Questions & Mysteries How Ratatoskr fused with Ragnir?

[Impact]

You are allowed to question the story itself, you know.

The key here is what Jarul said concerning its passing and the facts as we know them.

1. The 1st Ratatoskr was separate from Ragnir.

2. The only way we know to combine an object and a living creature it is to make the object eat a devil fruit.

Jarul merely told a story and the narrative may be slightly different from the truth. Saying it died and left it's soul in the hammer could just be the way he is interpreting the event.

Conclusion, the Ice Squirrel did exist and it did die, but it became a myth, and a devil fruit was produced. Ragnir ate that devil fruit through an unknown process.

Taking a separate conclusion puts us on a slippery slope toward magical or wishful thinking. We don't know if an Ice Squirrel can just force it's soul into an object that way. If we are taking Jarul's words as the pure and honest truth, then that's what happened, but it's really questionable. To err on the side of caution here means we must assume the only logical option left- Ragnir ate a Ratatoskr devil fruit in a convoluted way and Jarul now just thinks Ratatoskr put his soul in it.

Interestingly, there is a simple way to prove this. If Ragnir has a devil fruit, then put it in water and see if the devil fruit powers stop working. if it's just a soul in a hammer like Jarul says, then it shouldn't have any problem with doing that, right? Then again, it was also chained up with seastone, wasn't it? That right there could be the definitive reasoning to reach the proper conclusion.

Ragnir/Ratatoskr was chained up and couldn't transform, could he? Why didn't Ratatoskr try to transform and save Loki from Shamrock and Gunko?

 

[DarkestKnightofSpoilers]

If Ragnir is the spirit of Ratatoskr of the past,why does it not have an reaction to Luffy in G5 ?

 

[Moewu]

Klabautermann are kind of curious, with this line of thinking. They kind of fit and they kind of don't. Because most ships DO have a lot of metal as part of their makeup, like nails and beams and whatnot. But, mostly they're made of wood. And, I don't know if you know this or not, but wood is not a metal. Even if we assume some wood has slightly "metallic properties", like maybe Adam Wood could, not all ships are made of Adam Wood. The Merry was just made of ordinary wood, as far as we know. So, that doesn't quite fit with the other examples of metal somehow being important to the process.

My gut says that Klabautermann are related to this process, but not quite the same. "Cousins" as it were.

In my head, the difference is how many people are "engraving" their souls into the object.

Most of the other examples of objects with "souls" inside of them only involve ONE strong willed person "engraving" their soul into the object. One person, "engraving" one soul, into one object.

But, Klabautermann are different just due to the fact that the entire crew of the ship is involved in the process. Every member of the crew puts a little piece of their heart and soul into the same object, together. Maybe because they're all working together, it allows them to "engrave" their souls into objects that aren't metal?

If it's just one person working by themselves, they NEED to use a "hard" object like metal in order to keep their soul inside the object.

But, if a bunch of people work together, all the different "soul pieces" end up helping to keep each other together, knitting together in a way, so they can be transferred into a "softer" object, like wood. Each soul "holding on" to each other.

It could basically be another form of "The Power of Love" that we keep hearing about in the story. From what I can tell so far, "Love" requires multiple people to work together towards the same goal. "Group Haki" is the way that I think about it personally. So, Klabautermann would be a natural product of that "Love". A "child" born from a crew's "Love" for each other, and their ship. A combination of all their souls working together, towards a common goal. A manifestation of their shared dream.

...Which is SUPER CHEESY, I'll admit. But, I think something along these lines is possibly what Oda is going for. Hopefully, we see Klabautermann come back into the story, eventually. (Which isn't impossible, if The Man Marked By Flames turns out to be Roger's ship the Oro Jackson, like I think it could be. But, that's a theory for another time.)



Part of me wonders if Seastone could also be involved in this?

Now, Seastone isn't necessarily a metal. But, it does get TREATED a lot like a metal, in most cases. It's exceptionally hard. It's used in objects that you would expect to be made of metal, like handcuffs and weapons and even the undersides of Marine ships. So, at the very least, I think it can work as a form of metal for this process.

So, it's not impossible that Seastone has it's effects on Devil Fruit users, because all Seastone is "engraved" with the soul of someone or possibly a group of people. The power to weaken Devil Fruit Users may come from some "spirit" within the metal. Maybe the Sea God? Or maybe the Dragon race? Or maybe some sort of Demon King, like Tot Musica? Someone with a grudge against Devil Fruit Users, who would want to hurt or control them.

Whoever it is, it's probably someone or something "imprisoned" in the center of the planet. Because one thing that's important about Seastone is that it's released from volcanoes. So, my pet theory is, something is frozen in the center of the planet. After the "Forbidden Sun" was mined, something was imprisoned in the empty "quarry" that got left behind, and frozen. And the "steam" from them slowly unthawing is what's "infecting" rocks and minerals and metals with their properties, turning them into Seastone.


I don't know, stuff to think about. Again, I could be on the wrong track with ALL of this. But, there's enough going on with souls and metal that I think Oda is going to end up revealing something along these lines.

You brought up some cool points to think about, it doesn't matter if it turns out wrong or right at the end.

Speculating is fun; we just need more information.

 

[Kung-Fu Dugong]

If Ragnir is the spirit of Ratatoskr of the past,why does it not have an reaction to Luffy in G5 ?

Maybe it's an ancient Nika (the first one)? The Nika before Joy Boy? This one looks nothing alike Luffy or the og Joy Boy, besides the white hair and maybe the goofiness.

 

[D. Plant]

Turning into devil fruit means the memory will get wiped.

Using law's fruit ability to swap personality doesn't allow transformation.

Transfering soul or spirit doesn't seems like it can allow transformation either, that's what I think as we have never seen any soul transfer in the story.

The appearance has a little different and that can easily be explained. It's just like any zoan's hybrid form, a certain feature of the human's feature will be displayed along the zoan. So when a different looking human eat the same zoan, the hybrid form will looked different. For this situation, it reminds me of Stronger eating a Pegasus devil fruit. The same thing can be apply to Ratatoskr that it's actually a squirrel who ate a mythical Ratatoskr devil fruit. And that his name was given the same as the devil fruit.

I feel like the more I dive into the explanation, the more nonsense it sounds because Jarul never mentioned about the Ragnir's devil fruit. I think Galleila giant is one viable option. Another option is advance technology that are yet to be shown.

 

[OykotsTreasure]

There's a little bit of a update. According to Artur, the Japanese word being used for what Ragnir is doing is "noriutsuri" (乗り移り). Meaning "possession".

(Jump to 24:08 to get to the part about the word.)

And that word, apparently, does have certain connotations about being "possessed" by a ghost. Though, it can also mean to transfer into a different "vehicle". So, it can have either supernatural OR technological implications. Which is a little unhelpful, but still.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/のりうつる

So, it seems possible that Oda could hinting that something ghost-y is happening with whatever it is Ratatoskr the Squirrel did to "possess" Ragnir the Hammer. Even though, Artur, himself, is coming to different conclusions. With a "Squirrel Fruit User" existing as the sidekick, instead of just being a "pet" Squirrel. So, we'll see what happens.

 

[Yoho]

I don't know why i didn't think of this before but what if the former uesr of the Soul Soul fruit was the one who put Rataoskr soul into the hammer?

 

[Dickie D. Dick]

The squirrel married the hammer and become one with it

 

[OykotsTreasure]

I don't know why i didn't think of this before but what if the former uesr of the Soul Soul fruit was the one who put Rataoskr soul into the hammer?

I like this line of thinking. But, the problem is that what we've seen of Big Mom's Soul Fruit seems to point to it not working like that.

The Soul Fruit doesn't seem to give objects personalities based on the souls that get put inside of them. The Soul Fruit just takes "life energy" and brings the objects themselves to life. The objects themselves seem to have personalities of their own. Not personalities based on who they get their "soul" from. The Soul Fruit just seems to work as a way to transfer life energy from one being to another.

I suppose it COULD work like that, if Oda wanted it to. The previous user of the Fruit could have used it differently than Big Mom did. Maybe the user from the First World knew some technique that Big Mom never learned. But, from what we've seen, it doesn't really work like that.

Which is weird, frankly. You'd think it would work like that. But Moria's Shadow Fruit seems to work more like that, than Big Mom's Soul Fruit does. We saw that Oars got Luffy's personality after his Shadow got put inside of him. But, as far as I remember, none of the Homies that Big Mom created acted like the people who's souls got put into them.

So, that means it'd actually be more likely that Ratatoskr COULD have gotten a previous user of the Shadow Fruit to put his Shadow into Ragnir the Hammer. Ratatoskr's original body would have vaporized when he next saw the sun. But, the Hammer with his Shadow inside of it would be okay. And, again, as we saw with Oars, the Shadow can determine the "shape" of the body. The body "twists" to take on any form the Shadow takes. So, given centuries to work with, I guess a Shadow could MAYBE "train" their new body to look almost exactly like their old body? Thus, explaining how Ragnir can transform back and forth between it's forms? The problem with the Shadow Fruit is....if that was the case, then Ragnir shouldn't have Ratatoskr's memories. Which it seems to have, given how loyal it's been about protecting the Nidhogg Fruit. But, again, maybe there's some secret technique for transferring memories that Moria never learned?

I really don't think that's what's happening here. I think it's some other process that we haven't gotten explained to us, yet. But, Shadow Fruit powers probably make more sense than Soul Fruit powers. Weirdly enough. Neither perfectly explain the situation, though.

The biggest problem with ANY Fruit power causing this, is that Ratatoskr and the War God probably existed during the First World. If they were rivals with the original Nika. And, I feel like the Chapter 1138 Mural hints that Devil Fruits didn't come into existence until the Forest God created them during the Second World. So, if some sort "Devil Fruit-like" power caused this, it's probably the ORIGINAL form of the power. Not the "copied" power that comes from the Devil Fruits.

So, personally, I think whatever caused Ratatoskr's "possession" is likely a power that predates Devil Fruits. But, time will tell.

 

[Yoho]

I like this line of thinking. But, the problem is that what we've seen of Big Mom's Soul Fruit seems to point to it not working like that.

The Soul Fruit doesn't seem to give objects personalities based on the souls that get put inside of them. The Soul Fruit just takes "life energy" and brings the objects themselves to life. The objects themselves seem to have personalities of their own. Not personalities based on who they get their "soul" from. The Soul Fruit just seems to work as a way to transfer life energy from one being to another.

I suppose it COULD work like that, if Oda wanted it to. The previous user of the Fruit could have used it differently than Big Mom did. But, from what we've seen, it doesn't really work like that.

Which is weird, frankly. You'd think it would work like that. But Moria's Shadow Fruit seems to work more like that, than Big Mom's Soul Fruit does. We saw that Oars got Luffy's personality after his Shadow got put inside of him. But, as far as I remember, none of the Homies that Big Mom created acted like the people who's souls got put into them.

So, that means it'd actually be more likely that Ratatoskr COULD have gotten a previous user of the Shadow Fruit to put his Shadow into Ragnir the Hammer. Ratatoskr's original body would have vaporized when he next saw the sun. But, the Hammer with his Shadow inside of it would be okay. And, again, as we saw with Oars, the Shadow can determine the "shape" of the body. The body "twists" to take on any form the Shadow takes. So, given centuries to work with, I guess a Shadow could MAYBE "train" their new body to look almost exactly like their old body? Thus, explaining how Ragnir can transform back and forth between it's forms?

I really don't think that's what's happening here. I think it's some other process that we haven't gotten explained to us, yet. But, Shadow Fruit powers probably make more sense than Soul Fruit powers. Weirdly enough.

You make good points but the thing with big mom and her homies as far as we know she never put 100% of a soul into an object or creature it's always partial maybe if she took 100% of a soul and put it into something?

 

[Loki D. Terror]

Ancient tech most likely