Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

So you are a coward.

Burden of proof has got nothing to do with me, or anyone but the one making the claim.

So deflection, dodging burden of proof, moving the goalpost

All to just not have any accountability regarding your bullshit claim i called out.

I'm sorry but I do not reply to this type of injonction. You don't have a dumb masculinist in front of you, I don't have to come on top and I'm not here to "win" the debate even if I like it, I'm here to share my knowledge. If you stop seeing the debate as a battles like I did at the beginning here, come back to me and we will have a real conversation.

But women should still be able to get these abortions you deem wrong?

Are you trying to make a 3D chess move here thinking "I surely got him this time, checkmate" ?

You are not giving me information. It is completely irrelevant to what I said about me not growing up hateful despite my experiences. So you need be hateful to understand systemic problems or something?

You are the one that posted the counter argument that I'm trying to be white or adopt white customs for not ended up the way you assume I should've.

Our fight stands in the context of my radical opposition to the police and the system. You imply here that being like I am (and like all racialized antiracist are), is being "hateful" thus equating the action of not being radically against these things as being "non hatefull".

You are literally showing me that your conception of being "non hateful" is - in regards to what you said here already - to be critical of the system but "not too much" like us. Thus proving what I describe. You still protect the system.

So let me answer you : No you don't have to be hateful. I don't hate anyone.

You're telling what you assume because you need some explanation that's convenient for your agenda. The amount of times you've been "surprised" by my opinions and self awareness while never doing the same for me is very telling.

You always assume there's some "blockage" that prevents people from agreeing eith everything you say.

Indeed I'm sometimes surprised.. but that's mostly because I don't contextualize your position. In reality, your position is logical. The real surprise for me is that you know that the world is shit, and you block any entrance to really understand why.

In such context, it's not really a "blockage", it's more a problem of framing. We are looking both at the same picture, but when I'm looking to it from the front, you are looking at it from a 30° angle and you consider that coming at my position is a dumb thing to do and you see the picture better than I am. The problem is ego.

This is nothing but another attempt by you to find some psychological barrier to explain the great sin of me not agreeing with everything you say. You are the one who linked a psychiatrist that studies white savior mindets as a counter argument to me saying that I didn't become hateful. Learn the basics of debate.

Showing you this was an error in restrospect. Too soon. It's obvious that coming from me, it can only be taken like this.

This is irrelevant to my original post though. Saying otherwise means you are trying to be psychiatrist and knows my mind better than I do despite having no information.

if you knew how I see psychiatrist... you would laugh at your statement here. No. That's not it.

Maybe one day you will see that there are patterns in society that can be analyzed. It's not about psychiatry, it's about sociology.

Hey guess what? These scholars arent suggesting a change in defintion. You are the one that are taking their works and going "You know what? The words should mean this instead!" and then hide behind scholars when their words are irrelevant to you using works incorrectly. Other scholars dont give you the excuse to make up your own versions and thene expect others to follows. You yourself are not a scientist.

Just like you and yet you are adamant on something you don't understand so please, take a second to reflect on your biases.

And ask yourself carefully:

What is your interest in defending the fact that racism can't be directed to white people?

Because you sure are defending that with care right now :)

Dude knows better about the tought processes of people i converse with IRL than me or the people im talking to.

Clearly the great ilLogiko knows best

Right! You are a unique diamant of uniqueness. Your behavior can't be scratched by the horrendus storms of social influences. You are much like a god, intouchable, immuable, absolutely devoided of these social behavior related to patterns that we mere mortals are all experiencing. You are so much more, a single absolutely special ray of wisesness, and I ? I'm the random deluded one but you, in your great uniqueness can't depict obvious and predetermined social interactions that can be predicted and analyzed on the entire planet...

After all, you are above the material and the social. All hail our uniqueness Zenos-Sama, the great unpredictible !!

 

[Midnight Delight]

@Logiko can't you see how hypocritical can you be when you support Maximalist Leftist Policies on everything except for when it effects you?

Only then do you admit the Cracks in the system

You are hardly any different from MAGA People who support borderline fascism except when it comes to subjects that affect them, then out of nowhere want some Social Democracy and fairness

 

[Logiko]

@Logiko can't you see how hypocritical can you be when you support Maximalist Leftist Policies on everything except for when it effects you?

Like?

(never heard the term "maximalist" in this context, wdym by that)?

You are hardly any different from MAGA People who support borderline fascism except when it comes to subjects that affect them, then out of nowhere want some Social Democracy and fairness

huh?



Can you be more specific please? Are you trying to say that I'm too radical or.. not radical enough? I don't get it, wdym?

 

[Rej]

 

[Rej]

 

[Uncle Van]

Our fight stands in the context of my radical opposition to the police and the system. You imply here that being like I am (and like all racialized antiracist are), is being "hateful" thus equating the action of not being radically against these things as being "non hatefull".

See this here is a big showcase of your problem. I did no such thing. Nothing about what I said suggests or imply a connection between hate and being radical.

My posts are obviously critical about your assumptions about me that has been proven wrong and admitted by you time and time again.

And you're once again placing yourself as the representative for others. You always act like leftists should all act the same or in a specific way.

You are literally showing me that your conception of being "non hateful" is - in regards to what you said here already - to be critical of the system but "not too much" like us. Thus proving what I describe. You still protect the system.

So let me answer you : No you don't have to be hateful. I don't hate anyone.

You're doing it again. My posts doesnt say nor imply that being hateful = too critical of the system. You are the one who made a ton of generalized assumptions that I proved wrong by simply existing. You don't have to be filled the emotional hate to heavily critize things.

Indeed I'm sometimes surprised.. but that's mostly because I don't contextualize your position. In reality, your position is logical. The real surprise for me is that you know that the world is shit, and you block any entrance to really understand why.

Once again you assume I don't understand things simply because I disagree with your mountain of generalizations rooted in assumption when applied to me as an individual. For example, cops in general tend to lean right wing so therefore, so assume I myself must lean more that way when that is false. You what you say can be true when spoken in general but become false when you apply to me.

 

[Logiko]

See this here is a big showcase of your problem. I did no such thing. Nothing about what I said suggests or imply a connection between hate and being radical.

Ok. Fair. Let me hold that thoughts then, what do you mean by "being hateful" exactly?

My posts are obviously critical about your assumptions about me that has been proven wrong and admitted by you time and time again.

Nothing about what I said about you was proven wrong mate. Don't mistake me praising you for having a good base knowledge with me contradicting my point about your material interest or your lack of understanding of leftism.

You have good theoritical knowledge. but your framing is backward, this never changed. And it demonstrate very well that surface level knowledge alone can't bring awareness. There must be a shift of positionning and biases.

You always act like leftists should all act the same or in a specific away.

Should all leftist be as radical as I am? Yes. Should all leftist act the same way? I don't believe so.

You're doing it again. My posts doesnt say nor imply that being hateful = too critical of the system. You are the one who made a ton of generalized assumptions that I proved wrong by sinply existing. You don't to be filled the emotional hate to heavily critize things.

Our conversation are contextual. And what you write here resonnates with everything you write otherwise. In the context of our constant back and forth, where you are constantly criticizing the way I talk about politics with the way other people (who think like me) talk, the way you belittle us, the way you consider us as irrationnal.. Me thinking that you equate "hatefull" with being "too radical, or dumbly radical like us" is a perfectly legitimate assumption to have.

I really hope that one day in this thread, you will see that what I say is a rethoric, a knowledge and a vision shared by LARGE movements of activist.

I'm not unique.
I'm not a representant of anyone
I'm not even that radical or angry.

You are in panic mode because I simply don't back done. But my rethoric is not special, it's not arrogant, it's not even new. It's simply distributed with an obsession to make people understand.

I'm simply sharing what I hear with a spicy twist that I never give up on trying. That's fucking all.

You are the one who made a ton of generalized assumptions that I proved wrong by sinply existing.

not really sorry

Once again you assume I don't understand things simply because I disagree with your mountain of generalizations rooted in assumption when applied to me as an individual.

Yup

For example, cops in general tend to lean right wing so therefore, so assume I myself must lean more that way when that is false.

Nop. That's not what I assume at least not exactly. I think there is a pressure of your material condition as a cop, but you being a cop doesn't mean that you lean on the right. Could be the opposite: you being more of a rightist would INFLUENCE the fact that you became a cop.

In such case, you being a cop is a result of your ideology, not something that influences you. But yeah, it's also possible that being a cop makes you more right.. both are possible. Usually it's a bit of both.

I'm not making a clear assumption, i'm just linking your rethoric (you constantly criticizing of my leftism) with your material conditions of existence. As a cop, but ALSO as a moderator. To be fair, you brought the cop thing yourself. What I wanted to do at the beginning is criticizing your position as a moderator since this position is directly impacted by my critics toward the staff. So you have good material reasons to attack me outside of just your ideology. The cop things, just contextualized even more this conflict that we have.

We can stop talking about you being a cop if you want. It will be the same thing with your moderator status. The same logic applies to a much lesser degree.

 

[Uncle Van]

Should all leftist be as radical as I am? Yes. Should all leftist act the same way? I don't believe so.

So you judge people are not thinking exactly like you. Nowhere is it stated that you have to make up definitions and greatly confuse people to be radical though?

I'm not making a clear assumption, i'm just linking your rethoric (you constantly criticizing of my leftism)

There ya go. Not the actual leftism by definition and its historical context, but your personal version. So it is perfectly fine for you to judge the leftism of others, but your self admitted made up version is off limits for criticism and disqualifies others if they do so🤪

Do as I say, not as I do in full throttle

 

[Blax Blah]

I've been reading books of old, the legends and the myths
Achilles and his gold, Hercules and his gifts
Spiderman's control, and Batman with his fists
And clearly I don't see myself upon that list

 

[Blax Blah]

I've been reading books of old, the legends and the myths
Achilles and his gold, Hercules and his gifts
Spiderman's control, and Batman with his fists
And clearly I don't see myself upon that list

LOL this was message 74,747

Come on man God is real stuff like this doesn't just happen

 

[Logiko]

So you judge people are not thinking exactly like you. Nowhere is it stated that you have to make up definitions and greatly confuse people to be radical though?

Politicisation is never easy or everyone would be a radical leftist. Do you think it was easy to understand what i'm trying to explain?

There ya go. Not the actual leftism by definition and its historical context, but your personal version. So it is perfectly fine for you to judge the leftism of others, but your self admitted made up version is off limits for criticism and disqualifies others if they do so🤪

Do as I say, not as I do in full throttle

Yeah. it's the leftism I belong to.. And I'm showing you that you are constantly criticize it. It's a fact. And SO WHAT?

It's quite something, this viceral reaction most of you have when you get challenged in your beliefs system or when someone is telling you "you don't understand". You are clearly not used to that.

The % of replies based on the actual content of my message is abysmally small.. You guyz only have two types of response:

- "You are dumb,, or ignorant, or crazy, or an extremist or some lunatics that does not understand leftism" (without argumentation ofc)
- "waaaaaa waaaaaa all you do is telling people they don't understand, you don't care about our feeeeeeeeeling and you are really disrespectful you ignorant punk" (Not even an exageration)

3000 pages!
3000 freaking pages of whining - from both side, I include myself - because you people have someone in front of you that does not give up trying to politicize you and you can't take it, pushing me to justify myself CONSTANTLY on the legitimacy of my remarks.

Yes, sometimes I go a bit too far, but my argumentation is no different than any other activist. I'm a nice one in fact. Most communist and marxist I know would look at this place and insult the descendance of each one of the reactionnary and fake leftist here while insulting me at the same time for keeping the discussion open and keeping the hope of politicizing you.. Before exiting with a big "fuck you all".


It would be time to understand the type of thread we are interacting in. It's not called "let's agree on politics", it's called "general political discussion". This includes debate and people judging the political vision of others. It's part of the game.

Politics is a question of life and death. Don't expect people to ask others nicely to change a vision that risk to destroy people they love or respect. People like us need to go for the throat and it is perfectly legitimate. (it's a metaphor, I never know with you..)

At best i'm saying "you don't understand" at worse I will be sarcastic or a bit spicy or will label politically. I might be tired of the constant eternal movement of outofsubject critics that comes EACH time I make a freaking statement. I have other things to do than to constantly whine because people are telling me "you are wrong stoopid".

If I consider that your vision is depoliticised, hurtfull, unethical and prevents change to happen .. yeah. I will judge. Or at least I will show you a more politicized vision in line with materialist, intersectional and scientific praxis.

So let's stop whining. Let's not act as this thread is some heavenly place of respect where I happen to be the only one to be politically pushy. Answer to my post. If you don't like them, create a counter argumentations. Let's stop - me or you people - going for the form so we can finally move the F on and have a real debate on real data.

The patience I have with you people sometimes...

 

[Blax Blah]

This is my dog, Booboo

 

[Zenos7]

I'm sorry but I do not reply to this type of injonction. You don't have a dumb masculinist in front of you, I don't have to come on top and I'm not here to "win" the debate even if I like it, I'm here to share my knowledge. If you stop seeing the debate as a battles like I did at the beginning here, come back to me and we will have a real conversation.

Nothing you say here is any relevant to me or what i said.

I dont view debates as battles, and we dont debate here anyway. We discuss shit. Very different concepts.

But yeah, no surprise that you are deflecting like crazy

 

[Zenos7]

Are you trying to make a 3D chess move here thinking "I surely got him this time, checkmate" ?

1) dont people usually say 4D chess?

2) no, im seriously curious

 

[Zenos7]

Right! You are a unique diamant of uniqueness. Your behavior can't be scratched by the horrendus storms of social influences. You are much like a god, intouchable, immuable, absolutely devoided of these social behavior related to patterns that we mere mortals are all experiencing. You are so much more, a single absolutely special ray of wisesness, and I ? I'm the random deluded one but you, in your great uniqueness can't depict obvious and predetermined social interactions that can be predicted and analyzed on the entire planet...

After all, you are above the material and the social. All hail our uniqueness Zenos-Sama, the great unpredictible !!

Keep the cope up, this is hilarious.

Yet once again completely irrelevant to what we are saying, and you being comically unaware of your arrogant behaviour in which you know better than everyone and their mothers about their thought processes, opinions and decisions.

 

[Zenos7]

Too soon. It's obvious that coming from me, it can only be taken like this.

Sweetheart, the world doesnt revolve around you.

@Uncle Van and plenty others here have enough integrity and intellectual honesty to judge your bullshit solely based on what is written, and not by who wrote it.

 

[Zenos7]

What is your interest in defending the fact that racism can't be directed to white people?

The only interest in that is it is fucking untrue.

Get over it or cry silently

 

[Zenos7]

See this here is a big showcase of your problem. I did no such thing. Nothing about what I said suggests or imply a connection between hate and being radical.

At this point i seriously dont think this is a language barrier issue.

Logiko is just disingenuous as fuck.

 

[Logiko]

I dont view debates as battles, and we dont debate here anyway. We discuss shit. Very different concepts.

Indeed. I debate, you complain.

2) no, im seriously curious

Usually it's the doctors that are responsible for the lack of information. So I don't blame women (i don't have a say in the way they use their body). I don't want to individualize the problem which is the system.

Keep the cope up, this is hilarious.

Yet once again completely irrelevant to what we are saying, and you being comically unaware of your arrogant behaviour in which you know better than everyone and their mothers about their thought processes, opinions and decisions.

I'm perfectly aware when I'm taunting you mate. Don't worry. I just consider it perfectly legitimate.

Sweetheart, the world doesnt revolve around you.

@Uncle Van and plenty others here have enough integrity and intellectual honesty to judge your bullshit solely based on what is written, and not by who wrote it.

Perhaps. I've yet to see that. But I like surprises

The only interest in that is it is fucking untrue.

Get over it or cry silently

It seems to be very important to you

At this point i seriously dont think this is a language barrier issue.

Logiko is just disingenuous as fuck.

No indeed. It's a critical mindset and an ego problem issue. To look at the sources of the problem, analyse here who is capable of admitting to be wrong and who can't take it

 

[NikaInParis]

?l

It's quite something, this viceral reaction most of you have when you get challenged in your beliefs system or when someone is telling you "you don't understand". You are clearly not used to that.

Said by the person this most applies to