Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love

[Welkin]

If the argument is that this is a transitional arc in which Imu is not going to get defeated here thus no real need to pit his top brass against Zoro and Sanji then the likelihood of Zoro and Sanji not getting any conclusive matchups is much higher than them being put against Bummers and Bellingham much less killing them. In trransitional arcs, Sanji never gets conclusive 1 v 1s only clashes.

I see the angle you're getting at with the Holy Knights being Imu's archilees heel but it's pretty hard to imagine Oda having Zoro and Sanji kill characters on panel. Never really happened before so I doubt OP suddenly becomes JJK.



I'm referring to the grandline in particularly. Kuroobi was a scrub even to Sanji so that isn't really a viable argument. Disagree on the rest. Can very easily see Luffy struggling as much Sanji did against Bentham he's a airhead 💀. Needless to say he would also struggle against Mr1. Likewise Luffy prior to his ACoC awakening ain't beating King and even though he's vastly superior to Queen in combat, he'd struggle against Queen's hax particularly is invicibilty not to mention Queen has his plagues as well. These guys are not a wash for Luffy regardless of whether he was able to tango with Kaido or not.




I completely disagree on the notion that the Holy Knights are this so called formidable force at the very least not Bummers and Kiringham who are the subject of our discussion. Moreover beating the non M3 SHs is nothing to write home about. Perorin negg'd Brook and Chopper on WCI. I'm not really sure where this confidence that weaklings who have been getting clowned by every competent combatant they've gone against so far and even gotten clowned by bloody Franky are suddenly going to become formidabble opponents for Zoro and Sanji because Daddy Imu gave them an amp boost but regardless I'm tired of arguing this notion that the Holy Knights are worth shit.


Broski I'm sorry but I'm not having this false equivalence that Queen's treatment is somehow the same as Bummers and Bellignham and I'm pretty sure I already made that disctinction in my prior post. Same asinine argument that Tesla's been making as well but we can disagree on this.

I can understand the argument that Bummners and Bellingham are the next best ting available after Imu on Elbaf atm but this attempt to gaslight us into believing that they aren't the bums that they are is not really flying with me and I'm not really tryna argue something that is bloody obvious. These fools are getting clowned even in the JP fanbase and the Japanese folks are not even about power levels like we are in the western fanbase that is how absolute toilet they've been so far.

We keep going in circles so it’s pointless to discuss any further because most of it comes down to opinion. I’m pretty confident that Sanji is a lock to fight a Holy Knight this arc though

So confident that I’m down to do an avy bet of any duration

I have one going with Yasheen already but he worded it in a way that he might be able to slip through the cracks

In this case our bet would simply be whether Sanji has a full fight with Killingham, Sommers, or Gunko (highly unlikely) this arc or not

 

[Rumble]

Dude, he got easily defeated by Kaido and later overcame him in same arc

This where the dominance of Haki comes in.

The path forward for the Wings is not becoming stronger physically.

It's learning advanced forms of Haki.

Just look at how many examples we've gotten of advanced Conqueror's Haki in Elbaph alone.

Spoiler: ch 1149

Spoiler: ch 1161

Spoiler: ch 1163

Spoiler: ch 1164

Spoiler: ch 1165

Spoiler: ch 1170

 

[Rumble]

He's a pretty cool antagonist in my book. He's like a "love to hate" kinda guy and I rock with those characters

This fandom also has a long running struggle with comprehending when characters are acting out of impunity.

Just observe the illiterate takes on Robin's supposed impact versus Sommers. That shit is embarrassing to read knowing she doesn't even possess basic Armament.

 

[Welkin]

This fandom also has a long running struggle with comprehending when characters are acting out of impunity.

Just observe the illiterate takes of Robin's supposed impact versus Sommers. That shit is embarrassing to read knowing she doesn't even possess basic Armament.

It’s kinda surprising to me that some people here actually believe that Robin did anything to Sommers… like at all

The same guy who kept talking through the transponder snail while being “attacked” before attaching a rope to stop himself from falling (calmly) and then continuing on with his speech (also insta trapped Robin as soon as he got back up)

Like I know yall hate the Holy Knights but it’s mind boggling that some people read that scene and perceive it as an L. Is it an L that Gunko got hit by Usopp’s shot before counter attacking?

No? Why? Because she didn’t care to stop him or dodge the attack

 

[RayanOO]

It’s kinda surprising to me that some people here actually believe that Robin did anything to Sommers… like at all

The same guy who kept talking through the transponder snail while being “attacked” before attaching a rope to stop himself from falling (calmly) and then continuing on with his speech (also insta trapped Robin as soon as he got back up)

Like I know yall hate the Holy Knights but it’s mind boggling that some people read that scene and perceive it as an L. Is it an L that Gunko got hit by Usopp’s shot before counter attacking?

No? Why? Because she didn’t care to stop him or dodge the attack

Sommers can do this (and also neg Saul) he is obviously stronger than Robin even outside regen hax

 

[FutureWarrior123]

Sommers and Killingham being around Cracker or Smoothie level is a fair placement.

 

[Welkin]

Sommers can do this (and also neg Saul) he is obviously stronger than Robin even outside regen hax

I was gonna say his feats of being able to clash with Old Gaban alone put him far above just about any Strawhat barring the M3 and maybe Jinbei

His thorns are also insanely durable. Gaban’s the only character that’s managed to cut them so far iirc

Even Zoro knocked the thorns from his Thorn Launcher attack away instead of actually slicing them (though I don’t doubt that he could if he really wanted to)

And I highly doubt that we’ve seen either Sommers or Killingham’s full kits

 

[FutureWarrior123]

Sommers can do this (and also neg Saul) he is obviously stronger than Robin even outside regen hax

There is no fucking way Oda would draw even a single panel of Who’s Who or Ulti trading blows with an ACoC user.

 

[MegaSpider]

Sommers and Killingham being around Cracker or Smoothie level is a fair placement.

Which is generally the level Franky and Jimbe should be at.
Also 1 things everyone's forgetting, there's 3 HK and 7 non-M3 strawhats (+ others like Dorry/Broggy). These don't have to be 1v1 fights.

 

[Jackteo]

Which is generally the level Franky and Jimbe should be at.
Also 1 things everyone's forgetting, there's 3 HK and 7 non-M3 strawhats (+ others like Dorry/Broggy). These don't have to be 1v1 fights.

An immortal Jinbe boosted by an Omen seems a good opponent for CoCless Sanji

 

[MegaSpider]

An immortal Jinbe boosted by an Omen seems a good opponent for CoCless Sanji

CoCless Sanji 1 shot Killingham though. Omen boost isn't pushing him from 1 shot opponent to high dif fight.
And I doubt omen gives him the haki skills needed to fight Sanji, like Future sight. Guy could not react to Sanji at all.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

We keep going in circles so it’s pointless to discuss any further because most of it comes down to opinion. I’m pretty confident that Sanji is a lock to fight a Holy Knight this arc though

So confident that I’m down to do an avy bet of any duration

I have one going with Yasheen already but he worded it in a way that he might be able to slip through the cracks

In this case our bet would simply be whether Sanji has a full fight with Killingham, Sommers, or Gunko (highly unlikely) this arc or not

Don’t do bets. You can clown me after the fact if either Bummers or Bellingham prove to be formidable opponents of the wings coz best believe I will do the same if they don’t.

Like I've said many times already I acknowledge that these bums are currently the next best ting available after Imu on the island but I don't for a second believe that they are strong enough to mount any sort of challenge to either Zoro or Sanji. So you're gonna have to hold that if they get one-tapped again.

Imagine wings struggling against Bummers & Bellingham after getting one-tapped by Imu 😂 (don’t think this forum will be able to survive that 💀 neither does it compute from a story telling perspective in my head but I digress)

 

[RayanOO]

Imagine wings struggling against Bummers & Bellingham after getting one-tapped by Imu 😂 (don’t think this forum will be able to survive that 💀 neither does it compute from a story writing perspective in my head but I digress)

Just wait for Yokai form Sommers

 

[Jackteo]

Just wait for Yokai form Sommers

A mythical fiery yokai? A Garuda perhaps?

 

[Rumble]

It’s kinda surprising to me that some people here actually believe that Robin did anything to Sommers… like at all

The same guy who kept talking through the transponder snail while being “attacked” before attaching a rope to stop himself from falling (calmly) and then continuing on with his speech (also insta trapped Robin as soon as he got back up)

Like I know yall hate the Holy Knights but it’s mind boggling that some people read that scene and perceive it as an L. Is it an L that Gunko got hit by Usopp’s shot before counter attacking?

No? Why? Because she didn’t care to stop him or dodge the attack

People just have a harder time understanding characters that act goofy with impunity because they're strong when they're not perceived as good guys.

At the same, edgier characters tend to be overestimated when they're bad guys.

It's a bizarre but consistently observable phenomenon.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

On this discussion of who the wings fight or whether they are adequte or not, personally I'm looking at it from the perspective of what I think the narrative is demanding from them which is to become pillars strong enough to be able to support Luffy in the war he's going to be waging against the world but it seems that the standard which I personally think is required for them to be at is different from some of my other Sanji bros, so the question I'd like to pose to y'all is "what standard do you think the wings need to be at to be able to fulfil their narrative role as Luffy's main support pillars"?

Right now to me personally I think Yonko level is their current floor and each will have to be strong enough to be able to combat something on a level as freaky as DR Xebec 1 v 1 (i.e. this is from the persepetive that they need to be able to beat whatever level of subordinate Imu is able to dish out keep in mind that in addtion to being able to domi reversi a monster like Xebec, Imu is also able to amp up his suborindates with maki meaning that the Gorosei can potentially get amps as well)

Where are y'all at with this?

 

[Jackteo]

"what standard do you think the wings need to be at to be able to fulfil their narrative role as Luffy's main support pillars"?

Well, Zoro's EoS opponent has been settled since the very beginning of the story. Unless Mihawk gets defeated before the war on the WG, which is highly unlikely, his level is extremely close to Zoro's (and consequently Sanji's) ceiling.

Mihawk and Shanks are rivals so I'd say they are about the same level and I can't really imagine Shanks being much stronger than his fellow emperors Kaido and Big Mom. I can see Sanji and Zoro being a bit weaker than those two before the war on the WG starts

Right now they are YC1-ish level characters about to receive a substantial boost, basically on the optimum pace to help Luffy when the time to face the gorosei or HK titanic captains comes

 

[Julius]

Please Oda, bring 2 Gorosei to fight Zoro and Sanji

Sanji was sitting on Killingham's body, bro ripped him in 3 pieces, there is no way blud is going to be challenged by this guy out of sudden

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Well, Zoro's EoS opponent has been settled since the very beginning of the story. Unless Mihawk gets defeated before the war on the WG, which is highly unlikely, his level is extremely close to Zoro's (and consequently Sanji's) ceiling.

Mihawk and Shanks are rivals so I'd say they are about the same level and I can't really imagine Shanks being much stronger than his fellow emperors Kaido and Big Mom. I can see Sanji and Zoro being a bit weaker than those two before the war on the WG starts

Right now they are YC1-ish level characters about to receive a substantial boost, basically on the optimum pace to help Luffy when the time to face the gorosei or HK titanic captains comes

So Yonko/Admiral level ish is your estimate?
I hear you on the Mihawk ting but personally I'd argue that Zoro's ceiling or rather floor is Ryuma and not Mihawk so he's not really bound to Mihawk's level kinda like how Luffy is not bound to Roger.

Also I wouldn't really sleep on Shanks tbh. His gas is incomparable to the rest of the Yonko particulary his Haki gas. Moroever he said to have defeated Loki which is looking a bit mad atm but then again it's Oda's golden boy Shanks.

On your Yonko/Admiral level estimate though, where would you rank Ray and Gaban then? If Zoro and Sanji are going to be in and around Yonko/Admiral level? Coz I'd argue Zoro and Sanji are going to be significantly stronger than those two EoS.

 

[Raiden7]

On this discussion of who the wings fight or whether they are adequte or not, personally I'm looking at it from the perspective of what I think the narrative is demanding from them which is to become pillars strong enough to be able to support Luffy in the war he's going to be waging against the world but it seems that the standard which I personally think is required for them to be at is different from some of my other Sanji bros, so the question I'd like to pose to y'all is "what standard do you think the wings need to be at to be able to fulfil their narrative role as Luffy's main support pillars"?

Right now to me personally I think Yonko level is their current floor and each will have to be strong enough to be able to combat something on a level as freaky as DR Xebec 1 v 1 (i.e. this is from the persepetive that they need to be able to beat whatever level of subordinate Imu is able to dish out keep in mind that in addtion to being able to domi reversi a monster like Xebec, Imu is also able to amp up his suborindates with maki meaning that the Gorosei can potentially get amps as well)

Where are y'all at with this?

Emperor level, I guess. It's the end game, power levels will go brrr