Character Discussion Rate Odas Character Writing on a Scale of 1-10
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I mean.. Not really?
She kind of jumped the gun there by suddenly being super in love with Luffy and getting all weak and soft around him. I don't mind the idea of her overcoming her hatred of men by seeing Luffy's ability to be pure of heart and understanding to her even after learning about her horrible past, but Oda ruins it by having her turn into a gigantic Luffy simp who melts whenever he simply looks at her in a funny way.
She kind of jumped the gun there by suddenly being super in love with Luffy and getting all weak and soft around him. I don't mind the idea of her overcoming her hatred of men by seeing Luffy's ability to be pure of heart and understanding to her even after learning about her horrible past, but Oda ruins it by having her turn into a gigantic Luffy simp who melts whenever he simply looks at her in a funny way.
Shanks can't compete with a goat like sasori 
Deidara > Sasori cope harder.
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She was better off how she was at her introduction. Very badass and cruel. After that, she just downgraded into being a Luffy simp and became slop like most female characters with Oda.
My point was not to insult you, simply to point out the fact that this is the usual reply that I get when I say that a character is developped.
> For me, the character is amazing
> But a lot of time (here), mangareaders don't see them. We usually have to go toward reactors and binge-readers for that. And they usually end up telling me "what development?" or something similar.
Here for exemple, there are a few missunderstanding:
Hancock did not really hate men. She was afraid of them. Men abused her. In fact, she looked up to one specific man before Luffy : F. Tiger.
Which means that no...
.. She didn't jump the gun by falling in love with Luffy.
Luffy simply completely cracked open her vision of the world. He liberated her from her shell and trauma, at least, he gave her a reason to get out of it. He showed her that being strong does not equal to being secluded, or hidden, or being mean.
You see, Oda made a perfect homerun with the character of Hancock, somehow, and a LONG time before the current feminist wave,, Oda managed to perfectly capture the essence of the struggle of a victim of abuse : being that the biggest hurdle is this self hatred and the judgment that victim fear to face in front of others if they open up.
This is not a simple good writing, this is pure lived human emotion on paper with a touch of humor of course.
Luffy liberated Hancock with kindness and a lack of judgment. He showed her the potential of men and thus, made her completely fall in love with him. Humoritically of course, but with a real organic development.
And that's why Oda is so strong. He writes human being, real ones. And hide everything behind a cartoon layer.
Of course, Oda writes her with humor in mind, but the reality of her development is strong. And this "simp activity" if you will.. is a process of healing. Hancock lost a part of her shell of gravitude and brutality and gain a more chaotic, natural, loving and goofy mindset.
> For me, the character is amazing
> But a lot of time (here), mangareaders don't see them. We usually have to go toward reactors and binge-readers for that. And they usually end up telling me "what development?" or something similar.
Here for exemple, there are a few missunderstanding:
Hancock did not really hate men. She was afraid of them. Men abused her. In fact, she looked up to one specific man before Luffy : F. Tiger.
Which means that no...
.. She didn't jump the gun by falling in love with Luffy.
Luffy simply completely cracked open her vision of the world. He liberated her from her shell and trauma, at least, he gave her a reason to get out of it. He showed her that being strong does not equal to being secluded, or hidden, or being mean.
You see, Oda made a perfect homerun with the character of Hancock, somehow, and a LONG time before the current feminist wave,, Oda managed to perfectly capture the essence of the struggle of a victim of abuse : being that the biggest hurdle is this self hatred and the judgment that victim fear to face in front of others if they open up.
This is not a simple good writing, this is pure lived human emotion on paper with a touch of humor of course.
Luffy liberated Hancock with kindness and a lack of judgment. He showed her the potential of men and thus, made her completely fall in love with him. Humoritically of course, but with a real organic development.
And that's why Oda is so strong. He writes human being, real ones. And hide everything behind a cartoon layer.
Of course, Oda writes her with humor in mind, but the reality of her development is strong. And this "simp activity" if you will.. is a process of healing. Hancock lost a part of her shell of gravitude and brutality and gain a more chaotic, natural, loving and goofy mindset.
No. And that's precisely why I believe he is a masterfull writer. The main strenght of Oda are his empathy and his rebellious attitude toward art.
Something is now very clear to me: Oda was never interested in making normal story. While he might explain that he is writing organically..
Oda is first and foremost a contradictor. What he really likes is breaking the molds.
And that how he managed to write Nami, Robin or Hancock despite being a man, despite having major sexist biases, despite having probably no political education on the subject.
He wrote them in contradiction to the way society writes women. And this contradiction happens to align with a feminist vision (mostly, there are problems here and there of course).
Hancock didn't drop her pain, she still carries it on her and on her back. But she relieved herself from the weight of the burden. She found an opening to heal. And healing - for her, translated through love.
While it can be seens as "the woman who was abused fell in love with the man, boohooo", this sudden change in behavior is full of nuance and perfectly in line with a normal human reaction. Luffy is the first time Hancock felt seen as a woman rather than a body. Not only that, but the guy showcased TWO MASSIVE acts of kindness in front of her, and she heard that the same man punched the pure symbol of her trauma, something she thought was impossible.. All of this while managing to break her shell and showing equal strenght and power.
> I mean, I would fall in love with Luffy if I was her. There was no way to escape that.
Something is now very clear to me: Oda was never interested in making normal story. While he might explain that he is writing organically..
Oda is first and foremost a contradictor. What he really likes is breaking the molds.
And that how he managed to write Nami, Robin or Hancock despite being a man, despite having major sexist biases, despite having probably no political education on the subject.
He wrote them in contradiction to the way society writes women. And this contradiction happens to align with a feminist vision (mostly, there are problems here and there of course).
Hancock didn't drop her pain, she still carries it on her and on her back. But she relieved herself from the weight of the burden. She found an opening to heal. And healing - for her, translated through love.
While it can be seens as "the woman who was abused fell in love with the man, boohooo", this sudden change in behavior is full of nuance and perfectly in line with a normal human reaction. Luffy is the first time Hancock felt seen as a woman rather than a body. Not only that, but the guy showcased TWO MASSIVE acts of kindness in front of her, and she heard that the same man punched the pure symbol of her trauma, something she thought was impossible.. All of this while managing to break her shell and showing equal strenght and power.
> I mean, I would fall in love with Luffy if I was her. There was no way to escape that.
No, he doesn't. 90% of the story is either him regurgitating his own plotlines, or using various tropes and references from other things. He hardly "breaks the mold" and he's definitely not a contradictor either.
Maybe him being a man with no understanding on women whatsoever is a clue? Lol.
He's never written women in contradiction to the way society writes women. That's why he draws women like this and gives certain female characters powers like doing laundry (Tsuru). How does his writing align with a feminist vision?
It's not just that she fell in love with him after that, it's that she became a complete mess of a character who's obsessed with getting him to marry her just because he finally treated her like an actual human being. How is that at all realistic? No real human being is going to suddenly fall in love with you only a few days after meeting you just because you treated them like they're a person.
Maybe him being a man with no understanding on women whatsoever is a clue? Lol.
He's never written women in contradiction to the way society writes women. That's why he draws women like this and gives certain female characters powers like doing laundry (Tsuru). How does his writing align with a feminist vision?
Hancock didn't drop her pain, she still carries it on her and on her back. But she relieved herself from the weight of the burden. She found an opening to heal. And healing - for her, translated through love.
While it can be seens as "the woman who was abused fell in love with the man, boohooo", this sudden change in behavior is full of nuance and perfectly in line with a normal human reaction. Luffy is the first time Hancock felt seen as a woman rather than a body. Not only that, but the guy showcased TWO MASSIVE acts of kindness in front of her, and she heard that the same man punched the pure symbol of her trauma, something she thought was impossible.. All of this while managing to break her shell and showing equal strenght and power.
> I mean, I would fall in love with Luffy if I was her. There was no way to escape that.
While it can be seens as "the woman who was abused fell in love with the man, boohooo", this sudden change in behavior is full of nuance and perfectly in line with a normal human reaction. Luffy is the first time Hancock felt seen as a woman rather than a body. Not only that, but the guy showcased TWO MASSIVE acts of kindness in front of her, and she heard that the same man punched the pure symbol of her trauma, something she thought was impossible.. All of this while managing to break her shell and showing equal strenght and power.
> I mean, I would fall in love with Luffy if I was her. There was no way to escape that.
I'm sorry you feel that way. But that's not true.
You are confusing a lot things here mate. I'm talking about writing here, not design. The design are one things, outside of sexism, they are exagerated first. The writing is another. And yeah, he literally has been writing in contradiction to the way man write women in general in the case of most women : especially Nami, Robin & Vivi.
For their case, the writing is out of this word. It's the pure understanding of the necessity of a character with agency and what happen when said agency is being threaten. I won't debate on their writing, if you can't see why it's, it's beyond my paygrade. This would need too much explanation and I just woke up, I don't have that kind of motivation at the moment.
But yeah, like I said, it's not perfect,, so there are a bunch of coutner exemple like giving a bad power to Tsuru or some forms of sexualization otherwise or innapropriate gender roles. But I want, again, to emphasize that I'm talking about writing here as in the way he capture the emotionnal development of a character.
And no matter what you will see, Oda is on top. You can disagree if you want, this won't change anything.
Love is a hurricane. You are confusing multiple layers of reading here.
What needs to be realistic is not her falling in love with Luffy and obsessing over him. This needs to be made humorous, for the gag. This is One Piece after all, everything needs to be exaggerated.
What needed to be realistic is the development BEHIND this healing, the development BEHIND her love. After that, it's a matter of having fun, and Hancock will be developped again if she needs to.
> The realism of One Piece is usually invisible. It's BEHIND the writing, BEHIND the humor. BEHIND the exageration. It's not these things themselves.
Ex: Franky:
This, is One Piece's writing.
You are confusing a lot things here mate. I'm talking about writing here, not design. The design are one things, outside of sexism, they are exagerated first. The writing is another. And yeah, he literally has been writing in contradiction to the way man write women in general in the case of most women : especially Nami, Robin & Vivi.
For their case, the writing is out of this word. It's the pure understanding of the necessity of a character with agency and what happen when said agency is being threaten. I won't debate on their writing, if you can't see why it's, it's beyond my paygrade. This would need too much explanation and I just woke up, I don't have that kind of motivation at the moment.
But yeah, like I said, it's not perfect,, so there are a bunch of coutner exemple like giving a bad power to Tsuru or some forms of sexualization otherwise or innapropriate gender roles. But I want, again, to emphasize that I'm talking about writing here as in the way he capture the emotionnal development of a character.
And no matter what you will see, Oda is on top. You can disagree if you want, this won't change anything.
Love is a hurricane. You are confusing multiple layers of reading here.
What needs to be realistic is not her falling in love with Luffy and obsessing over him. This needs to be made humorous, for the gag. This is One Piece after all, everything needs to be exaggerated.
What needed to be realistic is the development BEHIND this healing, the development BEHIND her love. After that, it's a matter of having fun, and Hancock will be developped again if she needs to.
> The realism of One Piece is usually invisible. It's BEHIND the writing, BEHIND the humor. BEHIND the exageration. It's not these things themselves.
Ex: Franky:
Franky - for ex - is a highly exagerated character. In real life, it's very unlikely that such behavior exist. Yet, he is also a very realistical character BEHIND this layer of exageration. This exageration has a purpose : to depict the pride of Franky. This is the obvious layer, but behind this layer lie insecurities and a story of regrets and self doubts.
You see Franky have been living most his adult life with the idea that his inventions (/babies) caused the fall/arrest of his mentor/father figure. As such, Franky, who was an orphan abandoned by his family, projected this insecurity and behavior and transformed his life and dream into a path of self-destruction, giving up his children. A form of destruction for himself and the destruction of ships ... through the Franky family.
This name alone "Franky family" is very telling about the mindset and thematics behind Franky's writing and his biggest strenght. His entire story is one big message: be proud of who you are and your the family you create, be proud of what your creations, even when they can hurt you.
The Sunny is not only a ship, it's a child that Franky created out of pure love and dreams and want to see proudly sail the world. It's the result of Franky finally forgiving himself and forgiving his creations in the potential of a bright future.
So when Franky is SUPPPPPPER-ing, it's not an expression of overbearing pride, it's a way for him to reassure himself, to remind himself that he SHOULD be proud of who he is, of what he can build and the family around him.
You see Franky have been living most his adult life with the idea that his inventions (/babies) caused the fall/arrest of his mentor/father figure. As such, Franky, who was an orphan abandoned by his family, projected this insecurity and behavior and transformed his life and dream into a path of self-destruction, giving up his children. A form of destruction for himself and the destruction of ships ... through the Franky family.
This name alone "Franky family" is very telling about the mindset and thematics behind Franky's writing and his biggest strenght. His entire story is one big message: be proud of who you are and your the family you create, be proud of what your creations, even when they can hurt you.
The Sunny is not only a ship, it's a child that Franky created out of pure love and dreams and want to see proudly sail the world. It's the result of Franky finally forgiving himself and forgiving his creations in the potential of a bright future.
So when Franky is SUPPPPPPER-ing, it's not an expression of overbearing pride, it's a way for him to reassure himself, to remind himself that he SHOULD be proud of who he is, of what he can build and the family around him.
This, is One Piece's writing.
It's not about ego. You are affirming something, I'm simply saying the opposite (a bit too provocatively, granted, because I feel like I'm not being listened to).
I told you that I can't simply tell you something contrary to what I believe just to please you. You also have to accept contradiction. I hear you, I understand your point of view, but I don't agree with it. I consider it based on a negative and biased reading of the story. I have good reasons to believe this since it is already the case systematically on this forum, I'm not saying sh*t for the fun of it or by bad faith or to be mean.
There is a problem of bias and reading comprehension concerning OP and many stories in the fandom worlds, I know it, we have the data to prove it. It's undisputable. And I believe this argument you are giving is based on the same problem.
Again, I'm not telling you to think differently, I'm telling you that it's not the reality of the writing, at least from my point of view. There are issues, yes of course, like any stories, but what we are talking about are not.
I want to add: that when I'm talking about reading comprehension, which is a problem of media literacy here (since it applies to movies and shows as well) I'm not saying that people are dumb or that they can't understand stories. I'm talking about a real documented psychological process that can happen to anyone, which we have reason to believe applies to the way people see One Piece here, especially the writing.
I told you that I can't simply tell you something contrary to what I believe just to please you. You also have to accept contradiction. I hear you, I understand your point of view, but I don't agree with it. I consider it based on a negative and biased reading of the story. I have good reasons to believe this since it is already the case systematically on this forum, I'm not saying sh*t for the fun of it or by bad faith or to be mean.
There is a problem of bias and reading comprehension concerning OP and many stories in the fandom worlds, I know it, we have the data to prove it. It's undisputable. And I believe this argument you are giving is based on the same problem.
Again, I'm not telling you to think differently, I'm telling you that it's not the reality of the writing, at least from my point of view. There are issues, yes of course, like any stories, but what we are talking about are not.
I want to add: that when I'm talking about reading comprehension, which is a problem of media literacy here (since it applies to movies and shows as well) I'm not saying that people are dumb or that they can't understand stories. I'm talking about a real documented psychological process that can happen to anyone, which we have reason to believe applies to the way people see One Piece here, especially the writing.
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