Chapter Discussion One Piece Chapter 1176: WITH GREAT PRIDE
- Thread starter Loki D. Terror
- Start date
Nah, sometimes are as simple as what Oda has his characters say. Your arguments are pretty much just nuance baiting and creating your own conclusions through headcanon.
Again, for all your boasting and indulgence about how good and deep your interpretations are, you even are relying on saying he ¨probably¨ wants to make things right.
There´s no implication he wants to fix any of the worlds problems in the manga because they don´t exist lol. Xebecs goal is to become King of the world in and of itself, not become a tireless advocate for the people and a down to earth politican. The fact that he never spends time talking about what he does after he gets power tells us enough already. Xebec is traveling to countries looking for the strongest people in them and trying to recruit them, not deeply analyzing their specific problems as part of a goal to make the world a better place. Wanting power in and of itself isn´t heroic, and making claims to sovereignty over the entire world because of your families history isn´t exactly inherently good either. We know that Xebecs son who would inherit the throne is evil, and we know that his crew(who would be the government, I guess?) are mostly evil characters like Big Mom, Kaido and Shiki. Obviously, this wouldn´t be an ideal situation for the world.
The reason is just Oda showing that the world of OP is hillariously corrupt. It doesn´t mean anyones intentions are noble here. Big Mom is not a ¨good character¨, we´re introduced to her threatening to destroy the entire country of FMI. People like her stealing things is not done for noble reasons. I would argue it´s not ethical or unethical, as long as they just keep the money for themselves.
What are you talking about? There´s plenty of villains in the flashback, Garling and Imu are obvious ones. But even Harald is highlighted as a villain by the narrator
And Rocks specifically thinks him going around plundering countries for the lolz, is a good thing and Elbaf should return to that.
¨Elbaf has the greatest warriors in the world. If Something churns your stomache, you should just crush it¨
Which is canonically how Rocks lives his life
Honestly, if Rocks is a good guy, I´m not sure exactly why Doflamingo isn´t. He´s also a pirate who knows the government is corrupt, if that´s the new standard.
Again, for all your boasting and indulgence about how good and deep your interpretations are, you even are relying on saying he ¨probably¨ wants to make things right.
There´s no implication he wants to fix any of the worlds problems in the manga because they don´t exist lol. Xebecs goal is to become King of the world in and of itself, not become a tireless advocate for the people and a down to earth politican. The fact that he never spends time talking about what he does after he gets power tells us enough already. Xebec is traveling to countries looking for the strongest people in them and trying to recruit them, not deeply analyzing their specific problems as part of a goal to make the world a better place. Wanting power in and of itself isn´t heroic, and making claims to sovereignty over the entire world because of your families history isn´t exactly inherently good either. We know that Xebecs son who would inherit the throne is evil, and we know that his crew(who would be the government, I guess?) are mostly evil characters like Big Mom, Kaido and Shiki. Obviously, this wouldn´t be an ideal situation for the world.
The reason is just Oda showing that the world of OP is hillariously corrupt. It doesn´t mean anyones intentions are noble here. Big Mom is not a ¨good character¨, we´re introduced to her threatening to destroy the entire country of FMI. People like her stealing things is not done for noble reasons. I would argue it´s not ethical or unethical, as long as they just keep the money for themselves.
What are you talking about? There´s plenty of villains in the flashback, Garling and Imu are obvious ones. But even Harald is highlighted as a villain by the narrator
And Rocks specifically thinks him going around plundering countries for the lolz, is a good thing and Elbaf should return to that.
¨Elbaf has the greatest warriors in the world. If Something churns your stomache, you should just crush it¨
Which is canonically how Rocks lives his life
Honestly, if Rocks is a good guy, I´m not sure exactly why Doflamingo isn´t. He´s also a pirate who knows the government is corrupt, if that´s the new standard.
You say over-analysis, I say being vigilant and in fact receptive to details.
The young fanbase reads 20 manga/products and simply doesn't care to analyse the opera in that depth, doesn't rememebr what character X said back in SKypiea (90% of the casuals said Skypea was a filler arc, jsut for it to be basically the most important of OP lol) and anyway has not done this for (sigh) decades, like some of us have done.
Which is totally ok btw, I have nothing against people who don't really care about some problems. Sometimes small, sometimes big, but if those don't bother you, they shouldn't. I myself am much less strict about other products, but I also spend 1/100 of the time talking about them.
The young fanbase reads 20 manga/products and simply doesn't care to analyse the opera in that depth, doesn't rememebr what character X said back in SKypiea (90% of the casuals said Skypea was a filler arc, jsut for it to be basically the most important of OP lol) and anyway has not done this for (sigh) decades, like some of us have done.
Which is totally ok btw, I have nothing against people who don't really care about some problems. Sometimes small, sometimes big, but if those don't bother you, they shouldn't. I myself am much less strict about other products, but I also spend 1/100 of the time talking about them.
Dramatic irony. Something being the cause of death that the character doesn't even take seriously, at first.
Showing us that Rocks is overestimating his own abilities. And trying to do too much himself. That he thinks he's stronger than he is, against such a powerful foe.
Showing us that Imu can have VERY fine control. And does no more than is necessary in order to achieve their goals. Showing that Imu can be very subtle, in their way.
Showing us, the audience, that even a literally very small mistake can ruin all your years of plans and dreams.
There could be a few different reasons. And, I think they work well enough, myself.
I could be wrong about this. I'll admit that. But, I think it explains a lot. It's not a flawless explanation, but I think it is what Oda's going for.
Showing us that Rocks is overestimating his own abilities. And trying to do too much himself. That he thinks he's stronger than he is, against such a powerful foe.
Showing us that Imu can have VERY fine control. And does no more than is necessary in order to achieve their goals. Showing that Imu can be very subtle, in their way.
Showing us, the audience, that even a literally very small mistake can ruin all your years of plans and dreams.
There could be a few different reasons. And, I think they work well enough, myself.
I could be wrong about this. I'll admit that. But, I think it explains a lot. It's not a flawless explanation, but I think it is what Oda's going for.
I don't know, I think it's problematic.
Oda could have easily shown Imu inflciting a mortal wound and then DRing Xebec, which could've also explained why Xebec was DRed without putting up any resistance whatsoever. I think it would have been a win-win.
Though again: I am not against this explanation. I prefer think that the dialogue is strange than the scene being absurd. There is still the problem of Xebec's relatives, but what can we do?
Oda could have easily shown Imu inflciting a mortal wound and then DRing Xebec, which could've also explained why Xebec was DRed without putting up any resistance whatsoever. I think it would have been a win-win.
Though again: I am not against this explanation. I prefer think that the dialogue is strange than the scene being absurd. There is still the problem of Xebec's relatives, but what can we do?
Yeah...
Well this is useless to keep the discussion going. You won't listen. Keep thinking that there is nothing to understand and keep the hate flowing. I won't debate on Xebec for hours on end.
Just understand something, i've been reading One Piece for more than 20+ years, I'm probably what of the oldest fan here, and despite that... I'm still liking it like the first day I started so ask yourself why.
Am I really stupid ? Or am I understanding something you don't ? I will leave the question hanging. I'm done for tonight.
No I mean that the opposite actually happens.. The younger fanbase, actually pays a lot more attention to detail. For a good reason, they have a lot less spaces of reading between these details.
The older fanbase (this forum), is locked on a loop of over analysis on meaningless stuff (powerscaling, parasocial behaviors etc.) They do not take the reality of the global story into account. Which creates missunderstandings.
For exemple, the reactors have a much better understanding that we do or did (I can see the differences of understanding between someone who watches Water Seven now and when we read it back in the days). The understanding of the deepness of the narration is completely different. The younger generation (at least the one who binge read or bingewatch) absorbs much better the meaning of the story.
Anyway.. i've talked enough. i'm done for tonight.
Well this is useless to keep the discussion going. You won't listen. Keep thinking that there is nothing to understand and keep the hate flowing. I won't debate on Xebec for hours on end.
Just understand something, i've been reading One Piece for more than 20+ years, I'm probably what of the oldest fan here, and despite that... I'm still liking it like the first day I started so ask yourself why.
Am I really stupid ? Or am I understanding something you don't ? I will leave the question hanging. I'm done for tonight.
No I mean that the opposite actually happens.. The younger fanbase, actually pays a lot more attention to detail. For a good reason, they have a lot less spaces of reading between these details.
The older fanbase (this forum), is locked on a loop of over analysis on meaningless stuff (powerscaling, parasocial behaviors etc.) They do not take the reality of the global story into account. Which creates missunderstandings.
For exemple, the reactors have a much better understanding that we do or did (I can see the differences of understanding between someone who watches Water Seven now and when we read it back in the days). The understanding of the deepness of the narration is completely different. The younger generation (at least the one who binge read or bingewatch) absorbs much better the meaning of the story.
Anyway.. i've talked enough. i'm done for tonight.
Then let's say this: they spend their time looking at other things. Even though my experience is the opposite: we - in general - spend much more time talking about OP, basically everything abiut OP, even though sure, we like powerscaling nonsense debates simply because they are fun and we like them. And we like to argue, it's pretty clear.
Forums themselves are for pretty hardcore fans these days.
Usually, the younger generation doesn't remember names, dialogues, details, etc.
But it's normal: binge reading or bingewatching don't make you do that. Unless you are like a mnemonic monster, you need to see and see again (or read, again and again and again) to remember. And even when you do, when you remember the extra material too, there are simply some connections you don't get, points of view you don't catch, meanings you don't really get.
That only happens when you spend years reading something, talking about something, discussing something and reading an enormous amount of opinions from others as we do.
New people probably get the flow of the story in one go, because it's all they can get the first time they catch up.
Forums themselves are for pretty hardcore fans these days.
Usually, the younger generation doesn't remember names, dialogues, details, etc.
But it's normal: binge reading or bingewatching don't make you do that. Unless you are like a mnemonic monster, you need to see and see again (or read, again and again and again) to remember. And even when you do, when you remember the extra material too, there are simply some connections you don't get, points of view you don't catch, meanings you don't really get.
That only happens when you spend years reading something, talking about something, discussing something and reading an enormous amount of opinions from others as we do.
New people probably get the flow of the story in one go, because it's all they can get the first time they catch up.
Noticeably, you don´t really have anything to say here at all. Your grand point is that you think that Xebec probably wanted to make the world a better place, after paragraphs of self indulgence, and glazing. If you have a opinion, just leave it and go. There´s not really anything more to say.
I honestly can´t think of anything more pretentious and retarded than creating rhetorical questions ¨hanging¨ on an OP site with a simple argument about what a characters goal is.
I honestly can´t think of anything more pretentious and retarded than creating rhetorical questions ¨hanging¨ on an OP site with a simple argument about what a characters goal is.
Even when you take poison off the table, there's a like million other ways he can respond.
Dude mastered all basic types of nature types, can summon demonic gates, perform high level sealing jutsu, barrier jutsu, instantly regenerate himself, and so on and so forth.
I'm not even positive absorbing his chakra would come without a cost given his nature.
Dude mastered all basic types of nature types, can summon demonic gates, perform high level sealing jutsu, barrier jutsu, instantly regenerate himself, and so on and so forth.
I'm not even positive absorbing his chakra would come without a cost given his nature.
Does Orochimaru have some crazy Boruto feats that I’m unaware of lol? Because I really have no clue how you envision any of these working out.
Do you think Orochimaru is gonna pull out some mountain sized fire style jutsu to evaporate the water dome?
When did Orochimaru ever show a sealing Jutsu capable of sealing a mountain of water???
When did Orochimaru ever show a large scale poison Jutsu? If he tries to poison the water, it’s gonna get very diluted and probably fall below whatever the lethal dosage would be for Kisame
I don’t see how summoning Manda is gonna help him. The water dome dwarfs even Manda, so Manda will just drown along with Orochimaru. And Kisame can also just send his 1000 sharks to tear Manda to pieces
Do you think Orochimaru is gonna pull out some mountain sized fire style jutsu to evaporate the water dome?
When did Orochimaru ever show a sealing Jutsu capable of sealing a mountain of water???
When did Orochimaru ever show a large scale poison Jutsu? If he tries to poison the water, it’s gonna get very diluted and probably fall below whatever the lethal dosage would be for Kisame
I don’t see how summoning Manda is gonna help him. The water dome dwarfs even Manda, so Manda will just drown along with Orochimaru. And Kisame can also just send his 1000 sharks to tear Manda to pieces
@soupongo Even though I think Kisame > Orochimaru, I won’t pretend like there isn’t a serious possibility that Kishimoto would draw Orochimaru winning that fight somehow.
But I think that, barring Edo Tensei, you can pretty much only argue for Orochimaru winning through portrayal rather than feats. Kisame’s feats are just straight up better, but that could just be because of powercreep
But I think that, barring Edo Tensei, you can pretty much only argue for Orochimaru winning through portrayal rather than feats. Kisame’s feats are just straight up better, but that could just be because of powercreep
Sure, I favor Orochimaru because of portrayal generally. We didn´t really get to see the limit of his abilities, but his story relevance is to insane, and he was making guys like Kakashi freeze themselves in fear.
Idk how many proper 1v1 fights he really has. Orochimaru was messing around against Hiruzen, and was nerfed for pretty much the rest of the manga. And by the time he returns, he ends up as a victim to the totsuka blade and after that in the war he doesn´t do much really
idk about that framing. Isn´t it closer to healing himself? What Orochimaru has is regeneration, he can easily get a limb back.
Idk how many proper 1v1 fights he really has. Orochimaru was messing around against Hiruzen, and was nerfed for pretty much the rest of the manga. And by the time he returns, he ends up as a victim to the totsuka blade and after that in the war he doesn´t do much really
idk about that framing. Isn´t it closer to healing himself? What Orochimaru has is regeneration, he can easily get a limb back.
Kisame had his entire chest blown open and healed from it, I’m pretty sure he could regen a limb too.
Kisame was beating V2 Bee, while 4T Naruto was arguably >= Tenchi Bridge Orochimaru. Sure that version of Orochimaru was nerfed, but even Jiraiya (Orochimaru’s rival) nearly died from fighting 4T Naruto. Kisame scales above the Sannin, though that could just be due to powercreep
Kisame was beating V2 Bee, while 4T Naruto was arguably >= Tenchi Bridge Orochimaru. Sure that version of Orochimaru was nerfed, but even Jiraiya (Orochimaru’s rival) nearly died from fighting 4T Naruto. Kisame scales above the Sannin, though that could just be due to powercreep