Controversial General Political Discussion

[Zenos7]

Big yikes…even if he’s getting out in front of it, that’s clearly Nazi iconography, not really any mistaking it for something more benign. I’m sure the righties will look the other way like they usually do when it comes to overt bigotry in politics instead of some performative pearl-clutching about respectability or whatever they say to justify why something is only morally wrong when liberals do it

Lmao question then is is he truthful about not knowing beforehand?

Its plausible, if you dont know about it its just another skull, but yeah its pretty much the exact nazi symbol

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:28 PM

Yeah, it's hard to believe that he didn't check. But looking at the way he is coming about it with transparency, I'm willing to give the guy a naivity pass, even if he is still an army boy which doesn't ring a lot of respect for me anyway.

Its not exactly unusual for people to go to a tattoo studio and spontaneously pick something.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:33 PM

That guy lives in his own world. Studying sociology can really turn one insane

Nah sociology isnt the problem here.

This notion that there is no racism against white people because of a domination hierarchy is a fringe position held by crazy ideologues. Just like how "biological sex isnt real" is a fringe position

 

[RyoQ]

Nah sociology isnt the problem here.

Soyciology has turned this man completely schizophrenic. Lmfao

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:35 PM

This notion that there is no racism against white people because of a domination hierarchy is a fringe position held by crazy ideologues. Just like how "biological sex isnt real" is a fringe position

Fringe, held by crazy ideologues, yes that is true

 

[Zenos7]

It will be quite a moment to watch your radicalization. You are a US citizen? German perhaps? Should arrive soon 1, perhaps 2 years?. Well, either that, or you will completely side with the reactionaries that you are already flirting with. It depends on how your material conditions will be affected, I guess. Don't worry, I won't judge you. After all, I did the journey myself.

Im not flirting with reactionaries though. My disagreements with them are not as mild as my disagreements with you.

I live in germany, not sure why the rise of the far right should radicalize me though. Doesnt work like that

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:41 PM

There is human race and white ethinicity

There is the human species and various ethnicities that are considered white

 

[Logiko]

This notion that there is no racism against white people because of a domination hierarchy is a fringe position held by crazy ideologues. Just like how "biological sex isnt real" is a fringe position

No, it's not lmao. Racism is a systemic issue. It's a domination system created specifically to hierarchize and as a tool of subjugation of colonized people. Therefore, there is no such thing as “reverse racism”. It's your definition of racism that is basic. It's primary school level. It's like explaining mathematics with sticks. You need to humble down. You are nowhere near an understanding of the subject.

Soyciology has turned this man completely schizophrenic. Lmfao

Oh.. haha, an sanist joke!
Funny (no)

Im not flirting with reactionaries though. My disagreements with them are not as mild as my disagreements with you.

And yet, here you are, repeting their rethoric lmao

I live in germany, not sure why the rise of the far right should radicalize me though. Doesnt work like that

Yeah, I figured. You will see.. When your material conditions will be attacked by reactionarism and when you will notice the complete inaction of your current ideological allies, you will start to stop this "I'm rationnal therefore I know" bullshit, and you will start to actually learn about the world. Either that, or you will side with them. Just wait. Shouldn't be long... Radicality is coming.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

https://www.newsweek.com/social-security-update-medicare-medicaid-warning-donald-trump-10915076
The saddest part is how many old (white) people who blindly voted for this orange cunt are getting exactly what they wanted…they hate socialism without even realizing how much they benefit from it

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:42 PM

Lmao question then is is he truthful about not knowing beforehand?

Its plausible, if you dont know about it its just another skull, but yeah its pretty much the exact nazi symbol

I mean, if I were getting something permanently seared into my skin, I would probably do 30 seconds of research on Google and double check to make sure it’s not a symbol of white supremacy…but if someone’s already a bigot of that caliber, I can see how they wouldn’t care until they get caught

 

[Zenos7]

It's your definition of racism that is basic. It's primary school level. It's like explaining mathematics with sticks. You need to humble down. You are nowhere near an understanding of the subject.

no, its just the general definition of racism, as opposed to systemic racism.

but i do wonder, how would you define "racist" then?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:05 PM

And yet, here you are, repeting their rethoric lmao

well thanks but i can have my own views independent of other people or categories of people.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:07 PM

Yeah, I figured. You will see.. When your material conditions will be attacked by reactionarism and when you will notice the complete inaction of your current ideological allies, you will start to stop this "I'm rationnal therefore I know" bullshit, and you will start to actually learn about the world. Either that, or you will side with them. Just wait. Shouldn't be long... Radicality is coming.

so far right parties taking over = i have to inherently change my views, values, opinions and acceptance of science?

interesting. . . .

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:08 PM

I mean, if I were getting something permanently seared into my skin, I would probably do 30 seconds of research on Google and double check to make sure it’s not a symbol of white supremacy…but if someone’s already a bigot of that caliber, I can see how they wouldn’t care until they get caught

yeah getting random tats isnt my thing either.

 

[Logiko]

no, its just the general definition of racism, as opposed to systemic racism.

but i do wonder, how would you define "racist" then?

A racist is simply someone who uses dehumanization and their dominant position in whiteness to exploit and dominate or attack a racialized and most often subjugated person or group.

no, its just the general definition of racism, as opposed to systemic racism.

No. It's the basic definition, the "vulgarized" definition. As such, understanding systemic racism is level 2 and understanding whiteness is level 3. This is why most centrist won't understand systemic racism and the inexistence of reverse racism while entry leftists will and why entry leftist won't understand the concept of whiteness while sociologists and anticolonial leftists will. It's a complex concept.

well thanks but i can have my own views independent of other people or categories of people.

Yup.. That's why I'm taking my time trying to explain something with you and I do it less with someone like Hererra or Ryo. I know that you have more political potential to understand what I'm saying that them, simply because you have less biases against sociology and leftism.

so far right parties taking over = i have to inherently change my views, values, opinions and acceptance of science?

interesting. . . .

Not necessarily. It could go the other way. The world is radicalizing, the age of neoliberalism is almost over. As such, your material conditions of existence are about to change either in a good way or in a bad way (unless you are a ciswhite man in the middle-class, in which case you will feel it much later than everyone), these shift will make you radicalize. It's up to you to decide which side.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Being "white", as explained, is a social status given by whiteness. So when I'm talking about white people, I'm talking about people who are benefiting from that "invisible salary" that is the social dominating status of whiteness which pushes the white working class to identify to the white elits in opposition to racialized people overall. This is why people in the working class in the US are voting for Trump. >>>

This bullshit has to die a brutal, agonizing death

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:05 PM

Well, either that, or you will completely side with the reactionaries that you are already flirting with.

Well, I will hang myself from the tallest tree in the forest once Alise in Wonderland is elected chancellor. Will be the last elections anyway.
/s

depends on how your material conditions will be affected, I guess.

Yea kinda no.
Many AfD voters are impoverished East Germans who lost their ability to make informed political choices a long time ago and are now thoroughly brainwashed to vote against their interests and whine about foreigners whenever a scapegoat is needed.

 

[Logiko]

This bullshit has to die a brutal, agonizing death

Sadly, under capitalism, there will always be racialized people identifying with white elite & meritocracy in order to justify their own success and the system. Zemmi was a good example of that. Her reasoning for her vote to Trump and justification was her own success and quality of life. The system is created in order to keep this illusion going when they are the one at risk. I hope she is well

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Sadly, under capitalism, there will always be racialized people identifying with white elite & meritocracy in order to justify their own success and the system. Zemmi was a good example of that. Her reasoning for her vote to Trump and justification was her own success and quality of life. The system is created in order to keep this illusion going when they are the one at risk. I hope she is well

The root cause is not capitalism.
Money is simply a tool to create a domination system.
Also it's quite odd that you shoehorn meritocracy into the discussion once again. The entire structure centered around whiteness you quoted above contradicts the notion of meritocracy.

 

[Logiko]

The root cause is not capitalism.

Indeed. Capitalism is just a system of domination at the intersection with racism. It helps it, it's nourished by it, but it's a different system.

Also it's quite odd that you shoehorn meritocracy into the discussion once again. The entire structure centered around whiteness you quoted above contradicts the notion of meritocracy.

Meritocracy is a belief system at the intersection of capitalism, ableism & racism. As such, racialized people will invoke meritocratic principles to justify their position. Whiteness is a "social salary" that white people benefit from, but the problem is that racialized people seek this salary/position too without being able to access it (cf frantz fanon). It's a "racial contract" with white supremacy.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Indeed. Capitalism is just a system of domination at the intersection with racism. It helps it, it's nourished by it, but it's a different system.



Meritocracy is a belief system at the intersection of capitalism, ableism & racism. As such, racialized people will invoke meritocratic principles to justify their position. Whiteness is a "social salary" that white people benefit from, but the problem is that racialized people seek this salary/position too without being able to access it (cf frantz fanon). It's a "racial contract" with white supremacy.

AS itbstands, a society based on merit is what replaces one basing power and influence on hereditary traits, monarchy being the common example.
You know what allows humans to leave behind meritocracy completely? A return to aristocratic society where the next ruler is determined through descent alone. It allows an underestimated heir with hidden talents that would have never gotten far in any sort of competition to bloom. On the other hand, it might also leave the people with an incapable, pretentious, lazy idiot not fit for leadership.
The shift away from (purely) hereditary to merit based systems is in many societies seen as a step forward to a more egalitarian society.
The real issue lies NOT within meritocracy but rather the abilities that are seen as valuable.
A society that ascribes the highest value to whatever makes you the most money is not truly meritocratic in the actual sense.
Actual meritocracies do nonetheless exist.

 

[Logiko]

You know what allows humans to leave behind meritocracy completely? A return to aristocratic society where the next ruler is determined through descent alone. It allows an underestimated heir with hidden talents that would have never gotten far in any sort of competition to bloom.

That's only if you think the only two option are a meritocratic society and the society of kings and lords. In reality, none of those are necessary.

Actual meritocracies do nonetheless exist.

No bear. They do not. No matter how hard you try, meritocracy is but a belief system, it can't exist unless you account for millions of paramaters of inequalities. If you can do that, then, maybe you will have a seemingly meritocratic society, but it won't hold long. Meritocracy is but an illusion, it can't really exist. And at the moment, meritocracy is entering in conflict with the idea of change.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

No bear. They do not. No matter how hard you try, meritocracy is but a belief system, it can't exist unless you account for millions of paramaters of inequalities. If you can do that, then, maybe you will have a seemingly meritocratic society, but it won't hold long. Meritocracy is but an illusion, it can't really exist. And at the moment, meritocracy is entering in conflict with the idea of change

This sounds like those guys who really like wealth redistribution, equality and the likes but will vehemently die on the hill that communism is unnatural and can impossibly work because "humans are not built for this", "it's unrealistic", "Marx himself was sponsored by the other guy and never had to work himself" and then they usually quote Animal Farm.

All while completely ignoring, or -even worse- being unknowledgeable about the fact there are many examples of non European societies that had rather egalitarian societies with flat hierarchies and democratic structures.

They would like their societies to change for the better but argue only based on the experiences gained from looking at their own country, culture or even their personal experiences, carefully maintaining the mental prison their ancestral elites have built over the last few centuries.

 

[Logiko]

This sounds like those guys who really like wealth redistribution, equality and the likes but will vehemently die on the hill that communism is unnatural and can impossibly work because "humans are not built for this", "it's unrealistic", "Marx himself was sponsored by the other guy and never had to work himself" and then they usually quote Animal Farm.

It's simple logic. Meritocracy is a system based on merit and a society of competition. It's already bad, but to get merit in a task, we must start with EXACTLY the same parameters or it would be - i hope you understand this - an inequal competition. Problem: Starting with a perfect equality is impossible. As such, there will never be true meritocracy. Unless you account for millions of inequalities.

All while completely ignoring, or -even worse- being unknowledgeable about the fact there are many examples of non European societies that had rather egalitarian societies with flat hierarchies and democratic structures.

Ok. Give me toward a non-capitalist (and thus without a meritocratic belief system) society that does not live in the wood or in a form of geographic marginalized landscape, I'm waiting.

 

[Zenos7]

A racist is simply someone who uses dehumanization and their dominant position in whiteness to exploit and dominate or attack a racialized and most often subjugated person or group.

convenient (and insane)

No. It's the basic definition, the "vulgarized" definition. As such, understanding systemic racism is level 2 and understanding whiteness is level 3. This is why most centrist won't understand systemic racism and the inexistence of reverse racism while entry leftists will and why entry leftist won't understand the concept of whiteness while sociologists and anticolonial leftists will. It's a complex concept.

No, its just the definition for the term "racism". you are talking about "systemic racism" and then pretending like thats the only way to use that term. Most people are not sociologists and will just use the general definition, especially when it is about individual racism, and especially if they leave out the "systemic" context. this has got nothing to with levels, just different applications holy fuck are you pretentious and stupid.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:15 PM

Yup.. That's why I'm taking my time trying to explain something with you and I do it less with someone like Hererra or Ryo. I know that you have more political potential to understand what I'm saying that them, simply because you have less biases against sociology and leftism.

and i feel i have to repeat this point once again: people disagreeing with you doesnt mean they dont understand what you are saying. sometimes you just say really stupid shit.

and if ravager or hererra tell me 2+2=4, then im going to agree with them. and if you tell me that biological sex isnt a thing and sex is socially constructed, then im going to tell you thats flat earth level science/reality denial.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:20 PM

Not necessarily. It could go the other way. The world is radicalizing, the age of neoliberalism is almost over. As such, your material conditions of existence are about to change either in a good way or in a bad way (unless you are a ciswhite man in the middle-class, in which case you will feel it much later than everyone), these shift will make you radicalize. It's up to you to decide which side.

"white" is of no significance to me, because while being "white" im still not ethnically german so far righties hate my guts just as much as they would do with black or asian or whatever people.

i highly doubt these shifts you are talking about will radically change my views on the topics we have talked about in this thread lmao.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

It's simple logic. Meritocracy is a system based on merit and a society of competition. It's already bad, but to get merit in a task, we must start with EXACTLY the same parameters or it would be - i hope you understand this - an inequal competition. Problem: Starting with a perfect equality is impossible. As such, there will never be true meritocracy. Unless you account for millions of inequalities.




Ok. Give me toward a non-capitalist (and thus without a meritocratic belief system) society that does not live in the wood or in a form of geographic marginalized landscape, I'm waiting.

Stop having discriminatory expectations

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:22 PM

"white" is of no significance to me, because while being "white" im still not ethnically german so far righties hate my guts just as much as they would do with black or asian or whatever people.


i highly doubt these shifts you are talking about will radically change my views on the topics we have talked about in this thread lmao.

They hate Portuguese as much as Muslims?

 

[Zenos7]

They hate Portuguese as much as Muslims?

dark hair, dark beard, weird sounding last names, we might as well be muslims to them.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:25 PM

They hate Portuguese as much as Muslims?

ironically enough turkish/arabic people often think im one of them

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

dark hair, dark beard, weird sounding last names, we might as well be muslims to them.

Oopsie, seems like you got the shorter end of the DNA stick.
Oh I get it now. Your move to east Germany is a creative form of suicide. Basically the peacetime version of valiantly dying in battle.

 

[Zenos7]

Oopsie, seems like you got the shorter end of the DNA stick.

i have some 10ish% north african/arabian peninsula heritage even. 4% finnish isnt enugh to compensate