Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Conqueror of love
Since Killingham's ability able to create/manifest a monster that some character feared the most, im pretty sure he will create "Emotionless Sanji/Sanji full Germa mode"
so i guess we might see something like Ichigo vs his hollow version
@RayanOO @Warchief Sanji D Goat @kekaro @PuckTheGreat @Raiden7 @Etemenanki @DarkWitch @Hiragaro @Parker @Jackteo @Yo Tan Wa
so i guess we might see something like Ichigo vs his hollow version
@RayanOO @Warchief Sanji D Goat @kekaro @PuckTheGreat @Raiden7 @Etemenanki @DarkWitch @Hiragaro @Parker @Jackteo @Yo Tan Wa
There’s a lot of talk about the M3 and Loki mastering CoC but what does that even mean?
Luffy, Zoro & Loki for example already know how to coat their body parts or weapons like Kaido etc so it’s surely not that fight? Also don’t think it’s simply a matter of being able to use it efficiently as it’s not like there’s ever been some kind of limit on them using it. So I think it has to be a level even beyond normal coating and reckon Roger & Imu have both given us hints on how to use it, which is ‘質量’ - Mass but where this is going to be interesting is how each characters applies it.
For example we’ve seen that in Roger & Garp’s case their method of increasing mass was simply to increase their CoC output a more generic way that has major downsides as spamming large amounts of Haki drains stamina. It’s a similar concept to what Luffy was doing with armament in G4. This method I think will be the route Oda goes with Zoro as Oda seems to be highlighting the sheer volume of Haki he has (reckon Emma’s ability to draw out large volumes of Haki is going to be related to that in addition to something unique about Zoro himself that allows him to be able to utilize Enma)
Then there’s another route which is what I think Imu is doing via his devil fruit ability. Which is a sort of Devil fruit x Haki unison that results into what we now know as Maki (Imu’s devil fruit 悪魔 - Akuma + 覇気 - Haki. Something characteristic to him hence why I think he says Maki is ‘Mu’s military might’. And I think this is the route Oda’s going to go with Luffy & Loki.
Tbh in Loki’s case the fact that his DF is able to ’increase size’ could potential result in an effect where he’s able to increase his CoC output. Either that or Oda goes the route of lighting increasing mass instead. Tbh on this particular concept I think Oda’s shown us something similar with CoA with Kat’s block mochi for example which he says is a level higher than regular CoA or Linlin being able to drain the life out of you by simply clashing with her CoA.
Now in Sanji’s case I think this method is going to be tied to power of Love, with ‘Love’ serving as his mass. I also think Oda could go a similar DF type route with him with his Flames + CoC or maybe even stack that with PoL enabling him to generate a much stronger flame characteristic to him & akin to something like Amaterasu or Samahdi Fire
what do y’all think? Could create a thread for this but can’t be arsed lol
Luffy, Zoro & Loki for example already know how to coat their body parts or weapons like Kaido etc so it’s surely not that fight? Also don’t think it’s simply a matter of being able to use it efficiently as it’s not like there’s ever been some kind of limit on them using it. So I think it has to be a level even beyond normal coating and reckon Roger & Imu have both given us hints on how to use it, which is ‘質量’ - Mass but where this is going to be interesting is how each characters applies it.
For example we’ve seen that in Roger & Garp’s case their method of increasing mass was simply to increase their CoC output a more generic way that has major downsides as spamming large amounts of Haki drains stamina. It’s a similar concept to what Luffy was doing with armament in G4. This method I think will be the route Oda goes with Zoro as Oda seems to be highlighting the sheer volume of Haki he has (reckon Emma’s ability to draw out large volumes of Haki is going to be related to that in addition to something unique about Zoro himself that allows him to be able to utilize Enma)
Then there’s another route which is what I think Imu is doing via his devil fruit ability. Which is a sort of Devil fruit x Haki unison that results into what we now know as Maki (Imu’s devil fruit 悪魔 - Akuma + 覇気 - Haki. Something characteristic to him hence why I think he says Maki is ‘Mu’s military might’. And I think this is the route Oda’s going to go with Luffy & Loki.
Tbh in Loki’s case the fact that his DF is able to ’increase size’ could potential result in an effect where he’s able to increase his CoC output. Either that or Oda goes the route of lighting increasing mass instead. Tbh on this particular concept I think Oda’s shown us something similar with CoA with Kat’s block mochi for example which he says is a level higher than regular CoA or Linlin being able to drain the life out of you by simply clashing with her CoA.
Now in Sanji’s case I think this method is going to be tied to power of Love, with ‘Love’ serving as his mass. I also think Oda could go a similar DF type route with him with his Flames + CoC or maybe even stack that with PoL enabling him to generate a much stronger flame characteristic to him & akin to something like Amaterasu or Samahdi Fire
what do y’all think? Could create a thread for this but can’t be arsed lol
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Sanjis fire is beyond amaterasu. Its already producing electricity/lightning which is plasma.
Plasma leg sanji will get upgraded to the same level as what happens in the center of a star.
Aka nuclear fission.
But it will be in stages
Lightning is 50,000 degrees F
Blue flames first produce electric ions around 10k degrees
For full air electric ionization youd need 20k degree flames.
Now I dont think he needs to be as hot as star in order to start nuclear fission. But I do think he well end his journey there.
Plasma leg sanji will get upgraded to the same level as what happens in the center of a star.
Aka nuclear fission.
But it will be in stages
Lightning is 50,000 degrees F
Blue flames first produce electric ions around 10k degrees
For full air electric ionization youd need 20k degree flames.
Now I dont think he needs to be as hot as star in order to start nuclear fission. But I do think he well end his journey there.
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I say Amaterasu/Samahdi Fire not necessarily bcoz of how hot it is but the characteristic of it not being able to be put out. Personally I think that’s a much more elegant route than the temp of the flame going up as Oda doesn’t really do a good job depicting that anyways. There was no visual difference with regard to the amount of heat damage Queen took from Ifrit in comparison to Diable. Ifrit just looks like more AP when it is technically much hotter than Diable Jambe.
See where you’re going with the star route but doubt Oda depicts it in the way you’re envisioning in comparison to other very strong flame users. Blue Flames are much hotter than lava for example but with the way Oda’s dumb ass writes its difficult to say which is actually hotter visually btw Sanji’s blue flames & Akainu or Kaido’s lava.
See where you’re going with the star route but doubt Oda depicts it in the way you’re envisioning in comparison to other very strong flame users. Blue Flames are much hotter than lava for example but with the way Oda’s dumb ass writes its difficult to say which is actually hotter visually btw Sanji’s blue flames & Akainu or Kaido’s lava.
I think the next stage for the trio will have CoC as more of a stepping stool and not a weapon.
Sanji will merge it with his passion to create his next Jambe.
Zoro will use it to create his first black blade
And Luffys imo will connect to whatever the “Will of D” is that Imu talked to Cobra about last arc
Sanji will merge it with his passion to create his next Jambe.
Zoro will use it to create his first black blade
And Luffys imo will connect to whatever the “Will of D” is that Imu talked to Cobra about last arc
Then Luffy may use MuKi Gomu Haki combined against Imus MaKi, one is black flame while the other is white flame . Sanjis powers are at the side of Akuma but also love it can be a color like mother flame which may also consist love concept. Zoro is Green it is an underworld death concept so i think he may be green. So it would probably be Luffy white, Sanji purple and Zoro green since i think this ia a concept of soul colour. Since Zoro and Sanji doesn't have something like Gomu DF which is so overwhelming they can only use the abilities they developed, Zoro will probably combine his haki with his soul power while Sanji with his flame which can also be considered some type of soul power at this point.
Why do you guys expect that tho? If you can not put out the flames, then Sanji is gonna one shot everybody that is maybe not a logia and kill everybody he attacks with it. That's just overkill, especialy considering that nobody in the SHC ever kills. I find it hard to imagine Sanji and Zoro killing the HK's even tho they definetely should, they are just to big of a threat. Same was with Kaidou and BM, they had to die, they are just too fucking strong to be left alive and having them a change of mind would be retarded, so Oda threw them into magma.
Sure, you could argue the SH's are gonna be so strong that the HK etc. wouldn't be a threat anymore, but that is just dumb.
Considering how strong Luffy is gonna be, Kaidou and BM wouldn't be a threat either + Zoro and Sanji would be able to handle them eos aswell. Especialy because we didn't know Luffy's ceiling at that time, i mean we knew he would be PK level, but even then, you can't leave them alive they would stil be very dangerous...
Yeah that is what is so annoying about Ifrit and why it felt so underwhelming to me.
First the design change was almost non existent and then there was no visible difference in the heat nor in the AP itself (outside of Beef Burst). If you don't include Beef Burst Ifrit did nothing different than DJ, visualy nor ap-wise.
Sure, you could argue the SH's are gonna be so strong that the HK etc. wouldn't be a threat anymore, but that is just dumb.
Considering how strong Luffy is gonna be, Kaidou and BM wouldn't be a threat either + Zoro and Sanji would be able to handle them eos aswell. Especialy because we didn't know Luffy's ceiling at that time, i mean we knew he would be PK level, but even then, you can't leave them alive they would stil be very dangerous...
Yeah that is what is so annoying about Ifrit and why it felt so underwhelming to me.
First the design change was almost non existent and then there was no visible difference in the heat nor in the AP itself (outside of Beef Burst). If you don't include Beef Burst Ifrit did nothing different than DJ, visualy nor ap-wise.
Hax is Hax for a reason.
So I don’t think it being OP is a good enough reason for him not to have it. However like with every ability there’d be ways to counter or mitigate it be it CoC shields or what not & worst case scenario Oda could have Sanji put it out for opponents he doesn’t want to kill.
If Sanji is going to kill Kiringham, don't think Oda is gonna draw Sanji quite literally kick him to death so undying flames would be a clean way to go about it imo. No matter how much Kiringham regens he will constantly take damage from it till his regen is not able to keep up anymore and he dies from it.
So I don’t think it being OP is a good enough reason for him not to have it. However like with every ability there’d be ways to counter or mitigate it be it CoC shields or what not & worst case scenario Oda could have Sanji put it out for opponents he doesn’t want to kill.
If Sanji is going to kill Kiringham, don't think Oda is gonna draw Sanji quite literally kick him to death so undying flames would be a clean way to go about it imo. No matter how much Kiringham regens he will constantly take damage from it till his regen is not able to keep up anymore and he dies from it.
Oda could not have been more obvious Zoro and Sanji, LIKE DORRY AND BROGY, are locked in a RIVALRY OF EQUALS.
Mind you, SANJI WON THAT CHALLENGE to anyone that paid attention to its terms. He caught the beast with more kilos of meat.
The only undisputed #2 that Zoro has fought is Daz Bones.
Mr 2 got the better of him when they clashed. Though neither showed their strength, everyone seems to only remember Mr 1 didn't use his DF. Nobody seems to remember Mr 2 didn't show off his full strength either. Without Haki, Daz Bones had the advantage, but he wasn't invulnerable or invincible.
Skypiea - Ohm was the strongest of Enel's Four Generals but wasn't Enel's #2 in status or position.
Water 7/Ennies Lobbies - Kaku was #2 on Lucci's team. Jabra was #1 of his own team and obviously stronger than Kaku. Unless you think 1% in base physical strength outweighs a superior DF, years of experience with said DF, and objectively superior Rokushiki techniques.
Thriller Bark - Absalom outranked Ryuma, and he may even have been stronger given the corpse was limited by Brook's shadow and a relatively easy win for Zoro, but I'm not counting either. The relevant threats were Oars, Moria and Kuma to an extent.
Wano - King was recruited as Kaidou's RHM, but he nevertheless had the same rank as Queen, who was asked to join twice, oversaw Kaidou's interests in the sciences, held responsibility over Udon and made an overall much more impressive presence in the material. Jack was clearly a junior to both, but Queen was no junior to King.
Blackbeard Pirates - we'll have to wait and see but Sanji's most likely opponent is Laffitte, who is clearly one of BB's closest allies, if not the closest. Given the impression Laffitte has made off his own merit, I have no reason to doubt his strength.
Zoro learned to cut steel vs Bones and projectiles vs Ohm, and then what else?
King and Queen were both pretty fucking busted. King has his Lunarian defense, flight and fire, but Queen has lasers, missiles, cybernetic enhancements and Germa abilities like thermal projectiles, electrical attacks and invisibility. If anything, Sanji had the more difficult opponent. On paper, Queen is definitely more formidable, and we've not even discussed his plague abilities. Ultimately, King didn’t lose because of Conqueror’s Haki, and Sanji was on his way to winning against Queen prior to Germa.
What you also seem to leave out is that - ASIDE from more dominant wins - Sanji's biggest Ws have come after clear nerfs.
Arlong Park - Kuroobi got free hits in while he was distracted by Zoro and saving Luffy, then Sanji wiped the floor with him.
Alabasta - Mr 2 was skilled but really on in the fight because of his ability to turn into Nami. Sanji was clearly significantly stronger.
Ennes Lobbies - Sanji got nerfed by Kalifa before fighting Jabra and beating his ass relatively easily.
Thriller Bark - literally stabbed through the chest for Nami and still destroyed Absalom.
Wano - Sanji got tortured by Maria and had to deal with Germa awakening interfering.
How the fuck does Zoro begin to compare to any of this?
It's referring A LOT OF THINGS you keep ignoring.
Like the fact Sanji has better 1:1 feats.
Or the fact Sanji COMPLETELY outclasses Zoro in speed, strength, durability, endurance and intelligence.
Don't presume to lecture me on context when you ignore so much of it. Like this:
1 - Zoro had no conscious control of Conqueror's Haki
2 - Zoro used one of his strongest attacks in base
3 - Sanji used an attack in base
4 - the eyebrow wasn't flipped
I FUCKING DARE YOU PEONS TO TRY.
No, that is YOUR NARRATIVE and it has no fucking place in this thread.
You frauds make me SICK.
Mind you, SANJI WON THAT CHALLENGE to anyone that paid attention to its terms. He caught the beast with more kilos of meat.
The only undisputed #2 that Zoro has fought is Daz Bones.
Skypiea - Ohm was the strongest of Enel's Four Generals but wasn't Enel's #2 in status or position.
Water 7/Ennies Lobbies - Kaku was #2 on Lucci's team. Jabra was #1 of his own team and obviously stronger than Kaku. Unless you think 1% in base physical strength outweighs a superior DF, years of experience with said DF, and objectively superior Rokushiki techniques.
Thriller Bark - Absalom outranked Ryuma, and he may even have been stronger given the corpse was limited by Brook's shadow and a relatively easy win for Zoro, but I'm not counting either. The relevant threats were Oars, Moria and Kuma to an extent.
Wano - King was recruited as Kaidou's RHM, but he nevertheless had the same rank as Queen, who was asked to join twice, oversaw Kaidou's interests in the sciences, held responsibility over Udon and made an overall much more impressive presence in the material. Jack was clearly a junior to both, but Queen was no junior to King.
Blackbeard Pirates - we'll have to wait and see but Sanji's most likely opponent is Laffitte, who is clearly one of BB's closest allies, if not the closest. Given the impression Laffitte has made off his own merit, I have no reason to doubt his strength.
Zoro learned to cut steel vs Bones and projectiles vs Ohm, and then what else?
King and Queen were both pretty fucking busted. King has his Lunarian defense, flight and fire, but Queen has lasers, missiles, cybernetic enhancements and Germa abilities like thermal projectiles, electrical attacks and invisibility. If anything, Sanji had the more difficult opponent. On paper, Queen is definitely more formidable, and we've not even discussed his plague abilities. Ultimately, King didn’t lose because of Conqueror’s Haki, and Sanji was on his way to winning against Queen prior to Germa.
What you also seem to leave out is that - ASIDE from more dominant wins - Sanji's biggest Ws have come after clear nerfs.
Arlong Park - Kuroobi got free hits in while he was distracted by Zoro and saving Luffy, then Sanji wiped the floor with him.
How the fuck does Zoro begin to compare to any of this?
It's referring A LOT OF THINGS you keep ignoring.
Like the fact Sanji has better 1:1 feats.
Or the fact Sanji COMPLETELY outclasses Zoro in speed, strength, durability, endurance and intelligence.
Don't presume to lecture me on context when you ignore so much of it. Like this:
1 - Zoro had no conscious control of Conqueror's Haki
2 - Zoro used one of his strongest attacks in base
3 - Sanji used an attack in base
4 - the eyebrow wasn't flipped
I FUCKING DARE YOU PEONS TO TRY.
No, that is YOUR NARRATIVE and it has no fucking place in this thread.
You frauds make me SICK.
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OK i just wrote how ridiculous this Larry guy is, but imma leave it out, if you wanna see it for yourself watch their discussion, but beware...
just to give you a taste of his mind, he tried to make Zoro getting boggered by Imu a feat somehow and his arguments how it makes no sense for Sanji to have CoC are just as bad as from some top clowns on this forum - the guy is so delusional
But man the super chat was cooking this guy at the end was funny af lmao
But Seb is appearently a Sanji fan ( even tho they mentioned he had to redo some of his rankings now because Sanji is getting CoC, like Marco > Sanji and some others which is crazy) but anyway, he made a good analysis, maybe missing some smal things, but pretty good overall.
Around 2:59:20 is where it starts
Edit:
Gonna write later on how Sanji gonna unlock his CoC and using AdvCoC where it actualy makes sense. So stay tuned.
just to give you a taste of his mind, he tried to make Zoro getting boggered by Imu a feat somehow and his arguments how it makes no sense for Sanji to have CoC are just as bad as from some top clowns on this forum - the guy is so delusional
But man the super chat was cooking this guy at the end was funny af lmao
But Seb is appearently a Sanji fan ( even tho they mentioned he had to redo some of his rankings now because Sanji is getting CoC, like Marco > Sanji and some others which is crazy) but anyway, he made a good analysis, maybe missing some smal things, but pretty good overall.
Around 2:59:20 is where it starts
Edit:
Gonna write later on how Sanji gonna unlock his CoC and using AdvCoC where it actualy makes sense. So stay tuned.
What if instead of raw heat or the flames not going out, what makes Sanjis next flames special is that they have physical mass? We know Haki Mass exists, if Sanji can imbue his flames with physical CoC mass he could use them offensively (more mass equals more impact) and defensively (mass would turn the flames into an armor on his legs)
I do agree this isn’t necessarily as Hax or as strong as indistinguishable flames. But a fiery mass would work as a nice combo of his martial arts, and allow him to actually create a pretty large shield to protect the others with
I do agree this isn’t necessarily as Hax or as strong as indistinguishable flames. But a fiery mass would work as a nice combo of his martial arts, and allow him to actually create a pretty large shield to protect the others with
Listen up you fools! I know how Sanji is gonna go from 0 to AdvCoC without having a helping tool and how such a jump would be believable.
Sanji is the first character that knows he has CoC without having awakened it yet and who is gonna deliberately try to awaken it.
Now, obviously Sanji is not gonna go the Luffy route and has like Zoro to skip a few steps.
Unlike Zoro, Sanji doesn't have a tool like Enma that is gonna help him unlock it and use it, but that is there imo the answer lies.
Sanji is gonna do, what Enma did with Zoro, himself.
Enma was trying to take more Haki from Zoro than he wanted, so he was always fighting back so it doesn't suck him dry (Pause). Until he stopped resisting and allowed Enma to take as much as it wanted, resulting in Enma pulling out his CoC (Pause). So Enma was pulling out so much Haki (CoC included) that it started covering Zoro's swords in CoC Haki = AdvCoC.
I think Sanji is gonna do something similiar. Since he is CoC Blocking himself (Pause), he has to release this block and let his CoC out (Pause). When he is finaly able to get rid of his blockade and release his CoC, since he can't controll it yet or atleast he shouldn't be able to, he will release a huge amount, if not all of it at once.
And similiar to how Enma was covering Zoro's swords with CoC, Sanji would cover his whole body with CoC because of the amount he is releasing. Ultimately using AdvCoC. It might even last for only one attack, because he is releasing too much.
Zoro also said that if the fight doesn't end quick Enma would kill him, because Enma was taking too much Haki. Since he was stil fighting for some time, Enma wasn't taking all of his Haki at once, but alot.
But Sanji might go to the extreme and empty his tank in one go, resulting in being able to use only 1 attack, before getting completely exhausted.
But here would be another interesting thing, if he would use all of his Haki at once, he would do the ''Mass'' thing that Roger and Garp did, where they put all of their remaining Haki into one attack to kill Rocks.
And that might lead to Sanji actualy killing KH, because he would use so much Haki/Mass that it would obliterate KH. Maybe even if he didn't wanted to, it just would be too much Power.
Or the Germa thing might also kick in and take his emotions, so he just goes for the kill anyway
I think that would be the only way for me to say that this jump would be believable. Because this is a very unique situation that we have never seen before, where somebody deliberately tries to use CoC when not awakened yet.
And by him trying to use it, he would burst the ''Valve'' and releasing all of his CoC, which usualy doesn't happen by an emotional CoC burst since they don't even know what they did nor tried to release it - they don't try to force it out.
This way Sanji would be able to use AdvCoC against KH, but in an ineffective way since he would completely deplete it. The rest would come down to him learning to controll the output, which would come with time.
Sanji is the first character that knows he has CoC without having awakened it yet and who is gonna deliberately try to awaken it.
Now, obviously Sanji is not gonna go the Luffy route and has like Zoro to skip a few steps.
Unlike Zoro, Sanji doesn't have a tool like Enma that is gonna help him unlock it and use it, but that is there imo the answer lies.
Sanji is gonna do, what Enma did with Zoro, himself.
Enma was trying to take more Haki from Zoro than he wanted, so he was always fighting back so it doesn't suck him dry (Pause). Until he stopped resisting and allowed Enma to take as much as it wanted, resulting in Enma pulling out his CoC (Pause). So Enma was pulling out so much Haki (CoC included) that it started covering Zoro's swords in CoC Haki = AdvCoC.
I think Sanji is gonna do something similiar. Since he is CoC Blocking himself (Pause), he has to release this block and let his CoC out (Pause). When he is finaly able to get rid of his blockade and release his CoC, since he can't controll it yet or atleast he shouldn't be able to, he will release a huge amount, if not all of it at once.
And similiar to how Enma was covering Zoro's swords with CoC, Sanji would cover his whole body with CoC because of the amount he is releasing. Ultimately using AdvCoC. It might even last for only one attack, because he is releasing too much.
Zoro also said that if the fight doesn't end quick Enma would kill him, because Enma was taking too much Haki. Since he was stil fighting for some time, Enma wasn't taking all of his Haki at once, but alot.
But Sanji might go to the extreme and empty his tank in one go, resulting in being able to use only 1 attack, before getting completely exhausted.
But here would be another interesting thing, if he would use all of his Haki at once, he would do the ''Mass'' thing that Roger and Garp did, where they put all of their remaining Haki into one attack to kill Rocks.
And that might lead to Sanji actualy killing KH, because he would use so much Haki/Mass that it would obliterate KH. Maybe even if he didn't wanted to, it just would be too much Power.
Or the Germa thing might also kick in and take his emotions, so he just goes for the kill anyway
I think that would be the only way for me to say that this jump would be believable. Because this is a very unique situation that we have never seen before, where somebody deliberately tries to use CoC when not awakened yet.
And by him trying to use it, he would burst the ''Valve'' and releasing all of his CoC, which usualy doesn't happen by an emotional CoC burst since they don't even know what they did nor tried to release it - they don't try to force it out.
This way Sanji would be able to use AdvCoC against KH, but in an ineffective way since he would completely deplete it. The rest would come down to him learning to controll the output, which would come with time.
So basically a CoC shield of sorts that will serve as gauntlets but instead in the form of flames akin to Imu’s Maki?🤔 hmmm…that’s one way to go about it for more AP & will be a good way to utilize it against the really durable types like Kaido or Linlin but feels a bit limited & I feel like he’d hit a wall as soon as he meets someone with stronger CoC.
Personally I prefer the Hax route.
Even against someone much stronger than him undying flames could work like a bleed effect of sorts to wear the opponent down and can go up a level higher by simply increasing heat of the flames.
I do think you might be onto something with this though coz Oda had Sanji utilize PoL both offensively & defensively on Egghead ^^
Personally I prefer the Hax route.
Even against someone much stronger than him undying flames could work like a bleed effect of sorts to wear the opponent down and can go up a level higher by simply increasing heat of the flames.
I do think you might be onto something with this though coz Oda had Sanji utilize PoL both offensively & defensively on Egghead ^^