an ability befitting the strongest character.
The only question here is why was Zoro able to manifest it without the Eternal Flame and I dont have an answer for that.
People dont understand what Nika is...
Nika = Asura
Sun God = Demon God
Nika is just a name of the Sun God from the 1st world.
Just like Joyboy is a name for the Sun God of the 2nd world.
I suspect that Luffy is both Joyboy and Nika himself, he simply loses memories during a cycle of rebirth.
And it probably isnt even "Luffy" but Laughy. It is pronounced the same way.
Body manipulation is foreshadowing for superior body manipulation if you ask me...
Interesting theory, but obviously I can´t say much about this until it´s confirmed.
Which is the narrative issue. It´s a completely unknown powerup, that no one in verse understands. Allegedly, according to you, this is connected to something from ancient times, and yet nothing has been mentioned connecting Asura to that, nor is even Zoro himself interested in finding out what it is. It´s not treated with any narrative relevance, just a simple powerup for Zoro to beat Kaku.
This just sounds like plot armor. Do you think Zoro is the only character who has wanted power in all of OP? Just like how all the pirates who went to sea looking for treasure´s efforts are pointless since day 1 because they didn´t get chosen by the Nika fruit like Luffy, only Zoro somehow was able to get a powerup for wanting power. Any of the swordsman who spent years training like Mihawk, Oden, Rayleigh, Shanks, Roger, Rocks and Garling? I guess they just didn´t want it enough. The people of GV who were trying just not to be killed by CD´s? I guess they just didn´t want power enough to justify a powerup......
Okay,so even you can´t justify this powerup making logical sense. Clearly it´s an asspull, since your entire premise is contradicted by Asura, as Zoro lacks the eternal flame. Basically, your argument is that Asura is in contradiction of the title of the story itself ¨the one piece¨
Perhaps, but he´s clearly a name many of heard of. Characters constantly name drop him after the reveal, and yet for 1000+ chapters we had never heard anyone mention Nika specifically, nor anyone paying attention to Luffy´s super special fruit.
Which is the narrative issue. It´s a completely unknown powerup, that no one in verse understands. Allegedly, according to you, this is connected to something from ancient times, and yet nothing has been mentioned connecting Asura to that, nor is even Zoro himself interested in finding out what it is. It´s not treated with any narrative relevance, just a simple powerup for Zoro to beat Kaku.
This just sounds like plot armor. Do you think Zoro is the only character who has wanted power in all of OP? Just like how all the pirates who went to sea looking for treasure´s efforts are pointless since day 1 because they didn´t get chosen by the Nika fruit like Luffy, only Zoro somehow was able to get a powerup for wanting power. Any of the swordsman who spent years training like Mihawk, Oden, Rayleigh, Shanks, Roger, Rocks and Garling? I guess they just didn´t want it enough. The people of GV who were trying just not to be killed by CD´s? I guess they just didn´t want power enough to justify a powerup......
Okay,so even you can´t justify this powerup making logical sense. Clearly it´s an asspull, since your entire premise is contradicted by Asura, as Zoro lacks the eternal flame. Basically, your argument is that Asura is in contradiction of the title of the story itself ¨the one piece¨
Perhaps, but he´s clearly a name many of heard of. Characters constantly name drop him after the reveal, and yet for 1000+ chapters we had never heard anyone mention Nika specifically, nor anyone paying attention to Luffy´s super special fruit.