Powers & Abilities New Goalpost for Zoro?

[kekaro]

how did you manage to quote me in this?

you edited your post didn't you?

Did I ? proofs????

 

[MonochromeYoru]

Did I ? proofs????

Spoiler: Never question me again bum. i got the receipts

 

[HA001]

The fact that he won't have a prolonged fight with a top tier by himself, a fight like Luffy vs Kizaru, Zoro vs Lucci. He didn't have this on the roof, nor did he have this on Egghead where there were 6 top tiers present. 6 of em. And Oda gave us a single clash. So yea Oda is clearly uncomfortable with it, as it has never happened in the manga.


This is inherently contradictory. Lucci is not a sufficient stalling opponent for a true top tier. Canonically, Zoro’s fight with Lucci dragged on longer than the Straw Hats could afford, to the point where Jinbe had to step in, on Nami’s orders, to pull Zoro back to the group.


My cutoff for top tier is being able to give Big Mom or Old Legends an extreme diff battle in a 1v1, nothing even slightly below this.


King is not an exception for a YC1. You can place him at the top but Katakuri and Marco are not getting ragdolled by King like Zoro was. Marco was the one ragdolling King when they were fighting on panel for a reason even in a 1v2, Katakuri is basically invulnerable when his FS is active in combination with his DF.
Oda gave each of the 3 YC1 nigh invulnerability. With Marco it's through his df and then linked to his stamina, with Katakuri it's through haki and then linked to his stamina, with King it's through his genes and linked to (god knows what) his flames. When all 3 characters have their invulnerable modes activated they are very close to invincible. You can argue one is more invincible over the other (depending on the situation).
In the time limited situation Zoro was in he was going to struggle equally as much against either of Marco or Katakuri.


The point was that rooftop Zoro was being placed above YC1s, based on his rooftop performance, and people thought King would be a waste of his time...only to be hit with a dose of reality.

This time, people aren’t putting Zoro above top tiers, just on the same level as them so the comparison naturally scales down. And unlike the massive gap between top tiers and everyone below them, the gap between YC1 and YC2 is much smaller, so Zoro being around YC1 lvl on the roof only strengthens my stance, because he "looked" like he was much stronger than YC1 which turned out false. 1v1s are a different beast.


Given the overlap in their toolkits (no DF, lethal weapons, ACoC, elite in CQC, solid ranged attacks, not lacking in speed with a clear edge to Gaban in mobility) lacking Future Sight becomes a serious disadvantage for Zoro and gives Gaban a significant edge. I wouldn’t be surprised if Future Sight ends up being standard for every DF-less top tier, effectively becoming the baseline form of observation haki at that level because with similar toolkits it ends up giving far too big of an advantage to the FS user.


Zoro's last major fight he nearly got killed by his own sword taking out King, who was quite literally proven to be trash to a top tier in Aramaki. There isn't enough on Zoro rn, did he get stronger? Sure....how much stronger remains to be seen. And there is a heck of a lot of ground to cover given Aramaki can defeat someone like King without breaking a single sweat.





Lunarians cannot be damaged with flames on, Luffy and Kaku were in the same boat far as damaging them goes.

Isnt that the whole point though ?

The reason it was said zoro vs king doesnt make sense after what he did on the roof was because kaido had 2 acts hyping how durable he was and luffy had a whole training section because of how durable kaido was. No one thought king would be superior to kaido in the aspect kaido was hyped up for all of wano.
And thats the point.
Zoro never struggled to hit king. He just couldnt damage him. No matter what king did zoro could always land attacks.
Marco and kata do not have the invunerable luxury.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

Isnt that the whole point though ?

The reason it was said zoro vs king doesnt make sense after what he did on the roof was because kaido had 2 acts hyping how durable he was and luffy had a whole training section because of how durable kaido was. No one thought king would be superior to kaido in the aspect kaido was hyped up for all of wano.
And thats the point.
Zoro never struggled to hit king. He just couldnt damage him. No matter what king did zoro could always land attacks.
Marco and kata do not have the invunerable luxury.

Marco hurt him through the flame. that's canon.

Kata has superior coa and coo. fs means king is not touching kata at all. King will try to use speed mode more to try and hit kata. which will just leave him vulnerable.

 

[Paragorn]

The day zoro fights and defeat a top tier, he'll be top tier. Since he's still fighting high tiers, he remains high tier, simple.

 

[Rukusho]

Only like 10% of gym goes can bench 2 plates so you’re already the exception

We need more convos like this bro 💪

 

[ShadowStyle369]

What’s your bench ?

315x4

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

So what is the new goalpost to accept that Zoro is true top tier. Last time it was that he cant use CoC on demand, his usage is bad, he cant keep it up for long duration, he will run out of stamina and die of exhaustion, he gets CoC from Enma etc. All retarded stupid shit was being thrown.

Now he has once again shown ACoC usage without KoH mode (funny how the flames are absent) and without any sign of exhaustion (it was already clear in EH). So what is the new goalpost.

So in which metric does Zoro not live up to top tier status?
CoC - Body is at ease with it even leaking profusely, can control and use without any exhaustion
CoA - Best offense (Asura - DMG) and defense CoA (Hakai block) feat in manga
CoO - Sleep diff (only shown by WB), probably least tagged fighter in 1v1 post TS
Strength - Not even needed, his physicals in pre TS were already pretty high
Speed - Blitz Kaido and BM at RT, negged Lucci
Mobility - Dodge lightspeed paw canon, blitz and hit flying opponent, negged the giant army and dodged Dorry and Broggy attack
Endurance - Greater than max dura/endurance Kuma even at pre TS
Durability - Base is same as other humans though with passive CoC it could be higher now

@nik87 @mly90 @Shimotsuki Fenaker @HA001 @Cruxroux

He needs a black blade.

 

[nik87]

Marco hurt him through the flame. that's canon.

So did Zoro, that's canon too.
And yet it is retconned and declared impossible.
Next excuse, Mono-chin.

 

[HA001]

Marco hurt him through the flame. that's canon.

Kata has superior coa and coo. fs means king is not touching kata at all. King will try to use speed mode more to try and hit kata. which will just leave him vulnerable.

Marco did nothing and got beat up by king

Nothing kata does is hurting king with his flame off.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

So did Zoro, that's canon too.
And yet it is retconned and declared impossible.
Next excuse, Mono-chin.

Go cry to oda lol

Marco hurting him was portrayed better than whatever zoro did to flame on king. And marco has the excuse of mythical Phoenix flames bypassing lunarian flames which zoro does not have.

Marco did nothing and got beat up by king

Nothing kata does is hurting king with his flame off.

Marco got jumped by king and queen, all the while he was healing the floor, had a scuffle with meme, and was helping out here and there. He ran out of stamina. And he was up within a few minutes and clashing with kaido lol.

King didn't do shit.

Kata has superior coa. He'll hurt king.

 

[Crow]

Marco got jumped by king and queen

> getting jumped by King and Queen
But King being 90% of the actual threat bc he's indestructible and Queen is a oneshot character proven twice

 

[grey matter]

Go read the threads before zoro vs lucci.

Just use the search buton here, preferably tap the chapter where luffy fought lucci.

You will laught at the comments and réaction. These are the WG members honest thought before zoro entered the equation.

Everyone were saying lucci will force zoro to use koh and that the fact luffy used g5 against him was a big deal.

you have joined the forum only after zoro started fightning lucci so it make sense that you have no memory of this.

"Lucci was admiral level" possibly existed before Luffy vs Lucci happened, though I don't recall that take ever being popular.
I myself had him possibly at borderline top tier and above or comparable to Zoro back then. Lucci being borderline top tier or in betweener wasn't uncommon back then.

Nobody had Lucci at admiral level or even in-betweener post Luffy vs Lucci, except maybe Luffy fans who wanted to pretend that Luffy was just that strong

 

[Sir Yasheen]

> getting jumped by King and Queen
But King being 90% of the actual threat bc he's indestructible and Queen is a oneshot character proven twice

http://imgur.com/a/cZEpmVo

 

[Crow]

http://imgur.com/a/cZEpmVo

You're implying Zoro knew the full extend of their abilities at this point. Meanwhile I am arguing retrospectively from a position where we actually know their full abilities from various perspectives

 

[Sir Yasheen]

You're implying Zoro knew the full extend of their abilities at this point. Meanwhile I am arguing retrospectively from a position where we actually know their full abilities from various perspectives

http://imgur.com/a/46N3Ztp

Here’s Marco saying it then who was mid combat with both

 

[Crow]

http://imgur.com/a/46N3Ztp

Here’s Marco saying it then who was mid combat with both

Just a little skirmish. Queen did barely use any abilities, King didn't use flame on/off modes strategically. Marco was, at that point, just a means for plot after all.
Also note, he's only referring to them with regards to their bounties.

It was only sparring basically. But sparring against the 2nd and 3rd of the BPs was already too much for Marco. Not surprising, he was carried by Whitebeard his entire life after all.

 

[HA001]

Go cry to oda lol

Marco hurting him was portrayed better than whatever zoro did to flame on king. And marco has the excuse of mythical Phoenix flames bypassing lunarian flames which zoro does not have.


Marco got jumped by king and queen, all the while he was healing the floor, had a scuffle with meme, and was helping out here and there. He ran out of stamina. And he was up within a few minutes and clashing with kaido lol.

King didn't do shit.

Kata has superior coa. He'll hurt king.

Queen stopped fighting when went after the live floor then fought chopper for half an hour and then fought sanji.
In this time king beat the shit out of marco.

Kata has shit coa to zoro who couldnt hurt flame off king.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Just a little skirmish. Queen did barely use any abilities, King didn't use flame on/off modes strategically. Marco was, at that point, just a means for plot after all.
Also note, he's only referring to them with regards to their bounties.

It was only sparring basically. But sparring against the 2nd and 3rd of the BPs was already too much for Marco. Not surprising, he was carried by Whitebeard his entire life after all.

Funny how oda made sure to never let king be hyped up more than Queen. Not even by Marco or the admiral that turned both into fertilizer

 

[Crow]

Funny how oda made sure to never let king be hyped up more than Queen. Not even by Marco or the admiral that turned both into fertilizer

King is hyped more by the fact that he's got a higher bounty of the guy that's known for creating chemical mass destruction weapons. He's more a threat because of his science than his actual powers. Meanwhile king is seen as a threat for being a lunarian. And he has his zoan on top of it.

Couldn't find it so quickly since Google is shit nowadays but Queen was actually hyping King himself while fighting Sanji.

Also feel free to create a scenario where queen beats king (which he cannot bc BP are building hierarchy on strength)