Character Discussion Garp is a terrible dog shit character

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Dragon777

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#61
#61
The Shaman King said:
Oda goes out of his way to poetry the Marines as so evil they might as well be Nazis and they would still be less evil.
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I wonder how many times Oda has to go out of his way to say the exact opposite before people start to actually read the dialogues:

Harald in this very FB, just some chapters ago:




Vegapunk last arc:



Revolutionaries themsleves about only the DC being the problem, not even the WG:



Dragon saying in this very arc if a Marine disobeys, all his comrades are killed:



Anyway, the marines don't know and who asks, is disposed off:




Again said they only follow orders, in this very same arc for the fifth time:



And so on and so forth.

I might point out again that most of those are from this very arc. I didn't even had to go back since Oda repeats this concept every time, again and again.

The Marine, as Harald said, is overall a good organization and marines are overall good people who protects civilians, with the occasional deepshit and the occasional corrupted.
 
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Kurozumi Wiwi

Kurozumi Wiwi

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#62
#62
TheKnightOfTheSea said:
yeah i kinda get that vibe too

it's just weird how long it took for the Gorosei to be confirmed as Celestial Dragons
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WG was awlays going to an antagonistic organization, but I'm not sure Oda had always them being so comically evil in his mind.
EmperorKinyagi said:
My interpretations it that Garp is essentially looking out for the average marine, who is a good person as the story has explicitly told us. Effectively if an elder or HK wants to harm marine soldiers they now have to consider that they might have to deal with a response from a PK level character like Garp. He is effectively a nuke the navy has pointed at the government.

The issue is that we should have seen way more confrontations between Garp and CDs/HKs/Elders in the story if this was the case. Outside of Garp talking poorly about CDs on two occasions, the deterrent narrative wasn't really presented in the story until God Valley.

Probably because Oda came up with it on the spot lmao
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I always had huge issues with Garp writing til this chapter, he's simple minded like Luffy yet somehow I feel his character was impossible to understand? Like Oda wanted a marine Luffy without thinking it through.

His reason for staying is basic, but I think it works f if we consider he has been in the marine for over a decade by the point he became aware of the full scope of the WG's atrocities, if he can't defeat that monster, at least he'll stay with the people he's close to try to protect them, and also try to still carry some form of justice by hunting pirates (who are evil piece of shits hardly better than the WG 90% of the time).
Also big L for Sengoku, either Garp believes he's not strong enough or that he would close his eyes if celestial dragons/elders started attacking marine soldiers.
 
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Kai. Do

Kai. Do

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#64
#64
Yeah I think this flashback pretty much ruined Garp's character for me, not that I was a big fan to begin with. The whole 'he's trying to change the marines from the inside' also doesn't work for me since Garp literally changes jack shit. Akainu becomes the new fleet admiral anyway, and Coby was still gonna arrest Hancock. New gen marines still believe in the WG propaganda.

Garp prevents Ace from being saved by Marco, just because Ace was prosecuted to be Roger's son, while at the same time blaming Ace, Luffy and Dragon for not being marines and staying in the navy despite Garp himself knows willingly that being in the navy doesn't change jack shit against the celestial dragons, gorosei and imu. Go against them and you will just be put down. Even a mad dog like Akainu is now learning that lesson.

What's even worse for me was what Garp said last chapter saying that if he left the marines who would protect the rank and file. I'm sorry, you mean the same rank and file marines that are being indoctrinated by propaganda to carry out indiscriminate genocides for the Celestial Dragons hunting competitions?

As for the marines protecting civilians against pirates, let's not forget that does not include non WG affiliated nations and nations who are too poor to pay Celestial Gold, they instead become hunting grounds for the Celestial Dragons. Not to mention that a large reason why people turn to piracy in the first place is the unjust system they live in of being forced to pay Celestial Gold and just be fodder for hunting games.

So not only is the WG evil and racist, it's also classist, and discriminately genocidal against the poor. Intentionally or not, Oda has made the WG too cartoonishly evil that there is zero nuance left of it being any good beyond just surface protection against pirates at the cost of unbearable exploitation by the WG. It's a lion protects rabbits against wolves world out there for the average Joe.

Luffy rejected the Celestial Dragons and world government from the beginning, Dragon rebelled after seeing the truth. Garp is the only bum still staying because he likes his medals.
 
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MonsterKaido

MonsterKaido

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#67
#67
Kai. Do said:
Yeah I think this flashback pretty much ruined Garp's character for me, not that I was a big fan to begin with. The whole 'he's trying to change the marines from the inside' also doesn't work for me since Garp literally changes jack shit. Akainu becomes the new fleet admiral anyway, and Coby was still gonna arrest Hancock. New gen marines still believe in the WG propaganda.

Garp prevents Ace from being saved by Marco, just because Ace was prosecuted to be Roger's son, while at the same time blaming Ace, Luffy and Dragon for not being marines and staying in the navy despite Garp himself knows willingly that being in the navy doesn't change jack shit against the celestial dragons, gorosei and imu. Go against them and you will just be put down. Even a mad dog like Akainu is now learning that lesson.

What's even worse for me was what Garp said last chapter saying that if he left the marines who would protect the rank and file. I'm sorry, you mean the same rank and file marines that are being indoctrinated by propaganda to carry out indiscriminate genocides for the Celestial Dragons hunting competitions?

As for the marines protecting civilians against pirates, let's not forget that does not include non WG affiliated nations and nations who are too poor to pay Celestial Gold, they instead become hunting grounds for the Celestial Dragons. Not to mention that a large reason why people turn to piracy in the first place is the unjust system they live in of being forced to pay Celestial Gold and just be fodder for hunting games.

So not only is the WG evil and racist, it's also classist, and discriminately genocidal against the poor. Intentionally or not, Oda has made the WG too cartoonishly evil that there is zero nuance left of it being any good beyond just surface protection against pirates at the cost of unbearable exploitation by the WG. It's a lion protects rabbits against wolves world out there for the average Joe.

Luffy rejected the Celestial Dragons and world government from the beginning, Dragon rebelled after seeing the truth. Garp is the only bum still staying because he likes his medals.
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The logic is pirates do more harm on average to civilians than CDs do but I agree otherwise.
 
Crow

Crow

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#68
#68
Nidai_Kitetsu said:
Garp gets a pass for staying in marines. There is a lot of good people in the marines. He wanted to protect them.
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40 years of VA authority enabled him to do zero to protect marines from the WG.
Best guess about SWORD is that they're built by Akainu. Which regulatory means did Garp enforce in all that years to protect the marines?



Bro ate cookies with Sencuck and had friendly sparrings with Roger, that's it.
 
Kai. Do

Kai. Do

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#70
#70
MonsterKaido said:
The logic is pirates do more harm on average to civilians than CDs do but I agree otherwise.
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Who wouldn't want to turn to piracy after living under the draconian and dystopian rule of the world government?

We don't know the whole history of One Piece or how the World Government was created yet, but the WG have ruled unjustly for centuries now and they clearly have no intention of changing behaviours.

Plus is getting robbed and killed by pirates any worse than being enslaved, raped and used in hunting competitions by the celestial dragons? I'd imagine the average pirate would at least grant a innocent weak civilian a quick death if all they wanted was their gold.

Now I know not all pirates are like that with yonko like Kaido and Warlords like Doffy also having their own classist slavery system. But those were mostly restricted to the islands and nations they governed and had control over. Whereas for the WG depopulating a island is like a annual or biannual tradition or something. Imu sama can even erase entire random islands with the stroke of a pen like he's playing civiz.
 
MonsterKaido

MonsterKaido

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#71
#71
Kai. Do said:
Who wouldn't want to turn to piracy after living under the draconian and dystopian rule of the world government?

We don't know the whole history of One Piece or how the World Government was created yet, but the WG have ruled unjustly for centuries now and they clearly have no intention of changing behaviours.

Plus is getting robbed and killed by pirates any worse than being enslaved, raped and used in hunting competitions by the celestial dragons? I'd imagine the average pirate would at least grant a innocent weak civilian a quick death if all they wanted was their gold.

Now I know not all pirates are like that with yonko like Kaido and Warlords like Doffy also having their own classist slavery system. But those were mostly restricted to the islands and nations they governed and had control over. Whereas for the WG depopulating a island is like a annual or biannual tradition or something. Imu sama can even erase entire random islands with the stroke of a pen like he's playing civiz.
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BM ordered bunch of islands to be eradicated iirc as they were not going to come to her party. My point was numbers. On avg pirates most likely do more harm to more amount of people hence garp sticks with marines. At least that is what oda thinks imo. Don't forget garp is basically luffy variant.
 
Kai. Do

Kai. Do

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#72
#72
MonsterKaido said:
BM ordered bunch of islands to be eradicated iirc as they were not going to come to her party. My point was numbers. On avg pirates most likely do more harm to more amount of people hence garp sticks with marines. At least that is what oda thinks imo. Don't forget garp is basically luffy variant.
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My issue with Garp is that even if Garp thinks that, the WG seems to erase and enslaved nations for no reason or warning unless they have to, i.e maintain their image. That's what happened many times in Kuma's and Garling's flashback where civilians to be sacrificed were still questioning why they were being rounded up until they realised the truth, giving them little chance of escape or defiance. It's much harder for yonkos like big mom to wipe out nations without alerting the island nations that a big pirate fleet is coming ashore I assume. Smaller pirates like crocodile or doflamingo had to resort to coups to get their way, and we see with long enough resistance and Luffy's help they can actually fight back and save and take back their kingdom. The WG meanwhile can do almost anything at the drop of a hat, because they have the marines, CPO, and the news media on their side. And even if tits goes up Imu can just use Uranus to delete them, or if there's a pesky defier likes Rocks, Imu will just domi reverse them anyway. How's that worse and more damaging than Big Mom destroying islands for sweets? Can Big Mom and her crew eradicate islands and kill off populations faster than the WG?
 
Kurozumi Wiwi

Kurozumi Wiwi

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#74
#74
MonsterKaido said:
The logic is pirates do more harm on average to civilians than CDs do but I agree otherwise.
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Harald said it a few chapters ago, the average marine helps citizens everyday.
The core issue is that Oda hardly shows marines saving people from bad pirates, if they get screentime it is mostly as enemies of Luffy and his friends. Also I think we're mean to believe only a minority of marines are directly operating for the CDs, Garp who has been in it for decades was shocked to see what happened in GV, meaning even a high-ranked VA didn't know about the hunting games.
 
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Zoinks52

Zoinks52

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#75
#75
Kurozumi Wiwi said:
Harald said it a few chapters ago, the average marine helps citizens everyday.
The core issue is that Oda hardly shows marines saving people from bad pirates, if they get screentime it is mostly as enemies of Luffy and his friends. Also I think we're mean to believe only a minority of marines are directly operating for the CDs, Garp who has been in it for decades was shocked to see what happened in GV, meaning even a high-ranked VA didn't know about the hunting games.
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Not to mention, we don't even see the top marines go after pirates much.

Admirals in particular feel more like overpowered hitmen than pirate hunting officers.

Kizaru capturing pirates in Sabaody and Ryokugyu capturing Weevil are the main ones.

Akainu is like Mr Peak Pirate hater allegedly but outside of some moments here and there (mainly in MF) we really don't see him go Magma Darth Vader on pirates.

Hell we had to get a whole new organisation just to see the Marines actually tackle the Yonko problem (SWORD).

I feel like Oda could have used Rocks' and Roger's former crew members for this, like the Yonko are left alone for balance but unaffiliated powerhouses like Shiki, Kyo, Bullet, Barbell, Sunbell etc could have been fed to the Marines.
 
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