Maybe. I think it's quite clearly this though:
Speculations Did Shanks beat Loki in a clean 1 vs 1?
- Thread starter Blackknife
- Start date
@Paperchampion23 Wouldn’t this disprove that Loki is the other sovereign? Since he was already born?
Well again, we can agree to disagree on this, I think it has to be something else. Shanks isn´t a ¨D¨ or a minority, which is what it feels like the story is building up to wrt Joyboys ancestry. If anything, you´d think Joyboy is related to the giants somehow, which is why Oda feels so comfortable making Harald powerful, while King would think Kaido could be Joyboy
Yes, Shanks is far stronger than Loki, by a very wide margin.
Loki is a monster in terms of power, but he’s still far below Shanks.
Shanks put an end to one of the greatest wars in the world, Marineford, through his mere presence. At the time, the only forces that did not take part in the war were the Five Elders, the God’s Knights, and Imu. Interestingly, when Imu was introduced, his brother Shamrock was revealed almost at the same time.
Shanks himself has interacted with both the God’s Knights and the Five Elders. While Imu may tremble at the existence of Loki and Ragnar, Shanks is a far greater threat. The difference is that he restrains himself through diplomacy. When we’ve never truly seen someone fight, we should always assume that their physical power matches their level of influence.
By the way, I also think Dragon would defeat Loki in a one-on-one fight.
Loki is a monster in terms of power, but he’s still far below Shanks.
Shanks put an end to one of the greatest wars in the world, Marineford, through his mere presence. At the time, the only forces that did not take part in the war were the Five Elders, the God’s Knights, and Imu. Interestingly, when Imu was introduced, his brother Shamrock was revealed almost at the same time.
Shanks himself has interacted with both the God’s Knights and the Five Elders. While Imu may tremble at the existence of Loki and Ragnar, Shanks is a far greater threat. The difference is that he restrains himself through diplomacy. When we’ve never truly seen someone fight, we should always assume that their physical power matches their level of influence.
By the way, I also think Dragon would defeat Loki in a one-on-one fight.
If you're 50/50 on whether he did it fair and square, how can you be certain he would beat him fair and square without sufficient evidence?
Remove your bias. Even as a Mihawk-stan, if it's revealed that Shanks had to use some roundabout way to chain him because he was literally just that strong, there is a possibility that Loki could be stronger than both Mihawk and Shanks.
His bounty is 2.6 bil but if he was never chained for those years, he would have gained an even bigger bounty and could have been known as "Worlds Strongest Giant" or something.
One thing I am certain of is that he's stronger than Kaido. After luffy defeats Kaido and has become an Emperor and even stronger, Oda has to nerf Loki, he's a month away from recovering to baseline because of being weakened for so long. So whatever he does now he's literally weakened/ not at his best. And then he might learn how to use his ACOC better because of what Scopper said.
If we say Loki who killed harald is weaker than the Loki who set sail for 8 years, because that is the trend we have to follow with a character like Oden, who got stronger on the voyage, then even if it's only 10% stronger Loki would be stronger than when he killed harald.
And then we have to factor in his potential Zoan Hybrid form on top of all of this.
Shanks could have equal to or maybe more haki mass than Loki, but that doesn't necessitate that he's stronger than him overall. This is why it's interesting Oda put emphasis on the volume of haki someone has. It's similar to concepts we've already seen in JJK or Naruto etc.
Remove your bias. Even as a Mihawk-stan, if it's revealed that Shanks had to use some roundabout way to chain him because he was literally just that strong, there is a possibility that Loki could be stronger than both Mihawk and Shanks.
His bounty is 2.6 bil but if he was never chained for those years, he would have gained an even bigger bounty and could have been known as "Worlds Strongest Giant" or something.
One thing I am certain of is that he's stronger than Kaido. After luffy defeats Kaido and has become an Emperor and even stronger, Oda has to nerf Loki, he's a month away from recovering to baseline because of being weakened for so long. So whatever he does now he's literally weakened/ not at his best. And then he might learn how to use his ACOC better because of what Scopper said.
If we say Loki who killed harald is weaker than the Loki who set sail for 8 years, because that is the trend we have to follow with a character like Oden, who got stronger on the voyage, then even if it's only 10% stronger Loki would be stronger than when he killed harald.
And then we have to factor in his potential Zoan Hybrid form on top of all of this.
Shanks could have equal to or maybe more haki mass than Loki, but that doesn't necessitate that he's stronger than him overall. This is why it's interesting Oda put emphasis on the volume of haki someone has. It's similar to concepts we've already seen in JJK or Naruto etc.
First of all, 50-50 refers to Story Choice, meaning I'm not certain which Scenario Oda went with,
But Combat Wise? I have 0 Doubt that Shanks can beat Loki,
Secondly, I don't put Loki above Old Gen yet, neither Roger nor Garp nor WB nor Kaidou ... etc
Why? Because the whole point of Adv. CoC is that it makes "Lineage Factor" Advantage Obsolete,
Likes of Shanks & Roger & Xebec & Garp ... etc are Peak "Normal" Humans who have Adv. CoC,
It don't matter if you eat DF, make Contract with Imu, Scientifically Enhance yourself, be Born with Superior Body, wield Special Weapon ... etc
All of these make you Superior than Normal Humans, but Adv. CoC exists to Balance things, it removes that Gap,
You think Loki is Only One with Superior Body & more World Threatening Power than Shanks?
Same goes for WB, Blackbeard, Kaidou, Big Mom, Luffy, Sengoku, Admirals, Gorosei, Harald ... etc
But when Adv. CoC enters the Conversation, Lineage Factor/Science Advantage leaves the Room,
Threat to The World have No Cap, Oda will continue to Introduce more & more dangerous Characters,
And Yes, Loki seems to be Bigger Threat than Kaidou or WB imo, but in a 1v1 Duel? It's all about your Fighting Style & Adv. CoC,
Thirdly, for Loki vs Harald, the Fight is Separated into Two Parts,
1. Loki Hitting Harald repeatedly till He regained Consciousness
2. Loki Killing Harald after He stood still & accepted his fate
Hitting Harald isn't a Feat that makes me go: "Oh, Loki can beat Shanks", because even those Guards can Hit Harald, and so did Shanks/Gaban, Loki's Only Feat was that his Attacks could work on Harald, that was the focus & mystery of that Fight, not that Loki can tag Harald or land finishing blow if Harald stands still defenseless,
Just because Loki's Attacks can work on Harald, doesn't mean He beats any Character who can't,
Shanks & Mihawk Fight revolves around them not letting you land a single Hit, not take it with their body & hope your attack doesn't work on them, which means what your attack do is irrelevant, the question is, can you outperform them in close combat? And the Answer is No, because I have yet to see a Character who can,
But Combat Wise? I have 0 Doubt that Shanks can beat Loki,
Secondly, I don't put Loki above Old Gen yet, neither Roger nor Garp nor WB nor Kaidou ... etc
Why? Because the whole point of Adv. CoC is that it makes "Lineage Factor" Advantage Obsolete,
Likes of Shanks & Roger & Xebec & Garp ... etc are Peak "Normal" Humans who have Adv. CoC,
It don't matter if you eat DF, make Contract with Imu, Scientifically Enhance yourself, be Born with Superior Body, wield Special Weapon ... etc
All of these make you Superior than Normal Humans, but Adv. CoC exists to Balance things, it removes that Gap,
You think Loki is Only One with Superior Body & more World Threatening Power than Shanks?
Same goes for WB, Blackbeard, Kaidou, Big Mom, Luffy, Sengoku, Admirals, Gorosei, Harald ... etc
But when Adv. CoC enters the Conversation, Lineage Factor/Science Advantage leaves the Room,
Threat to The World have No Cap, Oda will continue to Introduce more & more dangerous Characters,
And Yes, Loki seems to be Bigger Threat than Kaidou or WB imo, but in a 1v1 Duel? It's all about your Fighting Style & Adv. CoC,
Thirdly, for Loki vs Harald, the Fight is Separated into Two Parts,
1. Loki Hitting Harald repeatedly till He regained Consciousness
2. Loki Killing Harald after He stood still & accepted his fate
Hitting Harald isn't a Feat that makes me go: "Oh, Loki can beat Shanks", because even those Guards can Hit Harald, and so did Shanks/Gaban, Loki's Only Feat was that his Attacks could work on Harald, that was the focus & mystery of that Fight, not that Loki can tag Harald or land finishing blow if Harald stands still defenseless,
Just because Loki's Attacks can work on Harald, doesn't mean He beats any Character who can't,
Shanks & Mihawk Fight revolves around them not letting you land a single Hit, not take it with their body & hope your attack doesn't work on them, which means what your attack do is irrelevant, the question is, can you outperform them in close combat? And the Answer is No, because I have yet to see a Character who can,
I would agree, with a small caveat. CoC is known to be linked to the users overall powerlevel. Which is the reason DR Xebec's CoC seemed more powerful. Or Kaido's CoC being boosted by Shuron Hakke, because his overall power increased.
So if someone with powerful ACoC ate and awakened a top tier fruit, especially top tier mythical zoan, his CoC would also get a boost.
Though I agree that superior ACoC on a DFless guy will outmatch someone with a DF but yet inferior Haki.
So if someone with powerful ACoC ate and awakened a top tier fruit, especially top tier mythical zoan, his CoC would also get a boost.
Though I agree that superior ACoC on a DFless guy will outmatch someone with a DF but yet inferior Haki.
I don't think CoC grows Stronger, your Willpower is fixed from Start, that's why CoC Users are born with it, what is increasing instead is percentage of how much of your Willpower can you release as Haki,
That means closer you're to your Physical Peak, the closer you get to unlocking 100% of your Haki,
So it doesn't matter what's your Physical Ceiling, even if it's Oars who can push continents, his Haki won't surpass Shanks because of this relativity,
As for when you see Characters making their Haki Stronger similar to Kaidou, that's not them receiving a Boost, it's just them deciding to increase their Output, because all Fighters their Powers can Scale,
Not all Sables are Equals, not all Black Holes are Equals, not all Hiken are Equals, not all El Thor are Equals, not all Ursus Shock are Equals ... etc it's up to Fighters to decide their Output,
Adv. CoC Users in their Prime are Near-Unbeatable, and CoC removes any Lineage Factor Advantage, and if it's against another CoC User, They cancel each other out,
So if Two Adv. CoC Fighters Duel, everything cancels out, it becomes like a Normal Gladiator-Like Combat, similar to Xebec vs Harald, just Martial Arts Competition,
And the Story is trying to tell us repeatedly that aside from Greatest Swordsman, no one can outperform Shanks.
That means closer you're to your Physical Peak, the closer you get to unlocking 100% of your Haki,
So it doesn't matter what's your Physical Ceiling, even if it's Oars who can push continents, his Haki won't surpass Shanks because of this relativity,
As for when you see Characters making their Haki Stronger similar to Kaidou, that's not them receiving a Boost, it's just them deciding to increase their Output, because all Fighters their Powers can Scale,
Not all Sables are Equals, not all Black Holes are Equals, not all Hiken are Equals, not all El Thor are Equals, not all Ursus Shock are Equals ... etc it's up to Fighters to decide their Output,
Adv. CoC Users in their Prime are Near-Unbeatable, and CoC removes any Lineage Factor Advantage, and if it's against another CoC User, They cancel each other out,
So if Two Adv. CoC Fighters Duel, everything cancels out, it becomes like a Normal Gladiator-Like Combat, similar to Xebec vs Harald, just Martial Arts Competition,
And the Story is trying to tell us repeatedly that aside from Greatest Swordsman, no one can outperform Shanks.
Loki being stronger doesn't mean he beats mihawk or shanks in a 1v1, I'm talking about his overall base stats.
If Shanks can lock loki up without having to have a difficult fight with him, he should do that, why would he do otherwise when they literally share history together, being in the same room when Loki killed his father.
Shanks felt responsible for Harald's death, and doesn't want Loki to die either. What I'm talking about is overall stats like I already mentioned, could Mihawk outskill loki despite loki having more AP than him? sure, could Shanks have more haki mass to compete with Loki? sure.
When I mentioned why you have certainty, I was talking about from an objective standpoint, you say you're trying to scale loki this way, to not put him above kaido and old gen, sure sure, but your bias reeks for shanks, even if it turns out to be true, which it very well could be.
The scenario I painted was an IF statement in the first place, IF and only if Shanks had to go about it in a roundabout way.
Loki's attack has demonstrated it's affect and the surrounding context behind it shows it's portrayal, you can't even say shanks divine departure does as well on Harald, because we haven't seen it's affect on an immortal ancient giant.
Right now you have to objectively say Loki looks more impressive until otherwise, but you refuse because you're biased.
If Shanks can lock loki up without having to have a difficult fight with him, he should do that, why would he do otherwise when they literally share history together, being in the same room when Loki killed his father.
Shanks felt responsible for Harald's death, and doesn't want Loki to die either. What I'm talking about is overall stats like I already mentioned, could Mihawk outskill loki despite loki having more AP than him? sure, could Shanks have more haki mass to compete with Loki? sure.
When I mentioned why you have certainty, I was talking about from an objective standpoint, you say you're trying to scale loki this way, to not put him above kaido and old gen, sure sure, but your bias reeks for shanks, even if it turns out to be true, which it very well could be.
The scenario I painted was an IF statement in the first place, IF and only if Shanks had to go about it in a roundabout way.
Loki's attack has demonstrated it's affect and the surrounding context behind it shows it's portrayal, you can't even say shanks divine departure does as well on Harald, because we haven't seen it's affect on an immortal ancient giant.
Right now you have to objectively say Loki looks more impressive until otherwise, but you refuse because you're biased.
